Gulf Sadness.
- Thread starter lwien
- Start date
lwien
Well-Known Member
Ok, now it's gettin' bad. Really, really bad. And the really scary part is, is that we have no idea how bad it's really going to get. We don't have a fucking clue, and they're throwing in tons of toxic dispersants with no idea how it's going to fuck with the eco system. This is going to make the Exxon Valdez seem like a fender bender by comparison.
Was just watching Larry King interviewing Philippe Cousteau who had to don a hazmat suit before diving 20 miles off shore. He is now using words like "our worst nightmare being realized" "our worst case scenario" "catastrophic on an epic proportion" and saying that this is unprecedented and we just don't know what the extent of the damage will be and that the Exxon Valdez, as bad as that was, was confined to a two dimensional scale in that the oil stayed on the surface. This, however, is a 3 dimensional tragedy with clouds composed of a toxic mix of oil and chemical dispersants going hundreds and thousands of feet deep and being carried by complex currents in the beginning of the mating and breeding season of the local wildlife and fish populations. Just a small exposure to these dispersant chemicals can cause death thru nerve damage and internal bleeding. It's fucking poison. As if the oil wasn't bad enough.
Fuck...........................
Was just watching Larry King interviewing Philippe Cousteau who had to don a hazmat suit before diving 20 miles off shore. He is now using words like "our worst nightmare being realized" "our worst case scenario" "catastrophic on an epic proportion" and saying that this is unprecedented and we just don't know what the extent of the damage will be and that the Exxon Valdez, as bad as that was, was confined to a two dimensional scale in that the oil stayed on the surface. This, however, is a 3 dimensional tragedy with clouds composed of a toxic mix of oil and chemical dispersants going hundreds and thousands of feet deep and being carried by complex currents in the beginning of the mating and breeding season of the local wildlife and fish populations. Just a small exposure to these dispersant chemicals can cause death thru nerve damage and internal bleeding. It's fucking poison. As if the oil wasn't bad enough.
Fuck...........................
lwien
Well-Known Member
Yeah, but the truth is, is that the scientists and engineers of the oil companies are really, the only ones that are qualified to fix this. All of our engineering and scientific abilities are really not geared towards oil exploration so it's them that has the keys to fix this thing, but even they are totally dumbfounded. Scary shit.jeffp said:
What needs to happen is that ALL of the oil companies a la, Exxon, Shell, BP, Chevron, etc etc etc...........they all have to come together to try and fix this. It doesn't matter anymore who in the hell is responsible. That can come later. Right now, we need everyone to jump in here. We need the smartest scientists and engineers from ALL of the oil companies to start brainstorming, and we need Obama to assign someone the task of heading up this effort. An oil czar if you will. Someone who can gather all these companies together for the common good of us all. Besides plugging up the hole, there should be fucking super tankers out there from every major oil company sucking up the oil that reaches the surface.
Pointing the finger at BP isn't going to accomplish anything right now, for the fact of the matter is, that the problem is no longer BP's problem. It's everyone's problem. We have 4 fucking thousand underwater wells currently operating in the gulf, and the fucking words, "Drill baby, drill" keeps ringing in my ears..........
Howie Feltersnatch
Scalawag
You really want to know who to blame? Ultimately?
Well, if you aren't using solar, wind and geothermal energy and growing your own food in order to be 100% off the grid - look in the mirror. The world's insatiable demand for petro products at a perceived "reasonable" cost is what drives this shit. Our reckless pursuit of more, bigger, faster everything is what we need to get a handle on.
Remember Rome?
(Disclaimer: I am as bad as most with a convertible, SUV (non-hybrid), a tractor and a Class A RV. I also have the audacity to turn on lights when I need them and A/C when I am hot. And you should have heard me bitching when gas was nearing $5/gallon!)
Well, if you aren't using solar, wind and geothermal energy and growing your own food in order to be 100% off the grid - look in the mirror. The world's insatiable demand for petro products at a perceived "reasonable" cost is what drives this shit. Our reckless pursuit of more, bigger, faster everything is what we need to get a handle on.
Remember Rome?
(Disclaimer: I am as bad as most with a convertible, SUV (non-hybrid), a tractor and a Class A RV. I also have the audacity to turn on lights when I need them and A/C when I am hot. And you should have heard me bitching when gas was nearing $5/gallon!)
Lil Dragonfly
vapor fetishist
I don't blame myself totally.
Ever seen "who killed the electric car"?
Ever seen "who killed the electric car"?
momofthegoons
vapor accessory addict
The worst part of this is that we don't even know the scope of the disaster yet. So many untruths being spread around out there.
They've been talking about drilling in the Great Lakes for years. I only wish that this event would show that to be a terrible idea. Unfortunately, "we" have selective memories. When this issue fades away, they will bring up drilling there again. Granted, with the magnitude of this spill, it will take years before the memory fades, but it will. We live in a world of people who like to stick their heads in the sand like ostriches and avoid truth.
They've been talking about drilling in the Great Lakes for years. I only wish that this event would show that to be a terrible idea. Unfortunately, "we" have selective memories. When this issue fades away, they will bring up drilling there again. Granted, with the magnitude of this spill, it will take years before the memory fades, but it will. We live in a world of people who like to stick their heads in the sand like ostriches and avoid truth.
StickyShisha2
Well-Known Member
http://www.bp.com/liveassets/bp_int...local_assets/bp_homepage/html/rov_stream.html live feed from the well head
Qbit
cannabanana
I don't think I'm alone in thinking that, sadly, maybe something like this happening is necessary to shift the American general public's view on the subject of oil.
Mind you, I've actually been hoping for something for the US resulting from the effects of climate change, rather than an industrial accident, because spin doctors will try to convince everyone that this is an isolated incident which will never be repeated. Of course it's not that I'm wishing for such disasters in themselves - I just believe the US needs to feel its fair share of the Earth's environmental pressures if it is to really change its ways, because what happens halfway around the world may as well not exist.
Here in Australia we can pretty much match you, at least on a per capita basis, on carbon emissions and environmental destruction, so it's not some holier-than-thou position I'm taking. But at least we've been feeling some of the side-effects of the current behaviour of humanity, with our agriculture suffering from years of the worst drought on record. And the bushfires of last year were a highly lethal result of such extreme and prolonged weather patterns.
So even in the regional and rural conservative heartlands the merits of environmentalism are becoming widely appreciated. We're still not doing much to actually go green, but at least there isn't quite such entrenched ideological opposition to it.
Anyway, even though this Gulf catastrophe is a massive accident of corporatized industrialism rather than a predictable ongoing by-product of it, at least it's something that could really help make oil less fashionable.
Mind you, I've actually been hoping for something for the US resulting from the effects of climate change, rather than an industrial accident, because spin doctors will try to convince everyone that this is an isolated incident which will never be repeated. Of course it's not that I'm wishing for such disasters in themselves - I just believe the US needs to feel its fair share of the Earth's environmental pressures if it is to really change its ways, because what happens halfway around the world may as well not exist.
Here in Australia we can pretty much match you, at least on a per capita basis, on carbon emissions and environmental destruction, so it's not some holier-than-thou position I'm taking. But at least we've been feeling some of the side-effects of the current behaviour of humanity, with our agriculture suffering from years of the worst drought on record. And the bushfires of last year were a highly lethal result of such extreme and prolonged weather patterns.
So even in the regional and rural conservative heartlands the merits of environmentalism are becoming widely appreciated. We're still not doing much to actually go green, but at least there isn't quite such entrenched ideological opposition to it.
Anyway, even though this Gulf catastrophe is a massive accident of corporatized industrialism rather than a predictable ongoing by-product of it, at least it's something that could really help make oil less fashionable.
lwien
Well-Known Member
And to top it all off, it's fucking hurricane season. What happens when the associated tidal surges hit? Getting inundated with water is bad enough but getting inundated with a toxic soup that will stay there for decades is a whole other story. The gulf coast could be forever changed by this. I saw a family being interviewed. Father, mother, son and two daughters. The father is a fisherman and fishing has been the families sole source of income for generations. The father looked straight into the camera and with tears welling up in eyes said, "I don't know what else to do."
momofthegoons
vapor accessory addict
I feel for you Lo, and everyone else on the coast. Actually, I feel bad for everyone, because we will all feel the effects of this. And I don't think that anyone has any idea of how bad this really is because we aren't getting all the facts. They keep comparing it to the Exxon spill but I've got to believe that this will make that pale in comparison.
Howie Feltersnatch
Scalawag
Mom, I am sorry to disagree but I am horribly, sickeningly afraid that this disaster and its effects may live on past our grandchildren's grandchildren. I just hope it serves to wake enough people the fuck up that we DON'T destroy the whole goddamn planet. Have you seen that live feed? OMFG it chills me to watch it. This could be bad, as in biblical.momofthegoons said:
And lwien is right no one has a clue how this will affect hurricane formation or development because nothing like this has ever happened.
Here's another one to think about:
You have a surface slick covering hundreds of square miles. Some of it pools near shore or collects in some little bay.
What happens when lightning strikes it?
lwien
Well-Known Member
I know Howie. I'm typically not the type of guy who goes running around like Chicken Little screaming, "The sky is falling. The sky is falling."
But this............
You're absolutely right. This could be catastrophic on a biblical scale, and something that future generations may look back on and view us with total disdain. I hope to God I'm wrong but I believe that this catastrophe is going to unfold in slow motion over decades even if they stop the leak tomorrow, and consider this. If the next two or three efforts fail to cap it, it's going to be until August before they will have drilled another well to relieve the pressure and stop it. Fucking August.
I saw an interview with the CEO of BP about two hours ago just after leaving the control room working on this latest fix. He was talking to the press telling them that we won't know if this latest fix will work or not until tomorrow. I know the guy has been under a LOT of stress lately, but the look I saw on his face was not one of stress or lack of sleep. It was a look of fear.
Kind of sent a chill up my spine.
But this............
You're absolutely right. This could be catastrophic on a biblical scale, and something that future generations may look back on and view us with total disdain. I hope to God I'm wrong but I believe that this catastrophe is going to unfold in slow motion over decades even if they stop the leak tomorrow, and consider this. If the next two or three efforts fail to cap it, it's going to be until August before they will have drilled another well to relieve the pressure and stop it. Fucking August.
I saw an interview with the CEO of BP about two hours ago just after leaving the control room working on this latest fix. He was talking to the press telling them that we won't know if this latest fix will work or not until tomorrow. I know the guy has been under a LOT of stress lately, but the look I saw on his face was not one of stress or lack of sleep. It was a look of fear.
Kind of sent a chill up my spine.
momofthegoons
vapor accessory addict
Howie and lwien, I don't mean to diminish the magnitude of this with my the memory will fade line at all. I don't mean that the general populace who care and follow these things will forget. I agree that this is of almost biblical proportions. They won't be able to forget. That is what I was trying to say. However, it is obvious, to me at least, that the oil companies didn't learn a thing from the Exxon spill (environmental impact wise). And there certainly was no "what if" going on when they drilled in regards to the future. It's that head in the sand thing. And the unfortunate truth is that a lot of people don't understand (or care to understand) the magnitude of this or how it will change their lives. Fact is, they just don't care. If enough people cared in the first place, this never would have happened.
Edit: IMO part of the problem is that the media isn't covering this as they should. If they were, the general populace would be calling for political and corporate heads to roll.
Edit: IMO part of the problem is that the media isn't covering this as they should. If they were, the general populace would be calling for political and corporate heads to roll.
lwien
Well-Known Member
Guess it depends on which media. CNN has been all over this one. Typically, CNN leans to the liberal left, but the commentators and contributors have been angrily outspoken, not only against BP, but against the Obama administration, and that is totally out of character for this news organization.momofthegoons said:
But I do have to agree that I think for the most part, those that don't live along the Gulf don't think that this is really going to affect them. The fact is, in the whole scheme of things, this could very well affect everyone. Is it a large enough catastrophe to force us to make drastic changes in our dependence on oil? I don't think so, not because it's not large enough, but because the extent of the damage will unfold over too long of a period of time. If we could squish those decades into a few days, than yeah, that may force us into action.
Will political heads roll? Yeah, I think the political process will mandate that but I don't think it will go very high up the food chain. And as far as corporate heads rolling, when one considers the pending law suites against BP, the company's survival may be at stake.
momofthegoons
vapor accessory addict
Just saw this when I logged on:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_oil_spill_new_plume
Didn't have any mention of it on the news here today. This is sort of what I'm talking about. Since CNN does lean a bit farther to the left than I like, I don't watch it. I know they have been showing constant coverage, but a lot of people, like me, don't watch it. They rely on their local news. If they aren't computer savvy or don't have something like MSN or Yahoo as their default page, they aren't getting the news either. And frankly, the footage they keep showing of the well might be construed as the same footage being shown over and over again. (I know it isn't and that it's just a continuation of the oil spewing, but..) Makes me ill.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_oil_spill_new_plume
Didn't have any mention of it on the news here today. This is sort of what I'm talking about. Since CNN does lean a bit farther to the left than I like, I don't watch it. I know they have been showing constant coverage, but a lot of people, like me, don't watch it. They rely on their local news. If they aren't computer savvy or don't have something like MSN or Yahoo as their default page, they aren't getting the news either. And frankly, the footage they keep showing of the well might be construed as the same footage being shown over and over again. (I know it isn't and that it's just a continuation of the oil spewing, but..) Makes me ill.
Howie Feltersnatch
Scalawag
Elizabeth Birnbaum resigned several days ago. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/28/us/28drill.html but hopefully that is not the end of it.lwien said:
Around here, people think BP deserves to go bankrupt after they liquidate and put it all in a big fund we can draw off of as needed. Now, I am not quite that rabid. However, I think a couple of levels of execs need to go bye-bye with no golden parachute. And the fund of course.
Beezleb
Well-Known Member
As much as I hate to say it, at least this time the effects hit America where the environmental damage when done elsewhere is often not wholly understood/appreciated by the American public. I think because of that, in part these issues were taken less seriously.
At the very least, I am sure you cant find a loose bolt, so to speak, on any other oil rig. Safety is number one now, I hope.
At the very least, I am sure you cant find a loose bolt, so to speak, on any other oil rig. Safety is number one now, I hope.
Howie Feltersnatch
Scalawag
Times like this really prove to me that there is no god. If there were really a kind and loving, all-powerful supreme being, surely he/she/it would step up and help out.
Beez, oh you mean like until 9/11 people didn't really think terrorism could directly affect them at home? You may be right. Unfortunately - too late to help much. And the measures that will need to be put into place in the future are going to be expensive and will certainly drive up oil prices again. $5 a gallon anyone?
Beez, oh you mean like until 9/11 people didn't really think terrorism could directly affect them at home? You may be right. Unfortunately - too late to help much. And the measures that will need to be put into place in the future are going to be expensive and will certainly drive up oil prices again. $5 a gallon anyone?
Purple-Days
Well-Known Member
"Someone who can gather all these companies together for the common good of us all." Sorry, but... 
And who to blame? I say Jimmy Fucking Carter. His big mouth spouts off on everything else. You won't here him on this one, I bet. And you can blame every President and Congressman and Senator since. Fucking puppets.
$5 a gallon gas, sure it's expensive, but as long as you can pull up to the pump and get gas nobody seems to care. You may not remember standing in line for gas, pushing your car forward as the line moved, or odd and even days for gasoline.
We had a wake up call in the early '70s and ignored it. Our fucking government ignored it, we ignored it, we will continue to ignore it. Hummers and Escalades... Till a few days ago our answer was Drill, Baby Drill. And it wasn't too many days ago that Obama was telling folks about the safety of drilling (go look) and about the validity of our energy strategy.
Look, we have turned our food resources into fuel and bread prices have doubled. We have turned our waters into a sewer and continue to issue driling permits (go look). And what is the plan? We have no plan, that's the fucking plan.
And who to blame? I say Jimmy Fucking Carter. His big mouth spouts off on everything else. You won't here him on this one, I bet. And you can blame every President and Congressman and Senator since. Fucking puppets.
$5 a gallon gas, sure it's expensive, but as long as you can pull up to the pump and get gas nobody seems to care. You may not remember standing in line for gas, pushing your car forward as the line moved, or odd and even days for gasoline.
We had a wake up call in the early '70s and ignored it. Our fucking government ignored it, we ignored it, we will continue to ignore it. Hummers and Escalades... Till a few days ago our answer was Drill, Baby Drill. And it wasn't too many days ago that Obama was telling folks about the safety of drilling (go look) and about the validity of our energy strategy.
Look, we have turned our food resources into fuel and bread prices have doubled. We have turned our waters into a sewer and continue to issue driling permits (go look). And what is the plan? We have no plan, that's the fucking plan.
mlid
Well-Known Member
here are some amazing pics :
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010/05/27/us/201005_oil-spill-photo-gallery.html
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010/05/27/us/201005_oil-spill-photo-gallery.html