Phase3 Vaporizers

[invertedisdead]

I know what the poll results say. But I feel like there are already enough induction / torch vapes in the market today. Dynavaps, thermal accumulator, Dani, 18 mm Killer, Terpcicle, Tempest, FMJ, Anvil and the list go's on for days. However an entry level wireless vape that is not made from titanium or stainless steel there aren't a lot of choices for that type of thing at the moment.

Budget wireless stuff is on my to-do list, but I want to get the ZXXL completed first.
As I'm still trying to sell through this small batch of 50 ZXXL's, there's nothing to really suggest a super strong demand for wireless zirconia gear.

Induction stuff just seems to be where everyone's hanging out these days, some of the fancy heaters cost more than my whole kit so there's just way more of an audience for that category.

Dyna, Dani, TA, Tempest, and Anvil / Tornado is probably some of the most popular platforms in the industry right now.

I think more people would try my zirconia stuff if it was priced lower than titanium, but unless it's actually undercutting on price I'm not sure it will ever stand out in the way I had expected it would.

I think so many people are coming from metal vapes that it's just familiar for them to keep the tradition going.
Plus there's so much more interest in conduction and hybrid stuff now.

For us old heads the dream vape was always "all glass pure convection" but it doesn't seem like that's as desired as it used to be.

 

[lukepat]

@invertedisdead Thinking about ordering the new ZX Bowl for larger load capacity. I saw the new design you were thinking about changing too. Should I wait to order? Will my order be changed if the decision is made to go with the other bowl design instead?

 

[RedZep]

I know what the poll results say. But I feel like there are already enough induction / torch vapes in the market today. Dynavaps, thermal accumulator, Dani, 18 mm Killer, Terpcicle, Tempest, FMJ, Anvil and the list go's on for days. However an entry level wireless vape that is not made from titanium or stainless steel there aren't a lot of choices for that type of thing at the moment.

True, but people who buy these devices usually keep buying more of them. I have a Tempest, but im interested in thr Tornado, and very interested in whatever Phase3 put out.

Where as with desk top ball vapes I think people are less likely to do that, unless it offers something very different.

 

[greenganja]

True, but people who buy these devices usually keep buying more of them. I have a Tempest, but im interested in thr Tornado, and very interested in whatever Phase3 put out.

Where as with desk top ball vapes I think people are less likely to do that, unless it offers something very different.

Good point RedZep. I appreciate your input. I can attest to that rule of people that already having induction/torch devices tend to keep buying more of them. I was that way at one time. I used to get the new dynavap models when they would come out with a new one. Until I landed on the Thermal Accumulator by Phatpiggie. After getting the Thermal Accumulator I don't have a need for anymore torch driven devices. But I sure used to buy them a lot, so I completely understand what you mean about people getting different models when they come out. And my TinyMight 2 while not a torch driven device, for a portable 18650 battery operated device it is very hard to beat, but expensive to purchase.

 

[kimura]

inspired by @IZ_is (thanks!) I became very curious about the wireless experience so I threw together a (very primitive) wireless ZX setup to see what it's about. honestly very impressed. no issues with heat retention, and it does improve the experience. I haven't tried another wireless ball vape but I think the ZX may lend itself especially well to wireless due to the light weight.

as you can see my setup is very rough, but function is good enough that I will definitely be looking to build or buy a more properly finished setup. I guess the sky is the limit with custom setups, but I think there is probably a market for a simple wireless ZX kit

 

[Oden]

inspired by @IZ_is (thanks!) I became very curious about the wireless experience so I threw together a (very primitive) wireless ZX setup to see what it's about. honestly very impressed. no issues with heat retention, and it does improve the experience. I haven't tried another wireless ball vape but I think the ZX may lend itself especially well to wireless due to the light weight.

as you can see my setup is very rough, but function is good enough that I will definitely be looking to build or buy a more properly finished setup. I guess the sky is the limit with custom setups, but I think there is probably a market for a simple wireless ZX kit

Nice

 

[Garybuchanen]

I know what the poll results say. But I feel like there are already enough induction / torch vapes in the market today. Dynavaps, thermal accumulator, Dani, 18 mm Killer, Terpcicle, Tempest, FMJ, Anvil and the list go's on for days. However an entry level wireless vape that is not made from titanium or stainless steel there aren't a lot of choices for that type of thing at the moment.

Wireless is still desktop though. Phase already has zx for that. We need the portable aspect in a new refined way precisely how Ryan will do it.

 

[RedZep]

inspired by @IZ_is (thanks!) I became very curious about the wireless experience so I threw together a (very primitive) wireless ZX setup to see what it's about. honestly very impressed. no issues with heat retention, and it does improve the experience. I haven't tried another wireless ball vape but I think the ZX may lend itself especially well to wireless due to the light weight.

as you can see my setup is very rough, but function is good enough that I will definitely be looking to build or buy a more properly finished setup. I guess the sky is the limit with custom setups, but I think there is probably a market for a simple wireless ZX kit

It's so sleek. Beautiful. I'm going to wait a year or two to see if Phase3 release a wireless one. If not I will do the same thing you have done.

 

[PrematureEvaporation]

I’m definitely in the group that wants to see a portable from inverted. Everyone and their mother is doing a ball vape, and almost everyone who wants one has now got one. Even still, the size of that group pales to a lot of portables. Just look at the difference in post counts in portable and desktop threads. It’s been clear for a while where the numbers and interest are if that’s what you’re chasing.

I mean the ZX is arguably the pinnacle of the ball vape design, nothing else is really better, just different. Yet the fact it’s not made Phase3 take off in a meaningful way shows to me that it just isn’t where the numbers are.

You can argue it’s a lack of marketing but I think word of mouth is more than enough in this industry, if it’s good enough and also has wide appeal it will sell. The vapman stuff hasn’t been mega marketed and look how popular they’ve been over the years. Even the Dani, I’d argue that isn’t heavily marketed. Mostly word of mouth and owner posts on social media pushed it IMO. It even had a bad start with it’s name and people thinking it was a DHgate Dynavap. Still didn’t hold it back. TRWW glass stuff, again it’s not marketed much but it’s cheap and powerful. You see them everywhere on Reddit, and I can even get one locally in the UK near me.

I think desktops and ball vapes in general are just a niche within a niche and nothing will really change that. Portables are catching up on extraction power and narrowing the gap every year on top of this.

DV can crap out a model from two years ago in a new pink colour and you’ll see plenty of owner pics and posts within the week. Although it’s fair to say they’re a very marketing and FOMO driven company which does help them do things like this.

Ultimately, If you want sales, go where the buyers are. I’d certainly be buying a Phase3 butane/IH pen vape. Especially if it does something different. But as we’ve seen, in that particular space you can sell a lot without even doing a lot different. Most people just really like that form factor and enjoy owning different models within it.

That’s my take anyway, hope it doesn’t come across as offensive to anyone. It really isn’t my intention

 

[kimura]

Yeah, idk. I sure as hell don’t know how to bring new products to market or run a company. I’ve learned over the years that a lot of the things I like aren’t all that popular. The DV/TA/Tempest/Anvil stuff is not my favorite. I think I get the appeal, but it’s not really for me. But I can see that it sells.

desktop ball vapes have this reputation for being heavy hitters only for the heaviest users with the highest tolerance, but I don’t really see it that way at all. I don’t even consume all that much on a daily basis. For me the ZX provides the most purity with the greatest of ease and flexibility, and I feel like I have bought it for life. Like an appliance in the best way. Only thing to fail is coil and PID, which are easily replaceable. Yes you can say that about other ball vapes, but they are made of metal and less pure in terms of flavor. And forget qaroma, mine broke for no reason (karma I suppose). Should have just waited for ZX

Sadly I think the form factor of a PID and coil is what scares most people away, but it’s a big part of why I love it, so maybe you shouldn't listen to me at all. Either way Im glad you’re here and I really appreciate what you’ve done. If you disappeared today you’d already be a legend. But I really hope you don’t, and I think you deserve commercial success beyond providing elite gear for a small group of connoisseurs

 

[Oden]

Wireless ball vape is definitely better.
As said above, it is more pleasant to use, and the setup becomes more refined and safer to use.
Recently this is what I have been using and I never want to use a wired vape ball again.
It’s a shame that people don’t take that much interest in their health by choosing zircon that is biocompatible with our bodies.
But it is a fact that people prefer portable vaporizers. It sells more.
I can't wait to see what Ryan has in store for these vape pens !

 

[simba]

Sadly I think the form factor of a PID and coil is what scares most people away, but it’s a big part of why I love it, so maybe you shouldn't listen to me at all

Or some of us don't like exposed coils, not scared just tired of burning holes in my carpet

 

[PrematureEvaporation]

A small request as well-

I see in your outlined plans you were intending to make one of the butane/IH devices WPA only. Please don’t do that.

The tornado is currently like that. There’s people who want to buy it but won’t until it gets a stem, and people sawing up new parts and digging out old ones just to get it on a stem.

If your device can do what the tornado does or better, and also beat them to getting it on a stem it’s kind of an open goal waiting for you to walk the ball into

 

[Grass Yes]

Or some of us don't like exposed coils, not scared just tired of burning holes in my carpet

This is one of the advantages of wireless. The coil stays fixed in the same place.

 

[kimura]

Or some of us don't like exposed coils, not scared just tired of burning holes in my carpet

How did you all ever survive smoking?

Like @Grass Yes said above

 

[PrematureEvaporation]

How did you all ever survive smoking?

Like @Grass Yes said above

People just have different preferences and risk factors they have to evaluate when making their purchase choices. What’s good for you isn’t always good for me, and vice versa.

Wireless ball vapes are a lot like wireless phone chargers IMO. I mean you look at them and think yeah… but also not really. You still need a PID, hot coil and a head with typically even more heat retention, so it’s a similar sort of issue in terms of safety, setup and pack away time, and desk mass. Not something everyone needs to think about but for some of us it’s a big deal.

Safety wise, the only real risk wireless solves is having the hot coil near you when ripping it, and the weight of the coil and cable toppling everything over. It’s still all there on the desk, and there’s still a mega hot vape that takes ages to be a safe temperature relative to something butane and as massy as a TA3. Let alone a Ti tipped DV that is safe for bare skin contact less than 60 seconds after removing the heat source..

For my lifestyle it’s simply no good - I need something I can set up quickly, hit quickly and stow away quickly. I simply cannot have hot, massy stuff just sitting on a desk that I’ve gotta wait another 5-10 minutes to pack away and just as long to set up again later.

I think despite differing tastes and perspective we can all at least agree that these butane pens carry less operational risks and are more convenient for a quick hit than a ball vape. It’s part of why they’re so popular. Hell, I know some DV users that won’t even touch the higher mass pens because they stay at dangerous temperatures for longer.

Just adding another perspective to help others maybe understand why these things are a no deal for some users. Also for inverted to add to his data gathering for his next steps with Phase3. No argument or offence intended

 

[letter never sent]

I would buy a wireless ZX just so I can more easily get to the window to blow out my hit.

I would love a simple wireless station with some sort of protective coil guard. Right now I just keep my ZX head in a coffee mug while I’m using it, but the mug gets quite hot after a while so it’s not my favorite solution. The high price of some of these wireless stations from CH and others is kind of a turnoff, it’s quite expensive to get up and running with one of those setups. Something similar to @kimura’s DIY setup would be perfectly fine, though I would feel much better with a guard as I have a cat.

I would also buy a torch powered vape from Phase3. I love the Anvil and have a Tornado on the way. Though, to be honest, I never feel like pulling out a torch these days with how fast the ZX heats up and how easy it is to get blasted in one perfect hit! I still can’t really get my head around these super expensive induction heaters that often cost more than the device itself.

Most of the time I turn my ZX on for a single hit and then turn it off until I need it again. Works fine for me, it’s ready in a few minutes every time. Then I don’t worry so much about the exposed hot coil.

 

[RedZep]

A small request as well-

I see in your outlined plans you were intending to make one of the butane/IH devices WPA only. Please don’t do that.

The tornado is currently like that. There’s people who want to buy it but won’t until it gets a stem, and people sawing up new parts and digging out old ones just to get it on a stem.

If your device can do what the tornado does or better, and also beat them to getting it on a stem it’s kind of an open goal waiting for you to walk the ball into

Or make it Dynavap/revolve/Tempest stem compatible also.

 

[PrematureEvaporation]

Or make it Dynavap/revolve/Tempest stem compatible also.

Honestly this is probably the best option, tapping into the existing 8mm stem market. Especially if it’s as thermally optimised as you’d expect from inverted. I doubt it’ll need a crazy cooling stem

 

[simba]

This is one of the advantages of wireless. The coil stays fixed in the same place.

Yeah but you can still drop a heated head

How did you all ever survive smoking?

With most of my clothes having hot rock burns in

 

[Grass Yes]

Yeah but you can still drop a heated head

Well sure. Same with vapcaps or the lotus. Dropping a locked torch is much worse

 

[PrematureEvaporation]

Well sure. Same with vapcaps or the lotus. Dropping a locked torch is much worse

The damage is far from the same though. That’s the point being made really. Being a convection heater it’s a lot hotter than a vapcap whilst also staying dangerous for longer

Dropped locked torch is the worst though, holy crap is that a nightmare scenario. Even a little vapman sized one is capable of causing utter chaos in a few seconds IME

I never lock mine for this exact reason

 

[Grass Yes]

That’s the point being made really. Being a convection heater it’s a lot hotter than a vapcap whilst also staying dangerous for longer

I have many wireless vapes. The actual exterior of the housing is not close to the hottest part. The ball are where the heat is stored. Hopefully those don't touch your carpets.

Anyway super off topic now.

 

[PrematureEvaporation]

I have many wireless vapes. The actual exterior of the housing is not close to the hottest part. The ball are where the heat is stored. Hopefully those don't touch your carpets.

Anyway super off topic now.

The housing is still more than hot enough to burn skin or carpets, and will stay in that state for longer than a vapcap style vape. The hottest part of the head isn’t of much relevance in this context, they’re all at dangerous temps and hold it for a long time relative to say a vapcap. It’s just not something that works for me sadly.

Absolutely getting off topic though, I agree.

Circling back to my main point, your use cases and how risky you deem these devices to be will be different to me and both are totally valid perspectives. If inverted wants to grow the brand from being mainly supported by enthusiasts and gain mass appeal both perspectives should be catered for.

So yeah… ball vapes of any form simply don’t work for me, I’m glad they work for you and the many other posters in here though Hopefully in the future there will be a Phase3 device available for us all and we can all support inverted. I’ve been hoping for this guy to bring out a device that speaks to me for a long time, and I’m just excited that might finally be happening

 

[RedZep]

@invertedisdead Speaking of growing the brand, did you ever think of making a TM2 stem? Its sold loads, and users are always picking up new stems. I think making high quality accessories for really popular vapes would raise peoples awareness of P3's existence.