Leviathan Pipes (inexpensive American Glass)

BigDaddyVapor

@BigDogJunction
Can't blame you for something you don't know. Who the Hell reads the TOS?

Psh... Me, of course! Daily.

Its confusing sometimes. Who's represented here, who isn't... what can you say, what should you avoid? Plus, you're dealing with your emotions. Some people are just absolute freaks about their glass. Its like some phallic symbol of our manhood. He with the most, biggest wins. They keep their glass sparkling all the time. Always taking pictures, filming video... etc.

Some people need to get a li...

:suspicious:

Never mind.
 

Puffers

Micro-Climate Mastermind
Although i know conflicts shouldn't aired publicly (not endorsing/encouraging), but it makes me respect Lev and his company all the more for the way he handled it. Customer service like that is the type of stuff that makes me confident in considering Lev for my next piece, or recommending him to my friends. :tup:
 

Dreamerr

Always in a state of confusion and silliness♀
I don't think the way wonderfox posted it was bad IMHO. It wasn't bashing Lev/the company it was a statement of fact and wonder of what could possibly be wrong. No where in her post did she bash or tell about her dealing with lev in pm's or impending pm's that she now did. I really don't see any harm so if you can explain it better that would be nice. I know all glass or vapes can and do have some issues and why shouldn't we know how many. I know on the vape threads this is very common to critique every last mm of the vape.

I can certainly understand two points that were made. One that she should handle it with lev in pm which she did afterwards but I would like to assume she was just asking for advice first and would have anyhow. Number two that someone shouldn't bash a product only critique which is what she did.
 
Dreamerr,
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BigDaddyVapor

@BigDogJunction
Its a non-issue, Dreamerr... and no one was saying those things. I've been in regular contact with Wonderfox, thru PM and I think it was made quite clear in the thread there isn't a problem. Was heading it off at the pass. There isn't an attempt to cover it up, or not discuss it. Its 2 small cracks, at the stemless joint. It happens... but the nature of it, they're isolated events. Its bound to happen eventually, with any makers glass.

Those are the kinds of things, you don't want blowing up into bad-mouthing, etc. I was speaking from experience and knowledge of the product, when I responded.

Wonderfox at no point, has expressed in the thread, or to me... issues with Lev or even M&M Tech. She was justifiably upset about a prized piece, being scarred.

Those were the only things being made clear, that I'm aware of. :tup:
 

Dreamerr

Always in a state of confusion and silliness♀
Ok I just thought that you were saying the post itself was incorrect and wanted clarification cause I didn't read anything wrong with it.

I know all glass has some inherent defects as do a lot of products which don't cause issues in use. That was not what I was commenting about. Thanks for the answer.
 

Gaffa

Well-Known Member
Well sadly, I cannot say the same about my experiences with the seller, Takavor23/ Lev.
I got in touch with the Forum Staff by using the Contact Us button at the bottom of the page before making any further comments after the transaction being eventually "completed" shall we say, basically complaining that I was threatened with a warning simply for giving my honest and accurate comments on the thread and that I didn't think this was fair considering this board is the only place to find proper information about Leviathan/ M&M Tech pipes online.
I've not received a reply from the Forum Staff after two weeks - I feel so insignificant in my position as a new member that people are very quick to threaten me with infractions but very slow to help me out.

Anyhow, here it goes.

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My need to order... the broken piece
-----
On Jan 20th or so, my China glass Blaze 7mm Inline to Double 8 Arm Tree perc bong suffered a harsh blow to the bottom - where the inline was. This shattered the (not 7mm, more like 2.5mm) inline, rendering the piece mostly dead, and I understood I couldn't continue using it in the current state indefinitely.
I began doing some homework - this new piece would be my fourth glass piece since the others had broken, this may not seem many to others but I tend not to spend the low amount of money I get on glass smoking apparatus. A little bio:- I'm a retired british army officer and having served for a good number of years, I left, falling a victim to symptoms of anxiety, post traumatic stress disorder as well as, according to the army, slight paralysis in my communication - whatever that means.
I take a huge risk using cannabis illegally in the UK, but I find that it really helps to ease the difficulties experienced. Good quality herbs are hard to find here, just like the glass pipes and other smoking equipment.

My research popped up one name over and over:- Soveriengty. Apparently really superb pieces, very well made, proven track record with diffusion etc. Other names popped up too - Dirty Rico, David Goldstein, Mobius - all really good pieces with a good deal of information on various forums etc.
I discovered a large, 20 inch M&M Tech tube on a US retailer website that featured the lattice perc, as well as a Showerhead perc, splash guard and ice pinches. Fitted the bill perfectly.

I originally set my budget at $350, but increased it to $450 to counter in appx $50 shipping costs as well as guaranteeing a good piece (as the ones named above are this price range and higher).

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The pre-order
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Contacted Lev on the 28th Jan, basically asking if he could make said piece (gave link via PM) - I also mistakenly posted on this forum, my first post I think it was! Apologies.
A quick response from Lev, saying "we can have it made and shipped to you within 3 weeks".
A few more PM's back and fourth with me asking far too many questions as usual and I was finally ready. This is what my piece would have been:-
"-20 inch gridded lattice to showerhead - custom modified from original to go 60mm can > 50mm can > 40mm can to mouthpiece - 18.8mm joint.
-Colours wherever possible (rasta colouring on base or lattice if available, and mouthpiece) - (I had asked for a rasta coloured Lattice, but that wasn't possible apparently). "

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The order
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I was also told in a message that it'd take a week to make, and with original shipping hit my shore within the 3 weeks. I had asked to pay the extra (originally $400 USD excl shipping) for USPS Express International, which I estimated at $60 USD, and on Feb 2nd, the custom Paypal link was created for me. I paid on the same day several hours after getting the message.
The seller also said that they'd keep me updated during the process.
Page 68, #1685 this thread - me giving praise for the seller. I was very excited about this piece, the most expensive piece of glass I'd ever bought.

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Order processing
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Page 72, #1779 - I quickly asked if there'd be an update seeing as I hadn't heard from the seller all week. I understand that it had only been a week, or just under since paying, but thought that the piece may have been nearly complete considering the original gesture, of it only taking this time to make.
#1795, reiterating my concern for lack of contact but respectful that he may have had health/ other issues. Commented that (to me) $460 was a lot of money, and that at this stage it'd only be arriving at around that 3 week point, from placing my order (so could've paid original $35 shipping and received same time).
#1798, told forum that I'd received a private message from a member who had great difficulty with an order he made, taking a while for anything to happen and eventually being refunded after nearly a month since placing order.

On Feb 11th - since posting my comments I guess - I received a private message from Lev, the seller, stating that, "Hey I am having a few issues with the reduction down to a 40mm. Sorry for the delay we are trying to get things done in time. "
My reply was basically saying I'd like any reduction if 40mm wasn't possible but if reducing was an issue, not to worry.

**After receiving a private message from ANOTHER member on the forums on Feb 13th, basically saying that, in short that Lev lies about shipping and that another regular member of the forum, BDV just sticks up for him... This was a member who'd placed an order from Lev as a Christmas present that never ever happened, yet was even told it was shipped, without any tracking being provided after having asked. BDV apparently affirmed that the tube would definitely show up. It didn't and the refund was provided... **

So on this date, concerned I could be sitting in the same boat (and I'm no Navy man), I sent a PM quickly stating that I'd need the piece making this week and some other expenses had come up, otherwise I'd have to get a refund "that I don't want to trouble you with".
The response from the seller was the following:- "I willl try to have it finished by this friday but its cutting it close. If not I will issue a refund to you. "
My reply:- "Thinking about it, it would probably be better for you to post this on Monday or Tuesday, rather than any time over the weekend, as it'll just stay in the postal center, so hopefully those extra couple of days should allow you to complete it!

Would be a real shame if, 2 weeks after having placed the order, the piece that I've been looking forward to isn't done, as I do remember you said that within 3 weeks it would have been "hitting my shore".
Seller's reply:-
I know, we are almost done with it. That's why were trying to finish before Friday. If we dont finish Friday it'll be ready Monday."

Some confusion obviously ensued as after a couple of other PMs, with me admitting that there was now more than one other user who'd pm'd with their problems, he said "No problem I will see if we can do it. If not I will issue a refund Friday."
My response:- "I don't think it would be worth refunding me on Friday? I mean that would be two weeks of my time wasted, I'd rather give you until Monday to finish the piece. "
To which he replied "Thanks".
 
Gaffa,

Gaffa

Well-Known Member
Post two, sorry, due to the 10,000 character limit. I hope this is acceptable but If you feel the need to infract, I can accept that.


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The update
-----
Didn't get one. Didn't even receive a message from the seller, Lev, for what happened...
Simply received an email from Paypal on the Friday, yes, Friday, with a refund notice saying that the $460 was being returned and it'd take up to 5 working days (the following Friday).
Very annoyed at this stage. I can't believe that I'd been refunded.

-----
Questions
-----
1) Why was I originally told that colouring on the lattice percs simply wasn't available? It was being done before I placed my order for sure - I understand running out of Rasta colours - but all colours?
2) What were you doing during the first week since being paid nearly half a grand?
3) What ever happened to the piece? Did you even start to make it - as I've no evidence to suggest you did?
4) Was the "we can't do the 40mm narrowing" an attempt to "buy time" as you sadly didn't have the drive for integrity?
5) No private message or other means of contact had been established to inform me of the refund, other than the standardized, template Paypal email - why did you not say anything?
6) Will people continue to see this as "me getting at the seller" or an honest and very thorough review of a situation that I don't want other people to be encountering?

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Summary
-----
Overall, I'm pretty shocked at a few things. I actually feel that I was intimidated, or at the very least, targeted by certain individuals for simply making a few negative comments - as its the only board with more than 5 pages on Leviathan/ M&M Tech Glass, shouldn't both sides of the story - seller and buyer, good and bad - be considered? I'm totally appalled by the certain lack of customer service. Like I had stated, it was really two weeks of my time that I felt was wasted.

Now, I'm not stating that you should out-right avoid this seller because they are absolutely unforgivably terrible, but what I am saying is that anyone who is thinking about making an order should be considerate that "things may not be as they appear". To consider that two other members took their time to Private Message me their concerns which I ended up being a victim of, is staggering. In extension, it actually shows that the seller, Lev, didn't actually sort their issues.

I'd also like you to remember: "The Customer is ALWAYS Right". In brief explanation, this is very simply because with the customer, there is no business. I have sadly had to go elsewhere and wait far longer than I ever anticipated due to this, and I certainly won't be considering Leviathan/ M&M Tech ever again.

I'm really sorry, but no reply from the Forum Staff - I've been meaning to post my comments for a while. Please contact me via Private Message to deliberate further with regards to deleting post/ issuing infractions, etc. It's not pleasant being made out to be the bad guy when I think this is valuable information.
 

Hoops

Well-Known Member
My experience....I requested a colored lattice around the last day of Dec and Lev told me it would take 3-4 weeks. I said that would be fine and never once reached out for an update. The bubbler shipped the last day of January, exactly 4 weeks from the date of order....I live in the states.

I honestly empathize with your plight Gaffa and I wasn't privy to the conversations you had with Lev, but it's very possible that fabrication of a custom piece with shipping to Europe in three weeks was just not reasonable or possible. If that is the case, the only proper thing to do would be to refund the money. My :2c:.

Edit: On second thought, I should stay out of this. You through some pretty big punches there on what sounds like miscommunication.
 

BigDaddyVapor

@BigDogJunction
Well, let's not leave out any names, since you want to name me.

I won't stoop to that level, however. Let's see if he sacs up, instead of hiding in the shadows, as usual.

The person you're referring to, ordered a piece right before Christmas and wanted rush shipping (5 days). Though, an attempt was made to comply with this... the shipping department (for like the 10x time now... LIED, MISPLACED, @#$%ED UP. I've had this conversation with Lev, no LESS than 5x). Lev has explained the shipping problem, several times... Who was also misinformed by the shipping department himself. In fact, Lev has explained AND apologized for the event several times. However, this person who keeps trolling this thread looking for problems... keeps bringing it up and sending private messages to people, who he thinks he can exploit, into just this kind of action.
 

Takavor23

Lev of Leviathan
Glass Blower
I'd like everyone to keep in mind we are just a few guys making glass. not a huge production line. We try to keep up with every deadline. If we cant make it in time after taking the job we will inform to try to fix the situation. Rush delivery is something we typically have a problem with hence the normal 2-3 or 3-4 week delivery time depending on how busy we are.

We are just people running a small shop in a small town. I have apologized a few times for delays or inability to produce a custom piece. We do put time into all of our pieces rather then just shell out a mediocre product. The customer is always right and we try to help in any way. I don't see the people on FC as only customers. I have personally met 20 members and treat them as friends. Jazmine and Edgore have been to my place, BDV I and many other members have had coffee at my local Starbucks.There are no games or intimidation.

To answer all questions in order
1. We do not color the larger lattice tubes. Its a sensitive process that cracks on a larger scale. But we did manage to make a rasta lattice as I believe I said in our messages.
2. Paypal typically takes 24 hours to clear some of the orders, followed by 4 days for us to process file and get the orders in and make sure the payment is cleared. It takes about a 6 business days before we get the guys on each job giving the customer a time to reconsider or make changes. As many FC members ask for mods and special requests.
3. We have the piece half assembled since we are just in our first week getting back from the expo. Was just going to finish it and put it in our friends shop since we cant sell custom pieces to stores.
4. Drive for integrity? Glass blowing isnt like plugging in a light bulb. We have to make the piece and test it for any defects based on changes to original design.
5. "No problem EDIT I will see if we can do it. If not I will issue a refund Friday." As I said if we could not do it in time before we left we would issue a refund rather then make you wait 3 weeks.
6.Everyone will accept your comments based on their past encounters with our company.

But as it goes in the business you can't always please everybody. But for everyone who has a M&M or Leviathan piece I'm sure they can appreciate the time and effort we put into everything. Not to mention the low price tag.
 

dannkk

Well-Known Member
I think I posted something similar to what lev just said last time you posted, Gaffa. I know from personal experience, that dealing directly with Lev can be frustrating. If you want customer service, though, it has to be paid for somehow. That's why the prices you see them charging here are so low. You could have ordered from a shop that is a leviathan dealer, and then you'd have a pretty website to email and an 800 number to call and complain, but that piece would have been costing you at least 600 bucks. Those dealers are where people need to go if they need their piece on their doorstep in 5 days. If you need to save some money, and have a lot of patience, you can order here, and you'll be happy and taken care of. Either way, you'll get some nice glass.

And like I said, this isn't to demonize you, Gaffa, or anything like that. I understand exactly where you're coming from. If I didn't drum up the patience to wait for my piece, I probably would have posted something similar to yours. I think the issue is more that people don't know exactly what they're getting into with ordering out of this thread. They think it's like a webstore that's got a ton of inventory, people taking orders all day. Hopefully new customers can find these posts and be better informed when they place their order.
 

BigDaddyVapor

@BigDogJunction
I missed this...

To consider that two other members took their time to Private Message me their concerns which I ended up being a victim of, is staggering.

TWO people out of HOW MANY... sent you messages? And you find that number staggering? You realize that just going from purchases off THIS thread, that would amount to LESS THAN, ONE PERCENT. (probably closer to less than one-tenth of a percent)

Not even remotely in the neighborhood of "staggering". In fact, that would win you a JD Powers Award for Excellency in Customer Service. (no joke)
 

momofthegoons

vapor accessory addict
Gaffa, that link is to contact the owner of the forum. While it is unfortunate that he has not had the time to get back to you, a simple pm to any one of us would have gotten results immediately. And, since I was the one who addressed you last in this thread as a staff member, I am somewhat surprised that you never tried to contact me.

First I am going to address your claim of being "quick to threaten you." If you look at other threads in this forum, and the Cloud thread springs to mind first, you will find the same kind of warning posts to many others who feel they need to post repeatedly about their experiences with a vendor. Once is fine. When it becomes several posts of complaints about wait time, it becomes whining and we do not put up with it.

Saying that this forum or thread does not allow members to voice negative experiences is simply not true. We encourage both positive and negative comments, as long as they are factual. The fact of the matter is that there haven't been that many "negative" experiences. The member who contacted you had an experience that has been rehashed several times on this thread. Why that member feels the need to continue to poison the well, I'm not sure... :cool:

You've thrown out some pretty serious accusations in your post towards the forum, a forum member or two, and the staff here. You say you've been intimidated by staff (me) because you were told to stop complaining about delivery time, you have implied that Lev is a liar, and that BDV is basically a shill. While it is unfortunate that you were not satisfied with your transaction, I cannot see how any of this translates to those accusations. And to say that when ordering from this seller that "things might not be as they appear" is slanderous.

I can assure you that the staff will be taking your posts into consideration and would urge you to contact us privately if you have any other comments on this.
 

flotntoke

thoroughly vaped
Sorry to read of Gaffa's problems - and doesn't seem too cool to me that he had to include so much and get into the whole mess so deeply. I get that his order didn't work out, and agree its appropriate to include a post in the thread - but WOW! Believe that was a good bit over the top and think a few responses have already covered what I'd say regarding great prices and professional service that seems to be the norm from Lev (and fortunately seems the majority of vendors here on FC).

Not trying to pile on.... just wanted to emphasize something BDV said: "In fact, that would win you a JD Powers Award for Excellency in Customer Service."

Fortunately, I've had nothing but excellent experience in dealing with Lev and love my Lattice like no other piece of glass (or any smoking/vaping device) in life! Seems that almost all have had about the same experience. As far as the JD Powers Award comparison.... I sure wish the same quality of product, level of service, attention to detail and what seems to be good fair and friendly business practices by Lev was available from ANY of the manufacturers of any of my vehicles over the years (some of whom regularly get the JDP Award). Not that I don't appreciate Lev, his great work and all he does - but would help me a lot more if I could get the same experience with cars that cost thousands (or tens of thousands new!) that I get on a great piece of glass that cost me a couple hundred.

Not a fanboy (or hope not)! Just appreciate a great product at a good price, and while I may have been a bit hesitant/concerned as an early buyer - I couldn't be happier about my Lattice and that I bought something from a great vendor. I'll continue to recommend anyone to him so they can enjoy the same I do nearly every day. And, can't wait till I have a little more space in the budget to pick up another piece or 2 of his fine work.
 

Takavor23

Lev of Leviathan
Glass Blower
IMAG0044.jpg

So umm lets cut this tension. We made a slyme typhon. Any thoughts?

Oh and the original is on sale for 130 of flickr
http://www.flickr.com/photos/leviathanpipes/8504888749/in/set-72157632847279575
 

jasmin

Active Member
Look at that beautiful clean slyme! I likes it.:p Great job. Love the translucent color it has.:love: It's a different color slyme then I've seen.:nod:
 

jasmin

Active Member
Now how bout you show us around your shop? :brow:.Would love to see all the glass you have back there.:D J/K. I know its top secret.
 

Takavor23

Lev of Leviathan
Glass Blower
Now how bout you show us around your shop? :brow:.Would love to see all the glass you have back there.:D J/K. I know its top secret.

Lol the shop has too man projects going around to walk someone through. At times it feels like a club house or a insane asylum.

Look at that beautiful clean slyme! I likes it.:p Great job. Love the translucent color it has.:love: It's a different color slyme then I've seen.:nod:

Its slyme 3, a different sylme color. It has a great green/blue and yellow glow so I fell for it rather then the green green.

Great price on the original too!

Thanks, I can make the original in a 8 arm as well because of a few people have asked for a tree perc.
 
Takavor23,

farscaper

Well-Known Member
So much more charicter than the original. Was thes slime a custom or is that puupy going in the lineup? Ive been wanting a strait tube too :D price on slime?
 
farscaper,
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