How did Donald Trump Win?

[TeeJay1952]

@HighSeas Sailor That is known as Prior Restraint or Heckler's Veto.

 

[HighSeasSailor]

.....what you are endorsing SOMETIMES leads to violence. (fixed)

If you feel like being pedantic, let's be specific:

What she endorsed DID lead to violence. Full stop. The specific night, the specific people, the specific cause, led directly to violence against Americans.

You seem to be bending over backwards to make that okay. I found her remarks somewhat out of place given that this very night had people being hurt over this election. If she was disturbed by my wording then I apologize, but for no more than that.

 

[CarolKing]

For this country to have advanced over the years people have had to use their voices to protest. Whether it was during the race riots of the 1960s or when folks were against the Vietnam War.

We use our voices to protest what we feel is unjust. I am thankful we have that right in America. Are some suggesting that right be taken away? Maybe we need to change the constitution? Sometimes bad things happen when protesting takes place. Should we not do it?

I will assume that thousands will protest again tonight. Maybe everyone should just accept things the way they are and go home. That hasn't been the American way before and it won't be now. We don't accept the unjust.

When I say unjust let me make it clear. I don't accept a president that grabs women's private parts and thinks its OK. I don't agree with bigotry and xenophobia. I don't agree with gathering up all the brown skinned folks and sending them back to Mexico.

As Americans we still have the right to assemble and protest.

Edit
@jay87 exactly what I'm talking about below. Trump needs to walk back his racist statements. The students are parroting our president elect. It's pathetic.

This is why people are protesting. We've never had to deal with a person like this as our future president in my lifetime. There is no precedence for it. There's nothing I can even compare it to.

Highsailor we will have to agree to disagree. I don't agree with your logic. That's OK, you believe the way you want to. I'm not going to argue.

People are really worried in this country. Trump has to show what he's made of and address the people regarding how frieghtened they are. Help people feel better.

 

[HighSeasSailor]

For this country to have advanced over the years people have had to use their voices to protest. Whether it was during the race riots of the 1960s or when folks were against the Vietnam War.

We use our voices to protest what we feel is unjust. I am thankful we have that right in America. Are some suggesting that right be taken away? Maybe we need to change the constitution? Sometimes bad things happen when protesting takes place. Should we not do it?

I'll boil things down, because I think others are taking my own words out of context of everything else I've said.

This is a protest:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Million_Man_March

This is not a protest:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_hooliganism

I view what is taking place here as the latter, with a political election standing in place of the football match. You'll note that Dr. King didn't burn down Washington, set cars on fire, or set ambushes for police.

I realize some people took/take this election so seriously that they are genuinely afraid that the country is dissolving. I view this as shortsighted and foolish; I remember when people literally said Reagan was the antichrist (and cited his first, middle and last names each having six letters as proof!). To me, these riots are a bunch of angry children who can't deal with defeat destroying property and hurting real people.

Perhaps you see it differently; I only hope to show that there is another perspective.

 

[jay87]

I'll boil things down, because I think others are taking my own words out of context of everything else I've said.

This is a protest:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Million_Man_March

This is not a protest:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_hooliganism

I view what is taking place here as the latter, with a political election standing in place of the football match. You'll note that Dr. King didn't burn down Washington, set cars on fire, or set ambushes for police.

I realize some people took/take this election so seriously that they are genuinely afraid that the country is dissolving. I view this as shortsighted and foolish; I remember when people literally said Reagan was the antichrist (and cited his first, middle and last names each having six letters as proof!). To me, these riots are a bunch of angry children who can't deal with defeat destroying property and hurting real people.

Perhaps you see it differently; I only hope to show that there is another perspective.

So along the same lines people who support Trump are currently endorsing the hate crimes going on because of him? I think not but it would follow the same logic.

Middle School kids chanting "Build that wall"
(http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...l-students-chant-build-wall-article-1.2868479)

I'm from Michigan and I know exactly where this school is. These are my people and I don't blame the kids, but what I fear is that they could grow up and be affected by this racist rhetoric. Or what about the kids they are chanting at, how will this affect them?

Does a child deserve to get persecuted by their classmates because of their race?

Who do you think these chanting kids are imitating?
Where did they learn to chant "Build that wall" at their classmates who happen to have brown skin?




"Black lives doesn't matter and neither does your vote"

(http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/10/us/post-election-hate-crimes-and-fears-trnd/)

You tell me who inspired these activities? I'd wager it's the same guy who inspired the protests you were talking about earlier.

Donald is responsible for cleaning up this mess now.

 

[HighSeasSailor]

So along the same lines people who support Trump are currently endorsing the hate crimes going on because of him? I think not but it would follow the same logic.

Middle School kids chanting "Build that wall"
(http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...l-students-chant-build-wall-article-1.2868479)

I'm from Michigan and I know exactly where this school is. These are my people and I don't blame the kids, but what I fear is that they could grow up and be affected by this racist rhetoric. Or what about the kids they are chanting at, how will this affect them?

Does a child deserve to get persecuted by their classmates because of their race?

Who do you think these chanting kids are imitating?
Where did they learn to chant "Build that wall" at their classmates who happen to have brown skin?




"Black lives doesn't matter and neither does your vote"

(http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/10/us/post-election-hate-crimes-and-fears-trnd/)

You tell me who inspired these activities? I'd wager it's the same guy who inspired the protests you were talking about earlier.

Donald is responsible for cleaning up this mess now.

Are you under the impression that I support Trump?

I've said not one single word to defend him, and I'm not going to start now.

 

[CarolKing]

That video which was shown above plus much more is why people are protesting. It's not simply protesting because we don't like that we lost the election. It's waaaay more than that. It's Trump's behavior the past 18 months. People aren't going to accept it. I don't accept it.

This is a shock for people that we went from somebody like Obama to Trump. What a let down. It would have been a let down with Hillary too. This is way worse IMO. Remember, I wanted Bernie.

I really am trying to look for a silver lining, it's just hard right now. I encourage people to exercise their constitutional right to assemble. The people's anger is bubbling over in the streets of major large cities in America.

I don't think Trump is even going to like being president. He just liked how it sounded. He's happy because he won. Now the real work starts. He will just designate all the jobs for other people. Hopefully people that actually know stuff. Not someone like Steve Bannon.

 

[jay87]

Are you under the impression that I support Trump?

I've said not one single word to defend him, and I'm not going to start now.

What I'm saying is Trump inspired fear and promoted racial hatred during his rise to power and now this is the result.

We have to try to fix this somehow and the person who has the responsibility to fix it will be Donald Trump the President of the United States.

The racial tensions and real fears that people have can't just be swept under the rug.

I think it is something that Donald will have to address.
I don't know how people would react to Donald saying something like: "There will be no racism, I will not stand for racism, and I will not be deporting millions of your loved ones."

But I think something like that is necessary.

 

[Scott A]

What I'm saying is Trump inspired fear and promoted racial hatred during his rise to power and now this is the result.

We have to try to fix this somehow and the person who has the responsibility to fix it will be Donald Trump the President of the United States.

The racial tensions and real fears that people have can't just be swept under the rug.

I think it is something that Donald will have to address.
I don't know how people would react to Donald saying something like: "There will be no racism, I will not stand for racism, and I will not be deporting millions of your loved ones."

But I think something like that is necessary.

Honestly why would he have to say something like that? The "deporting millions of your loved ones" thing is just fear mongering.

edit- Its like dems and leftists are expecting some reach out towards their party to make things right from the Trump party but I dont really see why. Its not like that is a standard thing that happens after elections.

At this point I really have nothing much more to say to the left than except your loss and move on.

 

[HighSeasSailor]

That video that was shown above plus much more is why people are protesting.

Carol,

I'm sincerely not trying to be impolite, but what's your point? I understand why people are angry, I'm saying that violence in response is hypocritical and that by doing this, they have done exactly what they claim to have a problem with. They've harmed innocent Americans over political differences. I am not going to make you feel bad for your political views, I suspect we agree on far more matters than we disagree, but I hope you give thought to such things. You may not hope for violence, but this was a predictable outcome, and for what? Just to hear a voice? Sorry, but lives matter more.

What I'm saying is Trump inspired fear and promoted racial hatred during his rise to power and now this is the result.

We have to try to fix this somehow and the person who has the responsibility to fix it will be Donald Trump the President of the United States.

The racial tensions and real fears that people have can't just be swept under the rug.

I think it is something that Donald will have to address.
I don't know how people would react to Donald saying something like: "There will be no racism, I will not stand for racism, and I will not be deporting millions of your loved ones."

But I think something like that is necessary.

You asked a lot of questions that implied that I would have an answer for Trump's actions. Just asking why? I'm not even discussing Trump, fuck Trump, and fuck the disgusting things he says and does. I'm addressing the hypocritical protests in response, the answering of misunderstanding, generalizations, bigotry, and violence, with more of the same.

In this thread and the other one, how many people have made generalizations to the effect of red staters being uneducated hillbillies? Guess it's ok to make sickening generalizations about an underclass if they're a popular punching bag.

The problem I see is that everyone seems to have forgotten a basic childhood lesson: two wrongs don't make a right.

 

[jay87]

Honestly why would he have to say something like that? The "deporting millions of your loved ones" thing is just fear mongering.

edit- Its like dems and leftists are expecting some reach out towards their party to make things right from the Trump party but I dont really see why. Its not like that is a standard thing that happens after elections.

At this point I really have nothing much more to say to the left than except your loss and move on.

Because Americans are scared and it is the responsibility of the President to ease the fears of the American people.

Because it would help to stop these protests and help to unify our country.

Because it would symbolize that even though Trump won, racism is not acceptable.

 

[Joel W.]

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[Scott A]

Because Americans are scared and it is the responsibility of the President to ease the fears of the American people.

Because it would help to stop these protests and help to unify our country.

Because it would symbolize that even though Trump won, racism is not acceptable.

It is not the president of the United States job to stop unwarranted fear mongering.

Your last sentence just goes to show how far out of touch some of you are about the current state of America. You really think a presidential election symbolizes that racism is acceptable?

 

[CarolKing]

It is not the president of the United States job to stop unwarranted fear mongering.

Your last sentence just goes to show how far out of touch some of you are about the current state of America. You really think a presidential election symbolizes that racism is acceptable?

Yes it is up to the president elect to help folks feel better. Especially the way this man spoke and his actions before he was elected. I definitely disagree with you on this one and it looks like other issues too. It's OK to disagree.

The teachers in schools are really at a loss right now. The president helps to give guidance. Not sure if Trump is capable of that.

 

[Scott A]

Yes it is up to the president elect to help folks feel better. Especially the way this man spoke and his actions before he was elected.

Really though? I think you guys are calling for something to happen that is typically far outside of the norms when a president gets elected to happen.

 

[jim-bob]

It doesn't seem crazy at all for a president to try to bring his people together. That's kinda the gig, isn't it?

 

[Stevenski]

@Stevenski agree 100% , and I wonder when MSM will update the EC count to show the landslide that was Trump, because by god it was a landslide. I saw people talking CALEXIT. Imagine how big of a landslide it would of been if they were actually gone and she didn't get those 55.

They could talk about a Caliexit but the reality is that would never be allowed to happen. If they did try to cede & were put under "administration" who would leap to Cali's defense globally?

So that settles that. The bottom line is even if trump doesn't have a mandate, he has both houses of congress, and will have a friendly supreme court plus many other judges validating his policies. No reichstag-type event will be necessary, if he wants to take this country for a surreal fascist adventure. The bonfire is primed with gasoline, just light it and watch it burn. Even without the support of the masses.

The bottom line is trump can do whatever the hell he wants, as he never took a position on anything.

At least we didn't give the socialist a chance to upset corporate profits, that would have been a travesty.

This. Scary times are ahead but that is the case with the unknown. With Clinton you know there would be more bloodshed, global interference & profiteering. Pence seems to be the really dangerous one with his line of thinking.

 

[CarolKing]

We are not experiencing a normal election is the point. Trump wasn't a normal candidate. In fact he sexaually assaulted women on a regular basis. If he wasn't so rich maybe he would be in jail. He watched young teenage American girls while they were half dressed.

He's a creepy, dirty old man. That is not even the half of it. The list is long. The racist language alone is horrific. His followers and voters are OK with that.

Oh and the big wall that this man wants to build. He is a very decisive person that many people don't trust to do the right thing. He doesn't have the temperament to be dog catcher.

Are they going to take Trump's twitter privileges away if he misbehaves? It's like they have to treat him like a child - they all have to babysit him. His handlers have to make sure he's
not being a bad boy by getting into a twitter war with someone.

Edit
@gaseous_clay a lot of people feel as you do. We are depressed, worried about what's to come.

@Scott A i think you are vaping too much cannabis. A person can't normalize this president elect. It's way out of the realm of normal.

I get so tired of people still saying. I voted for Trump because I wanted to take my country back. Back from where? We all want jobs and healthcare but take my country back? You mean take it back from a black president? I don't understand take my country back?

 

[gaseous_clay]

I think it is a combination of factors.

1. Celebrity idol worship. trump turned to TV, putting out an image of him being in a leadership position. Without the TV show, he doesn't win. In a day when a woman can make a very successful career doing essentially nothing, starting with putting out a sex tape, this cannot be discounted.

2. Republicans have a history of ignoring their politicians inconsistencies. This allowed trump to say contradictory things and not have it matter.

3. His method of constantly calling in to CNN and other "news" networks to talk about what he would do was very interesting. It was very apparent that if he was asked any question he didn't want to answer, he would cut them off. The networks gave him quite a bit of time without holding his feet to the fire out of the fear that he would stop calling and their ratings would suffer.

4. In an environment where white supremacists have felt under attack (8 years with a black president, what they see as a ridiculous notion that police shouldn't shoot unarmed black people, the Confederate Flag finally being criticized for what it is) trump blew the dog whistle loud.

5. trump painted himself as an outsider, against the establishment when the only part of the establishment he is an outsider at is actually running for office. (Imagine 8 years ago when the right-wing was complaining that Obama didn't have enough experience that their next success would be in his first campaign.)

6. Clinton ran a campaign from a front runner position. trump ran from behind. Clinton played it very safe. trump said whatever he wanted. He's already backing off from those statements.

7. Clinton was an awful candidate. She may have been the only person that trump could beat. People simply didn't get out and vote. The people trump spoke to did.

I truly fear what is coming. Since the election I have been extremely depressed. I have no taste for food. I sleep a lot. If he accomplishes even a fraction of what he has claimed he wants to, this world is in a lot of trouble. I don't think he cares about anything but the ego trip of being elected President.

 

[lwien]

Ya know, I have a funny feeling that one of two things are going to happen here.

Either Trump, after a few weeks, will realize that he is in wayyyyyy over his head and resign or the powers that be (and I'm not talking about the Dems here, nor am I taking about the average citizen) will relieve him of this responsibility, one way or another. A coup, be it the military or the government, is a real possibility.

Trumps impulsive demeanor combined with his total lack of governmental experience along with his child like emotional defenses when he feels that he is being treated unfairly makes him a very dangerous man, especially having the power to launch nuclear weapons. He does, however, bring a lot to the table in regards to business acumen and negotiations and he should be used as such, but he is in wayyyyy over his head and I have no doubt that if he doesn't realize that now...........he will.

This is some scary shit right here and while there are some parallels to Reagan, a Trump presidency takes it to a whole other level.

 

[gaseous_clay]

...He does, however, bring a lot to the table in regards to business acumen and negotiations and he should be used as such, but he is in wayyyyy over his head and I have no doubt that if he doesn't realize that now...........he will.

Not really. His business acumen is essentially to cut corners everywhere he can. This includes not paying bills, using illegal labor, & making everything he can overseas.

He has things set up so that he earns an excessive salary even from a failing business, then just declares bankruptcy on the company & keeps his "salary." If private citizens do this it is illegal. You can't just go buy a new car, declare bankruptcy & keep the car. But start a business & let it fail, you keep your salary and wash your hands of the business.

He also is only as successful as he presents. It is believed that he is not nearly as wealthy as he claims. Basically he is the guy who walks around flashing a roll of $100 bills that has one on top & a bunch of singles underneath.

He also doesn't pay for anything himself. That's what the trump foundation is for.

It's amazing that around the world, his name has become a detriment. His name is being removed from places wherever possible because people don't want to be associated with him. His daughter even refused to allow an ad with her to air, supposedly due to concern about how it would affect her own business.

The USA voted to drag itself down the toilet with this vile pile of meat as its leader.

For the first time, I am ashamed to live here. I am ashamed to be a part of this.

 

[GetLeft]

he is in wayyyyy over his head and I have no doubt that if he doesn't realize that now...........he will.

I was thinking that earlier. I imagine Trump looking around himself right about now and asking himself "what the heck was I thinking? Can somebody give me a drink!" It's hard to imagine him keeping a grip. But then again, no worries. He's delegating all his responsibilities to the good folks he thinks highly of as leaders.

 

[Scott A]

Lol where are the mods to warn Carol about accusing me of being to baked to have a conversation? Are you guys really to naive to believe that 60 million Americans don't agree with you?

 

[Scott A]

No

Ya know, I have a funny feeling that one of two things are going to happen here.

Either Trump, after a few weeks, will realize that he is in wayyyyyy over his head and resign or the powers that be (and I'm not talking about the Dems here, nor am I taking about the average citizen) will relieve him of this responsibility, one way or another. A coup, be it the military or the government, is a real possibility.

Trumps impulsive demeanor combined with his total lack of governmental experience along with his child like emotional defenses when he feels that he is being treated unfairly makes him a very dangerous man, especially having the power to launch nuclear weapons. He does, however, bring a lot to the table in regards to business acumen and negotiations and he should be used as such, but he is in wayyyyy over his head and I have no doubt that if he doesn't realize that now...........he will.

This is some scary shit right here and while there are some parallels to Reagan, a Trump presidency takes it to a whole other level.

Are you fucking serious? You really believe a coup attempt is possible?

 

[gaseous_clay]

This is what I hate. The bullies won. 8 years ago Mitch McConnell said it was their top priority to oppose Obama and make him a one-term president. They fought him on nearly everything. Earlier this year they flipped him a huge middle finger & decided to not even consider his Supreme Court appointment.

They got everything the wanted.

I guess this is what you do now. If you don't like it, don't work to better it. Just say "Fuck you. I get what I want no matter what."

Now this is what I fear.

The House is Republican. They write the laws.

The Senate is Republican also. They will vote for these laws.

trump doesn't care to read. He's not even interested in details. It doesn't matter what they put on his desk, if they tell him to sign it he will.

They want to deregulate the banks, allowing them to make extremely risky investments. Want a recession? This is an excellent way to start. A few people will make a lot of money. The government will have to bail them out when they blow it.

Pence believes in jailing gays who apply for marriage licenses, jailing women for abortions, and that you can electrocute the gay out of people.

They want to substantially increase military spending. The House recently ordered construction of new, expensive ships the Pentagon doesn't even want & said they would be ineffective in combat. Tough. The defense industry lobbyists want it, they get it.

They want to change the way of dealing with terrorists by just bombing the living hell out of them on foreign soil. Yay. More war. More dead people. Fighting a fundamentalism that when compared to their own social agenda seems pretty damn close. Oh, and that whole idea that you have to call it "Islamic Terrorism" is about to come on full. I guess all terrorism doesn't matter. When a right-wing nationalist kills you, apparently it's not terrorism. If a woman wears a hijab on her way to work, she's seen as a terrorist (or at least a sympathizer.)

Look at the effect their anti-immigrant, anti-gay agenda has brought out the hate in children. They are the future. They are now looking to the new leadership and acting out the hatred. Kids on the receiving end of this hatred are terrified. But hey, if you want to build a whole new generation of terrorists, what better way than to disenfranchise children, teaching them that they will never be accepted in this society, that they are considered inferior... and in many cases calling them terrorists. Label someone something long enough, they may just decide to be what you already see them as anyway.

Have you ever noticed that if you explain these things to a trump supporter they say "But Hillary!" If you bring up trump's treatment of women it's "Bill Clinton..." They never want to actually talk about the person they just put in the presidency.

There's quite a bit more, but what does it really matter what I say?