Discontinued Loto Labs Lux (formerly Evoke)

[Egzoset]

Salutations,

Not sure if wireless charging is even a possibility with it sitting upside down to charge.

Anything is possible i guess, only i find it much more efficient just to keep the IH driver within that wireless "charger" base and inject/store heat directly into a portable wand, with no batteries, not even electronics and as a bonus it shall only require seconds to "charge" instead!... Though that's only short-term heat storage, batteries must remain an option for long-term scenarios; in which case one has to agree it would just sound natural to expect induction battery charging in an induction vaporizer! After all, why not?! Hummm...

Go figure!

...it doesnt prove they are capable of creating an induction portable.

The approach leaves me puzzled.

 

[t-dub]

Well, I just couldn't resist picking up the LL version as well as the oil/wax . . .

There was also an update today, all stretch goals met . . .

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/...rizer-powered-by-induction/x/3723654#activity

 

[grokit]

^THAT's where I got the idea that the zenhopper would be including the waterpipe adapter

 

[Razor]

I love the look of these. Had to grab one (LL). Whenever I see someone in the mall with a pen vaping huge clouds, ill break out this badass lookin thing (assuming they keep the design) and rightfully claim the title, King of the Douches! lol the guys that walk around here, stare at you tryin to get a response for some reason.

Really hope they get an awesome working product. Or at least have free replacement shipping. Went through 7 ascents before I found one that worked correctly that's 70 bucks for shipping. was worth it in the end at least.

 

[Egzoset]

Salutations Razor,

...trying to get a response...

Relatively to answers i finally found some hint on battery voltage recently:

Harvey BookStore: Loto Labs Initiates Funding Campaign to Bring Worlds First Smart Vaporizer to Market (2014-Jun-18)

« ...with a 3.7V USB rechargeable battery. »​

I also learned about bowl size in the process:

« ...features a 1.5mL proprietary leak-less tank system... »​

Of course that's assuming the article was accurate.

...

Anyway, if current is 2.3 Amperes @ 3.7 Volts then theoretical power would amount to ~8.5 Watts so i'll just suppose ~6 Watts of heat is probably nearly the best we can realistically expect from 1 single battery once all losses are accounted for. This may be sufficient in e-Cig (e-Liquid) applications though i'm confident people familiar with e-Cigs would comment better.

Now there's another simple question on my mind: how well does a 1.5 ml bowl of dry cannabis vaporize using 6 Watts of heat if the bowl itself also happens to be a IH heater element? The same applies for "concentrates". In other words has this been evaluated in a 3.7 Volts "demo"?...

 

[Razor]

I am also wondering this. As you can see in the video of their 'demonstration'' of induction, the dry herb is vaping but at around 9v if I'm not mistaken in the video. This does make it pretty dark, so I would hope that the lower voltage is to compliment the goldilocks system they are trying to achieve.

Of course the size of the final unit compared to the main test has to also be taken into account. Since its going to be smaller than the test in the video (glass tube, large coil) to fit in the unit, my theory is, it won't need as much juice to get the induction sweet spot they are trying to attain.

So far they are boasting a nearly instant heat up. Again, this may be true with the test they ran with the larger parts, but a smaller device may not act similar.

I would really love if the guys at evoke could share some light on this.

I would also like to see this working prototype they speak of. Unless its the video with the glass tube and large coil.

 

[Egzoset]

Salutations Razor,

...pretty dark...

Given the temperature readings i thought it was only natural to burn, knowing no attempt was made to control temperature and hence ultimately prevent combustion in the test tube.

...my theory is, it won't need as much juice to get the induction sweet spot.

As i recall the YouTube recordings published by the Evoke team show they used ~26 Watts on some metal screen, at the wrong voltage... At least i'm confident i could have devised a somewhat better defined experiment, for example:

+


FC: Induction dabber (2014-May-24)​

Maybe 3.7 Volts evaluations will have to wait!

But what remote-country town doesn't have a music store where to find "Pure NickelWound" bass guitar strings?

Plus an automobile parts supplier where to purchase that type of IH tool?...

Well, i heard one could order the MiniDuctor II even from a local Shawinigan store if required! At 700+ cannuck buck$...



Yet for all i know the curie temperature of pure nickel is still going to be 360 °C (680 °F) anyway. So if their proprietary alloy happens to exploit the Curie effect then why not illustrate this with a challenge: turn guitar strings into e-Cig IH elements for the future Evoke portable vaporizer!! Or a dabber, etc...

...if the guys at Evoke could share some light...

Perhaps we must organize a contest where participants produce demo videos themselves!...

 

[Starless]

Salutations Razor,



Given the temperature readings i thought it was only natural to burn, knowing no attempt was made to control temperature and hence ultimately prevent combustion in the test tube.

As i recall the YouTube recordings published by the Evoke team show they used ~26 Watts on some metal screen, at the wrong voltage... At least i'm confident i could have devised a somewhat better defined experiment, for example:

+


FC: Induction dabber (2014-May-24)​

Maybe 3.7 Volts evaluations will have to wait!

But what remote-country town doesn't have a music store where to find "Pure NickelWound" bass guitar strings?

Plus an automobile parts supplier where to purchase that type of IH tool?...

Well, i heard one could order the MiniDuctor II even from a local Shawinigan store if required! At 700+ cannuck buck$...



Yet for all i know the curie temperature of pure nickel is still going to be 360 °C (680 °F) anyway. So if their proprietary alloy happens to exploit the Curie effect then why not illustrate this with a challenge: turn guitar strings into e-Cig IH elements for the future Evoke portable vaporizer!! Or a dabber, etc...



Perhaps we must organize a contest where participants produce demo videos themselves!...

Not sure if it would matter, but wound strings have a steel core. Only the outer wrapping is nickel. Also, flatwound strings would be less abrasive than roundwound if wrapping around a scratchable surface like glass.

 

[RUDE BOY]

There are Much Cheaper ways to get nickle wire then unwrapping a set of brand name Higher cost bass strings.

They do actually sell rolls of nickel wire many places much cheaper per foot then guitar/bass strings.

 

[Egzoset]

Salutations Starless,
Salutations RUDE BOY,

Not sure if it would matter...

Considering i'm personally convinced that induction alone hardly justifies the new challenges related
to a custom-built IH driver i believe it matters almost as much as the combination of
"Skin" and "Curie" effects which we should expect to find at play in Evoke IH vaporizers, eventually!

Sure enough a stainless steel core changes everything, even if it does read "pure nickel"
on the label it seems... Too bad, i was hoping such a simple association could do us any
good, but that's no means to achieve a thermostatic proof-of-concept apparently.

How about "Alloy 52", and/or Pernifer 502, NILO 504, Glass Seal 521... Of which the Curie temperature is said to be 530 °C (986 °F), now i bet that would happen to work great in a heat-exchanger, go wonder!

They do actually sell rolls of nickel wire many places much cheaper...

Anyway lets try to focus on the illustrative function this was intended to serve, a final ready-made
solution will have to wait i'm afraid.

...if wrapping around a scratchable surface like glass.

Instead i'd wrap glass around a pile of Curie metal strings to implement my heat-exhanger, after all i guess 360 °C may be hot enough to power a convective heat generator, on the way to my cannabic bowl where the Curie effect would finally make its contribution, indirectly, yet one that makes a decisive difference, IMO.



One step further in scenario complexity levels i'd prefer to experiment on custom-woven screens using user-specified alloys, of course...

Perhaps an inverted Arizer Solo GLASS wand might provide some basic platform: fill its long tube section with Curie heater material, the short bowl covers well with an HerbalAire v2.1 aluminium crucible and the later fits the metal bowl of a VaporGenie Classic pipe handle real tight... One might even want to call that a bi-energy LAVAwand prototype... Imagination gone wild!!

The real bugger is finding a low-cost electro-magnetic power driver, this peculiar aspect must be a deterrent. Walmart has IH cookers for 100 $ but these are flat, lucky me!

A 3.7 Volts battery-operated IH pipe seems such a remote prospect!...

 

[Razor]

Salutations Razor,



Given the temperature readings i thought it was only natural to burn, knowing no attempt was made to control temperature and hence ultimately prevent combustion in the test tube.

As i recall the YouTube recordings published by the Evoke team show they used ~26 Watts on some metal screen, at the wrong voltage... At least i'm confident i could have devised a somewhat better defined experiment, for example:

+


FC: Induction dabber (2014-May-24)​

Maybe 3.7 Volts evaluations will have to wait!

But what remote-country town doesn't have a music store where to find "Pure NickelWound" bass guitar strings?

Plus an automobile parts supplier where to purchase that type of IH tool?...

Well, i heard one could order the MiniDuctor II even from a local Shawinigan store if required! At 700+ cannuck buck$...



Yet for all i know the curie temperature of pure nickel is still going to be 360 °C (680 °F) anyway. So if their proprietary alloy happens to exploit the Curie effect then why not illustrate this with a challenge: turn guitar strings into e-Cig IH elements for the future Evoke portable vaporizer!! Or a dabber, etc...



Perhaps we must organize a contest where participants produce demo videos themselves!...

Hey. Just to make sure we're watching the same video. Is this what you saw?

You made some really good points that I'd like to hit on.
PTSD with no meds ATM. I have to read a paragraph six or seven times to get it to stick in my memory.
I'll definitely get back ya with the questions I can't remember as soon as I can remember what I forgot. I know it was important lol. Damnit, so annoying.

Definitely want to make sure we're watching the same vids though.


If I were to make my own though, I would most likely just get some wire, mesh screen and make a custom mflb instead of even trying for what these guys are. Mostly because I'm no engineering major, but also because I'm lazy. loll

I remember one! Their retail price is going to be 250 per unit when released. Does it mean they have to use lol

Edit : I remember one!
"The real bugger is finding a low-cost electro-magnetic power driver, this peculiar aspect must be a deterrent. Walmart has IH cookers for 100 $ but these are flat, lucky me''

The units are going to cost 250 (supposedly) upon release. I'm no engineer or programmer, but couldn't the electro magnetic driver be compensated with the integrated Bluetooth software?

 

[Egzoset]

Hi again Razor,

Just to make sure...

It was this part:

FC: Loto Labs Evoke (2014-Jun-16)​

Or more exactly:

YouTube: Loto Labs Induction Vaporizer with Loose Leaf Demo - 1:58 (2014-Jun-13)​

Also, if you're specially curious about induction then i can only imagine how this must have captivated your attention:

FC: Loto Labs Evoke (2014-Jun-10)​

« I'm intrested in seeing induction vaping of flower, I've attempted it with some RF equipment for curing glue. Mixed results, but true RF vaporazation. »​

It certainly had me!

I have to read a paragraph six or seven times...

Well i think it's called read-proofing when performed an instant prior to posting...

...it was important...

I find it most preferable to enter this present forum with a relaxed minset, have no expectations and it shall get back to you when you least expect it!

Some things must come in their own good time.



Or take hand-written notes!!

...mflb... ...I'm lazy.

Without the Curie effect i'm forced to observe there's little other incentives than being free from external delays, power conductors, silicone/teflon gaskets, whatever, etc. If at least the Evoke team didn't push it to the point of integrating the IH driver in their pipe, since i have no problem seeing myself in the veranda while using a two-parts IH device which depends on its separate power-drive base - possibly running on batteries, as a matter of fact!...



And that's where i become wild, because of the idea that there's no need for series-connections between battery cells... It came to me when i hit my head in the toilet room and i saw the flux convector, but then i figured the lack of seriousness if i published my drawings (...), so instead it felt appropriate to multiply the number of poles, but then 6 would be an even number so i went up 1 more step, to 3 IH coils/poles per phase of the flux concentrator. Overall that's 10 coils once a pick-up sensor is accounted for! Add a magnet and it shall almost equate a sonic screw-driver i would say!!

...

In addition, at 3 x 200 KHz (or 600 KHz) 1 heat cycle would last 1.35 micro-second while each battery has a couple more pulses to recover; to top it all a pattern in pulse skipping might possibly induce vibrations via field rotations, etc, even allow self-stirring modulation and - why not! - announce that a cannabic bowl is finally ready, etc!...



Last but not least the switching frequency would generate some weird but audible bio-feedback signal to be monitored on the AM broadcast band i suppose! Too bad we can only chat about it...

Not to mention, by the way, how ironical that is since the Evoke team wanted to "chat", initially.

Their retail price...

Wasn't cost discussed before a concept started being minimally defined? Sorry but my impression isn't favorable about the Evoke ever being the 1st of something, eventually...

Lets hope i'm mistaking.

...couldn't the electro magnetic driver be compensated with the integrated Bluetooth software?

If this is related to heat control then i'd simply point out that after i've climbed the VG learning curve for a long while i'd be more than willing to try a fixed-temperature IH wand (or pipe). Perhaps exploiting a similar trick if i must:

YouTube: Electromagnetic induction aluminum foil bottle cap sealing gasket heat sealing machine (2012-Oct-7)​

Anyway, correct me if i'm wrong but that looks pretty much like some hacked IH cooker plate to me and those do offer power control... So why not let others do the modding and avoid High-Voltage risks!

In any case i'd keep Curie temperature(s) below the combustion point, that would be a good start! Power-dimmer options can fill the gap later i'm sure.

 

[Egzoset]

ADDENDUM



Salutations,

I just found this picture which looks pretty much like what i got in mind:

eLabz: Driving a three-phase brushless DC motor with Arduino – Part 1. Theory (2011-Oct-30)​

Except the shielding shell would have a large-aperture top opening (where some metal "washer" component is visible) to accomodate a Curie-effect IH capsule, standing right where we see a vertical axial rod and concentric rings on the main assembly. Its 9 bobin elements are essential though i'd expect many less coil turns to be necessary; and also i'd like having a secondary coil collecting a fraction of the overall power to implement a central power supply with articifially "intelligent" battery management features...

The Printed-Circuit Board might ideally support tank capacitors, around a main pick-up sensor coil (on the external face) and even with enough space left available for power semiconductors with their gate drivers, etc., whatever. In conclusion my ideal kind of flux concentrator already exists - and has been improved through the whole floppy-disk era! But would it prove adequate for the present application? How about working frequency, etc?...

At least i figure it would fit conveniently over a 3-cell battery pack - the one hypothetical type i mentioned before that keeps going on when 1 cell goes depleted of charge, then a second (though last) one... With a considerable loss of velocity in pre-heating times near the end, naturally, yet as a beneficial trade-off since that's better than a dead unit anyway.

Ah, and i'll never insist too much about a MANUAL-OVERRIDE item! Who knows...

 

[Adobewan]

Great tune in the BG tune, if anyone is interested:
In Between Lines by The Album Leaf

Modnote: Edited to fix quote tags.

 

[Egzoset]

Salutations AdobeWan,

Egzoset said: ↑...

About « Magnetic Coupling/Shielding » (i presume), as illustrated by a YouTube video referenced in my post of July 22nd... Lets suggest the reader a quick visual browing session:

Google Images: Fluxtrol AlphaForm​

So it seems like some magnetic flux concentrating product such as the Fluxtrol AlphaForm paste can be expected to be "ductile" below 60°C (140 °F), then it starts to harden above this temperature; proper curing requires 1 hour @ 120 °C (250 °F) then another hour @ 190 °C (375 °F) and i assume a kitchen oven is OKay. The manufacturer's web site provides information such as Field Strength (A/cm), Saturation Flux Density (Gs), Permeability, etc... IMO that should clear the matter of flux concentration prototypes, although i must also confess my own reflexion is somewhat stimulated by "3-Phase Power" resources applied to the present context, with "Low Drop-Out" battery applications in mind, etc.

Basically i'd reason that searching through similar topics it should be possible to help define a perspective of things to expect, like what level of power conversion can be achieved around 1.8 ~ 2.7 Volts of input supply? For example...

Anyway little time/effort would be needed at a preliminary prototyping stage: paste or ready-made, a flux concentrator would be easily included - if/when new tests based on the previous setups are ever scheduled again, euh...

It might be helpful just to compare the results, etc. But i'd find premature to even ask how much is too much nonetheless! Whatever, etc.



Well, as for proofs-of-concept lets try to remain realistic.

 

[grokit]

Indiegogo update:

"We want to let you know that ‘Evoke - The First Smart Vaporizer Powered By Induction’ has completed funding. They raised $225,968.00 including your contribution!

The campaign team should be in touch shortly with an update on the campaign and to fulfill any perks you have requested. Let your friends know that you helped make this project happen!

As always, if you have any questions about your contribution or perks, ask Neeraj Bhardwaj (the campaign owner), or check out our Customer Happiness Center."

 

[t-dub]

The relevant part of today's Indiegogo update:

We can say some interesting developments:

- We're developing a display that will double has the Evoke's power button; no word yet on if it'll be LED or OLED, but we listened to your feedback and we agree a display is important to have

- We've been fine tuning the loading method of the Evoke to ensure the most painless method of loading and cleaning

- The overall design of the Evoke is progressing and we don't want to spoil it, but it'll look much better than our initial design!

- We're meeting with suppliers to discuss supply contracts

Our target date for Evoke shipments is early next year 2015. Before shipping, we'll be reaching out to everyone if they need any address changes from what we have on record. We'll keep you updated on further developments!

 

[Razor]

Do I get royalties for giving that idea?

 

[Egzoset]

Salutations Razor,

Do I get royalties for giving that idea?

So, there are persons who do have sufficient confidence in this project after all!

 

[grokit]

I'm starting to have some confidence, but I will still be surprised if they actually deliver in "early 2015"

 

[Egzoset]

Salutations GroKit,

I'm starting to have some confidence...

That could be a result of having privileged information which won't be echoed here.

...but I will still be surprised if they actually deliver...

Well this is what i can still read on the Evoke web site so far:

« The Evoke is the first smart vape powered by induction. »​

Maybe the "smart" thing is confusing me or they need a reality check, at least i can tell the being "1st" aspect is challenged because i've notice there's competition finally showing up and that one sounds ready for business:

FC: Induction dabber (2014-Sep-5)​

And if i'm not mistaking that's a version "III" (read "3" as in 3rd IH smart vaporizer release)!

...

...in "early 2015"...

It seems to me the more time it will require the harder it could be to explain how other IH vaporizers fail being "smart" exactly - not to mention the first!

IMHO this might even risk to sound somewhat "fishy" on the long run, but that's me...

So i'm assuming after this it's now got to be sooner than later, though i feel it's just a bit too little too late anyway: time to update/revise those advertising slogans i guess!

 

[Egzoset]

-=* UPDATE *=-

FC: Induction dabber (2014-Sep-10)​

IMHO, the readers following this present thread will most certainly want to check for themselves what LazyLathe wrote in the one (linked above), just a couple days ago!... Personally, i feel confident that this could lead to some interesting developments. One way or another.

 

[t-dub]

Update and a new website . . .

It's been a quiet time for us but rest assured there is a lot of progress being made on the Evoke. Currently we're waiting on our development team, Focus PDM, to create a working prototype of the Evoke. When this is completed we'll provide lots of details on the insides of the working model. We'll also provide pictures and videos of it in action! This is one of the biggest hurdles we have to make the Evoke a reality which is why it has taken so long.

Of course we don't want to leave you guys with nothing so one update we have is a brand new website! Visit Loto Labs to check it out. Below is a quick summary of some of the new content on the site:

- Loto Labs blog that currently features an article by our lead designer, Gabe Brown, on the materials chosen for the Evoke

- Media gallery that has hi-res images of the Evoke as well as never before seen sketches of various ideas for the final version of the vaporizer

- We'll be using this website for our future e-commerce site that will have the Evoke along with all accessories and future products

That's all for now. Thanks for being patient with us and we'll be sure to keep you updated on the status of the Evoke!

http://www.lotolabs.com/

 

[stickstones]

I was looking at these induction garage videos with a friend when it occurred to him that while using induction heating in this way it appears that the actual vaporization process is occurring via conduction with the mesh contacting the herb. What do you guys think?

In the end, induction is just another way to heat the herb chamber, but how we vaporize with that heat is another matter altogether. I was thinking if they heated the mesh further up the air path so that it was heating drawn air over your herbs positioned later in the air path we could have convection here instead. THAT would get me excited...instant convection heating while on the go with a unit that doesn't get hot!

 

[Egzoset]

Salutations T-Dub,
Salutations StickStones,

It's been a quiet time for us but rest assured there is a lot of progress being made on the Evoke.

That's all the FC folks can wish for the Evoke, personally my hope is to be pleasantly surprized while having a few good reads.

...these induction garage videos...

To me it felt like the table was about to be set and no service ever arrived despite the invitation.

What do you guys think?

I yet have to see a prototype showing Evoke's solution to control integration.

...induction is just another way to heat...

We've seen in another thread (mentioned previously) how the full potential of Induction Heat may easily end up being over-looked - and even somewhat wasted, if not ruined, actually. By chance there are potentially excellent implementations to seek inspiration from:

FC: L'Induction Magnétique au service du Vaporisme (2014-Sep-29)​

It's no IH vaporizer but there's a 6 mm (Dia.) x 36 mm (L.) quartz-glass vial inside containing the sample, wrapped by a Curie alloy sheet to be exact... That's some perspective i believe to promote a more nuanced aproach in comparison to brute-force e-Nails (and unsatisfactory planning i suspect)...

Too bad the JCi-22/55 is aimed at laboratories, but how about its "PyroFoils" by the way?!...

Are these jetable or could this be put to good use in an IH vape on a permanent basis??

As far as i'm concerned i wish Evoke's next "demo" could combine a NoFlame ready-made IH dental-wax driver with such thermostatic alloys, just for a change of beat!

...but how we vaporize with that heat is another matter altogether. I was thinking if they heated the mesh further up the air path so that it was heating drawn air over your herbs positioned later in the air path we could have convection here instead. THAT would get me excited...

There will be many members to favour this reasonable proposal so i guess we can only share each other's appetite for something like that!!



Also, using a Curie alloy this would imply the user gets On-Demand thermostatic heat at the point of contact, which is unlike conventional conduction as we know it. Now if the radiating screen could as well support convection through a pair of quartz-glass layers forming a heat-exchanger then that should become really stimulating i figure!

...instant convection heating while on the go with a unit that doesn't get hot!

That's how i see it myself and the vision clarifies after checking some numbers from a manufacturer as JAI...

In any case i'd like to see a 3.7 or 4.2 Volts prototype with some form of control added.