TedJones
Well-Known Member
I haven’t and don’t remember anyone else mentioning. It’s worked so well out of the box, so I’ve left it alone. Think the rubies work good in this one
Phase3 Vaporizers
- Thread starter invertedisdead
- Start date
Cheebsy
Microbe minion
There was some discussion and experimenting early on, I believe it was when the z8 released (guessing)? There was the postulation that zirconia was tastier, Ryan figured that was due to the slower heat transfer rate of zirconia compared to the faster corundum but I don't think there was much experimenting. The materials have been thoroughly considered and I trust Ryan's judgement and haven't found the z8, zx or the ZXL lacking in any way.
WRT vape signature, I think strain choice makes much more difference than the device. Having said that I vape to help me sleep and the ZXL is the one I can get most profound effects from due to the bowl size. I haven't yet found a conduction dominant vape I prefer over the phase3 line.
WRT vape signature, I think strain choice makes much more difference than the device. Having said that I vape to help me sleep and the ZXL is the one I can get most profound effects from due to the bowl size. I haven't yet found a conduction dominant vape I prefer over the phase3 line.
Only reason I ask is because users in the Tempest thread have noticed that Zirc balls offer the smoothest experience, in terms of potential harshness. I intend to use ZX on small rigs and dry pieces, so wondered if I would find any benefit.I haven’t and don’t remember anyone else mentioning. It’s worked so well out of the box, so I’ve left it alone. Think the rubies work good in this one
TedJones
Well-Known Member
Ya never know until you try I guess! Maybe they’re better in the portables for whatever reason (are best 4 Tempest imo). Tried in my Taroma when I had it, but went back to reds in that one.
Everyone I know who tried them went back to ruby.
They heat up much more evenly which is what keeps the whole device properly saturated.
Yes, it will come with a new ultra low profile zirconia diffuser bowl with two 20MM screen shelves.
Bowl capacity is similar to ZXL but a bit larger, 1st shelf is ~ 20% larger than the ZXL shelf and the 2nd is ~10X larger.
As of right now I think it would fit other 22MM OD diffuser bowls, but I'm still considering putting a female taper on the parts to fit together more securely. Perhaps I shouldn't to keep things more open.
Yep the heat transfer rate on zirconia is slower so it could potentially give the impression of being more flavorful.
However you can essentially approximate this anytime by A: using larger beads - (reducing the surface area) or B: just turning the temperature down on the controller. (gotta love temperature control)
There's definitely no replacement for great material, but it's amazing how much a great vape can really help amplify the lower grades too!
Thanks so much for rocking with me since the very beginning!!
In a device like that, I would think zirconia would likely be serving an important role of increasing the heat retention as it's a very dense material (heavier than the titanium housing) - I read most of the threads, this is also why you see people talking about "lag", as the material is very dense, so it takes residence time to reach equilibrium.
Honestly I can probably fix that. Maybe I need a tempest to tinker with... also I got a cool stem design for that one or the anvil I've been messing with because I'm putting my new high surface area technology into everything
That's one of the things about cordless vapes versus tethered - with the ZX if you need a smoother experience, we can just go in at a lower temperature which is super easy since we aren't ever going to run out of power.
The diameter of the device being used has a noticeable impact as well!
If you stack up too many insulators you only build up more thermal resistance to heat, when the goal should be even heating!
Thanks Inverted. Every time I ask a question here, I learn more about your vapes, and vapes in general. I appreciate that a lot.Everyone I know who tried them went back to ruby.
They heat up much more evenly which is what keeps the whole device properly saturated.
Yes, it will come with a new ultra low profile zirconia diffuser bowl with two 20MM screen shelves.
Bowl capacity is similar to ZXL but a bit larger, 1st shelf is ~ 20% larger than the ZXL shelf and the 2nd is ~10X larger.
As of right now I think it would fit other 22MM OD diffuser bowls, but I'm still considering putting a female taper on the parts to fit together more securely. Perhaps I shouldn't to keep things more open.
Yep the heat transfer rate on zirconia is slower so it could potentially give the impression of being more flavorful.
However you can essentially approximate this anytime by A: using larger beads - (reducing the surface area) or B: just turning the temperature down on the controller. (gotta love temperature control)
There's definitely no replacement for great material, but it's amazing how much a great vape can really help amplify the lower grades too!
Thanks so much for rocking with me since the very beginning!!
In a device like that, I would think zirconia would likely be serving an important role of increasing the heat retention as it's a very dense material (heavier than the titanium housing) - I read most of the threads, this is also why you see people talking about "lag", as the material is very dense, so it takes residence time to reach equilibrium.
Honestly I can probably fix that. Maybe I need a tempest to tinker with... also I got a cool stem design for that one or the anvil I've been messing with because I'm putting my new high surface area technology into everything
That's one of the things about cordless vapes versus tethered - with the ZX if you need a smoother experience, we can just go in at a lower temperature which is super easy since we aren't ever going to run out of power.
The diameter of the device being used has a noticeable impact as well!
If you stack up too many insulators you only build up more thermal resistance to heat, when the goal should be even heating!
IZ_is
New Member
that taper is one of the key differentiators to the ZX and ZXL's, am I right?
please stay on your design cue!
I think you're thinking of my injector/diffuser hybrid bowls.
On my ZX and ZXL zirconia bowls, the joint sits inside like an injector, but the bowl and the heater share the exact same internal diameter, so the flow path is totally even across the material, like a diffuser.
What I'm debating now is putting a female taper on the bowl and heater so they mate legitimately, compared to just a tube sitting on top a slightly smaller tube kinda design which I think most of the diffusers are currently. Same principal as a log vape. I just don't know if that's a great connection, seems like it tends to be a little wobbly IME. Though if people want compatibility with 3rd party maybe it's better to just go along with it. I do know that a female taper is typically a lot harder to do for hobbyists as it requires 5-axis CNC capabilities and most people are still working of 3-axis. I'm not that worried about 3rd party compatibility since I'm building my own bowl, but I also don't want to alienate the tinkering part that people seem to like.
I think my ZXBowl is a good design all things considered, but I ran a vote on my Instagram page and received a crazy 75% sway to make the 25MM a diffuser. Some of those votes were from ZXL owners who I know love the ZXL already, so I kinda think people just want to see my take on that format.
The 25MM design was pretty much done. I'm not sure what provoked me to even ask to be honest, but as a business I really do need to give people what they want so I can grow the brand and hopefully someday get to do the really big ideas. So I started over with a new file and a totally new bowl design. Originally in September/October of last year the plan was for it to share the ZXL bowl to reduce parts.
I admit I'm still a little bit nervous about doing this 25MM as it's got five parts (and maybe one or two more)
It's not like the ZX or ZXL where I only have to deal with two designs; I just hope there's enough interest in the thing to justify completing this one.
This kind of transparency and knowledge dropping is why I am going to pre-order the ZX and why I am interested in your 25mm Wireless idea. I might have to pre-order both!
coolbreeze
Well-Known Member
I think I'd prefer a universal fit to a taper. I use my ZBowls probably 85% of the time but it's great that they mostly fit my other bowls, too, for slightly different uses or whatever. Is there a way it could be both? A male heater, for instance, could have a straight 22mm ID to fit other bowls. Otoh, if the the female heater had like a 2mm straight area inside at the top right under the matrix with a 22mm ID, it could fit a std bowl and also a male Z bowl.
Cheebsy
Microbe minion
I don't have any skin in the game as I don't have any diffuser bowls already, but I like the sound of the taper to effectively seal and stabilise the head. As @coolbreeze says, are both is possible?
Oden
Well-Known Member
Yeah it's a good idea and you should do it in my opinion.
The more your diffuser head is compatible and optimally with the 22 diffuser bowls, the more potential future buyers you will have.
add1noob
Well-Known Member
I would vote for the taper as there are already other options if someone wanted to experiment. The tighter connection would lead to a better experience overall in my opinion. The ZX having a perfect fit between the bowl and heater is one of my favorite features.
It’s better to have a heater that fits perfectly on one bowl than a heater that fits poorly on many bowls. If people really want to try titanium or wood bowls I’m sure you could find a way to include them in the line up.
Just to clarify, by adding the female taper that would then make it NOT compatible with other stuff already out in the 22MM format.
I mean I feel like its probably a better idea, but the fact that nobody else has done it means there would be no immediate compatibility.
The Z bowls fit others because we all used a standard size and taper.
For some reason with the diffusers this has been avoided. Maybe because it's more expensive to produce.
When I built my last diffuser prototype it worked this same way, with a built in female taper. It was my budget heavy, designed to work with off the shelf glass adapters. The problem with off the shelf glass adapters is they taper internally which I don't like that much. I prefer the straight bore bowl with the external taper, like the Z series use.
No real plans to do two different ones at this point for simplicities sake.
That's about where I'm at with it.
If the platform is well received enough then others will follow with 3rd party stuff anyways.
Cross compatibility is nice, but I'm trying to provide a superior experience right out of the box. These wireless systems all have big handles which puts a lot of leverage on the vape. For that reason I feel more confident incorporating a real seal like I've always done.
Oden
Well-Known Member
Ok bro it's up to you.
The best, in my humble opinion, is that your vape should obviously be compatible with other 22mm bowls
add1noob
Well-Known Member
Opting for the taper mainly restricts access to metal and glass bowls. However, considering it includes a zirconia bowl, a glass one isn’t necessary. Plus, there are plenty of diffusers available if you prefer a metal bowl. Getting a custom wood bowl should be easy enough, I'd imagine.
Flavor Vaper
Well-Known Member
I'm personally looking for the best Phase3 device possible, have absolutely no interest in pairing it with other components. It would be a damn shame to sacrifice performance in order to accommodate 3rd-party parts that are likely inferior. Just my $.02.
One of my biggest annoyance with ball vapes, was how poorly everything always fit together. Having a glass injector bowl with 10,000 miles distance to the herb etc.
If I'm buying other bowls for my ZX, it will be spare P3 Zirc bowls.
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Oden
Well-Known Member
People love being able to use their vape balls on multiple third-party bowls.
This is a strategic choice for phase 3.
In any case I would take this new phase 3 vape and it doesn't matter if it has the female cone or not
Yeah I think we need to view it in terms of Phase3 attracting new customers to the ecosystem. Makes sense from that perspective.
I hope P3 always has some products that are perfectly custom fit however.
BreadStick
Well-Known Member
I'm not too concerned about being able to use the ZXXL with different bowls so I'd personally be more curious how the cost of manufacture of each design would compare and how noticeable a performance benefit you'd see from the taper. How confident are you the taper will make a really noticeable performance difference? Is all the extra manufacturing hassle + cost gonna be worth the potential performance boost? If adding the taper means you're gonna have to add much more than $30-$50 to the price I think you'd probably need to justify it really well to make people who aren't already sold on the Z line consider . I find the omega wireless is able to sit on the glass 22mm diffuser bowl fine and the roast is fairly even, I imagine changing from glass to zirconia will already improve the roast.
I don't think I'd use this too much if the diffuser Z bowl has a nice amount of volume adjustment, but for those that like tinkering would it be possible to do something like the CC Omega thread on bowl adaptors? I'd a brief google about threading zirconia and it looks like it exists but I imagine it could cost a fortune. However I think if you could find some way of making the different heater-bowl adaptors you'd be able to create a nice eco-system where you could try different bowl designs without needing a whole new head each time? I still think you'd struggle to convince most folk other than us nerds on here that we need this.
I don't think I'd use this too much if the diffuser Z bowl has a nice amount of volume adjustment, but for those that like tinkering would it be possible to do something like the CC Omega thread on bowl adaptors? I'd a brief google about threading zirconia and it looks like it exists but I imagine it could cost a fortune. However I think if you could find some way of making the different heater-bowl adaptors you'd be able to create a nice eco-system where you could try different bowl designs without needing a whole new head each time? I still think you'd struggle to convince most folk other than us nerds on here that we need this.
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madhockeydad
Art is beauty
Is there anyway to make the 14 and/or 18mm injectors as wireless? That also might be an idea. Lots of wireless ball vapes. All the wireless ones seem to be much larger and heavier which I sssume is needed to store enough heat. Any other approaches besides adding tons of mass?
That might also be a commercially interesting solution!!
ZX all day everyday. Rock on everyone.
That might also be a commercially interesting solution!!
ZX all day everyday. Rock on everyone.
A member in here made a wireless ZX, but I can't seem to find the post for some reason.
At least I think it was in this thread, or maybe it was emailed to me?
I get a lot of email testimonials, I only wish more people posted their experiences publicly regarding Phase3 because I know it would instill a lot more buyer confidence.
The thing about wireless is the most common size is a specific 25MM axial coil with the heating wraps extending down the bottom.
The ZX and ZXL aren't compatible with any kind of axial coil, only with a "barrel" coil. I guess there's people trying to do the wireless with anything and everything now but I don't really want to offer 100 redundant products or make it confusing for potential customers so for now the 25MM wireless is the only one planned. Could maybe do a wireless ZX but I'm still not totally sure how much interest is truly in the wireless scene, most people seem to want pen shape vapes from what I see.
The other approach besides adding tons of mass is to simply finish the bowl faster.
People talk a lot about heat retention, but for me, I much prefer a rapid extraction.
Heat retention is ultimately a bit counter intuitive because to achieve it requires longer heat up times, which is a net turn off for people considering switching to a vaporizer.
If you want a ZX you definitely want the matching bowl, it was designed to work together perfectly.
I'm gonna check the price difference, I don't think it should be that much more at my quantities but I need to confirm that.
The thing I'm thinking about is that I've already had customers coming to me from those diffusers, telling me they prefer my joint taper seal since it's air tight.
Not really planning on modular joint adapters at this point, as you say I think it's a bit over-the-top. Tinkers are always going to tinker, but I really just want to provide the best out-of-the-box experience I can provide. Same thing with the beads, I never made them real easy to change because I already tested every bead material and design over the last 4 years. But some people want to do their own experiments as well which I guess I can understand as that's the kind of person I am too. That said, yeah, I'm trying to go after more mass appeal to keep the brand alive.
Exactly, I also can't guarantee compatibility with metal bowls in general because as a diffuser, the bowl will now expand internally inside the heater housing, and I have not tested that type of materials mismatch. I remember reading of another companies ceramic vape cracking from expanding heat posts.
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