PBW & the Chemistry of Clean

[Enchantre]

I received this link from a good friend today about hazardous cleaning solutions that we often use. The first one listed is one of interest, especially to many of the glass lovers here.

http://static.ewg.org/reports/2012/cleaners_hallofshame/cleaners_hallofshame.pdf

Makes me even happier to have found out about PBW.

Whew... I do not use ANY of those... I've been a tree-hugger for decades, and use very simple cleaning supplies (often just water!) that have no hazards, like, for instance, I use Soap Nuts (yes, they are actual nuts off a tree) for laundry.

I have PBW & some other oxygen cleaner on their way from Amazon.

 

[momofthegoons]

I've been a tree-hugger for decades, and use very simple cleaning supplies (often just water!)

I totally understand. I usually use a steamer for my cleaning. That was the thing that appealed to me most about the PBW; the fact that it was an environmentally safe product.

But I have never heard of Soap Nuts. I'm off to Google them.

 

[Tweek]

... I use Soap Nuts (yes, they are actual nuts off a tree) for laundry.

Please...tell me more

 

[t-dub]

Please...tell me more

ok stop right there, please do not derail this thread . . .

 

[Tweek]

ok stop right there, please do not derail this thread . . .

I really do want to know more about soap nuts.

 

[t-dub]

I really do want to know more about soap nuts.

Then do it in a PM or start a thread please.

 

[Roger D]

Got 5L of pure 99,5% ISO this morning. Totally destroys the resin build ups ! I put some a sprayer bottle, a little bit clears almost everything. The only con is that it is really toxic and nasty chemical stuff. It's gonna be used only when really needed. I used it without the gloves and now my hands have light tissue damage.

DO NOT mix ISO with other chemicals !
I just read it could ignite or react strongly with peroxide based products and lots of other stuff.

 

[t-dub]

DO NOT mix ISO with other chemicals! I just read it could ignite or react strongly with peroxide based products and lots of other stuff.

True dat. The alcohol is a fuel and the oxidizer is obviously, a source of oxygen. This is basically primitive rocket fuel, the Russians love LOX and Kerosene (Devil's Brew) All it would take is for something to spark the reaction . . .

 

[Vaporisateur]

As much as I love PBW, I like to finish my pieces with a quick 99% ISO wash. Then they look stunning.

I was surprised to see that I could also use PBW to clean resin built-up in my small smoking glass pipe (yes, I will go to hell - I do combust sometimes). Very impressed.

 

[Enchantre]

My PBW arrived from Amazon, so here is what I'm starting with. It's not easy to see, but even my Aqua Vape has a haze of resin-ish stuff in it. I'm soaking it, 2 TBLS of PBW in about a gallon of very hot tap water:

Closeup of my poor AquaVape:

Yes, it is a very cheap bong, and it has terrible hazing and resin residue:

Here they are, with my tubing (I have GOT to get some silicone tubing):

"They're soaking in it..." I was amazed at the IMMEDIATE release of a bunch of stuck debris...

So, I'm gonna let this soak most of the day, then after they are all rinsed, I'll take another photo for comparison.

 

[Enchantre]

Not a great shot, but this is the after. Yes, there is still a line in the bong, but eh, next time:

 

[lreindl]

I chickened out of buying a gal. of SG at Home Depot today until I got a little more feedback from the community. Would you say submerging your piece in a bucket full of SG works better than, say, microwaving water for 2mins and filling the piece with a spoonful of PBW?

And do you mix the PBW in the water before filling your piece, or add your water/pbw separately?

 

[t-dub]

SG is expensive to use compared to PBW and its "non-toxic" claims are disputed. It has a fairly low environmental footprint, but its not a bonus like PBW, actually increasing available oxygen in waste water. SG is a great degreaser, however, understanding the chemistry of PBW tells us that it is capable of much, much, more. I mix it in vitro with the hottest water I allow my gas heater to produce (139*F) give it a modest dwell time and then get it the fuck down the drain

 

[Vaporisateur]

How does it affect the labels? Does it kill on contact like the pbw?

I've been cleaning my Bent glass everyday with PBW for the last 15 days with no apparent damage to the label, including a full immersion in a bucket on occasion.

In fact, I must be more careful when using 99%ISO for the final quick wash because this has caused a slight blemish on the black label, kind of like a rainbow trace - but I have to put the label at a certain angle under light to see it so it's not too bad.

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

Bought a tub of PBW today for $9.95. Supported a local brewery/hydro store (they had a sign that said NO MARIJUANA REFERENCES BLAH BLAH hehehe).

Put some in, hottest water out of the tap in, and gave it a nice shake to mix it up. About 5 seconds later the amber resin that the ISO wouldn't get out started to melt off. The resin started to color the bit where the downstem attached to the can and became the gridded inline (as well as the closed end of the inline), it actually looked lightly gold fumed, I kinda liked it buuuut... it had a wee bit of mold, and I'm not having that. Been soaking for 15 minutes or so... will give it another soak tonight and then ISO and rinse it tomorrow morning. Thanks t-dub!!

 

[tepictoton]

any idea how this would be called in europe? been googling a bit but all links showing up go to the states how would one translate this? Sorry if this has come up before, but I followed the thread from the start and only now came back to it after reading the pdf file T-dub provided...

 

[Vaporisateur]

any idea how this would be called in europe? been googling a bit but all links showing up go to the states how would one translate this? Sorry if this has come up before, but I followed the thread from the start and only now came back to it after reading the pdf file T-dub provided...

There is no French name for it, it's made in the USA. Any wine & brewery making store would have an equivalent, perhaps like "Métabisulfite de Potassium" and "Percabolate potassium".

PBW is a mix of Tri-Sodium Phoshate substitute and Percabolate sodium. Roger D had found a good ratio I think, and I believe he's in EU too.

 

[momofthegoons]

I would think that if you can't find PBW locally in Europe that you could look on Amazon. That's where I originally ordered mine from.

 

[Roger D]

I use 55°C hot water, brushes, a flush system. I add percarbonate+calgon and/or (not mixed!) ISO99 when it is too nasty. To keep it neat longer w/o chemicals I use a water distillation system and cranberry powder.

any idea how this would be called in europe? been googling a bit but all links showing up go to the states how would one translate this? Sorry if this has come up before, but I followed the thread from the start and only now came back to it after reading the pdf file T-dub provided...

Percarbonate+calgon (zeolites+polycarboxylates) is the best alternative product I have found to PBW. You just put half of each powder in a container and you're good to go. Beware, it can eat labels.

Always observe the safety rules I listed in my next post

 

[momofthegoons]

I use 55°C hot water, percarbonate+calgon, ISO99, brushes, a flush system, a water distillation system, cranberry powder.

So as you can see... Roger isn't fucking around.

 

[b0]

Thanks for sharing Roger, going to try to found some around here...
If you buy it online, can you send me a pm? Calgon is going to be really easy to found, but no idea about the percarbonate

 

[Roger D]

You're welcome You can buy percarbonate almost anywhere online and you can also find some on ecologic cleaners section in stores. I sent you a PM with all the shops I buy from

Always wear thick gloves if you touch the products. Be aware of any contamination. I would recommend to wear glasses if you don't. I got accidental splash many times. Theses products can cause permanent biologic damage when they are in reactive state, due to the peroxide base.

Rince well. I use citric acid as a finish to eliminate eventual traces of the washing powder

Theses products may all be labelled safe, caution isn't luxury.

Also, when you use ISO same cautions plus not breathing any of it and ventilate wide open.

 

[b0]

I have been testing percarbonate + finish salts and had the problem with the thin film in my piece. I thought it was an excess of soap, at least it is what it seems.

Thinking what to do I added less percarbonate and some vinegar to the mix. My piece is awesome clean now!! I love to have my pieces like new, thanks for the help guys!

 

[Roger D]

Glad you're satisfied
I would recommend the use of acids only after the percarbonate reaction. A basic solution is better for caustic action. That's why I use calgon as an additive, it doesn't fluctuate PH and really gives a boost to the cleaning.

Also, acid mixed with percarbonate reacts and produce nasty gasses. Once I smelled that just a bit and that was feeling very irritant and/or toxic.

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

I'm a believer! $10 and change from the local homebrewers, cleaned my piece right the hell up. Way better than ISO and salt ever did, spots that I thought were doomed to slowly resinate, gone! And I've got enough to last me years maybe? Ha!