Gulf Sadness.

[bcleez]

Yes Oil does leak to the surface naturally and the earth deals with it, the thing is that humans interfere with all the processes by fishing, polluting, etc.

I hope a positive that comes out of this is sky high prices for seafood. Seafood is a delicacy and should not be treated like an every day food. (I don't eat seafood and rarely eat meat due to the environmental impact)

 

[Derf]

Yes Oil does leak to the surface naturally and the earth deals with it, the thing is that humans interfere with all the processes by fishing, polluting, etc.

I hope a positive that comes out of this is sky high prices for seafood. Seafood is a delicacy and should not be treated like an every day food. (I don't eat seafood and rarely eat meat due to the environmental impact)

Unfortunately it will probably just mean that we buy more of our fish from China, Chile, or some other area of the globe instead of from our own farmers.
But don't worry, according to this article, we've fished out 80% of the world's oceans, and we'll soon see the marginalization of seafood because it won't be profitable for large corporations to run big boats catching tons of fish to stock in every super market. They'll continue to come up more and more empty handed until it wont even be profitable to go out any more.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tedtalks/jeremy-jackson-how-we-wre_b_564447.html

 

[bcleez]

Ha, I would never eat food from China, talk about pollution.

 

[StickyShisha2]

did you hear about the oily substance raining down on Louisiana?
http://jalopnik.com/5570961/its-raining-oil-in-louisiana

 

[ttomo]

did you hear about the oily substance raining down on Louisiana?
http://jalopnik.com/5570961/its-raining-oil-in-louisiana

I cannot get any of the jalopnik links to work at this time, but here's huffington quoting them a bit. (their jalopnik link also doesn't work.) gross tho
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/23/raining-oil-in-louisiana_n_622815.html

 

[StickyShisha2]

"COULD BP'S DISPERSANTS CAUSE APOCALYPTIC RAINS?BIRDS AND VEGETATION ARE DYING"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yvh7JfaLXqQ

news stories like this are making me sick. I need to stop looking at or thinking about this stuff for a while as some of my medical problems are beginning to show symptoms again.

 

[stickstones]

I'm with you shisha...it's like one of those shows where people are getting into accidents...I just can't look.

The rain doesn't surprise me at all. I've been telling people in Florida that more problems begin when a hurricane goes through the gulf and dumps this shitty rain all over the eastern and central US.

 

[Lo]

My husband already swears there was something in the rain we had here last week here in FL. It's been dry as hell and the rain was much needed but he says there was a residue left behind

This whole thing makes me so fucking ill just thinking about it.

 

[reece]

did you hear about the oily substance raining down on Louisiana?
http://jalopnik.com/5570961/its-raining-oil-in-louisiana

I've spoken to people in New Orleans and none of them has seen anything of the sort. My mom and grandmother live 5 minutes from River Ridge and it has been raining hard. No oil on their skin, houses, or cars. I spoke with a friend that lives a bit farther away, still in New Orleans, and he has seen nothing, though he has been smelling something for a while now, even before others noticed any odor.

None of them have seen anything more than the normal sheen that develops on the asphalt when heavy rain loosens the oil that is already on the street.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VfypUzx1tI&feature=player_embedded#
this video claims to have a simple solution to fix this. its been around forever. i'm assuming its just being ignored because cleaning or fixing the problem is not on the agenda.

Is this the only information you have viewed/read on the subject? That video says there is no downside to using this method. Others disagree, but the video doesn't mention them or the the basis of their disagreement. Also, BP and gov't are not ignoring this option. The video is 3 months older than the article I've linked to below. So maybe they weren't considering it at the time, or maybe it is just another falsehood being put out there like the gov't isn't accepting help from other nations and won't waive the Jones Act blah blah.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/06/17/96092/bps-gulf-leak-boosts-interests.html

Can the naturally occurring microbes help clean up the oil spill? Yes, experts say. At least in part, with some risk.

Officials are taking note. Florida Gov. Charlie Crist on Thursday visited a Sarasota company that sells microbes that eat oil.

BP says it's open to using them.

And the federal government this week is contacting its pre-approved list of more than a dozen companies to see how quickly they can ramp up production. Scientists call the process bioremediation.

... Still, scientists caution that bioremediation is only a partial solution. It's best used on sandy beaches and in salt marshes after the thickest oil has been removed by bulldozer and shovel. It's never been tried before in deep water or open ocean.

And it runs some risk of damaging the very waters it's meant to rescue. Some scientists say it may be better at times to let nature take its course.

Jay Grimes, a microbiologist at the University of Southern Mississippi, is a fan of the process: "It could help a lot. It was used in the Alaska oil spill [from the Exxon Valdez in 1989]. It worked very well on the rocky shores.''

Bioremediation can't do the whole job, said Chris Reddy, marine chemist at Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution in Massachusetts.

"The idea that microbes can come in and clean house from A to Z is not likely,'' he said. "What they can do on their own time is eat some compounds and play an important role in the cleanup.''

BP says it's looking into bioremediation. "Potentially we could do it, but we would need approval from the EPA,'' spokesman Tristan Vanhegan said Wednesday. "Typically it's not done until the oil has stopped flowing.''

The federal government is working on possible bioremediation efforts. The EPA has created a National Contingency Plan Product Schedule listing more than 20 biological agents approved for use in encouraging microbes to attack oil spills. And the USDA's Natural Resources Conservation Service is contacting the companies that make them to see how quickly they can ramp up production.

...But there's a danger. Add too much fertilizer and you can create blooms of algae that use up all the oxygen in the surrounding water, creating "dead zones.'' There's already a 6,000-square-mile dead zone in the Gulf off the mouth of the Mississippi River, created years ago by the same fertilizers washing down from upriver farms. "It's pretty big and pretty scary,'' said Jim Spain, professor of environmental engineering at Georgia Tech.


Scientists differ over the success of past bioremediations.

In Alaska after the 1989 Exxon Valdez spill...

Atlas says, and a 1991 EPA after-action report confirms, that the fertilizer increased the degradation of the oil three- to five-fold, with no damage to the environment.

"The beaches became visually cleaner,'' the report said.

Hazen, who studied the project, has a different conclusion. He says the bioremediation of the sound with phosphorous and nitrogen wrought severe long-term damage to its ecology.

"We took a low-nutrition environment and added lots of fertilizer. The phosphorous created nuisance algae.''

Another potential problem is that when microbes eat oil, a byproduct is carbon dioxide a greenhouse gas. In an area as large as the Gulf, could it be enough to hurt the ozone layer?

"We don't have that answer,'' Grimes said.

 

[bcleez]

Lo - Saw some boom already laid across tampa bay on my way to and from the airport. Heard they are flying up and down the coast in the Venice Area.

 

[Ed's TnT]

I am here in Mississippi, bout three hours from the coast. I have family down there who also say they have never seen anything like this. I watch Fox News quite alot and all they show at commercial time are BP reps talking about how they are working hard to fix this and gonna be around for as long as it takes to clean up the mess. My wife has a sorry no good cousin that live down there in Hancock County, he and his girlfriend work for BP cleaning up the tarballs and such. They say that they get paid $12 an hour to sit in a AC bus near by the beach, watching for small balls of tar and oil to wash up on the beach, they spot the stuff, put on their gear and run out to it and collect it, throw it in a bag and haul ass back to the bus where its cool. I know that these two are completely worthless and probably not worth killing, I can only imagine just how much of a difference they are making.

Time will tell just how long BP will be around, but with our fine President and government I am sure they wont be in business long.

Mississippi is lucky, we only have 3 counties on the Gulf Coast, but the 4 gulf states are gonna be in a mess for a long time to come. My thoughts and prayers are for them and us all.

 

[bluntfaced]

some gulf hip hop about this travesty

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCTn9tqU-mE&feature=player_embedded

 

[bcleez]

But then Mississippi is also unlucky, well... because it's still Mississippi.

 

[purplechango]

Ok so at some point in my life I actually had what I thought was a good job with a unkillable trading firm(the ask why company).....my life has move on way past all that shiz, but I did learn a lot about crude oil and derivatives........


So lemme put the target on cause i might draw fire here

Yes this is like the most gi-norms oil spill ever, and

Yes it is alot of oil going into the water, but is it really bad?

I say it's not as bad as it's being steamrollered into. Why? Cause the shit that's pumping into the water is natural, earth made "crude" oil.........get it?

Its not the stuff that's falling out of your leaky car on the freeway and driveway each day.......the stuff pumping into the water has not been refined yet


Think about this........try pouring a bathtub full of water into a 2oz shot glass......do ant quite fit does it?

Now reverse reverse

Pour the 2oz shot glass into an empty bathtub, Shot glass liquid will pretty much not do anything for the bath tub except leave a water spot....


Now go back to the oil leak........not a spill.....yes it ws a bad oil cap or whatever but it's a leak......cause it's coming from a natural producing well there are no pumps pushing the oil out its just flowing on it's own...

Anyway leaks like this happen in nature all the time...... How do you think humans discovered oil. It bubbled up out the ground and viola


Anywayback to the earlier example.....


So we are talking about a natural "crude" oil, flowing out of natural flow well, pumping say less than a 1 percent ratio to the water surrounding it.

The natural state of things is for the oil to just dissipate. Any human interaction might just eff things up more than they are.


Burning of the top layer will do what! Cause smoke pollution and other possible problems,

More than anything all these businesses clainingg business loss in this time might have some validity to their claims,, but the truth is that lots of thesebusinesses were already struggling....

And oh yeah that 20 billion set aside in Escrow.........get ready to pay for that yourself; Athe pump

 

[lwien]

I say it's not as bad as it's being steamrollered into. Why? Cause the shit that's pumping into the water is natural, earth made "crude" oil.........get it?

So is magma. Just because it's "earth made" doesn't mean that I want hot lava flowing into my front yard.......get it?

Yes, oil does seep up thru the sea bed in the gulf........naturally, and in the quantities that seep up naturally, things get pretty well taken care of by nature itself in pretty short order.

This is NOT natural seepage. This is a fucking geyser that WE tapped into and released. It's NOT a natural well, as you say. We fucking drilled it. Will nature eventually take care of it? Sure she will, but at what cost in the form of animal deaths, human deaths, financial losses, etc , etc, etc ?

And in regards to business that were struggling before, but are now devastated, what was your point?

 

[reece]

Wow. It really sounds like you're saying let's not do anything about it, including measures to prevent oil from damaging the environment and wildlife as well as efforts to ensure the party at fault pays for the damage done and the cleanup.

To paraphrase Prince, Lwien, eventually is a mighty long time.

You are dead on regarding natural seepage. This is certainly not natural seepage. I'd like to see examples of natural seepage that looks the same as this. There must be some evidence of this for purplechango to make such a claim.

 

[bluntfaced]

And you know this from you experience trading derivatives?

I'm sorry dude, that was the biggest string of bullshit I have read about the oil spill to date.

This shit is not natural and you can see the lasting devastation it is causing, you can only see a small fraction of it because investigative journalists are surely being kept far away from it.

I'm so sick of hearing this "oh it's a big ocean it will clean it's self" bullshit. Mother nature can handle what mother nature dishes out and as much as you like to think we are not just part of nature the fact is we have a much bigger responsibility to the planet that that.

You know what I mean? With great power comes great responsibility.

 

[purplechango]

ok first off , im not defending BIG OIL .........so there


now to defend my position.

1. there are no pumps down there........... at all. the pressure built up beneath the earth is well enough alone to push the oil up w/o an of our help thats for sure, i dont claim we didnt make the hole, nor do i deny that there will eventually be metric tons of "crude" not refined oil spilled, but again we are talking about a drop in the ocean.

2. no im not say that we shouldnt do anything about it, the reason we are here in the first place is the elected officials we put in place allowed for these events to occur bby turning a blind eye in the past. so if we dont want things to happen again, which they will(history always repeats itself....ill elaborate later), then vote

3. now for all of us talking the self-ritous talk about the evils of big oil(again not in their defense) , and how if we hadnt done the diggin then we would be better off......welll all i gotta say......ITS YOUR FAULT......everything and i mean everything that you put your hands on today, regardless of how "green" it is, has some type of material derived from oil......... the argument that we might be producing corn based oil to dampen the crude oil craze is a farse.....its a technology in its infancy crude oil is still by far the biggest prodecer of any materials we use today.

some products derived from oildont take my word for it google it)
*ink in your pens

*upholstery

* medicine capsules

*Antihistamines

*Refrigerators

* Toilet Seats

*Hand Lotion

* Toothbrushes & Toothpaste

* Aspirin

*Soft Contact lenses

*Deodorant

* Cameras

* and the reason most all of us are on this forum.......just about everyone's vape has some material in it that is derived from oil


4. as for the struggling business bit, just letting you know that lots of these businesses were not doing so hot before the blow out, and that you shouldnt feel comfort in the fact that 20billion has been set aside to shut people up, cause in the end we will pay for it by buying mor oil based products


Now how is it that purplechango can look at this horrific situation and not be over dazzled to the point of having an emotional meltdown over it? History repeats itself...............

I.e. 1979, Gulf Of Mexico, Ixtoc I exploratory blow out, similar situation . with estimate flows of about the same count....... and it took about a year and change to cap.

not even ten years after the blow out reports of food species repopulating were being reported and also no large long term effects. like with any other disaster there was loss of life and destruction of all kinds of animal life, but today we didnt even remember it happened until of course ...................

 

[purplechango]

And you know this from you experience trading derivatives?

I'm so sick of hearing this "oh it's a big ocean it will clean it's self" bullshit. Mother nature can handle what mother nature dishes out

this world was here before you, and it will more than likely be here after you. Its gone thru way bigger cataclysmic events than we can imagine , so i dont think this itty bitty oil spill is the worlds biggest concern

and as much as you like to think we are not just part of nature the fact is we have a much bigger responsibility to the planet that that.

where in my wordings do you see that i see myself as not part of nature..... ashes to ashes dust to dust....... we are all made of the same guts.

You know what I mean? With great power comes great responsibility.

an yes i do, thats why we should never grow complacent with what is being told to us and dig deeper than what the rest of the world is telling us, you might discover that the stuff you see is just a diversion

 

[bluntfaced]

Not to mention all the food we eat that is corn and soy based (or corn and soy fed) is grown with fertilizers made from oil. I like where you're coming from now man, I can appreciate the perspective you're giving the situation.

However, if you think simply voting will make any difference as far as corporate oil lobbiests go you are sadly mistaken. They have seduced the entirety of out political system.

Abolishing the ridiculous idea of corporate personhood under the 14th amendment, putting an end to all corporate financing of any political campaign and putting a very small (in relation to current spending) cap on campaigns might be a start. Simply voting though, will not solve any problems, if you haven't noticed yet, the entire system is rigged. If you see a problem with your government, it is not your right but your responsibility to do everything in your power to stop it.


My beef with your original statement was that it sounded like the message you were trying to get across was everything is fine, no big deal. I totally agree that burning off the oil sounds like a terrible idea, I'm no expert, but it sounds to me as well that it would do more damage than good. That said, I think we really need to get our best minds at work figuring out how to do the best possible damage control we can. Holding BP responsible does mean they can pay some fools off and everything will be okay.

 

[purplechango]

Not to mention all the food we eat that is corn and soy based (or corn and soy fed) is grown with fertilizers made from oil. I like where you're coming from now man, I can appreciate the perspective you're giving the situation.

However, if you think simply voting will make any difference as far as corporate oil lobbiests go you are sadly mistaken. They have seduced the entirety of out political system.

Abolishing the ridiculous idea of corporate personhood under the 14th amendment, putting an end to all corporate financing of any political campaign and putting a very small (in relation to current spending) cap on campaigns might be a start. Simply voting though, will not solve any problems, if you haven't noticed yet, the entire system is rigged. If you see a problem with your government, it is not your right but your responsibility to do everything in your power to stop it.

My beef with your original statement was that it sounded like the message you were trying to get across was everything is fine, no big deal. I totally agree that burning off the oil sounds like a terrible idea, I'm no expert, but it sounds to me as well that it would do more damage than good. That said, I think we really need to get our best minds at work figuring out how to do the best possible damage control we can. Holding BP responsible does mean they can pay some fools off and everything will be okay.

we need to have voices, dont get me wrong, and im not sayi ng that voting is the key, I really wasnt even tryin to defend or oppose, I was merely stating facts that people choose to ignore.

But i cant deny that this nation will not ever not do with out oil. at least not till it runs out, and we are closer to that than we think. it will be sad day when we we become dependent on alternative energy, not because of the idea, but because it will call for us to put our standard of living back.. The only real way is for america to cut back, whichwe probably wont , we are a nation of I WAN IWANT IWANT.....just look at the waiting list for the PD or any other hyped up vape


its gonna take more than voting, idealism, or anything for that matter, we as a nation have to learn to give up things if not all we are doing is talking shit

Some one told me once:

Dont talk about it, be about it.......so far myself included, all i see is alot of talk


but as for me just read my sig...

 

[lwien]

It's not just our problem, but a world problem. Huge percentages of oil that get drilled off our shores go to other countries. While voting to find alternative resources, in the long run, makes a lot of sense, in the short run, it's about having the necessary safety procedures in place to either stop something like this from ever happening again, or at least, have the know-how and assets ready at hand to mitigate it.

Don't know how many of you watch John Stewart on Comedy Central but about a month ago, he played historical clips of Presidents giving speeches about how we must find alternative energy sources and promised that within their administrations time frame in office, what they will do to guide us in that direction. Do you realize how many Presidents have made this pledge? Don't remember exactly but it was like 8 to 10 Presidents............................and NOTHING has yet been done. And what's amazing about this, is what a developing country like Brazil has been able to do with it's alternative energy program. Renewable energy in Brazil accounted for more than 85.4% of the domestically-produced energy used in Brazil, and yet, we haven't even begun to scratch the surface in comparison.

 

[purplechango]

im sorry to bust your bubble, but i have to correct some of this conjecture , so we can be an informed community.

It's not just our problem, but a world problem. Huge percentages of oil that get drilled off our shores go to other countries.

By our own governmental records shows a steady decline of export within the last 30 years to the point of having negative exports....or rather we call it imports.

Last year alone the United States imported just over 8.5 millions of barrels of crude per day from around the world., making us the largest importer of oil.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/country/country_energy_data.cfm?fips=US

no this isnt just our problem , but we sure are doing alot to make it our problem

While voting to find alternative resources, in the long run, makes a lot of sense, in the short run, it's about having the necessary safety procedures in place to either stop something like this from ever happening again, or at least, have the know-how and assets ready at hand to mitigate it.

I totally agree, but this still come back to what we've allowed to happen via our elected officials. had those officials in place thought with the future of the ecology and not of the economy we might hav had stricter regs.

And what's amazing about this, is what a developing country like Brazil has been able to do with it's alternative energy program. Renewable energy in Brazil accounted for more than 85.4% of the domestically-produced energy used in Brazil, and yet, we haven't even begun to scratch the surface in comparison.

Brazils renewable energies only amounts to 3% of their total usage, that 85% u spoke of is total energy produced by Brazil, as you can see in the chart in the link bellow 49% of energy consumption comes from oil.

The source is about 4 years old, but the numbers currently are in the same range.
http://www.eia.doe.gov/cabs/Brazil/Background.html



this link gives you a picture of Brazils oil production, they have been supplying lots of their own for a while
http://www.eia.doe.gov/cabs/Brazil/Oil.html

 

[bluntfaced]

So do something about it dog, you gotta be about it but at this point talking about it is one of the most important things you can do. I don't mean on the internet either. I make an effort to start conversations with different people everywhere I go. Whether it's about racism in the media, corporate corruption of our democracy, or our industrial food system's dependence on oil or the motherfucking Illuminati. The only way we're gonna pull ourselves out of this downward spiral is if yes, we give up our materialistic ways that the media pushes on us. We have to stop being afraid of everything and start loving unconditionally.

There are tons of people out there that are doing things "being about it", everyone is too afraid to talk to each other though, so it's impossible to get a real movement started. Start growing your own food, commuting on a bicycle, riding public transportation instead of driving, stop buying things you don't need (new cell phones, new clothes, 8 different vaporizers, new computers, new cars). Everyone is waiting for other people to start being about it so they can join in when in reality this is a shift in consciousness that needs to happen in the heart of every human being and you are the first step..

And you really don't know me so don't try to tell me I'm all talk.

 

[purplechango]

So do something about it dog, you gotta be about it but at this point talking about it is one of the most important things you can do. I don't mean on the internet either. I make an effort to start conversations with different people everywhere I go. Whether it's about racism in the media, corporate corruption of our democracy, or our industrial food system's dependence on oil or the motherfucking Illuminati. The only way we're gonna pull ourselves out of this downward spiral is if yes, we give up our materialistic ways that the media pushes on us. We have to stop being afraid of everything and start loving unconditionally.

There are tons of people out there that are doing things "being about it", everyone is too afraid to talk to each other though, so it's impossible to get a real movement started. Start growing your own food, commuting on a bicycle, riding public transportation instead of driving, stop buying things you don't need (new cell phones, new clothes, 8 different vaporizers, new computers, new cars). Everyone is waiting for other people to start being about it so they can join in when in reality this is a shift in consciousness that needs to happen in the heart of every human being and you are the first step..

And you really don't know me so don't try to tell me I'm all talk.

yup ur right we need to talk about it, but we need to know some verifiable facts, not just "conjecture", just cause uncle pookey or cousin orville said, or just cause the news says...... ya dig?


and no i dont know you hommie, but i wasnt directing my comments only to you, who ever wants to question my points only has to verify factual information.

my point in this whole thing is to make sure you know what ur talking about before going off half cocked, just to have someone shoot your "conjecture" down with facts

so dont wear your feelings on your shoulder brah, just tryin to impart some valuable information....... as i recall

You know what I mean? With great power comes great responsibility.

And with my great power of knowledge in this arena it is my responsibility to pass it on, so i am being about it......and talking about it.....