RBT SEED

Other Side

Other Side

Retailer
Retailer
Ryan has been at it again. Waiting on parts for Splinter and he just couldn't help himself from designing.

This is his first entry for a vape dedicated to concentrate. This is VERY early and needs work so I am getting this thread going more to generate discussion on what this could be rather than focus on something that is already here. Ryan has to get Splinter and Milaana II going before he dedicates any meaningful time to this.

Let's start with some pics.
E66vtRC.jpg

Sliver on the left, Splinter on the right. As you can see they have the same exterior form factor as it stands now.

To access the heating element you just pull off the whole housing which is currently just pressure fit.
3iAPECr.jpg


Under the hood....
AMSi11C.jpg

JCgtVh4.jpg

Now again this is something Ryan dreamed up in minutes, created and shipped out to me so there are still a lot of questions on this one. As it stands now you scrape your trates onto the screen, put the cover back on and go to town!

This thread is more to talk about what you'd like to see here. We have had some discussions on design and the type of materials to use but we want feedback from FC. What do you all think?
 
abezthevap0r

abezthevap0r

Member
I remember seeing Ryan show this off on his Instagram live. I’m excited to see what’s to come of it. It’s definately an interesting and intriguing way to vape concentrates with just the burn off being the way to clean it. But he does amazing work and I’m sure this one will not fall short!
 
A

Andreaerdna

If God is the answer, then the question is wrong
Is it mica in between wire net, isn't it?

Am i alone thinking vaping concentrates on a mica sheet looks awful?
IIRC mica use something to help mica sheets stick together and liquids affect integrity of mica sheets (from vapman thread)

Is it taste on par at least with, let say, the muad dib?
 
Andreaerdna,
Other Side

Other Side

Retailer
Retailer
It's Mica and a stainless mesh for now just to get this going. Long term plans are to make it boro glass and titanium mesh.

Unfortunately I ran out of trates shortly after getting this and have been out for weeks. But I told Ryan taste needs work on the few dabs I had. That said I didn't have time to dial in the load amount or temp settings.
 
Last edited:
KeroZen

KeroZen

Chronic vapaholic
In the e-cig world some say that it's almost mandatory to use TC mode with Titanium as bad things happen when you make it glow. And in power mode, bad things are bound to happen...

I've also read mixed comments about the taste it has when in contact with organic matter. But some will say that they also can smell/taste other metals.
 
Other Side

Other Side

Retailer
Retailer
KeroZen said:
In the e-cig world some say that it's almost mandatory to use TC mode with Titanium as bad things happen when you make it glow. And in power mode, bad things are bound to happen...

I've also read mixed comments about the taste it has when in contact with organic matter. But some will say that they also can smell/taste other metals.
Click to expand...
This is exactly why this thread is open now. We want more feedback!
 
RastaBuddhaTao

RastaBuddhaTao

Well-Known Member
Manufacturer
KeroZen said:
In the e-cig world some say that it's almost mandatory to use TC mode with Titanium
Click to expand...

I believe that Titanium, SS and Ni can be used in temp control as their resistance changes. This change in resistance is what the "temp control" algorithm uses to calculate the temperature. Kanthal cant be used as its resistance doesn't change with temperature.

I haven't heard of Titanium not being used in wattage mode?

Good news is you can run it in either. The important question is what's the best conductive material to use ... SS or Ti and what would be the MSRP price difference as compared to the cost of Ti?
 
kuzko

kuzko

Well-Known Member
Andreaerdna said:
Is it taste on par at least with, let say, the muad dib?
Click to expand...

That’s what I was thinking. I’m a Maud Dib user and the mesh works pretty well, only problem is bigger globs tend to melt through into the bottom tin, and eventually the mesh starts to taste like carbon and must be replaced with a new basket.

It looks like on the Sliver the mesh is vertical so the concentrate melts down onto more mesh? Temperature control might keep the mesh from eventually tasting burnt. I dunno, the Sliver looks interesting, will for sure keep an eye on it.

Only other questions currently is how much it holds and how easy it is to load. Good luck and keep innovating!
 
M

MAbud

Well-Known Member
Would there be any way to make this an insert that is compatable with the Splinter? That would be more appealing to me than a separate unit
 
MAbud,
RastaBuddhaTao

RastaBuddhaTao

Well-Known Member
Manufacturer
@kuzko thanks for the MD competitive intel. The main issue found in testing was product sliding down the vertical surface, flavor degradation over time and the inability to hold much volume.

To address the initial issue we will shorten the height to make the screen "less vertical" as well as adding multiple screen layers to act like a "SS pad" used in convection concentrate use. This could also work with the MD on theory to stop "leak through"

The other issue is the weak, flimsy Mica as a center post. This was just to prototype quick and will be replaced by a borosilicate glass plate. The plate will be secured such that the dabbing surface will be ridged to allow for easy loading.

The idea is to avoid the cost and complexity of ceramic but this design may require a ceramic "catch cup" in the end.

The idea of the device is an "on-demand nail" that delivers 3-5 draws with fresh flavor and can then be run at elevated wattage to burn-off the screen pack allowing for a fresh sesh each time. This tech as configured will not do volume.

In the end, a heater embedded in ceramic might be the right solution. The issue is that ceramic is an insulator so it doesn't lend itself to "on-demand" so it's not the best tech for a portable. It's also expensive and frigile.

@MAbud there is a 510 deck design on the works that would easily accept a flower heater. I believe "dual purpose" vapes usually are a compromise. A car is a car, and a truck is a truck lol. This would be a frame with an attachable car and truck body lol.

Thanks to @Other Side and @420vapezone for testing these initial rough prototypes.

Great feedback everyone.... keep it coming
 
KeroZen

KeroZen

Chronic vapaholic
For the Titanium I think there are two problems, and both arise when you are not carefully regulating the temperature (ie. using in power mode and/or trying to dry burn the coils or mesh in this case)

First there is what we found in the BULLI and Project threads: oxidation happens as soon as you make them glow and when you get past the rainbow colors, it starts developing some kind of weird powdery coating, really bad looking. There are concerns that some forms of Ti-oxides might be bad for health, so that's the first point. And this powder begs to be dislodged...

The second point is that apparently when you make it glow you can reach a point where it ignites explosively like magnesium and spits molten bits of metal everywhere. This could be both dangerous overall and dramatic for your lungs if you happen to be drawing when it happens (should never happen though, never breath the fumes when you do dry burns!)

The first google result I found on some e-cig forum confirms that second point >> http://vapingunderground.com/threads/bad-idea-to-use-a-tc-coil-in-wattage-mode.132435/ and it's not the first time I read it. They all recommend to use Ti only in TC mode.

Don't know if this is some kind of urban legend and we all end up parroting it. But given the fact this device likely will have to get regular dry burns to get rid of the carbonized residues and leftovers, I think it's safer to stick to the good old stainless steel.

Plus you already got ample stock of SS mesh Ryan, so... :p
 
RastaBuddhaTao

RastaBuddhaTao

Well-Known Member
Manufacturer
KeroZen said:
For the Titanium I think there are two problems, and both arise when you are not carefully regulating the temperature (ie. using in power mode and/or trying to dry burn the coils or mesh in this case)

First there is what we found in the BULLI and Project threads: oxidation happens as soon as you make them glow and when you get past the rainbow colors, it starts developing some kind of weird powdery coating, really bad looking. There are concerns that some forms of Ti-oxides might be bad for health, so that's the first point. And this powder begs to be dislodged...

The second point is that apparently when you make it glow you can reach a point where it ignites explosively like magnesium and spits molten bits of metal everywhere. This could be both dangerous overall and dramatic for your lungs if you happen to be drawing when it happens (should never happen though, never breath the fumes when you do dry burns!)

The first google result I found on some e-cig forum confirms that second point >> http://vapingunderground.com/threads/bad-idea-to-use-a-tc-coil-in-wattage-mode.132435/ and it's not the first time I read it. They all recommend to use Ti only in TC mode.

Don't know if this is some kind of urban legend and we all end up parroting it. But given the fact this device likely will have to get regular dry burns to get rid of the carbonized residues and leftovers, I think it's safer to stick to the good old stainless steel.

Plus you already got ample stock of SS mesh Ryan, so... :p
Click to expand...

Thanks for the intel @KeroZen. I agree that with issues identified that Titianium is not worth spending time investigating. There is limited if any value in Titanium over Stainless. Thanks for keeping us out of that rat hole... sure is a few of em around here
 
RastaBuddhaTao

RastaBuddhaTao

Well-Known Member
Manufacturer
RastaBuddhaTao

RastaBuddhaTao

Well-Known Member
Manufacturer
Worked with @Other Side for the last few weeks to redesign the Sliver heater. An additional wick layer was added and some length was added to the heater as well. The shape of the receiving "pocket" was optimized for ease of loading. Testing shows a quick heat-up time and uniform and controlled heating.

Provided the Master Beta testing goes well, half a dozen units will be made to feed the beta team of @DieHard @pakalolo and @IAmKrazy2 and a few new faces.

Here is a shot of the heater on the latest prototype.

https://instagram.com/p/Bff5PV2hlcD/
 
kuzko

kuzko

Well-Known Member
Nice, looks hardcore. How’s the durability so far? Have you had to change the mesh at all after many uses?
 
kuzko,
RastaBuddhaTao

RastaBuddhaTao

Well-Known Member
Manufacturer
kuzko said:
Nice, looks hardcore. How’s the durability so far? Have you had to change the mesh at all after many uses?
Click to expand...

It went through so hard core abuse and held up well. I spoke with the manufacture today and in production there are things that can be done to clean-up the edge treatment and make it more durable.

It runs at around 40 watts and you can do burn-offs at 70 with no damage to the heater. I think it has promise so I am eager to hear what @otherside thinks
 
szai

szai

Well-Known Member
RastaBuddhaTao said:
It went through so hard core abuse and held up well. I spoke with the manufacture today and in production there are things that can be done to clean-up the edge treatment and make it more durable.

It runs at around 40 watts and you can do burn-offs at 70 with no damage to the heater. I think it has promise so I am eager to hear what @otherside thinks
Click to expand...


Would it be possible to make a version that worked with pressed hash? I'd certainly want to get one then.
 
RastaBuddhaTao

RastaBuddhaTao

Well-Known Member
Manufacturer
szai said:
Would it be possible to make a version that worked with pressed hash? I'd certainly want to get one then.
Click to expand...
Good question. Bubble hash runs nice in Milaana and Splinter. It would work with Sliver but it would be combusting the plant matter... so it's really meant to run clean. That said if you crank it to 70 watts it's like a new oven on auto Clean lol.
 
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