InVerzion Vaporizer

invertedisdead

VAS is Dead
Just tinkering this week with some of my other designs. I found out a few days ago that they have not even started building my replacement parts yet. (So much for ASAP)

I will be thinking strongly about shopping for a new manufacturer, or shift focus towards InVerzion 2.


Found this picture on the iPad, thought you guys might get a kick out of this portable vaporizer concept from earlier in the year.


 

arb

Semi shaved ape
Just tinkering this week with some of my other designs. I found out a few days ago that they have not even started building my replacement parts yet. (So much for ASAP)

I will be thinking strongly about shopping for a new manufacturer, or shift focus towards InVerzion 2.


Found this picture on the iPad, thought you guys might get a kick out of this portable vaporizer concept from earlier in the year.


You can whittle one faster!
That looks kinda groovy,how's clouds?
 

florduh

Well-Known Member
Just tinkering this week with some of my other designs. I found out a few days ago that they have not even started building my replacement parts yet. (So much for ASAP)

I will be thinking strongly about shopping for a new manufacturer, or shift focus towards InVerzion 2.


Found this picture on the iPad, thought you guys might get a kick out of this portable vaporizer concept from earlier in the year.



If you make a portable I'd buy it, sight unseen.
 

invertedisdead

VAS is Dead
You can whittle one faster!
That looks kinda groovy,how's clouds?

Hand whittled Dynavap stems would go big!

All my vapes are of the "cumulonimbus" varietal :D

... But I'd rather have a little CNC, like @JCat :wave:

If you make a portable I'd buy it, sight unseen.


Thank you! I have a pretty cool idea for a simple ceramic heater I'd like to put to the test :sherlock: my original stance with electronic portables is just that it's extremely challenging to implement a glass based heating design, at that point I'd be looking towards ceramics.

I just need to take a step back and re-focus my efforts on manufacturability. I have to admit, the struggles of getting my parts made makes it soooo tempting to just build vapes out of metal. It technically makes a better heater (thermodynamically speaking), the tolerances are easy to meet, people rationalize with the durability, etc. - but then I think about taking a dab off titanium, versus quartz, and I know I must stick to the mission.

Just need to reel in here.
 

VaporWare

Well-Known Member
I keep thinking my ideas would be easier in metal too, but I agree that in reality a similar design made of ceramic is almost certainly going to produce nicer vapor than a metal version, so I keep coming back to ceramics. Picking up a Firewood 7 and finding that it has a similar heater to some I’ve thought about proved it to me again.

I’m glad you’re sticking to what you know should be best instead of just going the relatively cheap and easy way. There’s already plenty of that out there. :)

I’m not sure it’s cheap enough to use for our purposes, but in case you didn’t know some places that machine hard ceramics like zirconia also do things like sapphire!
 

iDRINKBLEACH

knowing is half the power - Gi-JOE
Just tinkering this week with some of my other designs. I found out a few days ago that they have not even started building my replacement parts yet. (So much for ASAP)

I will be thinking strongly about shopping for a new manufacturer, or shift focus towards InVerzion 2.


Found this picture on the iPad, thought you guys might get a kick out of this portable vaporizer concept from earlier in the year.


That looks like a neo all the way.
 

invertedisdead

VAS is Dead
I keep thinking my ideas would be easier in metal too, but I agree that in reality a similar design made of ceramic is almost certainly going to produce nicer vapor than a metal version, so I keep coming back to ceramics. Picking up a Firewood 7 and finding that it has a similar heater to some I’ve thought about proved it to me again.

I’m glad you’re sticking to what you know should be best instead of just going the relatively cheap and easy way. There’s already plenty of that out there. :)

I’m not sure it’s cheap enough to use for our purposes, but in case you didn’t know some places that machine hard ceramics like zirconia also do things like sapphire!

A few days ago I was thinking how combustion f’n sweet it would be to make the entire vaporizer AND bowl out of machined sapphire. Ive been thinking lately how the matching bowl works for maximizing vaporizer performance. A more conductive bowl facilitates a better environment for vaporization to occur. The heater can be an oven, but so can the bowl. 🧐

I’m a fan of ceramics, though the setup costs can be high, some manufacturing methods can facilitate good cost at larger scale for more complex designs, which is pretty attractive if the idea was big enough to get to that scale. I was thinking a few weeks ago about how a ceramic DynaVap would be sweet, but then you’d lose out on the induction capability. I guess the old saying “choosing the right tool for the job” still rings true! Damn those old timers were smart, too!

The funniest part of coming up with vape ideas is realizing it’s already been done :hmm:, sometimes I think I stumbled onto a really
good one, and then I’ll take a step back and realize it’s essentially a Herborizer, or a Vapor Genie. :spliff:
 

VaporWare

Well-Known Member
Yeah, more than once I’ve gone through laying out a design for myself and then as I worked through the details or ran into a thread I hadn’t read on FC I realized it was almost the same thing.

I guess it shows that some of what we have now has had a lot of thought put into it, or we’re being unconsciously guided down the same paths by the things we’re familiar with... :sherlock:
 

VaporWare

Well-Known Member
Glass balls have been used in things like the Glass Symphony and G43 for a while, but with those unavailable people have started modding their other desktops by adding balls. Oh, and the new Terp Torch uses them too.

I don’t think there’s anything available that uses a quartz housing filled with gemstones though. :)

Using these in a portable would be harder because of the time it would take to heat them up enough. I think a similar idea could possibly work, but I’m not sure it would be the most efficient design so it may be slow to heat up and battery life might not be good. It would probably have to be a session rather than on-demand device.

Butane power could make it work though...I have had some ideas for that, and I think @invertedisdead has too. :)

I’m just not convinced yet that it’s the best way to go for a portable... :sherlock:
 

invertedisdead

VAS is Dead
This is a really cool heating method. Why isnt the crystal bead/coil method more common in desktop or handeheld vapes? Just used for ripping bongs from what I see. Why not a volcano style vaporizer that used one of these neat little heaters?

Thank you! I would say probably because most of those vapes are optimized for mass production. Also the bead style heater only really makes sense in a glass vaporizer. I see people pairing beads with metal vapes which doesn’t make much sense to me, as there are much more attractive possibilities when using metal than bearings, with less of the drawbacks. The ball vape style is pretty effective for glass systems though.

That said, @Hippie Dickie developed a coil heated all glass portable vaporizer before most of the desktop guys.

This particular design is inspired by the Glass Symphony and the Flowerpot Showerhead, which had a bit of a strong rivalry at the time the idea was originally conceived. It was then improved to the current materials selection based on concepts I enjoy from concentrate vaporization.


Glass balls have been used in things like the Glass Symphony and G43 for a while, but with those unavailable people have started modding their other desktops by adding balls. Oh, and the new Terp Torch uses them too.

I don’t think there’s anything available that uses a quartz housing filled with gemstones though. :)

Using these in a portable would be harder because of the time it would take to heat them up enough. I think a similar idea could possibly work, but I’m not sure it would be the most efficient design so it may be slow to heat up and battery life might not be good. It would probably have to be a session rather than on-demand device.

Butane power could make it work though...I have had some ideas for that, and I think @invertedisdead has too. :)

I’m just not convinced yet that it’s the best way to go for a portable... :sherlock:

Agreed, I wouldn’t personally develop anything for a portable that wasn’t on demand ready at this point in the vaporverse. Although I have been toying around with this concept from 2016 of mine regarding a miniature enail for 510 box mods, complete with quartz banger and all. :science:

InVerzion 2 will be pushing Volcano Hybrid style heatup times, with bio-inert build topology.
 

invertedisdead

VAS is Dead
Gettin’ Inverted on this rainy evening with the 4MM SapphIre setup

Still waiting for parts :whoa:

And still playing in the vape lab - took my old mini enail idea, and a few good hash rosin samples later and it turned into a new full size enail design fit for the most serious dabber :science:

... back to testing!
 

Haze Mister

Well-Known Member
Apologies for not having the time to follow the thread. I see that the design has now shifted to a combined air inlet and side arm. I'm not a huge fan of that (if only for aesthetic reasons) but I'm sure there are solid reasons behind the design.

Just some comments on things that have been said:

High quality Borosilicate can work out... I have been using the same boro 18/14mm adapter piece since October, firing it with a torch several times a day. I take care to start with a low flame and build up to full power over about a minute before I reach desired temp. Still no cracks to be seen. In contrast, a previous adapter from a different source cracked within days. I suspect many of the adapters in the market are not even borosilicate.

Boro heats up faster than quartz, and quartz heats up faster than saphhire/ruby. So a heater filled with quartz balls would get there quicker.

At the risk of suggesting heresy, I suggest a cheaper version using quartz beads (or a mix of quartz and sapphire)... Is there a noticeable difference in heat output when used with a coil??

As for bowls: I find that the ideal would be a straight cone shape with just a small dimple for the screen to sit on . Those adapters that have a slight bulge in the middle are not so good because they trap herb in that bulge, that does not get baked, and needs stirring. Also, a straight cone is easier to clean.

I think the Herborizer Micro bowl has a close to ideal shape for thorough roasting without the need to stir:


This can be filled all the way to the top of the clear part, which should be enough for most if the screen is at the bottom of the cone.

A straight tube shape from a 18mm top with a 14mm outlet at the bottom is not ideal as the herb around the edges at the bottom will not be baked and will need stirring.

I guess it's different bowls for different occasions :whoa:
 
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Haze Mister

Well-Known Member
but doesn't the herb at the bottom corners of the tube bowl stay mostly not vaped?

I think a smooth taper concentrates the hot air and makes up for the loss of heat as it travels through the load.... either way this kind of rig is awesome and these are minor fine tunings. I don't like stirring and re-heating if it can be avoided.

ah, OK, I guess this is the current design?
 

invertedisdead

VAS is Dead
Apologies for not having the time to follow the thread. I see that the design has now shifted to a combined air inlet and side arm. I'm not a huge fan of that (if only for aesthetic reasons) but I'm sure there are solid reasons behind the design.

That was the original boro version from the beginning of the thread, the Quartz version has a solid coil arm and a four hole "tetra" inlet on top to promote better mixing - There's a photo of the inlets on one of these more recent pages.

High quality Borosilicate can work out... I have been using the same boro 18/14mm adapter piece since October, firing it with a torch several times a day. I take care to start with a low flame and build up to full power over about a minute before I reach desired temp. Still no cracks to be seen. In contrast, a previous adapter from a different source cracked within days. I suspect many of the adapters in the market are not even borosilicate.

Starting out slow and gradually increasing the heat probably goes a long way towards keeping the integrity of the glass. That said, I think what you're doing is fine for DIY experimenting at ones own discretion; but I don’t think it’s really safe enough to sell as I could never guarantee everyone would be so gentle on it, and these ball vapes are the last thing you’d want to fail structurally. Truthfully I’ve been talking to a glass blower on here over the last few days, and he doesn’t even suggest directly heating boro with a coil.


Boro heats up faster than quartz, and quartz heats up faster than saphhire/ruby. So a heater filled with quartz balls would get there quicker.

Sapphire conducts heat about 3000% that of borosilicate glass.


The conductivities of borosilicate and quartz are nearly identical as borosilicate is essentially just a less pure version of fused quartz, doped with boron for lower working temperatures.

Keep in mind thermal conductivity doesn’t just affect heatup time, it more importantly affects how evenly something is heated, whether heated thoroughly, or with thermal zones. The sapphire internals help distribute heat throughout the quartz housing internally.


At the risk of suggesting heresy, I suggest a cheaper version using quartz beads (or a mix of quartz and sapphire)... Is there a noticeable difference in heat output when used with a coil??

It’s not heresy to me, I’ve been thinking for a while to ask if anyone would rather see quartz beads in this. Full quartz would be pretty sweet too, I actually did experiment with quartz beads for a bit. It wouldn’t really be any cheaper though, the handworked custom quartz housing is the expensive part, the balls are all mass produced in factories. I’ve got some other vape designs the pipeline for more budget friendly solutions.


As for bowls: I find that the ideal would be a straight cone shape with just a small dimple for the screen to sit on . Those adapters that have a slight bulge in the middle are not so good because they trap herb in that bulge, that does not get baked, and needs stirring. Also, a straight cone is easier to clean.

I think the Herborizer Micro bowl has a close to ideal shape for thorough roasting without the need to stir:

Are you currently using that cone shaped bowl or one like it? I really dig the look of it, though I tend to feel that with convection, it’s better to not have herb stacked so high. I kinda feel like the plant material acts as insulation and can even inhibit performance. As an old Volcano user I was sort of “brought up” on the herb being spread out versus stacked high.

The adapters that I use were chosen specifically for their thick quality and lack of side bulge for unbaked crumbs. I think that conical design makes sense for the Herborizer as it uses a full length joint and the heater even extends below that a bit. For my vape the joint is supposed to be cut in half to widen the airflow early on.
 

arb

Semi shaved ape
but doesn't the herb at the bottom corners of the tube bowl stay mostly not vaped?

I think a smooth taper concentrates the hot air and makes up for the loss of heat as it travels through the load.... either way this kind of rig is awesome and these are minor fine tunings. I don't like stirring and re-heating if it can be avoided.
Depends on how much is loaded.
Pack,grind all the usual players play a part.
I see @VGOODIEZ is using borosilicate balls in his elev8r coil mod.
I ordered one of those this weekend as the wait here is just fucking killing me.
I had a negative reaction to the titanium in the weedeater so material choice does come into play.
All of it matters when you're making the best.......of anything.
2021 is gonna make 2020 its bitch for Cray Cray........buckle up homies!
👻
 

Shadooz

Active Member
The funniest part of coming up with vape ideas is realizing it’s already been done :hmm:, sometimes I think I stumbled onto a really
good one, and then I’ll take a step back and realize it’s essentially a Herborizer, or a Vapor Genie. :spliff:

Essentialy more an enail elv8r with up intake not sided, or an "inverted" herborizer (glass in and heater out)
Am still surprise of the low coil temp and 5 min heatup, it's 5min over the bowl or separate (oven effect)?

Cause the elv8r with that kind of setup, have slow heatup time (more than 10min) and a blast like blow
 

Haze Mister

Well-Known Member
It’s not heresy to me, I’ve been thinking for a while to ask if anyone would rather see quartz beads in this. Full quartz would be pretty sweet too, I actually did experiment with quartz beads for a bit. It wouldn’t really be any cheaper though, the handworked custom quartz housing is the expensive part, the balls are all mass produced in factories. I’ve got some other vape designs the pipeline for more budget friendly solutions.




Are you currently using that cone shaped bowl or one like it?
Yeah, I'm using a bowl by Black Leaf which looks similar but is slightly more bulbous.

Agreed on all points you make!

I looked at some US prices for sapphire terp pearls and that gave me the impression that filling that piece with sapphire balls would add several hundred bucks to the price...

Something else that might lower the price could be using rough sapphire stones of around the same diameter ..and that would look pretty cool too, especially if different colours were mixed in...
 

arb

Semi shaved ape
Yeah, I'm using a bowl by Black Leaf which looks similar but is slightly more bulbous.

Agreed on all points you make!

I looked at some US prices for sapphire terp pearls and that gave me the impression that filling that piece with sapphire balls would add several hundred bucks to the price...

Something else that might lower the price could be using rough sapphire stones of around the same diameter ..and that would look pretty cool too, especially if different colours were mixed in...
Does it have to be a gemstone?
There are ALL kinds of different stones of varying hardness and polishability.
Why not some tumbled granite Or feldspar?
 
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