Herbie V2 by Vape Engineering - 510 dry herb vaporizer

XpeeN

Well-Known Member
I've refrained from posting much here since the product launch, as I got an embarrassing confession to make: in the end I missed the boat because I waited too much (I was concerned it would be delivered when I was away) and it turned eventually out of stock... and well, since then I must admit I'm really concerned by everything I've been reading afterwards.

This was supposed to be a finished product, but I feel I'm teleported back in time to the early BULLI and Project days! And oh boy did we hack and tinker back then in the DIY section! But that's absolutely not what I expected to find in there.

Some users, and I don't blame them, everyone has to start somewhere, seem to be completely clueless about all the subtleties and practicalities of those bloody 510 attys and their myriads of mods, firmware and what not, as well as the art and pitfalls of coil crafting. I see the same attempts and mistakes repeated again, but that's perhaps because we failed to direct them to the right sources of knowledge. It's all there on the forum, albeit sadly scattered in many places and in a not very easy to digest form...

First we got the mandatory Lithium battery safety thread >> https://fuckcombustion.com/threads/18650-battery-safety.18527/ ... Never forget how dangerous these cells can be. And if you start moding your coil(s), never ever do that on unregulated mods (ex: mech mods or using a mod in bypass mode) You really need to have over-current and short-circuit protections in place.

If you switch materials, be very careful if you use Nickel wire, many people can develop a sensitivity to it, and never ever use Titanium in power mode, this metal should be used in TC mode only. It vaporizes explosively and you really don't want to inhale those fumes.

Then we got a good resource about Mods, firmware and settings in the form of this thread >> https://fuckcombustion.com/threads/tc-box-mods-firmware-discussions-and-customizing.23742/

For those using single cell mods, do not exceed 50W unless you are really using special high discharge rate cells (i.e. higher CDR than the usual 25R/HE4/VTC5 and much higher than the 30Q/HG2/VTC6 etc) You'll be putting a lot of stress on your cell, shortening its service life and making it run hot etc. Plus 50W is already a lot of power. If you really need more, use a dual-cell mod.

For those interested in the history of how we got there with refurbished e-cigarette gear, the threads of interest in chronological order would be: BULLI, the Project (in the DIY section), then Splinter and iHeat (sharing a thorny common history), Stempod, the Glow, the Imp then Impcognito, Musa 510, the SHAMMER more recently... and of course the Herbie v1. I probably forgot some, but those were the major stepping stones for 510 dry herbs vaping. The concentrates vapes took a parallel route with notably the Divine Tribe range and the Saionara.

(sorry I'm lazy those are not links but a search using the keywords in bold restricted to thread titles should find them easily)

If I were to give you just a few pieces of advice for the Herbie v2, it would be:

1) in power mode you don't need a lot of Watts, 20-30W is plenty already. The more you use, the harder it will be to control. You will have to feather the trigger exactly like on the Milaana/MistVapeTouch/etc. In theory you should find a sweet spot where the temperature rise is exactly countered by the drop induced by your draw, allowing you to keep the trigger engaged the whole way without charring.

2) TC mode is utter crap by default on most mods excepted DNA ones. Installing a custom firmware does not fix that until you manually enable PI(D) control which is often disabled by default (excepted maybe in tubo_evic) In all cases you will have to tweak the values as the ones good for e-cig or the ones in tubo_evic are for different devices than yours.

3) do not try using the old finer SS mesh like you can find on fasttech etc, it can self-vaporize partially in no time and again you don't want to inhale that deeply. You need beefy wire, be it mesh or simple coils. Current will slowly eat away fine strands and that's not good. SS316L 20awg is a good choice, 18awg is harder to form and requires more space, 22awg works too. If you want to go Nickel-free you can test SS430.

4) contact resistance is a bitch, and even more with woven meshes. For TC to work properly, you need a rock-solid reading. Clamp your coils/mesh hard. Lock your resistance value on a cold mod at room temperature. Hammering down (literally) your mesh before folding it can improve the strand to strand contact resistance somewhat, but overall it will be harder to TC than standard coils. The 510 center pin to mod connection is also very important. Clean your contacts thoroughly and don't swap attys too often.

5) keep experimenting! Good luck!
How do you figure out what PI values are good for you, or what ratio you need between the two?
 

David Root

Well-Known Member
I took Herbi to Boston. 3 day trip. Upon arrival, first attempt with Herbie. Kept getting "shorted coil" after futzing around, I made a new coil. A few adjustments and he was working fine. Herbie went on the Orange train to Downtown.
It seems I can use it until it burns my lips, then let it cool. Been through one single battery and a pair. I have a pair of batteries left for today.

It's been a while since it has combusted. I did bring a J hook, but not carrying glass with me.

I gave up on the Paramour. There is no update for software.

For anything with artic fox, or eVic software, set your settings like suggested. Make small adjustments to coil resistance until you get the performance you want.

So, set temp to 190 C
TCR 105
Watts 40 to 60. 60 does work.
Hold button. Watch coil. It should barely glow. If not, make .005 change up or down to locked in coil resistance. Once that is accomplished, set it to 250C. It should glow pretty good.

Pack bowl and enjoy.

I was reading about eVic software. You can change TCR in 2 more spots along the curve.

David in Boston.
 

KeroZen

Chronic vapaholic
The splinter and iHeat have mesh in common, just like Herbie and many others. It seems to only be thorny for you.

Come on Alan, you know the real story was different. And I know my post will be deleted by a mod if ever I talk about that. It's a stalemate.

How do you figure out what PI values are good for you, or what ratio you need between the two?

Control loop tuning is a complex topic, some even call it an art. But you can use NFEtools device monitor, set the Y axis to have a good resolution and watch the coil live temperature graph. The goal is to get rid of any overshoot and oscillations.

First you need to tune for the initial temperature ramp-up from cold without drawing, and when you got something stable enough you can start analyzing what happens when you perturb the system by drawing and fine-tune the parameters further.

In all cases P needs to be much higher than I, like 8 times higher or more. D is only present in my_evic forks AFAIK and should be pretty low, much lower than I.
 

jasp3r

Well-Known Member
@Vape Engineering you have some customers asking questions that aren’t getting resolved.

https://www.reddit.com/r/vaporents/comments/stw3gb
FWIW I don't know alot of companies that let you use the product and send it back if it's not the vape for you. However if they said that they should honor it. It seems like public blast is the only way to get a`hold of them. I would also be very surprised if any of the product engineers actually used the product.

The best products come from people who are first, dedicated hobbyists.

Paramour mod imo gave worryingly inconsistent results with my other 510s.

That being said I sold my unit before trying it so I have refrained to comment anything negative.

Something fishy is definitely going on.
 
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sashka69

Well-Known Member
My thoughts about herbie v2 after more than a month:

My Herbie and me have come to a "agreement" . After a long time testing many different parameters we both found out the best scenario so we can work with each other. Working means, I'm satisfied with it.

He will be my best buddy for on the go or when my TM isn't available if I always follow this rules:

1. Use a suitable coil.
The oem coil is quite okay for this "agreement" but my optimized one is better so I'll continue with this one.
It's the second one (upper right).


A coil's hotspot is most of the time in the middle of it so it's not a good idea if this is straight under your load. So I prefer a coil which has its center point right in the middle of the heating chamber.
Ensure to tighten all screws appropriately so no coil resistance jumps. The shipped screwdrivers are shit, use your own if you have some.

2. The right settings on your mod.
I use my paramour and my optimized coil reads 0.13 ohm there. I set the Tcr to 1020 and the maximum wattage to 53W. The temperature is set to 180°C. No temperature stepping.

3. Use a s&b capsule and pack it wisely with herbs which have a coarse and fluffy grind.
I fill the capsule until it's full and squeeze the herbs a bit so the capsule is very good filled. Not too loose otherwise it will combust in the middle. Not too tight otherwise there is too much draw restriction which results in shitty extraction... This is the trickiest part and needs a little bit of practice! I learned, that for herbie a good packed capsule leads to less hotspots.

4. Open all air holes

5. Preheat and inhale. I press the fire button, wait for 2 seconds and then I inhale fast and steady. Before my lungs are full, I release the fire button so I can use the rest of the heat and the coil cools down so there are no "after glow cooking" hotspots.

6. After 1 or 2 hits I open the top cap and turn the capsule a quarter turn clockwise.

7. I repeat step 5 and 6 three times then I'm done. And the load is also.

Maybe someone can adopt this agreement with their own herbie.. Who knows. Maybe this helps.
 

KeroZen

Chronic vapaholic
Before my lungs are full, I release the fire button so I can use the rest of the heat and the coil cools down so there are no "after glow cooking" hotspots.

Pretty well put! It's something I've done naturally since the Zion / Milaana days but it's easy to over-look. And the more heater mass you have the more you can ride the wave down. With tiny coils like in the Impcognito you can't do it for too long for instance.

It saves energy (longer battery life) since you use residual heat instead of wasting it, and indeed it prevents the load from proximity-cooking for nothing.
 

David Root

Well-Known Member
I found darker ABV always on the near side (half) of the bowl. I now turn the outer shell 1/2 turn and get an even roast.

David.
 
David Root,
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Vape Engineering

Manufacturer
Manufacturer



Hi everybody,

Unfortunately, we had to change the transport service provider again. Many packages had enormous delivery times.Unfortunately, for some customers the tracking also did not work until abroad. Until now, we have shipped for our customers with Deutsche Post for cost reasons. Only through this it was possible for us to offer international shipping for 20€. All other options would have been significantly more expensive.
We have now decided to ship everything directly via DHL Premium to be able to offer reasonable delivery times. A price increase for shipping was not avoidable.

Furthermore, we are experimenting with new variants for the coil. We are in contact with different partners to produce a cheap and easy to use coil. As soon as we have first prototypes, we will share the results with you.

All the best,
Til
 

ChooChooCharlie

Well-Known Member
Post above ^^ verified
Quite a journey across the pond
It got hung up for a while
Herbie-journey.jpg

Not VapeEngineering's fault, it was a darn vape mail issue
Deutsche Post don't play that Volks Vape tune
(I didn't open box, sending to Uncle Vito)
 

RustyOldNail

SEARCH for the treasure...
I put mine aside for now, tried dual Clapton’s, maybe too low in the base due to short stock coil legs. Hopefully, VE will find a better solution eventually, that will make CAPSULES viable.....
 
RustyOldNail,
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Vaporware

Well-Known Member
I’m glad to see they’re working on the coils. I had more hope for V2 when it was announced and I’m sorry to see so many people struggling with it, but knowing some people have managed to tame it I hope that VE will be able to find a configuration that works easily and constantly out of the box. :)

Good luck with the coils @Vape Engineering ! :science:
 

fangorn

Well-Known Member
I put mine aside too... (even though I used it for a capsule two days ago...)
I bought another vaporizer for the car...but I'm not ready to sell my HerbieV2...when it works properly...the shape and the finish are still great!
 

David Root

Well-Known Member
I finally got a bunch of Coils. I put a pair of juggernaut coils in it.


Tried, worked well, deck got really hot after one bowl, so the coils are TOO CLOSE TO THE DECK.
I also burned through a whole battery.
It would not work in TCR mode.
I will try another set, one taller than the other.
I also got stainless wire, 1 ohm per foot.

I learned, watch the resistance as the element heats up. That is the TCR.

David
 
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Trackrat

Well-Known Member
I finally got a bunch of Coils. I put a pair of juggernaut coils in it.


Tried, worked well, deck got really hot after one bowl, so the coils are TOO CLOSE TO THE DECK.
I also burned through a whole battery.
It would not work in TCR mode.
I will try another set, one taller than the other.
I also got stainless wire, 1 ohm per foot.

I learned, watch the resistance as the element heats up. That is the TCR.

David
Thanks David, your involvement is much appreciated. Research is never ending.
 
Trackrat,

SquirrelMaster

Well-Known Member
My Herbie finally arrived in Canada on Feb. 17 at the local post office after a long journey! There were no extra fees which is always nice but be aware fellow Canadians, the shipping method used (DHL) takes quite a while.

My coils was pre-installed and snug but I made sure to really examine everything and noticed it was touching the lower screen (longer folds and legs). I removed the coil, flattened it with a rolling pin and re-made it according to https://fuckcombustion.com/threads/...-dry-herb-vaporizer.51996/page-9#post-1621021
I was able to tighten the screws a little more than they had arrived with my own Allen keys. With the two mini drivers that came, the larger for the base works ok but the other was rounded and does not work.

I swapped out the stock flimsy screens to some heavier gauge pieces I had lying around, though I think doubling them up would probably be fine. I didn't even try the included glass balls as I've found 4mm to be the lowest size I like when it comes to cleaning. Speaking of cleaning, I did a once over on the top portions with ISO, then rinsed with water and blow dried clean. There wasn't any "gunk" found but I picked up a couple metal fibers with my q-tip that I suspect came from screens. As with every other device out there, I highly recommend a good clean before using.

With the housing removed I did some quick tests at 40w on my seperately purchased Mechlyfe Paramour SBS (with a Molicel 26A) which resulted in some smoke from the coil. I think I had picked up a piece of lint so after 2 pulses at 35w and then 30w, I blew off the coil and it fine. The coil started to change to gold at first but the discoloration did not continue as I dropped the wattage. Next I went into TCR, set it at 1020 (iirc) and put my temp to 350°F. I held the button until it timed out a couple times and then did the same at 420°F and with no fumes detected I knew it was good to go.

My first and only bowl so far was some CBD herb starting at 350°F and ending at 420°F. My garage is just above freezing right now so I kept the intake holes just barely open and my draw slow and had a good 6-7 tokes before I dumped. I am satisfied with the results so far and the whole package looks and feels really good.
 

David Root

Well-Known Member
Crickets....

I have been using home made coils. My second attempt. 316L 24 ga wire 7 wraps, 2 coils in an x one over top of the other.
As high as 79 watts in temp control.
Next time I make the coils, I need to cut 2 pieces of wire the same length so they both glow the same. probably 8 wraps. I had to add my little diffuser, or it would combust. Been using it that way for a week Going to try a set of Stempod coils.
The stock material works fine, but needs to be shortened and some kind of diffuser.

Edit: if the mesh looks crappy strands sticking out etc, get rid of it. It makes funny ohm measurements. and sometimes they drift.
Make a new coil and move on. I re made a few, but would be nice to have more mesh. What I bought was too fine, so the wire.

It woks great with a J hook or some kind of water.

For me its a success. fidgjity, but fun. It delivers the goods.
Dosing capsules work great. Especially with water. They do restrict the draw a little, so less heat.
I load then with .2g. They weigh .09 less when done.
I will always need to turn the unit clockwise to get an even roast. Usually 1/2 turn, but it does not really matter. It just slides on the O rings., I lube them with a little dyna wax.

Nice to be able to make it look new with a little ISO.

David
 
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Shit Snacks

Milaana. Lana. LANA. LANAAAAA! (TM/FW7/OAB/CC-H&A)
Getting some items for a stempod from Alan at Toasty Top.
He offered me a set of his coils that may work in Herbie. He also has an idea for a different mouth piece.

I am ALL IN! :D
I am going to try.
David

Interesting, trying to put iHeat parts in a StemPod and Herbie... Curious if maybe I should ask him to send me some of that stuff with my HI order then... Specced up?
 
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