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Liger banger V2.0

herbivore21

Well-Known Member
(( a Lil over medicated I apologize a head of time if my line of thought confusespecially anyone))
if i may ask you the same line of questions . Because am looking at photodo not see what what you say your seeing ingredients how would the Liger belike to suckered the dab through. The insert dish has a wall that's a quarter inch tall the other is about and eighth of an inch tall but the bottom is concave so from bottom dish it's 5/16 give or take 1/32. How much liquid does around 14mm round dish that deep hold... a I've done .6 party dabs and when using the deeper cup side of the insert ((which is why there are two options for the cup size one each insert . And two things about the Liger compared to halo makes me have to assume the halo is far more likely to have liquids sucked into the vapor path. The first is the air flow intake being level or below the dab dish while the liger like all banger the air path it above the level of the liquids in the dish gravity is a a pretty strong force. The next being that insert almost entirely heated with in 5 degrees Fahrenheit ((using a calibtated extech dual thermocouple with temperature differential logger)) so dabs won't really try and run up the sides. That's even with quartz inserts... hated the quartz halos dabs always up the walls ....leaving a dark rim .... I understand that SiCs thermal properties should fix this but fixs the issue and is now available...but what if I was someone whon simply prefer the option of quartz. ....never liked the quartz dish from dnail
You haven't accounted for bumping man. I'll come back later since it is an inopportune time for me to type long replies right now, no time to fully respond :)

Also you got the timing wrong bro, the quartz halo came out after the SiC halo. I have had a SiC nail for a 6 months ago or so.


Nice to see the thread coming alive. Still waiting for news for customs.

Not to derail the thread to much buy might be interesting: Anybody has the two to compare, d-nail sic VS cca710.com sic? Maybe do a side by side?

I'll actually potentially volunteer to do this depending on price, I would need to get a barrel coil to do so :)
 
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tepictoton

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Easiest way to find how big of a hole in the pocket it will make is send a mail to Josh at CCA710.com

I am sure he will be glad to get you on the team...

the barrel coil might be something to talk to @VoltageKeeper about...

Let them comparisons come in, so we can figure out all pro´s and con´s, and develop this even ´furthur´ hihi

Speaking of which...16 versus 20mm...any remarks?

For me it is clear the 20mm will probably win due to bigger surface and thermal mass? But, there must be times when the 16mm would be a better choice, or no?
 

loadthetrenchdawg

Well-Known Member
Easiest way to find how big of a hole in the pocket it will make is send a mail to Josh at CCA710.com

Looking at the prices listed on the aforementioned website seems like it would be quicker:shrug:


Speaking of which...16 versus 20mm...any remarks?

For me it is clear the 20mm will probably win due to bigger surface and thermal mass? But, there must be times when the 16mm would be a better choice, or no?

I agree with 20mm>16mm. I could possibly see 16mm being better for people who take smaller dabs that would never take advantage of the 20mm dish. I imagine 16mm holds a more consistent temperature throughout the dish. Can't think of any other advantage to 16mm. :2c:
 
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herbivore21

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Easiest way to find how big of a hole in the pocket it will make is send a mail to Josh at CCA710.com

I am sure he will be glad to get you on the team...

the barrel coil might be something to talk to @VoltageKeeper about...

Let them comparisons come in, so we can figure out all pro´s and con´s, and develop this even ´furthur´ hihi

Speaking of which...16 versus 20mm...any remarks?

For me it is clear the 20mm will probably win due to bigger surface and thermal mass? But, there must be times when the 16mm would be a better choice, or no?
Since I used dnail controllers, I'll just get them to hook me up with a 20mm extended life coil, I'll check with Josh when I get a chance to speak to him and find out about costs etc and see that they will fit the dnail 20mm first :)

I'd really love to see cost permitting for the nail if some other medical users I know would like to test each SiC offering with their own medicine/rigs actually. It's good to get a few opinions :) and have some rigor where reasonable. I might even do it double blind if I can recruit enough participants. I cannot do video unfortunately :(

Might be able to get shots of some different rigs that are used though, there might be some very pretty ones indeed - this could be a lot of fun!
 

Gonzo_da_wind

Well-Known Member
You haven't accounted for bumping man. I'll come back later since it is an inopportune time for me to type long replies right now, no time to fully respond :)

Also you got the timing wrong bro, the quartz halo came out after the SiC halo. I have had a SiC nail1for a 6 months ago or so.




I'll actually potentially volunteer to do this depending on price, I would need to get a barrel coil to do so :)
Ok so maybe I'm confused but do you mean bumping as it is in the dictionary? OR are you using it a an aronym for something. Yea but I got my a quartz halo before getting the SiC halo as well as quartz a material was being used previous to SiC. Regardless m
y mental timeliness wasn't really a vital detail like. I have used to have0 [lof both SiC halo from Dnail and liger SiC insert from CcA. And as far as a side by side test.... put it this way; I said "used" to have it because I sold the halo
 
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matthend

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i am also curious about 'bumping' Would this be the heated dab being sucked through the air path and into the rig while it is still boiling away in liquid form? This may be exactly what is happening to me with the 710 whip and dab cap, as I get reclaim occurring in clumps directly below the nail in my d-020. I had never heard this term before
 

tepictoton

Well-Known Member
Thank you for the added info.

Let´s see what comes up down the dry herb pipeline with this one. I have been thinking a lot about just trying to make a basket to put the herb in, drop it in the vapor bucket and see what would happen. But for now have not been able to come even close to making a basket that would fit (it would have to be about the same size as the inserts I guess). Sure makes me wonder what Josh will come up with.

And yes, I am also sure any day now one might come up with a completely different way of consuming these extracts. It is painfully clear that the coil that is being used now is not very sufficient. I mean, more than half of the heat is probably lost to the outside of the coil, not to mention in the process of transferring that heat to whatever surface you want to get up to temp. Then again, it might be one of those things where keeping it simple is the way to go for now? Makes me wonder why we do not see any revolutionary ideas in relation to the coil/pid option...

But for now, I guess, the clear options as to what we can attach our coils to is the topic.

For me, the thing that has me most excited in relation to the future of the Liger V2.0 is the possible dry herb option...

Oh, and please, if you can, post more pictures of these beauties. I would love to see more different colors in real life set-ups...

Edit: as for bumping, I guess that is what is being meant, the dab kind of jumping of your heated surface, and in this case, being sucked into the air channel. I must say I have not noticed this myself with the Liger V2.0 yet. Now that I think about it, I actually am getting a lot less reclaim than I was used to with my old nail/torch set-up. But that might also be due to going from torch to enail? I think the Liger V2.0 has something to do with it too...
 
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loadthetrenchdawg

Well-Known Member
I actually am getting a lot less reclaim than I was used to with my old nail/torch set-up. But that might also be due to going from torch to enail? I think the Liger V2.0 has something to do with it too...

I noticed this as well! I switched from dome/torch to enail same as you though. Not sure if enails create less reclaim or of the ligers design is keeping it out of my rig. I would say its the Liger for sure, but when I break it down to clean it its nearly spotless:shrug:. I was cleaning my dome setup every couple of days out of pure necessity. The joint would be so caked with reclaim it would get hard pulling the dome on and off.

One of the deciding factors in my choosing the Liger over other options was banger design. I'm really not a fan of drop downs. I'm very glad in retrospect. No need to add to the air path with a drop down. Reclaim is under control as well as heat.
 
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herbivore21

Well-Known Member
(( a Lil over medicated I apologize a head of time if my line of thought confusespecially anyone))
if i may ask you the same line of questions . Because am looking at photodo not see what what you say your seeing ingredients how would the Liger belike to suckered the dab through. The insert dish has a wall that's a quarter inch tall the other is about and eighth of an inch tall but the bottom is concave so from bottom dish it's 5/16 give or take 1/32. How much liquid does around 14mm round dish that deep hold... a I've done .6 party dabs and when using the deeper cup side of the insert ((which is why there are two options for the cup size one each insert . And two things about the Liger compared to halo makes me have to assume the halo is far more likely to have liquids sucked into the vapor path. The first is the air flow intake being level or below the dab dish while the liger like all banger the air path it above the level of the liquids in the dish gravity is a a pretty strong force. The next being that insert almost entirely heated with in 5 degrees Fahrenheit ((using a calibtated extech dual thermocouple with temperature differential logger)) so dabs won't really try and run up the sides. That's even with quartz inserts... hated the quartz halos dabs always up the walls ....leaving a dark rim .... I understand that SiCs thermal properties should fix this but fixs the issue and is now available...but what if I was someone whon simply prefer the option of quartz. ....never liked the quartz dish from dnail
All of your mention of quartz here was not vital dude, it was irrelevant to my question and a straw man argument in response to it. I was never discussing quartz of any kind, I never use quartz and the shortcomings you mention about quartz halos are noted, by yours truly, many times in various threads here.

On that topic, if you dab on the quartz halo wik surface towards the inside of the dish you should never have dabs come up the side (this stopped that issue for me, not that I use the quartz halo much/at all - sapphire is just 3489745734957349 x better at the same job). This dab up the side of quartz halo effect will also be effected by how hard your draw is and what shape of airpath/perc you are using. Of course, SiC and Sapphire are better materials to avoid this problem and neither of us use quartz halos for this reason. Still, as I said above this is immaterial to my points raised.

Now for those who don't know: Bumping is chemistry lingo describing the reaction caused by the rapid superheating of the dab touching the nail surface that has not changed phase into the gaseous phase due to a lack of a nucleation point. When a cell of this does change phase (or boil), it does so completely an rapidly with a mini-explosive expansion causing a bursting, splashing bubble to pop up and splash inside the nail.

I agree that the dish might be big enough to put your dab into as it melts (but that .6 party dab must have filled that cup right up!), but I'm not talking about liquid storage volume of the dish here. I am talking about when bumping takes place at areas of the dish and especially combined with the spiralling airflow that it seems the storm cap gives, (correct me if I'm wrong, but regardless, convective flow of any kind in the nail is going to cause airflow more violent spurting when bumping occurs!) will cause an airflow conducive to making any loose spatter such as from a mini explosion from bumping spurt up further still!

I understand that most of you guys would not be familiar with this phenomenon, but Gonzo, seeing your talk of designing nails with Josh, I thought you might have heard of it (still though, no shame in not understanding chemistry if you are not a chemist!).

Regardless, the SiC halo does not cause oil to suck up the inlet because it is a very, very large SiC surface will all the heat distribution that goes with it. The dish is deeper (1/3 of an inch + distance to the top of the locking nut which is the top of the inlet (higher than the sides of the halo go). Due to super efficient flat coil heat distribution to the dabbing surface of the SiC itself, you get quick boiling even at lower temps by touching the dab onto it. Any bumping will have to jump up higher to get in the inlet tube but of course, there is much more dish to spread the dab around so there is less chance of a larger volume of dab in a given spot and hence potential for larger spurts of oil to shoot up. For the dab to get up through the hole you would have to accidentally dab on the titanium retaining lug (and if you're that vaked that you can't dab on the gargantuan SiC target, then maybe it's time for a break lol).

More broadly than this discussion of the minutia of each SiC nail though, you have not said anything in your post that suggests the SiC insert x liger banger to be leaps and bounds better than a SiC halo (although I note the person who said this has not replied) which was the topic at hand. You have mentioned characteristics of the SiC insert without highlighting any clear or specific advantage over the SiC halo, with comments on the quartz halo thrown into the mix. Your comments on halos are almost exclusively about quartz there.
 
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tepictoton

Well-Known Member
I think one thing that makes a big difference between SiC and Liger versus SiC Halo is the way the dab is applied?

With my Liger and Storm cap I changed my way of ´dabbing´ and started calling it capping(pronounced with a ´b´). I have my dab loaded on the tip of the storm cap and simply cap it on the vapor bucket. This way my dab is not thrown onto a hot surface as such, but first is warmed up a bit before it drips onto the hot surface.

I might be wrong in assuming this must make a difference, but my feeling tells me it does...maybe bumping is minimized this way?

On a side note, got a message today from customs informing me they could not open a JPG file they asked me to send them, redirecting me once again to their website. When you go to their website it only lets you enter the part I need to get to when you have a DNI or NIE number from Spain, which I do not have...really hopes this gets to a positive end soon...
 

herbivore21

Well-Known Member
I think one thing that makes a big difference between SiC and Liger versus SiC Halo is the way the dab is applied?

With my Liger and Storm cap I changed my way of ´dabbing´ and started calling it capping(pronounced with a ´b´). I have my dab loaded on the tip of the storm cap and simply cap it on the vapor bucket. This way my dab is not thrown onto a hot surface as such, but first is warmed up a bit before it drips onto the hot surface.

I might be wrong in assuming this must make a difference, but my feeling tells me it does...maybe bumping is minimized this way?

On a side note, got a message today from customs informing me they could not open a JPG file they asked me to send them, redirecting me once again to their website. When you go to their website it only lets you enter the part I need to get to when you have a DNI or NIE number from Spain, which I do not have...really hopes this gets to a positive end soon...
No, bumping would not be mitigated in this way unfortunately. Bumping is a very tricky process to control for without the use of interventions (typically used in a lab context rather than dabbing) that would not be appropriate for our application.

I have noted the cap design, and thoroughly looked into the liger bangers, I make it my business to understand all of the nails out there as a concentrate predominate medical user.

I believe domeless.com did something similar a while back. Pukinbeagle have also had a few designs where the dabber is in the cap and you dab as you cap. Not a bad idea if done carefully/with the right materials, but not a design I'd use with anything less hard than the titanium dabber for concern that if the dabber turns too far down the thread protruding too far into the nail; capping could be the equivalent of forcing a flat inclined titanium plane (flat dabber tip) onto a quartz surface - yikes (this would definitely be far less of a potential problem with SiC though :) )!

This design does prevent you from spreading your dab around the dish too, which will interfere with even boiling of the dab. This will to some extent be made up for with convective airflow though.

Damn man, I hope that you can get your package soon, it sounds like they've really jerked you around! It is always saddening to hear of someone being held back from using their new dabbing toys!!!
 
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loadthetrenchdawg

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No, bumping would not be mitigated in this way unfortunately. Bumping is a very tricky process to control for without the use of interventions (typically used in a lab context rather than dabbing) that would not be appropriate for our application.

I have noted the cap design, and thoroughly looked into the liger bangers, I make it my business to understand all of the nails out there as a concentrate predominate medical user.

I believe domeless.com did something similar a while back. Pukinbeagle have also had a few designs where the dabber is in the cap and you dab as you cap. Not a bad idea if done carefully/with the right materials, but not a design I'd use with anything less hard than the titanium dabber for concern that if the dabber turns too far down the thread protruding too far into the nail; capping could be the equivalent of forcing a flat inclined titanium plane (flat dabber tip) onto a quartz surface - yikes (this would definitely be far less of a potential problem with SiC though :) )!

This design does prevent you from spreading your dab around the dish too, which will interfere with even boiling of the dab. This will to some extent be made up for with convective airflow though.

Damn man, I hope that you can get your package soon, it sounds like they've really jerked you around! It is always saddening to hear of someone being held back from using their new dabbing toys!!!

I would imagine the risk of the dabber hitting the dish would only be problematic with first time setup? Even then only if you rushed threading the dabber. I'm working on placing my order for both versions of the cap atm. Will be able to speak more on this soon.

As for spreading the dab around the dish, I wonder about that also. I know the storm cap has more airflow than your average cap, but I wonder if that's enough for a full spread. I believe I have read that the machined surface of the Dnail quartz halos makes spreading a non issue. I imagine cca's machined surfaces are meant to accomplish the same feat:shrug:. Seems the Liger SIC is machined to be more conducive to spreading. Maybe someone else can confirm this. I've only seen it in the post @herb forester made. Wonder if the quartz insert is also machined in a similar fashion? Bottom of the banger itself definitely seems to be machine cut to be more conducive to spreading. I can say it spreads better than any traditional banger I've tried, but that is most likely due to more even heating inherent with an enail. I'm going to toss CCA an email and see what the deal is.

Looking at the Liger in front of me, I can't imagine how large of a dab one would have to do to bubble into the intake on the large side of the dish:hmm:. Of course I learned a long time ago my idea of a large dab can be very, very different than someone else:rofl:. Although the shallow side of the inserts seems counter productive more than anything. I would much rather have a large chunk of SIC instead to help with insomnia busters :brow:. I've heard this is in the works.


On another note, I'm also wondering if bumping and wall running are not only less of an issue with the Liger, but possibly preferable. The conduction heavy design of the inserts make the walls of the insert a viable, if not preferable area for the oil to spread, unlike moat style nails.
 

herbivore21

Well-Known Member
Looking at the Liger in front of me, I can't imagine how large of a dab one would have to do to bubble into the intake on the large side of the dish:hmm:. Of course I learned a long time ago my idea of a large dab can be very, very different than someone else:rofl:. Although the shallow side of the inserts seems counter productive more than anything. I would much rather have a large chunk of SIC instead to help with insomnia busters :brow:. I've heard this is in the works.


On another note, I'm also wondering if bumping and wall running are not only less of an issue with the Liger, but possibly preferable. The conduction heavy design of the inserts make the walls of the insert a viable, if not preferable area for the oil to spread, unlike moat style nails.
I agree that if one is always careful adjusting the inner thread on the dabber so it does not hit the dish, it should be good. Also with SiC should not be a huge issue.

You're right on the large dabbing surface being ideal for insomnia busters too man, definitely works for me :D I would love to hear if the Liger SiC is machined for wicking directly from Josh when I get a chance to speak to him.

The shallow side of that insert is IMO definitely clearly not deep enough to account for the violent boiling going on when we dab though. I agree.

There is some syntactic ambiguity in that last paragraph so I am not sure exactly what you are saying there (or I am too medicated).

I can say that bumping in the liger inserts is an issue primarily because even if oil doesn't bump/get drawn by convective air stream into the intake, it is much more likely to result in much less tasty conduction vaporization on the outer ti surfaces as well. I can definitely forsee especially using the shallow side of the insert that getting errl into the intake is likely on comparatively larger dabs.
 

loadthetrenchdawg

Well-Known Member
There is some syntactic ambiguity in that last paragraph so I am not sure exactly what you are saying there (or I am too medicated).

I can say that bumping in the liger inserts is an issue primarily because even if oil doesn't bump/get drawn by convective air stream into the intake, it is much more likely to result in much less tasty conduction vaporization on the outer ti surfaces as well. I can definitely forsee especially using the shallow side of the insert that getting errl into the intake is likely on comparatively larger dabs.

I'll try to be more clear, but first I'd like to address your last paragraph. This all goes back to how large you dab. If I dunk over gram into even the D-Nails SIC dish its most likely going to overflow onto the titanium retaining nut or into the intake. You can't really say the Liger inserts are problematic when it comes to bumping anymore than I can say it isn't. Its relative to the user's need. Someone who wants to be able to take a 1g+ dab is going to call the Dnails SIC dish problematic for bumping on "comparatively larger dabs". All relative.

Now I'll try to clear up the meaning behind my last paragraph. The design of the liger and its inserts relies on conduction heating. First heating the body, then the insert. I will compare the design to the Quartz Ebangers that are becoming more popular. The titanium shell that the coil wraps around instead of the Quartz dish helps heat the dish more evenly(and of course stop the coil from contracting around the quartz). Now, imagine the Liger Body as the titanium shell. The insert being the banger. This type of design coupled with a quartz insert would cause the walls of the dish to be as evenly heated as the bottom. If not more so. This line of thought led me to questioning if material running up the walls of the insert is a problem. Or possibly beneficial.


Also, "syntactic ambiguity" gave me horrible flash backs of dating Freshman English Majors:lol::rofl:
My SO tells me I have a better mastery of some programming languages than English! Fracking comas, how do they work? :hmm::hmm::lol:
 

Gonzo_da_wind

Well-Known Member
All of your mention of quartz here was not vital dude, it was irrelevant to my question and a straw man argument in response to it. I was never discussing quartz of any kind, I never use quartz and the shortcomings you mention about quartz halos are noted, by yours truly, many times in various threads here.

On that topic, if you dab on the quartz halo wik surface towards the inside of the dish you should never have dabs come up the side (this stopped that issue for me, not that I use the quartz halo much/at all - sapphire is just 3489745734957349 x better at the same job). This dab up the side of quartz halo effect will also be effected by how hard your draw is and what shape of airpath/perc you are using.

Now for those who don't know: Bumping is chemistry lingo describing the reaction caused by the rapid superheating of the dab touching the nail surface that has not changed phase into the gaseous phase due to a lack of a nucleation point. When a cell of this does change phase (or boil), it does so completely an rapidly with a mini-explosive expansion causing a bursting, splashing bubble to pop up and splash inside the nail.

I agree that the dish might be big enough to put your dab into as it melts (but that .6 party dab must have filled that cup right up!), but I'm not talking about liquid storage volume of the dish here. I am talking about when bumping takes place at areas of the dish and especially combined with the spiralling airflow that it seems the storm cap gives, (correct me if I'm wrong, but regardless, convective flow of any kind in the nail is going to cause airflow more violent spurting when bumping occurs!) will cause an airflow conducive to making any loose spatter such as from a mini explosion from bumping spurt up further still!

I understand that most of you guys would not be familiar with this phenomenon, but Gonzo, seeing your talk of designing nails with Josh, I thought you might have heard of it (still though, no shame in not understanding chemistry if you are not a chemist!).

Regardless, the SiC halo does not cause oil to suck up the inlet because it is a very, very large SiC surface will all the heat distribution that goes with it. The dish is deeper (1/3 of an inch + distance to the top of the locking nut which is the top of the inlet (higher than the sides of the halo go). Due to super efficient flat coil heat distribution to the dabbing surface of the SiC itself, you get quick boiling even at lower temps by touching the dab onto it. Any bumping will have to jump up higher to get in the inlet tube but of course, there is much more dish to spread the dab around so there is less chance of a larger volume of dab in a given spot and hence potential for larger spurts of oil to shoot up. For the dab to get up through the hole you would have to accidentally dab on the titanium retaining lug (and if you're that vaked that you can't dab on the gargantuan SiC target, then maybe it's time for a break lol).

More broadly than this discussion of the minutia of each SiC nail though, you have not said anything in your post that suggests the SiC insert x liger banger to be leaps and bounds better than a SiC halo (although I note the person who said this has not replied) which was the topic at hand. You have mentioned characteristics of the SiC insert without highlighting any clear or specific advantage over the SiC halo, with comments on the quartz halo thrown into the mix. Your comments on halos are almost exclusively about quartz there.
ha chemistry "lingo" I might have known what you were talking about if you had used properly terminology I'don't be more likely to understand which type of heat transfer boiling you're trying to describe. TRANSITION BOILING is the closest type of heat transfer boiling to what you are describing but seem to be saying previously this type of physical phenomenon happen when you are low temps dabbing?but the amount of energy need to cause the such a lsudden violent change would need pretty high temperatureschool involve so the heat transfer was would gve the atoms enough energy to occur but at the same time the the mention of the lack of nucleation point infers a boiling range some where within temps where the surface is at such a heat that the liquid becomes a vapor before it able to make contact with ther heated surface. But once again these are separated types of boiling with individual reactions properties. ....if you'd like to talk chemistry message me. But I have never said I was a chemist. I Never even said anything about my education or profession. And I am sorry
that this is the Liger V2 thread and wasn't necessarily commenting on the quartz halo, but as was comparing the Ligers different available dabbing surfaces with closest available Halo style nails from Dnail.
 
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herbivore21

Well-Known Member
ha chemistry "lingo" I might have known what you were talking about if you had used properly terminology I'don't be more likely to understand which type of heat transfer boiling you're trying to describe. TRANSITION BOILING is the closest type of heat transfer boiling to what you are describing but seem to be saying previously this type of physical phenomenon happen when you are low temps dabbing?but the amount of energy need to cause the such a lsudden violent change would need pretty high temperatureschool involve so the heat transfer was would gve the atoms enough energy to occur but at the same time the the mention of the lack of nucleation point infers a boiling range some where within temps where the surface is at such a heat that the liquid becomes a vapor before it able to make contact with ther heated surface. But once again these are separated types of boiling with individual reactions properties. ....if you'd like to talk chemistry message me. But I have never said I was a chemist. I Never even said anything about my education or profession. And I am sorry
that this is the Liger V2 thread and wasn't necessarily commenting on the quartz halo, but as was comparing the Ligers different available dabbing surfaces with closest available Halo style nails from Dnail.
I'm talking about bumping, a different but not completely irrelevant phenomena to the transition, nucleation boiling etc that you describe here (see: https://books.google.com/books?id=8bIWAAAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover p. G-3 for a basic chemistry definition).

I've spent too long discussing this and writing/editing these posts over the last few days; I'll check out for now and wait and see what I can find out when I speak to Josh about my questions though, and who knows, maybe when I get to try one myself even! :)
 
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pigfoot

Dabs are vapor too!
Just wanting to keep the thread alive a bit...

My 20mm bucket and insert unfortunately is still stuck at customs... I send in all the paperwork they asked for, but up till now no response. Tomorrow would be the day they ship it back to the sender.

Hope they release it and I can still enjoy it.

I have been enjoying the 16mm vapor bucket with the quartz insert. It really brings out flavors that seem to have gotten lost when using titanium. I am also really surprised at how it keeps the heat away from my glass.

Hope some more forum members can shime in with their experiences. Still hoping the SiC dish arrives in a few days... Might be a nice very late Christmas gift...

Sorry to hear about the customs issue:bang:

I just got my Liger v2 in this morning. Went with the 20mm Silver. Decided against the inserts for now. Planing on grabbing both of them at some point, but I wanted to get a feel for the Liger alone. I feel like it would be the best way to notice how much quartz and SIC improve the experience. Lots of testing:science:

I'm very happy with how well the design keeps the heat off my rigs joint. Don't think I'm going to bother with a drop down unless i see claim building too fast. All in all I'm a happy camper so far:clap:

I noticed this as well! I switched from dome/torch to enail same as you though. Not sure if enails create less reclaim or of the ligers design is keeping it out of my rig. I would say its the Liger for sure, but when I break it down to clean it its nearly spotless:shrug:. I was cleaning my dome setup every couple of days out of pure necessity. The joint would be so caked with reclaim it would get hard pulling the dome on and off.

One of the deciding factors in my choosing the Liger over other options was banger design. I'm really not a fan of drop downs. I'm very glad in retrospect. No need to add to the air path with a drop down. Reclaim is under control as well as heat.

As someone considering an enail - this is a great thread! I've got some questions (a lot really, but some of them concern the electronics end); A couple of you mention how cool the nail stays; will both the D-nail and/or Liger be ok to use as male nails? In other words, do the designs keep the male end cool enough to use in a female joint, without danger of cracking it? I'd like to avoid using a dropdown.

So, you guys agree the SiC and Sapphire surfaces taste noticeable better. I guess there is no taste picked up from the hot Ti airpath?
 
pigfoot,

loadthetrenchdawg

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As someone considering an enail - this is a great thread! I've got some questions (a lot really, but some of them concern the electronics end); A couple of you mention how cool the nail stays; will both the D-nail and/or Liger be ok to use as male nails? In other words, do the designs keep the male end cool enough to use in a female joint, without danger of cracking it? I'd like to avoid using a dropdown.

So, you guys agree the SiC and Sapphire surfaces taste noticeable better. I guess there is no taste picked up from the hot Ti airpath?

I don't own any female pieces anymore so I can't really say about that. With the heater @ 700 I can get away with quick adjustments to the banger's orientation. With the heater @ 900-1000(for cleaning) I can still touch directly below the Liger's connection to the joint. I do have a fairly high tolerance to heat from years vaping though ;) So take that with a grain of salt!

I've read, over in the Next Gen enail thread, that the new Slim series stays pretty cool. I've heard they are OK for use without the drop down, although most seem to go for them. For the Liger I wouldn't bother unless you are big into cutting down on any possible reclaim.

I'll let someone with more experience with SIC/Sapphire weigh in on their merits. I will say I haven't read anyone complain about hot Ti in the airway for either the Dnail or Liger :tup:
 
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loadthetrenchdawg,
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herb forester

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Awesome! Would it be too much to ask for a video aiming down into the bucket while dabbing at that temp? Thanks anyway for the pics.
I need to set up a camera holder, or film someone else with it. Anyone use a no-login video host or is it just YouTube here? Regarding temperature, I need a contact thermocouple to report better accuracy, but my IR pyrometer seems to get good readings from the SiC (not so for clean Quartz or shiny ti). I'm sure with a good carb cap method the temp could be set considerably lower. I'll try to experiment more and let you know.

Out of interest, have you actually owned/had much experience using a SiC Halo? You say that this SiC insert is much better than the SiC halo without any explanation as to why?

On the face of it (and with feedback from a fellow FCer who owns both) I am told that the SiC insert x Liger combo is not as good as the halo for larger dabs. From your pics it is easy to see how the oil could overflow into the Ti, especially when bumping occurs (bumping is common at low temps like you describe!) and potentially get sucked straight up the banger intake going into the rig (which is what put me off other bangers far more expensive in the past).

I have no reason to think that the SiC insert x Liger is a bad nail - I expect it to be excellent compared to most other stuff out there! Still, I don't see any justification for saying it is better than the SiC halo, nor even setting it apart from the halo (which I also get no trails from at 560f) aside from the form factor and smaller dish. Last I checked the larger SiC halo with slim series base was a good chunk cheaper than the Liger with SiC insert too.

Is there any specific reason you have not yet identified that makes you think the Liger x SiC insert is 'leaps and bounds better' than the SiC Halo? Please do not take this as a criticism of yourself, I am genuinely interested to know why you think this is the case. :)

I tried the d-nail Halo at an event, not used it extensively. In my first pic above you're looking at the Liger insert installed with the shallow side up. I've used it a lot more the other way, which is plenty deep, and both ways produce very little reclaim if any. I can see where some would prefer the 20mm for surface area, especially when using the shallow side or larger dabs, but I was going for compactness and I'm careful about wasteful dosing. Personally I think if there's goo in your water something isn't working correctly.
 

mixchu69

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I just trashed my pukinbeagle Quartz enail and am looking to purchase the liger. It is liger vs dnail at the moment, but leaning towards the liger for several reasons. I had a previous Quartz enail break on me in a month. I like the liger because it has a strong foundation (ti won't break) and then can use either Quartz or sic as the dabbing surface. I like dnail for their reputation and track history.

how has the liger been treating you guys?
 
mixchu69,

jl420

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I've had my Liger set-up for 3 months now and I love it. I can't say anything about Dnail because I've never used one but they seem real popular. I can honestly say that Josh at CCA/710 gives the best customer service I've ever come across. I originally bought a Liger v.2 with Quartz insert and a Storm Cell cap. The cap he sent was not the famous '2 angled holes' cap but the newer version with a center hole. It seemed that everyone was in a uproar and wanted the original design back and within days Josh contacted me and sent me the original style cap, no charge. Some dealers would have said suck it you'll have to buy another one. I was so impressed with Josh & CCA/710 I ordered my Sic insert and it was at my doorstep 2 days later as well. It's a well designed piece that as new advances are made you can easily add on to your exsisting set-up. Since getting my Liger I haven't really used my torch or other bangers except when I'm at a friends house.
 
jl420,
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jl420

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You won't regret it mixchu69, I know the prices aren't cheap but well worth every dollar.
 
jl420,
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