Have we reached the portable end game?

[guyonthecouch]

You know what would be cool is a Desktop/portable combo. Think of the Nintendo Switch.

Minivap

 

[west-elec]

Back before the company died, iPuffUSA supposedly had some sort of dock in the works for the Elevape that would have allowed it to fill bags of vapor for home use!

Do you mean the elevape smart?, that takes me back. If that vape had kept evolving until today it would be a big part of this thread. Nice little unit, I remember some sweet vapour, cool little ritual draw and tap...draw and tap...
Cant imagine how you could convert that to fill bags, that might have helped bankrupt them.

 

[sunyata]

I think one has to separate the whole endgame idea from the perfect smoker converter vape. As many have pointed out, in Europe spliffs are frequently rolled with tobacco which adds another addictive layer of complexity, and people are also really different in the aspects they enjoy about smoking. Like I loved to roll spliffs, particularly L-rolls. I didn't even buy king sized papes, I preferred tinkering and building by myself. So, surprise surprise, I love tinkering with vapes, modding bits and pieces, and I love vapes that require skill. Which is why say the mighty is utterly unappealing to me. But I see people here and on reddit who just want to not have to think about it, ideally the bowl change doesn't take more than 5sec, and go. And in all honesty, good for them. I haven't tried some of the crazier heavy hitters out there, but I'm reasonably sure that for most you can likely achieve comparable hits with a sticky brick and a fuckton of skill. It's just less simple and somewhat less consistent depending on your torch etc. So people pay the premium for the simplicity and consistency.

I think it's easy to think up the one vape to rule them all though. It is roughly the size of a spliff, it is light yet sturdy, it has 10+bowls worth of battery, batteries are easily replacable so you can carry spares, it takes anywhere from 0.05 to 0.5 off herb, you can clear a bowl in 12ish tasty, fluffy session style hits or 1-3 crazy on demand hits, the vapour is never too hot but always super smooth, the mouthpiece doesn't get hot, the entire path the air takes is nothing but glass, it easily connects to a water pipe, reloading is clean, easy and done in seconds, it can be personalised and modded to everyone's liking, and it is made out of mithril. And it costs 50$ with a lifetime warranty and all CS is done by elfs.

 

[cptofnthng]

i'll have one of those sir.
50 Dollar seems fair game. elves should work for love only.

 

[btka]

To be honest I do not think it is endgame for portables there is so much to improove but in the past it was more a design thing at the end the heating technology used in most portables are more or less the same, mostly form factor is different.

There is a lot to improove:

1.) for example better dosing one thing I do not like at vapes is that the taste of vapor is away after one or two hits and then it does not taste so good, this can be solved with dosing, so the vape uses only the amount of herb to give you one great tasty cloudy hit (the right microdose to say).
I never was a friend of vapes where you load more then 0.1 or 0.2 g and take several hits, as mentioned before taste is away after one hit.

2.) also a solution where you do not have to draw on your vape for 15 or 20 seconds to get vapor, this is akward and also not very stealthy.
for example with my flowerpot and the right glas (bong) I need maybe 5 to 6 sec. to milk the bubbler, so this should be possible to do.

3.) better battery life

4.) avoiding to hot vapor (for example grasshopper I liked a lot but the vapor on higer setting is so hot you can not (I can not) use it native I need a bubbler or so to cool vapor, in my opinion hopper has a great heating tech but sometimes I think there biggest goal was to make a vape which looks like a pen. do not understand why they did not change do anything for this problem in IO)

I am really interessted who will bring a portable vape on the market which works like smoking a j. that should be the goal, then you will convert a lot of smokers. -> big clouds, efficient on your herb, good taste from first cloud to last, not akwardly taking 15 to 20 second pulls, good battery life, built with safe materials.

Imo the difference between the flowerpot and portables is convection versus conduction. The ability to instantly remove the heat from the material makes the vaping experience much more pleasant and efficient. All of the handhelds i've ever used worked on a principle of conduction. The Ghost was supposed to be the first convection handheld. So imo it's not all about miniaturizing the batteries. sorry for the rambling

no there are a lot of convection portable vapes the biggest difference is the hot mass from flowerpot I think... what I mean when you take a draw from flowerpot it will not cool down because of your hit bbecause it is a big mass of titanium... in portable vapes you do not have this and one of the challanges is to keep the temp of heater not too much fluctuating (especialy convecion vapes)...

 

[Kins]

Are carts any better than an e-nail or a rig and torch?. How efficient are they?

 

[Vaporware]

Cartridge systems are a lot more efficient if you’re talking about battery life, but the ones I’ve had are all harder on my throat than dry herb and I think the effects are better with straight flower/hash/etc.

I attribute that mostly to the extraction process losing compounds they’re not targeting, but there could be another explanation.

They also clog on me a lot which is annoying, and if the cartridge cracks or leaks it can waste a lot of material or make it difficult to salvage. I have several clogged or cracked cartridges I keep avoiding dealing with because I’m not sure what to do with them.

 

[Kins]

Cartridge systems are a lot more efficient if you’re talking about battery life, but the ones I’ve had are all harder on my throat than dry herb and I think the effects are better with straight flower/hash/etc.

I attribute that mostly to the extraction process losing compounds they’re not targeting, but there could be another explanation.

They also clog on me a lot which is annoying, and if the cartridge cracks or leaks it can waste a lot of material or make it difficult to salvage. I have several clogged or cracked cartridges I keep avoiding dealing with because I’m not sure what to do with them.

Just purchased my first cart. Trying out now. It's Birthday Cake from Pamolab. So far it seems to work very well. I still like the taste better with my e-nail. Oh I wasn't talking about battery life, I meant it as a question if it wastes concentrates or not?. Because I think my e-nail is super efficient because I can get huge clouds and lots of hits at low temps and with a dab half the size of a grain of rice. Anyone here try using distalit(sp?) in an e-nail?. I've seen some oral syringes with distalit being sold at a few dispensaries....

 

[invertedisdead]

I think it's easy to think up the one vape to rule them all though. It is roughly the size of a spliff, it is light yet sturdy, it has 10+bowls worth of battery, batteries are easily replacable so you can carry spares, it takes anywhere from 0.05 to 0.5 off herb, you can clear a bowl in 12ish tasty, fluffy session style hits or 1-3 crazy on demand hits, the vapour is never too hot but always super smooth, the mouthpiece doesn't get hot, the entire path the air takes is nothing but glass, it easily connects to a water pipe, reloading is clean, easy and done in seconds, it can be personalised and modded to everyone's liking, and it is made out of mithril. And it costs 50$ with a lifetime warranty and all CS is done by elfs.

What you describe is basically a rosin cartridge.
One half gram cart is ~7 grams of flower. No loading, no stirring, no AVB. You can use it like a joint, you can connect it to a bong, you can connect a USB battery bank or charger and now its a desktop. We're honestly not even close to doing this in a dry herb device.

The comparison to current cartridge tech would be like building a Dynavap, a Dynastash, and an induction heater, all into one on demand pen sized device.

As you note the price is a major factor here as well. The cost of entry for a cartridge is like $20 for a battery. One might spend hundreds on a modern dry herb portable to get into vaporizing - if they are able to grow their own green or have a bud who does, it becomes much easier to justify investing in a flower vaporizer, but for people who depend on a dispensery for their goods, it can be harder to justify the purchase.

It's worth mentioning that the cartridge is just a vaporizer - the oil inside can be produced in many different ways, some less favorable and desirable than others. Distillate with Lemon Pledge floor cleaner terps is never going to be as tasty or potent as live hash rosin carts, or liquid live resin. But they do take more due dilligence than other cannabis products, as there are lots of variations.

 

[Kins]

Well my opinion as a first timer with carts is that it's extremely convenient. However the hits are still pretty rough and make me cough a lot. E nail hits much harder also.

 

[Shit Snacks]

Well my opinion as a first timer with carts is that it's extremely convenient. However the hits are still pretty rough and make me cough a lot. E nail hits much harder also.

If you are using carts, and it has a preheat function on the battery, I recommend using that for your hits because it is the lowest possible voltage... I only ever use that or the lowest setting, anything else is typically too hot... I also don't like the draw activated pens since they don't give you as much control.

 

[seki]

You know what would be cool is a Desktop/portable combo. Think of the Nintendo Switch.

Sort of already exists if you think about the iHeat with an InstaHeat base. You just need a mod box to take it on the go.

If you squint really hard, you can also convince yourself that a Hopper IO with a MaxVapor power adapter and a set of GHB3 batteries sort of fills that niche too, although admittedly in both of these cases going between the two modes isn't as easy or convenient as putting on and removing a Switch from a dock.

edit:

Minivap

I completely forgot about the Minivap. This is totally the Vape equivalent of a Switch.

 

[Siebter]

To have a shot at converting them they NEED to get into vaping by accidentally combusting and then dial it down from there.

Hmmm... not me. If my first test device (the MFLB) would have combusted on me, I wouldn't have tried it again. Why do we need a device that does exactly the same as we did before only more complicated?

It took a few months for me to switch completely, but vaping actually instantly worked for me. For me to be able to switch old habits, the alternative has to be not only about as nice as what I used to do, but massively *better*. Getting high with vaping was never an issue for me (and I'm pretty sure that the often observed phenomena of people not getting high from a vape is 20% user error and 80% mental blocks), but what made me love this way of enjoying flower right away was the flavor. That was something I was never able to experience when smoking at all, and I wanted to experience it again and again.

Wouldn't have worked with a device that initially would combust and then have to be dialed down.

As others have mentioned, we shouldn't rate „end game“ devices by their ability to convert smokers. A vaporizer by itself will not decide for you to switch or not, there's still some strong willpower needed.

 

[Bologna]

Now for the real truth bomb that people don't want to hear:
VAS comes from unsatisfying vapor.

People that are thrilled with their current vaporizers aren't going around buying every new market release. They simply aren't. Most modern VAS is just camouflage for people with high tolerance, hoping to find a magic bullet of a vaporizer that will prevent them from taking a tolerance break.

While being both logical and obvious (and realists are always called pessimists...) and therefore common, I also feel that plenty of people here are simply hobbyists that enjoy experimenting and mixing things up (yes, I pretty much only use my VC(s) these days, but within that realm...) and could just as easily blow their money on anything else... and then there's the whole "medicine" thing, don't forget... and many people use for many different reasons, and many forms of "mental illness" I'd ASSuME are pretty high on the list....

 

[BrianTL]

WI also feel that plenty of people here are simply hobbyists that enjoy experimenting and mixing things up (yes, I pretty much only use my VC(s) these days, but within that realm...) and could just as easily blow their money on anything else...

I'm pretty sure this is what drives my VAS. I've always been like that - had one thing in my mind I obsess over for a length of time and then move on to something else. Some things come and go, some stick around but in a less-obsessive capacity and more of a hobby. Oddly enough, all of them are giant money pits lol.

When I got my first vape, it was pretty much like @Siebter described, the instant realization that you can actually taste your flower made me never want to smoke again. I never did, actually. I may have taken a hit or two from a J being passed around and accidentally combusted in my vape, but never set out with the intentions of smoking.

Then I found FC, looking for help because all I had read was that vaping is much more efficient than smoking - but as a generally lightweight (IMO) but nightly user, my actual consumption rate doubled. Once I got here, I realized how many different devices there are and different construction/use all of this other shit I never realized. Previously I had pretty much only been exposed to the google search results for "best vape" and the reddit r/vaporents thing. The google lists, looking back, have nothing on them that I am really interested in. Leafly write ups, High Times write ups, random weed blogs, they're all echo chambers for the same shit. r/vaporents was hit or miss but idk. Not really my thing.

I've never been a big monster hit, giant bong ripping, stoned to the bone type of guy so in my case I know it's not me seeking a "replacement" hit from a joint or anything. Actually, smoking tends to make me feel really shitty if I have more than a few puffs. Which was another thing that made me obsess over vaping, I can actually enjoy it without being so nervous about crossing that line, and if I did have too much it wasn't going to put me on my bathroom floor which smoking had done to me a few times. When I accidentally combusted in my vapbong a couple weeks ago, it was pretty touch and go until it started to wear off.

 

[Duba]

As others have mentioned, we shouldn't rate „end game“ devices by their ability to convert smokers. A vaporizer by itself will not decide for you to switch or not, there's still some strong willpower needed.

agreed.

Well, reading all of you, I come to the conclusion (more complex than my first idea) that VAS is real because it's a subtle mix of different things :
-unsatisfied smokers looking for an endgame
-medical use
-another consumerist jail
-experience
-obsession

It's interesting because I feel myself a little bit of all this at once, so I'm not done with VAS yet.
In the same time, I feel better now because i tought i was just an unsatisfied prisoner but i also have my assumed "mental illness"...

 

[maremaresing]

Hmmm... not me. If my first test device (the MFLB) would have combusted on me, I wouldn't have tried it again. Why do we need a device that does exactly the same as we did before only more complicated?

It took a few months for me to switch completely, but vaping actually instantly worked for me. For me to be able to switch old habits, the alternative has to be not only about as nice as what I used to do, but massively *better*. Getting high with vaping was never an issue for me (and I'm pretty sure that the often observed phenomena of people not getting high from a vape is 20% user error and 80% mental blocks), but what made me love this way of enjoying flower right away was the flavor. That was something I was never able to experience when smoking at all, and I wanted to experience it again and again.

Wouldn't have worked with a device that initially would combust and then have to be dialed down.

As others have mentioned, we shouldn't rate „end game“ devices by their ability to convert smokers. A vaporizer by itself will not decide for you to switch or not, there's still some strong willpower needed.

This is similar for me. While the actual device that converted me was the VG, my first device was the mflb. It worked instantly for me, and filled the portable role well for years.

The only thing that held me back from full conversion was strength of hits and effects. MFLB would give me the effects, but was hard to get a big rip. EQ never gave me good effects, but could give big rips. DBV gave me both, consistantly, and I never looked back.

If I had started with a VG I probably would have kicked combustion from day 1.

 

[Bologna]

Hmmm... not me. If my first test device (the MFLB) would have combusted on me, I wouldn't have tried it again. Why do we need a device that does exactly the same as we did before only more complicated?

It took a few months for me to switch completely, but vaping actually instantly worked for me. For me to be able to switch old habits, the alternative has to be not only about as nice as what I used to do, but massively *better*. Getting high with vaping was never an issue for me (and I'm pretty sure that the often observed phenomena of people not getting high from a vape is 20% user error and 80% mental blocks), but what made me love this way of enjoying flower right away was the flavor. That was something I was never able to experience when smoking at all, and I wanted to experience it again and again.

Wouldn't have worked with a device that initially would combust and then have to be dialed down.

As others have mentioned, we shouldn't rate „end game“ devices by their ability to convert smokers. A vaporizer by itself will not decide for you to switch or not, there's still some strong willpower needed.

My first device was (isssssomewhere?) the MFLB, it alone wasn't enough to completely convert me, and not cuz I was unable to make it provide, no, I loved that lil bastard (maybe not dealing w/the batts so much). It was mostly cuz it SUCKED to share, especially with more than one other person. That thing is no fun for the uninitiated (initiated, too, cuz it can be such a chore to have please others....), let alone skeptics... which then make it even more annoying. Single person or maybe one other well-seasoned user only with that one, imo... still miss it!

It took until I got an MV-1 and VC to easily provide the mind-bending "persuasion" to at least eventually shut everyone up. Once I tried them, tho, I never looked back.... not for a second.

 

[Texus]

MFLB was my entry to vaping too. But it didn't really take. What sold me was a Dynavap. And if we are talking endgame portable (but not pocketable), if you can look past the battery life, Tafee Bowle might be the one (for vapor quality, cup is a lovely bonus that is a more awesome part of the overall experience than I expected).

 

[Vaporware]

I don’t really think we’re close to the best possible way to vaporize flower yet (and I’m not sure I know what that will even be), but if there was an ultimate portable it would have to at least pocketable in my opinion.

I do use portables part of the time at home too and I am interested in the Bowle because of what people say about its performance, but I’m fine with desktops for home use. One of the main requirements for me in what I would consider a portable is that it fits in my pocket comfortably.

In the right situations I could wander around with a Bowle, but at some point I know I’d wish I could get it out of my hand without worrying about it, and it’s not something I could just have in my pocket ready to go anywhere at any time.

Different people have different priorities though, so I’m not sure we’ll ever have one that’s perfect for everyone.

 

[west-elec]

Yeah the Bowle is a cordless vaporizer, not a portable. There is a difference and the Bowle is the best cordless I have tried but it lacks criteria needed for a true portable, so is out of place in this thread.
Also out of place would be a comment that the Bowle battery life is actually excellent, when you think of it as a cordless. More than enough for that session by the pool, once the drink is gone so is the battery and so is your sobriety.

 

[MinnBobber]

I call the Bowle a backpack or purse portable vs pocket portable vapes.

 

[Bologna]

For me it's:

Devices w/o cords = "Cordless"
Reasonably Pocket-able devices = "Portable"

I'd be more than happy to provide any further detail...

 

[justcametomind]

Portable end game will be close if/when we'll have a DIY/multibrand on demand device that's as easy to use and and effective, and as sturdy as a miniVAP. Price under 50$.
I'd love to see what happens if/when big players patents will expire.

 

[Ramahs]

I also feel that plenty of people here are simply hobbyists that enjoy experimenting and mixing things up

I have a Flowerpot VROD, and I recently bought my third Woodscents log.
There's definitely a hobbyist aspect to it.