Phase3 Vaporizers

MileHighHuman

Well-Known Member
Been doing a lot of reading and vapor geeking; found this pretty interesting.


"An electronic cigarette can be used to simulate and substitute for tobacco smoking. However, electronic cigarettes can create aerosol particles in a size range too small to gravitationally settle in the alveoli of the deep lung. As a result, little or no nicotine delivered by an electronic cigarette can enter the circulatory system. Some nicotine delivered by an electronic cigarette can be slowly absorbed through the gastrointestinal (GI) tract and the buccal tissues of mouth and throat. The pharmacokinetics of nicotine delivered via electronic cigarettes can be much slower than the pharmacokinetics of nicotine delivered by smoked cigarettes; as such, electronic cigarettes can be ineffective in treating acute nicotine cravings."

"The aerosol generating devices provided herein can generate aerosol particles with sizes optimal for deep lung delivery by controlling the linear flow rate for a carrier gas (e.g., air) over a heater element within a device provided herein, wherein a substrate (e.g., liquid nicotine solution) is vaporized upon delivery to or onto the heater element. The linear flow rate for a carrier gas (e.g., air) over the heater upon vaporization of the substrate (e.g., liquid nicotine solution) affects the particle size of the aerosol particles produced by vapor condensation, with more rapid flow rates dilute the vapor such that it condenses into smaller particles. In other words the particle size distribution of the aerosol can be determined by the concentration of the substrate vapor during condensation. This vapor concentration can, in turn, be determined by the extent to which flow of carrier gas (e.g., air) over the surface of the heater element dilutes the vaporized substrate (e.g. liquid nicotine solution). To achieve smaller or larger particles, the flow rate of a carrier gas (e.g., air) through an aerosol generation region of the device comprising the heater element can be altered by (i) modifying (increase or decrease) flow rate through the use of a valve, and/or (ii) modifying the cross-sectional area of the region of the device comprising the heater element (e.g., aerosol generation region) to increase or decrease linear carrier gas (e.g., air) velocity for a given volumetric flow rate."

This is what adjusting the pearl size does, it modifies the flow rate.


Makes sense about the valve.

Not sure about thee cig part tho. I vape high mg nicotine juices (25mg/35mg) in a sub ohm and they definitely hit me instantly.

Does the part about particles size relate in anyway to the Subliamtor and its gasification/subliamtion claims? Seems I remember they talk about how the vapor particles are super small and get absorbed better by the body.

Off topic:

But you are very satisfied with the coil clip?
Is there any wiggling?
 

invertedisdead

PHASE3
Manufacturer
Does the part about particles size relate in anyway to the Subliamtor and its gasification/subliamtion claims? Seems I remember they talk about how the vapor particles are super small and get absorbed better by the body.

It basically says the opposite of what Sublimator claims. Sub restricts the vapor with their "atomizer" which they claim reduces the particle size, but the quote above from a scientific paper says more rapid flow rate dilutes the vapor to condense into smaller particles. There's various ecigs on Google Patents that reference particle size manipulation - one even uses ambient air inlets post-vaporization, basically what the Vapcap does.


But you are very satisfied with the coil clip?
Is there any wiggling?

It works fine thus far, there's wiggling on this one because it's a 20mm coil on a 19mm prototype, but with my previous 20mm prototype it was super solid.
 

MileHighHuman

Well-Known Member
It basically says the opposite of what Sublimator claims. Sub restricts the vapor with their "atomizer" which they claim reduces the particle size, but the quote above from a scientific paper says more rapid flow rate dilutes the vapor to condense into smaller particles. There's various ecigs on Google Patents that reference particle size manipulation - one even uses ambient air inlets post-vaporization, basically what the Vapcap does.




It works fine thus far, there's wiggling on this one because it's a 20mm coil on a 19mm prototype, but with my previous 20mm prototype it was super solid.

Thx for the clarification. I figured I was incorrect, but I remembered Sublimator always talking about particles haha..

I still have never used any of the clip kits. Seems like the smaller size ones would provide a stronger strength connection?

What size screens are you using? Or really, how course are they? Do you use the same screen for the bowl and also holding the spheres or are they different types? Screen types play a big part in airflow :2c:
 

invertedisdead

PHASE3
Manufacturer
I still have never used any of the clip kits. Seems like the smaller size ones would provide a stronger strength connection?

It's an o-ring not a rubberband though :D you still want a little give so it acts like a shock absorber.

What size screens are you using? Or really, how course are they? Do you use the same screen for the bowl and also holding the spheres or are they different types? Screen types play a big part in airflow :2c:

They're 3/4" SS screens right now, same screen. Final version might use a slightly different, or smaller screen.

:leaf:

Cool thing about this vape is since it's glass you can just leave the heater sitting on the bowl so it takes up almost no room. Just like an e-nail.
 

MileHighHuman

Well-Known Member
I know you use it dry, but I cant imagine how pure the flavor would taste if you used a piece of glass that had less slits in the perc. Even when dry those slits will decrease the flavor. Im sure you know that already, but if I were you id pick up another piece asap just to see the amazing flavor potential with this vaporizer.

I just bought this. Only 3.2 inches big and only $9. Looks like a flavor saver for sure

:mmmm:

https://www.dhgate.com/store/produc...96574187470848#st1-31-1|0|0;sthome|2786653296


I know it won't be able to hold / stand with the vape, but that can be fixed with a cheap enail stand.
 
Last edited:

MileHighHuman

Well-Known Member

Thx for your suggestion, but ceramic provides much better flavor in my opinion.

The flavor profile that ceramic produces is the reason why im interested in trying them.

I actually prefer the flavor from glass over quartz too.

Not hating on quartz. It has it use, but just not with this vape for me personally.

Plus I don't see much cleaning needed to be done with this vape.

My G43 hasn't needed to be cleaned once with heavy everyday use for a few weeks.

This vape has the same type of setup, so I assume it'll be similar in terms of cleaning.

:2c:
 

invertedisdead

PHASE3
Manufacturer
I know you use it dry, but I cant imagine how pure the flavor would taste if you used a piece of glass that had less slits in the perc. Even when dry those slits will decrease the flavor. Im sure you know that already, but if I were you id pick up another piece asap just to see the amazing flavor potential with this vaporizer.

I just bought this. Only 3.2 inches big and only $9. Looks like a flavor saver for sure

:mmmm:

https://www.dhgate.com/store/produc...96574187470848#st1-31-1|0|0;sthome|2786653296


I know it won't be able to hold / stand with the vape, but that can be fixed with a cheap enail stand.

It's good to cover all angles, I just ran it through a big 14 inch beaker for a few skullcrushers :science: :brow:

i've been trying to find ceramic spheres and had a company ask which grade of ceramic aluminum oxide i'd want.

What grade would that be?

Probably as pure as you can find! The purest version is of course, sapphire :science:


I have another vape design based on this one but 100% quartz, I might try and build one when I can get some more glass parts built.

I actually prefer the flavor from glass over quartz too.

They're both made from sand! :smug:
 

lazylathe

Almost there...
i've been trying to find ceramic spheres and had a company ask which grade of ceramic aluminum oxide i'd want.

What grade would that be?

I did a quick look and found they are available in 2 grades:
1- Used for Impast Surface Treatment
2- Used for Shot Peening applications

I would imagine it boils down to one is harder that the other but not sure which way...
Whoever you inquired with is the one to ask!

Very easy to clean in an ultrasonic cleaner!
 

MileHighHuman

Well-Known Member
I replied telling them the ceramic spheres would be used in a heater around 400F and up to 450F max and asked which grade ceramic they would suggest.

ill let FC know what they say.

I agree sapphire is the purest version of ceramic, but for some reason I really want to try out the flavor profile from that white colored ceramic.

Another example was the Vapor Brother 2.5, I remember people saying those ceramic plates tasted great for vaping concentrates. Along with the Herbalizer ceramic chamber, and I think the MiniVap is also ceramic (correct me if wrong) and I remember users loving the flavor. Thats why im interned in that specific type of ceramic. Obviously sapphire will be my 1st choice, but I still really want to give that other type of ceramic a try.

:science:
 

MileHighHuman

Well-Known Member
Whats people's opinion on these for an easy off the shelf (not custom made) bowl?

They both are out of stock, but we can still discuss.

The first bowl probably is best, but I included the other just to see other members thoughts.

I like big potent hits, which the 1st bowl in the Imgur link looks like it can provide, but the 2nd bowl would allow the user to place the screen however far down into the bowl that they would like, making it possible to load anywhere from .01 to probably 1-2 grams https://imgur.com/a/U6i4Wqp

Im not into loading 1 gram bowls, but like said you should be able to adjust the screen anywhere to load bowls for .01 to 1+ gram

It doesn't flare out either, which should help out with the few not vaporized crumbs you experienced with your original bowl @invertedisdead

Here are the bowls: https://imgur.com/a/U6i4Wqp

How much material do y'all think the 1st bowl could properly hold / vaporize?
 

invertedisdead

PHASE3
Manufacturer
Whats people's opinion on these for an easy off the shelf (not custom made) bowl?

They both are out of stock, but we can still discuss.

The first bowl probably is best, but I included the other just to see other members thoughts.

I like big potent hits, which the 1st bowl in the Imgur link looks like it can provide, but the 2nd bowl would allow the user to place the screen however far down into the bowl that they would like, making it possible to load anywhere from .01 to probably 1-2 grams https://imgur.com/a/U6i4Wqp

Im not into loading 1 gram bowls, but like said you should be able to adjust the screen anywhere to load bowls for .01 to 1+ gram

It doesn't flare out either, which should help out with the few not vaporized crumbs you experienced with your original bowl @invertedisdead

Here are the bowls: https://imgur.com/a/U6i4Wqp

How much material do y'all think the 1st bowl could properly hold / vaporize?

That was one of the adapters that I wanted to try, but I couldn't find that one in stock either. I ordered a few similar ones, but they just haven't shown up yet.

I tend to prefer smaller bowls and keeping the flavor funky fresh! :leaf:

Super Lemon Haze to start the day off :science: couple Cookie crumbs in the grinder from last nights final sesh.... Lemon Cookies :mmmm:
 

MileHighHuman

Well-Known Member
That was one of the adapters that I wanted to try, but I couldn't find that one in stock either. I ordered a few similar ones, but they just haven't shown up yet.

I tend to prefer smaller bowls and keeping the flavor funky fresh! :leaf:

Super Lemon Haze to start the day off :science: couple Cookie crumbs in the grinder from last nights final sesh.... Lemon Cookies :mmmm:

I agree about the smaller bowls providing better flavor, but I do need it hold at least .25 just in case I want a big rip.

Do you think the 1st bowl (small size) in the Imgur photo can hold .25?

Or, do you feel that it's too big?


Also, got some info on ceramic aluminum oxide. How do these results look compared to sapphire?

And would these work with this vape?

Properties of Alumina/Aluminum Oxide (Al2O3)
  • Very good electrical insulation (1x1014 to 1x1015 Ωcm)
  • Moderate to extremely high mechanical strength (300 to 630 MPa)
  • Very high compressive strength (2,000 to 4,000 MPa)
  • High hardness (15 to 19 GPa)
  • Moderate thermal conductivity (20 to 30 W/mK)
  • High corrosion and wear resistance
  • Good gliding properties
  • Low density (3.75 to 3.95 g/cm3)
  • Operating temperature without mechanical load 1,000 to 1,500°C.
  • Bioinert and food compatible
 
Last edited:

MileHighHuman

Well-Known Member
https://oregonglassblower.com/18-18mm-Glass-Adapter-With-10mm-Carb-18M-18F-18-18c10.htm If you don't see a size that he offers, He will customize one for you.

Thx for the suggestion, but Im not a fan of bowls with carbs, plus we are trying to find bowls that don't have flairs.

And if you used the carb, a lot of vapor residue would build up on the heater/spheres.

If you clear your hits by pulling the Inverted vape out of the bowl, it will stay clean for a very long time.

Plus his items are pricey. $37?

Adapters are usually around $10

Also, I didn't have a good experience whenever I ordered from him.

Not trying to be negative, just my opinion for anyone out there that might find it helpful :2c:
 

Hippie

Well-Known Member
I like them with a side arm for a handle as it saves you the bother of having to bend some wire or something to make one

A cheaper one from far far away
https://www.dhgate.com/store/product/18-18mm-glass-adapter-with-14mm-carb-glass/408713325.html

Or there's these with a thinner handle
https://ebay.us/CZnq1D

A shortie wiithout a handle
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/18mm-To-...onnector-Expander-Reducer-Clear/143299148718?

And a longer one
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Multi-Fe...cing-Transfer-Adapter-Chemistry/172798718826?

Would be nice to find something cheap that's easier to fit and hold a gauze in like the Herborizer bowls

Best solution I've found is to shape an Arizer domed screen round a 14mm male joint and push it down the stem sandwiched between 2 pencils to stop it deforming while you wedge it in place.
 

invertedisdead

PHASE3
Manufacturer
I agree about the smaller bowls providing better flavor, but I do need it hold at least .25 just in case I want a big rip.

Do you think the 1st bowl (small size) in the Imgur photo can hold .25?

Or, do you feel that it's too big?

It looks like it should be big enough, but sometimes online photos can be hard to tell. The second bowl looks pretty huge lol :science:

Sometimes I get bigger rips just by turning the temp down. Almost like you can go so hot sometimes that the herb produces less vapor, in a sense. IDK, just a stoned observation :hmm:

Sometimes I like to supercharge a smaller flower bowl with some nice dry sift :brow: more zam, less plant :whoa:
@Morty loves his concentrate toppers :brow:

Also, got some info on ceramic aluminum oxide. How do these results look compared to sapphire?

They have the same chemical composition, so the "on-paper" properties will be similar - the structure and purity of sapphire change some of the properties though.
 

MileHighHuman

Well-Known Member
It looks like it should be big enough, but sometimes online photos can be hard to tell. The second bowl looks pretty huge lol :science:

Sometimes I get bigger rips just by turning the temp down. Almost like you can go so hot sometimes that the herb produces less vapor, in a sense. IDK, just a stoned observation :hmm:

Sometimes I like to supercharge a smaller flower bowl with some nice dry sift :brow: more zam, less plant :whoa:
@Morty loves his concentrate toppers :brow:



They have the same chemical composition, so the "on-paper" properties will be similar - the structure and purity of sapphire change some of the properties though.

Lol yeah that 2nd bowl is huge, but I figured a screen could hopefully hold anywhere desired. I definitley prefer the smaller bowl, but they won't restock until June... I really like the extra square space for flowers.

interesting about the bigger rips at lower temps :science:

Dry sift is great for topping bowls. You ever had hash rosin? It's pretty cheap and can add some extra potency. Im not educated enough on it tho to know how clean it is compared to other options. :shrug:

Im trying to get a price quote for the ceramic spheres, ill keep the thread updated when I've got that info.

I've been looking at screens, and really liked these, but the seller's license to sell on Ebay expired right before I tried to buy them. They were listed as 60 mesh, but whenever I search other 60 mesh screens the photos just dont seem like the holes are as big.

The 1st photo is the ones that I wanted but expired. The 2nd photo is another seller, listed at 60 mesh, but they just seem like smaller air flow holes. Whats other members opinion?

https://imgur.com/a/rqD0h63
 

nonamekevin

Well-Known Member
Lol yeah that 2nd bowl is huge, but I figured a screen could hopefully hold anywhere desired. I definitley prefer the smaller bowl, but they won't restock until June... I really like the extra square space for flowers.

interesting about the bigger rips at lower temps :science:

Dry sift is great for topping bowls. You ever had hash rosin? It's pretty cheap and can add some extra potency. Im not educated enough on it tho to know how clean it is compared to other options. :shrug:

Im trying to get a price quote for the ceramic spheres, ill keep the thread updated when I've got that info.

I've been looking at screens, and really liked these, but the seller's license to sell on Ebay expired right before I tried to buy them. They were listed as 60 mesh, but whenever I search other 60 mesh screens the photos just dont seem like the holes are as big.

The 1st photo is the ones that I wanted but expired. The 2nd photo is another seller, listed at 60 mesh, but they just seem like smaller air flow holes. Whats other members opinion?

https://imgur.com/a/rqD0h63
Hard to tell because the scale isn't the same.

Id never considered a carb'd bowl before this thread, but I'm kind interested now. With the elev8r, I just lift the heater off and am able to clear the little water piece, so I'm not sure if there would be much benefit to the carb. It also looks like @invertedisdead is able to clear the piece by lifting the heater as well.

:rockon:
 

MileHighHuman

Well-Known Member
Hard to tell because the scale isn't the same.

Id never considered a carb'd bowl before this thread, but I'm kind interested now. With the elev8r, I just lift the heater off and am able to clear the little water piece, so I'm not sure if there would be much benefit to the carb. It also looks like @invertedisdead is able to clear the piece by lifting the heater as well.

:rockon:


Yeah I definitely plan to NOT use a carb bowl.

Your Inversion vape would get dirty very quickly if you did use the carb bowl, plus you'll need to removed the heater anyways to stir the flowers. :2c:
 

invertedisdead

PHASE3
Manufacturer
interesting about the bigger rips at lower temps :science:

It's kinda like - with these PID vapes you can go so high in temperature that the whole show is over so fast, so sometimes just turning the temp down a little bit gives you a lot more vapor to inhale. I also find lower temp vapor can be more "spicy" and have more of that "zing" for folks that want to feel that old school "took the wind out of me" sensation after a fat rip. Plus the flavor is crazy good at moderate temps, but you can turn it up so high that all the flavor is gone, I guess that's essentially the "slow smoking" temp region that HeadVripper Mark used to talk about.

Dry sift is great for topping bowls. You ever had hash rosin? It's pretty cheap and can add some extra potency. Im not educated enough on it tho to know how clean it is compared to other options. :shrug:

Great hash rosin is one of my absolute favorites, it's the most expensive cannabis product per gram here in SoCal! The cleanliness really depends on the quality of the starting material (the hash) I've had hash rosin that was more gunky than flower rosin, and I've had hash rosin that is nearly as clean as purified solvent extracts with almost nothing to wipe away after a dab. My recent favorite is full melt water hash , I also find that full melt hash vaporizes at lower temps than any other concentrate or extract somehow... :hmm:especially off my ruby or sapphire faceted insert. :sherlock: The cream of the crop, IMHO! :p

I've been looking at screens, and really liked these, but the seller's license to sell on Ebay expired right before I tried to buy them. They were listed as 60 mesh, but whenever I search other 60 mesh screens the photos just dont seem like the holes are as big.

The 1st photo is the ones that I wanted but expired. The 2nd photo is another seller, listed at 60 mesh, but they just seem like smaller air flow holes. Whats other members opinion?

https://imgur.com/a/rqD0h63

Are you looking for something with big mesh or small mesh?

I was going to source some really nice multi layer woven screens for my bowls cause I like them to feel ultra sturdy. I feel like something with a pretty small mesh is important since some of the trichome heads that get knocked off in the grinder are really small and fall right through a larger opening.

For me, the end game is still a full glass bowl, but I still want to make the metal screened versions really good. :rockon:

Yeah I definitely plan to NOT use a carb bowl.

Your Inversion vape would get dirty very quickly if you did use the carb bowl, plus you'll need to removed the heater anyways to stir the flowers. :2c:

It's a rainy day so I figured I might as well Get Inverted! :science: So I might be mixing things up already, but wouldn't the carbed bowl clear all the vapor in the tube, preventing the heater from getting dirty? Think like a smoke pipe where the carb clears the bowl.

It's pulling out the bowl directly to clear a hit, with the heater still attached, which leaves residual vapor in the bowl, hot air rises etc and it drifts up through the heater. It looks like it only condenses on the handle/air inlet though since the heater itself is hot. :science:

Hope everyone is having a good morning :smug:
Probably be in the vape lab all day, lots of research over here to build better vapes! That's what it's all about! :spliff:
 
Top Bottom