Rosin Technique....Easy DIY Solventless

[BoogerMan]

Great stuff, thanks @BoogerMan ! The whole cost assessment comparison of your vice vs h-press is very much appreciated.

I have a pretty stupid question now though. Consider that I am shop-stupid... I was of the impression the h-press needed to also be mounted to a workbench. So far, my major hurdle for investing in a better set up in the lack of proper space to set up a workbench. I'm also not thrilled on investing a couple hundred just in the bench, but to my point...

Does the H-Press not need a workbench? You seem to imply that without a bench, each setup could be cost comparable but I assumed both required it. I sort of read your phrasing to imply it does not.



A small thought on this... As at least one other person mentioned, PG has some properties associated with it that would be seen by many at first glance to be a downside. IIRC, it's carcinogenic at dab temps. PLEASE correct me if I am wrong here, but it's one of the chief reasons I've heard to never dab any of the fluid in a cart, whether THC or nic based.

The other thing to consider might best be illustrated with an example. We do a lot of residual solvent testing at the lab. We rate the itemized results in units of PPM (parts-per-millionth). Generally speaking, it is VERY difficult to remove solvent below our equipment sensitivity thresholds and presents a challenge for many to remain within the state regulated limits. That is to say, much of the product presumed to be "properly purged" by customers still shows PPM above state limits of butane, for example.

My point being, IMO (I'm not a scientist) the likelihood that absolutely 0 additive in the flower makes it to the rosin is highly unlikely. If you have heavy metals or pesticides in your flower, it generally finds its way to your concentrate for solvent-based extractions. Maybe pressing is different, but you're literally pressing the PG into the flower and into the rosin so I am thinking it will remain in the rosin. I should ask if we test for PG... it's a bit obscure as a tested solvent for our purposes at the lab, but I know we do have some rather obscure solvents tested for already...

If there is ANY PG transferred, and if it is known carcinogenic at the temps it would be subjected to, that is a serious negative of course.

On the other hand, many crazy things have been attempted in the name of science. For example, crushing flower with a hair straightener... lol.

Thinking outside the box is good. Those were just some initial thoughts.

Edit: I almost forgot another point... IMO, one of the best advantages rosin extraction has going for it is your raffinate, aka left over extracted plant material, can be re-purposed after extraction. By using PG or another additive, you are surely negating this. On the other hand, if you are seeing large added yields of quality output, that could outweigh the inability to reuse the raffinate post-extraction. Just another thing to consider.

Hey man! Yeah you definitely don't need a work bench for the H press. They say the shorter model (like I have) is a work bench model because you CAN put it on a work bench so you don't have to sit/bend down to use it. The other model is the "floor" model which is taller so you can have it on the floor and not have to sit/bend over to use it. I chose the smaller one just because I wanted to keep it as small as possible (I don't mind sitting on the floor when I make my rosin lol). If you look at my setup, I just have it on a piece of 1" thick plywood on my carpet floor in my living room haha

I'm actually thinking about selling this H press and getting the 20 ton PotterUSA jewelry press since it is about half the size as my H press! However the PotterUSA press setup will be about $1,000 or more if I want a jack that has a pressure gauge installed. I'm holding off until we get a better alternative to parchment and until I can afford some SS plates that will withstand more pressure (compared to CuNi).

Does anyone have any experience with aluminum alloy 6061-T6511? I found a place online that will cut me some 5x2.5x1 plates for $22 each. I figure I can put 2 soldering irons in each plate and jb weld a collar to the top plate.

I don't know how to read the spec sheet on that particular alloy but I saw nothing less than 30,000 psi listed.

Hey welcome to the forum! Love the user name! C&C rock! Saw them live a couple years ago

Can you post a link to where you found these aluminum plates?

I don't have any experience with aluminum alloy but I'm sure interested now!

On another note...

@ixtapa the freezer didn't work to take out the moisture. I left the two nugs in the freezer for 36 hours, took them out and let them get back to room temp, then put them in a new jar with a humidity meter. The two buds were still at 64%. Same as when they went into the freezer.

So I'll leave them out tonight to dry at room temp then test the humidity tomorrow. I would like to get it down to about 40% which is the humidity of my house right now. Once they are at 40% I'll moisten them up back to 60%+ with some H2O and PG then I can finally squish them!

If PG some how works wayyyy better than H2O, I have a couple local labs that test concentrates for patients so I could take the PG rosin there and see if they can tell me the PPM of the PG.

 

[Delirium_trigger]

Hey welcome to the forum! Love the user name! C&C rock! Saw them live a couple years ago

Can you post a link to where you found these aluminum plates?

I don't have any experience with aluminum alloy but I'm sure interested now!

Thanks for the welcome. Right on about C&C, I got to meet the guys about a week ago.

Here's the link for the site.
http://www.cut2sizemetals.com/aluminum/rectangular-bar/abr/

Here's the data sheet I was looking at.
http://asm.matweb.com/search/SpecificMaterial.asp?bassnum=MA6061t6

 

[ixtapa]

@ixtapa the freezer didn't work to take out the moisture. I left the two nugs in the freezer for 36 hours, took them out and let them get back to room temp, then put them in a new jar with a humidity meter. The two buds were still at 64%. Same as when they went into the freezer.

So I'll leave them out tonight to dry at room temp then test the humidity tomorrow. I would like to get it down to about 40% which is the humidity of my house right now. Once they are at 40% I'll moisten them up back to 60%+ with some H2O and PG then I can finally squish them!

If PG some how works wayyyy better than H2O, I have a couple local labs that test concentrates for patients so I could take the PG rosin there and see if they can tell me the PPM of the PG

Sounds like a great plan amigo. If you remember, try to weigh them both right before you moisten them up, then again after. Subtracting those numbers should be pretty close to how much liquid gets put into the system, which might be handy to know later.

 

[CrazyDiamond]

@BoogerMan Bro, chill on the pressure. You DON'T need 20 tons of pressure. Ya I don't have pics up, but my yields are better with rosin than qwiso (and my qwiso yields were damn good and there are pics on here of it). I only have the 4.5 inch, around $30, Irwin vise from Lowe's and the @Joel W. OG cuni plates with the cheap ass adjustable soldering irons he recommended. I thought about more of a setup but I gotta tell ya, what I have works awesome and I feel zero need to go any bigger. Just trying to save you some duckets brother.

 

[killick]

So I *finally* bought a hair straightener today. There are a lot of choices, including one that adds a 'steam shot' function. I didn't get it, but did consider it for a few minutes. 'What is that tall skinhead doing with hair products?'...

 

[Copacetic]

@BoogerMan, I wouldn't be comfortable dabbing product that has/had PG, VG or PEG init myself, but I think that your efforts to find out how it affects yield deserve applause so thank you (especially as we'll all be benefiting from your financial investment!).
I'm glad that you have lab access though, as I definitely would be very wary with these additives.

The limonene suggested above would something I'd be more comfortable myself.

Are there other safely dabbable liquids which might serve as 're-hydrators?
Hemp oil?
Hemp seed oil?
Could hops be pressed, and the resulting oil be used?

I look forward to the results of your PG experiment

 

[GuyLeDuche]

I just wanted to throw this out for the fellow low-tech/low-buck players in the rosin game. I'm really happy with this tiny desk vise (is that a thing?)

http://www.harborfreight.com/4-inch-jaw-capacity-drill-press-vise-30999.html

You can clearly see the handle is shit, I bent mine first day lol, but a 1" iron fits in it perfectly unmodified. Of course it won't stay unmodified for long
I'm sure there are better ones with sturdier parts, but this baby actually fits in a desk drawer when not in use. Great for people with limited space or no bench to mount a bigger one.
I'm super impressed with all the tech going on here, I don't see this kind of innovation elsewhere. Other forums have people bragging about their hot new t-shirt press, gonna change the game

 

[farscaper]

I just wanted to throw this out for the fellow low-tech/low-buck players in the rosin game. I'm really happy with this tiny desk vise (is that a thing?)

http://www.harborfreight.com/4-inch-jaw-capacity-drill-press-vise-30999.html

You can clearly see the handle is shit, I bent mine first day lol, but a 1" iron fits in it perfectly unmodified. Of course it won't stay unmodified for long
I'm sure there are better ones with sturdier parts, but this baby actually fits in a desk drawer when not in use. Great for people with limited space or no bench to mount a bigger one.
I'm super impressed with all the tech going on here, I don't see this kind of innovation elsewhere. Other forums have people bragging about their hot new t-shirt press, gonna change the game

man tshirt presses were the thing in the spring of 15. that shits all played out!

for rehydration I suggest h20. clean distilled or at least reverse osmosis water.... minimize the other minerals and contaminants by using clean water.

About the only solvent I would be interested in seeing used is vg. and thats only because it would be neat to combine vg and rosin since thats near impossible since vg cant really hold more than 33% is own volume as a solvent. it would make a great cloud juice with heady effects. peg is going to combine with the rosin and just be an ejuice basically. peg is the main component for most of the magic solutions to make concentrate into ejuice.
pg will probably do a little better than vg but will not combine as well as the peg.

 

[always420]

high guys and girls!i am new to the rosin game and i was wondering,what should be the best degree using a hair straightener?

 

[GuyLeDuche]

Maybe try to start around 230-240f? Hotter takes less squeeze but gives darker, gooey oil. Not as tasty. Just my 2 dinars

 

[ixtapa]

@BoogerMan, I wouldn't be comfortable dabbing product that has/had PG, VG or PEG init myself, but I think that your efforts to find out how it affects yield deserve applause so thank you (especially as we'll all be benefiting from your financial investment!).
I'm glad that you have lab access though, as I definitely would be very wary with these additives.

The limonene suggested above would something I'd be more comfortable myself.

Are there other safely dabbable liquids which might serve as 're-hydrators?
Hemp oil?
Hemp seed oil?
Could hops be pressed, and the resulting oil be used?

I look forward to the results of your PG experiment

Any of these oils would work great in terms of heat transfer. Great idea! Plus the whole "like dissolves like" thing would seem to work in our favor. The downside is virtually no chance of removing this oil from the final product unless its density is significantly different than rosin oil.

But I'm not sure that's even a big deal - we are not talking about soaking here, remember too much moisture is a bad thing for heat transfer. Dry out the bud, replace the lost H2O with something else, and test. Imagine all the moisture contained in a nug. Now cut that in half. Ideally that is about how much oil/PG/whatever will be introduced, and to my way of thinking, is a pretty small amount. And of that, a large percentage will remain behind in the puck.

I know nothing about limonene, sorry.

 

[BoogerMan]

@BoogerMan Bro, chill on the pressure. You DON'T need 20 tons of pressure. Ya I don't have pics up, but my yields are better with rosin than qwiso (and my qwiso yields were damn good and there are pics on here of it). I only have the 4.5 inch, around $30, Irwin vise from Lowe's and the @Joel W. OG cuni plates with the cheap ass adjustable soldering irons he recommended. I thought about more of a setup but I gotta tell ya, what I have works awesome and I feel zero need to go any bigger. Just trying to save you some duckets brother.

Lol I know I don't need 20 tons (and if I had a 20 ton press I would only use 10 tons total) but I want more pressure to allow for lower temps, tastier oil, and maybe even eliminate having to do a second press yet obtain the same yield

 

[Copacetic]

Great stuff, thanks @BoogerMan
We do a lot of residual solvent testing at the lab.......
....... (I'm not a scientist)........
......... I should ask if we test for PG... it's a bit obscure as a tested solvent for our purposes at the lab, but I know we do have some rather obscure solvents tested for already...

Sorry for butchering your post Epic (cellphone, please forgive me)
But I'd like to ask if yourself or anyone else from a lab is likely to offer their opinion or observed results (despite you not being a scientist) of the safety (or otherwise) of non-psychoactive substances which we might consider adding to our presses/concentrates for pressing, flavouring or just diluting?

I think everyone would be interested in proper info on safe yield enhancers.
And a small number like myself would just like to dilute concentrate ('coz we're lightweight users who would still like to blow clouds and/or titrate our doses in a more gradual way).

I have some non psychoactive dabbing pastes, but they taste foul, and are too thick to help with extraction, so I'd really love to read opinions on the subject.....? (especially hemp oils)

 

[nathan7]

"Non-porous and extremely durable titanium is naturally non-stick!"

I'm excited to try Ti foil in place of parchment.

 

[EpicNameGuy]

Sorry for butchering your post Epic (cellphone, please forgive me)
But I'd like to ask if yourself or anyone else from a lab is likely to offer their opinion or observed results (despite you not being a scientist) of the safety (or otherwise) of non-psychoactive substances which we might consider adding to our presses/concentrates for pressing, flavouring or just diluting?

I think everyone would be interested in proper info on safe yield enhancers.
And a small number like myself would just like to dilute concentrate ('coz we're lightweight users who would still like to blow clouds and/or titrate our doses in a more gradual way).

I have some non psychoactive dabbing pastes, but they taste foul, and are too thick to help with extraction, so I'd really love to read opinions on the subject.....? (especially hemp oils)

Haha, no worries @Copacetic it was too long anyways.

I'm not a spokesperson for the lab, so I just want to be clear on that. I'm not authorized to speak on behalf of the business.

That said... as a business, we are really trying to maintain our image in the medical space vs adult-rec. We are also slammed so we have to be selective of which research projects we take on.

We generally deal with growers, dispensaries and other established bodies of research, but of course we do have patient and caregiver customers. We are bound by state and federal law as to whom we can deal with and under what context. If you are a hemp or CBD consumer, the lab can do business with you across state lines. Otherwise, you have to have appropriate MMJ/MMP documentation within the state in order to do so.

I'm really not the best person to field the question and my own personal opinion would be adding anything for purposes of dabbing is likely not going to be considered safe at all as we do not consider dabbing to be safe at all. We promote ingestion as the preferred mode of consumption and also offer vape pen services for at-scale customers. If you are looking to dilute, and aren't stuck on dabbing, I would [personally] suggest producing your own PEG400 vape pens as they will cut down the effects in a predictable manner. I did this when I first got my card because I found dabbing to be too intense. My tolerance has adjusted along the way though and no longer find that to be the case.

You can also dilute with terpenes for vape pens, but sourcing them for personal use is a bit problematic. There is also the aspect that terpenes, for me, do affect the... effects. If you are looking to wind down the intensity, terpenes can do so in this case, but I think the extent you can dilute is lesser and the actual "watering down" you're looking for would potentially not be had going that route. Also, just like PG... I would NOT dab PEG400!!! I believe they are both carcinogenic at dabbing temps. Don't quote me, just look into it before trying if you are so inclined.

I personally don't think they would take on this particular research based on some of the current items on our CSO's plate, but if you want to reach out PM me and i'll point you to the contact form on our site.

While there are surely quite a number of seemingly good folks on here, I sort of shudder to publicly post the url and have folks contact referencing "EpicNameGuy on FuckCombustion.com" lol. No offense to readers, of course.

 

[Flight of Fists]

apologize if this has been brought up but has anyone tried a vulcanizer?

http://www.riogrande.com/Product/Ri...k9xNy_o5U_Dt-PFM2c9hF2YWPQfbmU4x4bhoCT5jw_wcB

 

[Copacetic]

Thanks Epic, your comprehensive reply is greatly appreciated and clearly understood.
Professional responsibilities come with professional knowledge and I totally respect that.
I enjoy reading your posts here though, and hope that you don't mind me posing questions if we make it clear your answers aren't on behalf of your lab (or anyone else), and cannot be construed as medical advice?

If you're up for it, my first question would concern lab policies though:
In your own opinion, why might a lab (any lab) consider dabbing unsafe?

I understand that policies like these might be adopted for reasons to do with a lack of proven evidence that any given administration method IS safe, i.e. dabbing is untested, therefore considered unsafe until proven otherwise.
Or perhaps that tests HAVE been carried out, but been inconclusive/incomplete, therefore considered unsafe.....

Both these reasons, and others like them are factors I feel we must all make our own informed, adult decision whether to heed or ignore.

That being said, I'd be very keen to know if labs consider dabbing to be unsafe because it HAS been tested in some way, and found to definitely unsafe, therefore ruling it out as a sane practice.
( I'm guessing that since you dab yourself, you haven't seen evidence strong enough to dissuade you?)

Although you can't answer in a professional/scientific/medical capacity I'm certain your personal opinion on all sorts of things are greatly valued here on FC.

BTW, I won't ask for a contact form as I'm certain that a proper lab service like this will be far beyond my financial reach, and I'm betting that a professional laboratory would only offer advice on the safety of e.g. hemp oil after having carried out proper medical trials or some-such.
And dabbing is my own main area of interest anyway

 

[MileHighLife]

Thanks for the welcome. Right on about C&C, I got to meet the guys about a week ago.

Here's the link for the site.
http://www.cut2sizemetals.com/aluminum/rectangular-bar/abr/

Here's the data sheet I was looking at.
http://asm.matweb.com/search/SpecificMaterial.asp?bassnum=MA6061t6

I actually just received a few different 304 ss plates from the same guy for my project. Fast shipping and the plates are cut nicely and evenly.

 

[Monsoon]

I just placed an order for the RosinWorks 3.5"x2.5" plates, I believe the lead time right now is a couple weeks so it will likely be at least 3 weeks until I can get squishy with it. I think I'm the first one here to order them so I'll do a full review and all that jazz once it comes in.

I'm going to need to order some pressing screen bags soon, anyone know the best micron size for flower? They have 70u, 90u and 120u, not sure which is best. Going to get the 37u for dry sift.

 

[EpicNameGuy]

Thanks Epic, your comprehensive reply is greatly appreciated and clearly understood.
Professional responsibilities come with professional knowledge and I totally respect that.
I enjoy reading your posts here though, and hope that you don't mind me posing questions if we make it clear your answers aren't on behalf of your lab (or anyone else), and cannot be construed as medical advice?

If you're up for it, my first question would concern lab policies though:
In your own opinion, why might a lab (any lab) consider dabbing unsafe?

I understand that policies like these might be adopted for reasons to do with a lack of proven evidence that any given administration method IS safe, i.e. dabbing is untested, therefore considered unsafe until proven otherwise.
Or perhaps that tests HAVE been carried out, but been inconclusive/incomplete, therefore considered unsafe.....

Both these reasons, and others like them are factors I feel we must all make our own informed, adult decision whether to heed or ignore.

That being said, I'd be very keen to know if labs consider dabbing to be unsafe because it HAS been tested in some way, and found to definitely unsafe, therefore ruling it out as a sane practice.
( I'm guessing that since you dab yourself, you haven't seen evidence strong enough to dissuade you?)

Although you can't answer in a professional/scientific/medical capacity I'm certain your personal opinion on all sorts of things are greatly valued here on FC.

BTW, I won't ask for a contact form as I'm certain that a proper lab service like this will be far beyond my financial reach, and I'm betting that a professional laboratory would only offer advice on the safety of e.g. hemp oil after having carried out proper medical trials or some-such.
And dabbing is my own main area of interest anyway

Of course. Knowledge is power.

I sort of made a misstatement when I said we do not consider dabbing to be safe at all. The 'at all' portion was a bit much. We have done no studies that explicitly indicate its unsafe at all and wouldn't suggest that to anyone. We do extractions at the lab also so we definitely don't take any type of stance against dabbing. Rather, I meant to express that i doubt the lab could convey to anyone that dabbing anything is safe for reasons that are probably pretty obvious. But I didn't mean to imply we assert its unsafe and when i reread that just now I didn't communicate that well.

I appreciate the kind words. I think the community here has been really helpful for me along the way so im glad to contribute.

And for sure, dabbing is my primary personal interest here also.

Definitely feel free to ask as things come up. I'll do what I can.

 

[BoogerMan]

@ixtapa we will have to come up with another way to rehydrate using PG (or anything else besides H2O).

It was impossible to apply PG thoroughly without using too much. No way the PG was going to get into the middle. First I tried using a smaller dropper and added about .1g worth of PG (since the H2O nug gained 0.1g after being rehydrated). It was only getting hydrated right where the drop would land (and the bud wasn't really soaking it in. I had to sort of move the drop around with the dropper to get it to soak in). Since it was obviously still way too dry at this point, I then put 0.1g of PG on my fingers and rolled the bud super lightly in my fingers. I did this three times. So I used about 0.4g of PG total and it still wasn't moist evenly. Rolling the nug between my fingers broke it up a bit since many areas were still very dry even after adding drops first. Even if I were to do one drop at a time and cover the whole outside (no rolling between fingers so it will stay in one piece) I still don't think it would work well because the entire inside of the nug would still be bone dry and that would be way too much PG. By the end of everything, the nug had turned into a pile of broken pieces.

I used 2 fresh fan leaves in a jar with the nug to rehydrate the H2O nug. This works extremely well. It got up to 100% humidity in 12 hours. I let it sit out of the jar for maybe an hour (I didn't really keep track sorry) and then checked its humidity again. It was at about 68%. It felt nice and evenly hydrated like all my cured nugs.

We would have to figure out a similar method like I used for the H2O nug in order to hydrate evenly with PG, or anything else that is.

H2O nug dry weight - 0.94g
PG nug dry weight - 0.92g

H2O nug wet weight - 1.05g
PG nug wet weight - 1.30g

Pressing temp was 210F

Sorry I didn't weigh yields. The H2O nug was a little too big for my plates (it is a pretty airy bud even after balling it up) so some of the oil is still on the edges of the chip. And well, if you look below you can probably tell it would have been hard to weigh the PG yield basically like liquid. It's gonna be hard to apply a small enough amount of PG while still being able to get the whole nug evenly hydrated.

Time to go dab the little bit of H2O rosin that's good

 

[ixtapa]

Wow talk about giving the old college effort! Well, if we can't get anything other than water back into the nug, I'd say that's about all she wrote for this idea! Thanks for investigating for us @BoogerMan. Sorry it didn't pan out.

 

[Copacetic]

Well, it definitely seems as though there's minimal chance that PG works in this application, but I'd say that there are other liquids that might well work (and may be a better bet anyway)
I too want to thank you for trying this Boog.

Rather than volunteer someone elses flowers to the cause, I'll just say that should I ever get a press, and enough material that I can risk a small loss, I'll be trying Limonene-D, and depending on what I can find out about it, hemp oil to re-hydrate.
Hell might freeze over first though as I live in a very unfriendly place, and pay around $38/g for mediocre flower, and $120/g for shatter of a completely unknown nature!! (seems good, but I don't know if I've ever had GOOD concentrate. No labs here :-( ) so I feel especially grateful to Boog and all the others that have risked their precious product to advance the science

 

[Monsoon]

Haven't watched it yet but should be interesting:

 

[GuyLeDuche]

Well, it definitely seems as though there's minimal chance that PG works in this application, but I'd say that there are other liquids that might well work (and may be a better bet anyway)
I too want to thank you for trying this Boog.

Rather than volunteer someone elses flowers to the cause, I'll just say that should I ever get a press, and enough material that I can risk a small loss, I'll be trying Limonene-D, and depending on what I can find out about it, hemp oil to re-hydrate.
Hell might freeze over first though as I live in a very unfriendly place, and pay around $38/g for mediocre flower, and $120/g for shatter of a completely unknown nature!! (seems good, but I don't know if I've ever had GOOD concentrate. No labs here :-( ) so I feel especially grateful to Boog and all the others that have risked their precious product to advance the science

I assume the bulk of Limonene would boil off, but from my experiences using it to thin e-juice I found it to be very harsh. I couldn't add more than 2-3 drops per 3ml mix before the resulting product was too harsh to consume comfortably.
One point in its favor though is the low boiling point. I found I would have to add it last, after heating the mix, or it would just evaporate in the mixing process. My only concern then would be residuals, which I know nothing about lol. Did see Bubbleman's buddy Horatio got some nasty stuff out by refining large quantities of Limonene, but I'm not sure how that scales down to a few drops on a bud...

At least with using Limonene as a transporter you reduce the danger of other solvents that are too flammable for use indoors with electrics lol