I want to build a large capturing system that doesn't use pressure but works very similar. Basically it would be a heating chamber with a fan that would blow vapor into a separate chamber similar to a vapor condenser that would rapidly cool the vapor with peltier generators or circulating cooling liquid- kinda of like linking fingers that the vapor has to travel past while being cooled onto the heat sinks/fingers. I originally was thinking about using steam but after some small scale tests I believe hot air would result in much better product with less if not any purging time. I have a few sketch ups that Im willing to share if anyone wants to contribute to the project. I have watched a handful of tests using tshirt presses but most of them were unfruitful- I really believe we just need to move the vapor to a controlled collection system.
Rosin Technique....Easy DIY Solventless
- Thread starter darkrom
- Start date
Bouldorado
Well-Known Member
@alphabetatoad
That idea's been tossed around FC a couple times now...I think the consensus has always been that it's not an efficient or practical method of extraction, especially if the product is intended for dabbing. Since THC vaporizes at 314°, the material would need to be heated to at least that level for the phase change to occur.
With rosin tech, the heat is transferred directly via conduction (metal plates are excellent conductors). On the other hand, vaporization uses convection, hot air, which is far less effective a conductor than a high-pressure metal sandwich. You'd need an extremely powerful fan to transfer the same amount of heat in the same time a heat press would. Otherwise the material is exposed to heat longer, ultimately degrading the extract. Would love to hear if you had any success with your trials (perhaps start a new thread so this one isn't derailed).
That idea's been tossed around FC a couple times now...I think the consensus has always been that it's not an efficient or practical method of extraction, especially if the product is intended for dabbing. Since THC vaporizes at 314°, the material would need to be heated to at least that level for the phase change to occur.
With rosin tech, the heat is transferred directly via conduction (metal plates are excellent conductors). On the other hand, vaporization uses convection, hot air, which is far less effective a conductor than a high-pressure metal sandwich. You'd need an extremely powerful fan to transfer the same amount of heat in the same time a heat press would. Otherwise the material is exposed to heat longer, ultimately degrading the extract. Would love to hear if you had any success with your trials (perhaps start a new thread so this one isn't derailed).
Jared
Cannabis Enthusiast
I think this is essentially how "the clear" is made.
Quetzalcoatl
DEADY GUERRERO/DIRT COBAIN/GEORGE KUSH
Fractional distillation, yeah. Also how they pull terpenes from cannabis, if any of you guys have seen those terpene vials on some growers' social media pages.
Rosin Tutorial from the Portland Mercury
Neceros
Well-Known Member
I gotta take some pics next time I press some but I find that if I use a clothes iron with the parchment on top of a thick cutting board, let the iron rest on the bud without squishing it for a second, then press slowly and once I'm down I damn near sit on the iron I press so hard I get so much more rosin than with a hair straightener. You can press an average bud a few times this way. I find it better to use lower temps and slower multiple presses but thats just what works for me.
@alphabetatoad
That idea's been tossed around FC a couple times now...I think the consensus has always been that it's not an efficient or practical method of extraction, especially if the product is intended for dabbing. Since THC vaporizes at 314°, the material would need to be heated to at least that level for the phase change to occur.
With rosin tech, the heat is transferred directly via conduction (metal plates are excellent conductors). On the other hand, vaporization uses convection, hot air, which is far less effective a conductor than a high-pressure metal sandwich. You'd need an extremely powerful fan to transfer the same amount of heat in the same time a heat press would. Otherwise the material is exposed to heat longer, ultimately degrading the extract. Would love to hear if you had any success with your trials (perhaps start a new thread so this one isn't derailed).
Vaporization happens regardless of the heating type conduction or convection, vaporization is already how rosin tech works I believe. Ill make this a new topic once my second prototype is finished.
I don't believe that most hair straighteners use metal plates- I could be wrong but I believe they are mostly ceramic with a titanium coils inside. I also think that why squeezing so hard is important because it helps push the vapours away from the herbal mass to resolidify on the parchment paper. I already tried the tshirt press with very little results, if I place the same measurement of flower material in my volcano and then run that through a vapour collector I get at least 140+% more collected concentrate- the problem becomes clearing it out of the vapour collector. I currently have to use everclear to remove it completely from the vapour collector- this is why Im designing a collector that can be taken apart and scrapped clean. I was even going to incorporate the idea of collecting directly on parchment rather then a metal surface so it just goes straight into the freezer for easy collection. If anyone has any suggestions or experience please let me know- thanks
Been Vapin
Fringe Class
Run a mechanic wire with a washer like thing at the end to pull through condenser.
Inspired by a paintball gun squeegee.
Interesting ideas. Have you seen foundation extracts work yet?
https://instagram.com/p/2zp6a0oq2P/?taken-by=foundation_extracts?
Nice visual of low temps/high pressures extraction.
Interesting instagram link, Cheers- Im going to have to contact them and see what there yields are like because you can buy a hydraulic hot foiling machine that will do exactly the same thing for fairly inexpensive and might be worth experimenting with. I wouldn't be surprised if thats what was being used in those videos.
lots to think about
tepictoton
Well-Known Member
Looking good, yet without knowing the starting material, well what do we know then I wonder.
Secondly that looks a bit darker then I like to see...
Still following this very closely and am currently in the market for a nice hair thingy lol
Secondly that looks a bit darker then I like to see...
Still following this very closely and am currently in the market for a nice hair thingy lol
lower temps seem to make lighter/clear rosin for sure!
https://instagram.com/p/4CcXEsoqxU/?taken-by=foundation_extracts
I ordered a bunch of 90u tea bags last week that should be here soon to try in my press.
Bouldorado
Well-Known Member
@alphabetatoad
the hair irons I've taken apart (2 revlons and a remington) all have the same basic construction...plates are metallic and non-magnetic (I'm guessing an aluminum alloy) and have some kind of coating. the heating elements seem to be just a standard strip heater (no Ti here)-- on the cheaper revlon it was just a tiny piece of ceramic sandwiched between 2 leads.
here's what the $15 revlon looks like (this one is adjustable, so one plate has a thermocouple attached)
they market it as "triple baked tourmaline ceramic plates", however I've never seen a "ceramic" as soft and malleable as this-- notice the crimp marks on the corners...
the hair irons I've taken apart (2 revlons and a remington) all have the same basic construction...plates are metallic and non-magnetic (I'm guessing an aluminum alloy) and have some kind of coating. the heating elements seem to be just a standard strip heater (no Ti here)-- on the cheaper revlon it was just a tiny piece of ceramic sandwiched between 2 leads.
here's what the $15 revlon looks like (this one is adjustable, so one plate has a thermocouple attached)
they market it as "triple baked tourmaline ceramic plates", however I've never seen a "ceramic" as soft and malleable as this-- notice the crimp marks on the corners...
GuyLeDuche
^ "Eat a bag of Dick's!"
@alphabetatoad
the hair irons I've taken apart (2 revlons and a remington) all have the same basic construction...plates are metallic and non-magnetic (I'm guessing an aluminum alloy) and have some kind of coating. the heating elements seem to be just a standard strip heater (no Ti here)-- on the cheaper revlon it was just a tiny piece of ceramic sandwiched between 2 leads.
here's what the $15 revlon looks like (this one is adjustable, so one plate has a thermocouple attached)
they market it as "triple baked tourmaline ceramic plates", however I've never seen a "ceramic" as soft and malleable as this-- notice the crimp marks on the corners...
Hey this looks like the same one I use (and mine's about in the same condition lol), just curious if you have found a better one to suggest as an upgrade? Debating a 2" just for the ability to squeeze bigger nugs. I feel like about .25g in a 1" is max, it usually squishes right out to the edge and is paper thin. I'd love to know other people's current thoughts if any new knowledge has been gained. I've had a bit of a setback, the last few strains I picked up were terrible yielders, including some award winning top shelf from a well known local grower (TJ's Organics). I'd love to know any wisdom about high yield strains, or even what to look for when re-upping. The TJ's was some amazing Raspberry Kush that looked phenomenal under the magnifier, but only put out about 12-13%. Not sad about vaping the chips mind you
, but low yields always hurt a little....
herbivore21
Well-Known Member
Yeah boy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ok, so the small one is the cheaper press, which will be available soon - a simpler device with less stuff to break according to the man who designed it. This one does not use hydraulics or pneumatics, but these will be used with larger models in the near future.
Excited!
These are all heat presses for the print industry- I have the top small one- or at least something that looks identical minus the sticker and it's used for sleeves and breast logo iron ons. These machines could be good but I don't believe they produce enough pressure at least in my test- as far as breaking the bank you can buy a 6 ton for $200 + compressor air tank $139
http://www.princessauto.com/en/deta...atic-hydraulic-a-frame-shop-press/A-p8604563e
http://www.princessauto.com/en/deta...on-200-psi-pancake-air-compressor/A-p8580532e
as far as heat- heating a plate with a electric burner thats laid on the parchment wouldn't be too difficult.
I am intrigued about rosin and will be picking up a pneumatic press shortly.
http://www.princessauto.com/en/deta...atic-hydraulic-a-frame-shop-press/A-p8604563e
http://www.princessauto.com/en/deta...on-200-psi-pancake-air-compressor/A-p8580532e
as far as heat- heating a plate with a electric burner thats laid on the parchment wouldn't be too difficult.
I am intrigued about rosin and will be picking up a pneumatic press shortly.
Yeah boy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ok, so the small one is the cheaper press, which will be available soon - a simpler device with less stuff to break according to the man who designed it. This one does not use hydraulics or pneumatics, but these will be used with larger models in the near future.
Excited!
herbivore21
Well-Known Member
Looking identical and being identical are two very different things my friend
Does your press use silicone carbide as the plate material (like the D-nail presses)? Are the temps of plates independently controlled (like the D-nail press)? Obviously, different materials and design can make something that looks the same function very differently.
We should expect that all rosin presses are gonna look similar to existing tshirt presses and similar devices - after all; just how different do we expect something that squashes buds between two hot plates to look? lol
Regardless of course, the proof will be in the pudding
We'll find out in good time whether these presses benefit the rosin squashers among us!Interested to hear about your results with pneumatic presses. I will be getting back into rosin as soon as it is possible to reliably produce reasonable quantities for my medical needs without overheating/degrading the resin (squashing out a nug at a time is not something I have time for lol). I am gonna wait for something purpose made that gets this process just right for my needs before I move over into the solventless realm.
EDIT: Btw, the larger presses will only be available in a pneumatic/hydraulic/etc variant, since effective manual pressure using the kind of mechanism seen on the small press was apparently just not effective for bigger plates, which required much more pressure to compensate.
Last edited:
I still believe that these are just chinese heat presses and yes you can buy a t-shirt press with duel temperature controllers that control the heat on both plates, I know that some of the shirt presses come with a silicone coating "not silicon carbide". If I really wanted silica I would just buy the plates myself:
http://www.alibaba.com/product-deta...0159289208.html?spm=a2700.7724857.35.1.13AOmS
cheap option
If I was looking for quality I would probably contact
http://www.morgantechnicalceramics.com
I have talked to morgan and they are a good company, will probably order some of those silica plates to experiment with but Im still not full convinced I need them yet.
Im trying to design a metal dye for the press that has a receiver specifically designed for optimal rosin release. I will post pictures later this week.
http://www.alibaba.com/product-deta...0159289208.html?spm=a2700.7724857.35.1.13AOmS
cheap option
If I was looking for quality I would probably contact
http://www.morgantechnicalceramics.com
I have talked to morgan and they are a good company, will probably order some of those silica plates to experiment with but Im still not full convinced I need them yet.
Im trying to design a metal dye for the press that has a receiver specifically designed for optimal rosin release. I will post pictures later this week.
herbivore21
Well-Known Member
Silicon, silica and silicon carbide are all different materials man. A silicon coating on the heat plates is absolutely nothing like a silicon carbide heat plate
Of course, it would be possible to get an existing cheap Chinese press and gerry rig some silicon carbide plates onto it. However, I really doubt that D-nail would just be doing this. Look at the pics I posted, there is no visible original metal heater plate underneath the SiC plates to indicate that they were just tacked onto an existing Chinese press.
Still, I'll endeavor to find out from them so we can know for sure what we are dealing with.
Interested to see how you go with custom anodizing dyes too brother
Bouldorado
Well-Known Member
@GuyLeDuche
in terms of temperature control, this revlon is the best one I bought (reads ~240° with an IR gun after 10 min on the lowest setting). I'm just pulling the strip heaters to use on my arbor press so Idk how well the hair irons will work by themselves.
If you want a recommendation though, I'd see if Revlon makes a larger 1.5"+ iron and pick up a clamp or something to increase the pressure
in terms of temperature control, this revlon is the best one I bought (reads ~240° with an IR gun after 10 min on the lowest setting). I'm just pulling the strip heaters to use on my arbor press so Idk how well the hair irons will work by themselves.
If you want a recommendation though, I'd see if Revlon makes a larger 1.5"+ iron and pick up a clamp or something to increase the pressure
Silicon, silica and silicon carbide are all different materials man. A silicon coating on the heat plates is absolutely nothing like a silicon carbide heat plate
Of course, it would be possible to get an existing cheap Chinese press and gerry rig some silicon carbide plates onto it. However, I really doubt that D-nail would just be doing this. Look at the pics I posted, there is no visible original metal heater plate underneath the SiC plates to indicate that they were just tacked onto an existing Chinese press.
Still, I'll endeavor to find out from them so we can know for sure what we are dealing with.
Interested to see how you go with custom anodizing dyes too brother
You originally said silicone carbide. If you want to learn more about silica and silicon carbide I would recommend you read the silicon carbide chapter in Solid State and Materials Sciences volume 33. This might help end the confusion as to why I refer to silicon carbide as silica.
Just out of curiosity why do you think they're using silicon carbide? what is the difference between pressing with stainless steel or silicon carbide?
I have experimented with two clothing presses and a manual hot foiling machine and there simply is not enough pressure to get good yields in my opinion. Also I found the thermostat in the shirt presses to be finicky and not accurate. Most of those presses common operating range is 300-450 degrees and is nowhere near precise or in a practical range.
As far as attaching plates to presses, this is common practice in the printing industry and some machines have dye rails specifically for adding your own dyes/plates.
The dye and reciever Im designing looks like a upside down v any machinist in the house? I could use a tip or two.
also couldn't a vacuum be used instead of pressing it? I mean if pressing it under heat is able to move the liquid rosin why couldn't a vacuum with the similar pressures? just an idea- lol too many ideas