Fluxer Heaters, induction heaters for Dynavap

[mr_cfromcali]

Hi everyone,

Full week, huh? Here’s some news that should be well received.

The response to heaters from the first batch of Flite has been very positive overall, but one common request emerged: can you guys tone this thing down a bit and make it heat less aggressively?

We hear you! In response to your requests, I’m adding a milder 16mm coil option for Flite. The new 16mm coil will use a 15.8mm x 1.8mm borosilicate glass insert. A 16mm carbon fiber insert is also available for an additional $10, as with the 15mm coil. A 16mm coil may not solve all of our problems, but it does heat less aggressively than a 15mm coil.

Happening now: The new 16mm size will be here next week! I ordered these 16mm inserts in December. I had intended to to use them with the Flix, but they are the same height and will work well in either heater. It's a win-win for all of us.

@TommyDee and I have each tested this configuration in Flite and give it our hearty approval! We had reasons for choosing the 15mm vs the 16mm, reasons like "greater efficiency" and "standardized size" for the curious, but we now see more wisdom in offering a choice of hot and mild sizes. Thanks for telling us.

16mm Coil Size pros vs. cons, in brief:

Pro: Milder heating profile vs. hotter 15mm size; initial 'fresh battery' hits won't be quite as strong as they are w/the 15mm coil

Con: 16mm is less efficient than 15mm, so there's a potential for fewer overall clicks per charge, depending on use. We'll quantify this when we are able to do so, but I think you can assume ~5+ fewer clicks per full charge on average. The 15mm coil is great for wringing every last erg out of the cells as they deplete, while the 16mm is likely to lose the ability to heat sooner.

I’ll record a 15mm vs 16mm video comparison after the new inserts arrive.

The new coil will also be available for Flite owners from either batch 1 or batch 2:

Flite Batch #2: Easy-peasy. I haven’t built these yet, so if you want me to change your batch #2 Flite to use a 16mm coil, send me an email at fluxerheaters@gmail.com. Please include your order number if possible to avoid any confusion

Flite Batch #1: Still easy, but maybe not 'easy-peasy'. If you own a Flite from the first batch and would like to switch to the new coil size, please send me an email (fluxerheaters@gmail.com preferred). If you are in the US, I will send a return shipping label; I'll swap your coil once the new inserts arrive and send your heater back to you. If you are a Batch #1 Flite owner located outside the US and want to switch to the 16mm coil size, please send me an email and we’ll discuss the details. I have a plan for this situation, too.

Thanks all for your support and patience while we get this worked out, and thank you for your initial feedback! Our goals with this little heater are your happiness and satisfaction. We think the new setup will deliver more of the experience you want, and less of the experience you don't.

Cheers,

 

[TommyDee]

Sorry I've missed a few inquiries -

@Zoltani - On full charge PWM disabled, any cap should click in about 6-8 seconds. That is the normal tune. There are caveats of course.
Knowing exactly what cap you have is difficult. If your heater is set to hot, it will take longer to add the additional heat.
The rate heat is applied is cap-dependent. However, each cap in the same heater takes on the same amount of energy to the click, give or take very little. Is there a serial number on your cap?

@n0tu2 Look up something called 'electrical reference depth' in relation to induction heater technology. I believe you will find that the cap itself is 90% of the energy consumption. That means only 10% is left for all the rest of the metal. That tells me there is a huge amount of conductive heat imparted on the tip.
The real difference between the torch and the IH is that the cap is heating all-around and therefore adding heat to the tip quicker. The CCD is immune from the IH. Far to shielded by other metals.
Don't confuse this with the current reading of the tip only in the IH. The cap acts as a magnetic shield for the tip.

@Texus [love the spelling - good to be from Texas!] You might consider having Mr C tune that a little for you. You shouldn't have to invest in low temp caps.

16mm coils! Yes, I' ve taken data on these and I' ve been testing them. These will heat slower for those who really want to stretch out the bake. Remember that the heat at the click is coil tuning - a larger coil is slower heating. These are the two different aspects that can be adjusted in the induction heater.
Efficiency numbers are not too far off. We should have that in the margin already of 10 sessions.
The 16mm coils are also a little less sensitive to intrusion depth making tuning a little easier.

 

[Momor]

@mr_cfromcali I'm sorry but i'm a bit confused by the coil setup choices.
There is the "cooler coil" setup and "hotter coil" setup both with 15mm coils and a new "milder coil" stup with 16mm coil ?
In this case, is the 15mm "cooler coil" cooler than the 16mm "milder coil" ?
How hot is the "hotter coil" setup from batch #2 compared to the coil setup of batch #1 ?
TIA

 

[mr_cfromcali]

@mr_cfromcali I'm sorry but i'm a bit confused by the coil setup choices.
There is the "cooler coil" setup and "hotter coil" setup both with 15mm coils and a new "milder coil" stup with 16mm coil ?
In this case, is the 15mm "cooler coil" cooler than the 16mm "milder coil" ?
How hot is the "hotter coil" setup from batch #2 compared to the coil setup of batch #1 ?
TIA

Yes, you are correct in your statements.

There are now two sizes of coils from which to choose for the Flite: 15mm (hotter) and 16mm (cooler). Based on the initial responses to the Flite, I now believe most people will prefer the cooler 16mm coil.

Additionally, each coil can be mounted low (cool) or high (hotter). The default position for all coils is low and cool, unless I am specifically told otherwise.

If you aren't sure what you want, choose the 16mm . It is easier to make the 16 coil more aggressive than it is to make the 15mm cooler.

If you know you always prefer a hotter draw, choose the 15mm. The 15mm is very manageable and will give you a few more clicks per charge. That said, if you are someone who absolutely abhors combustion, I think the 16mm is going to make you happier day-to-day.

I am trying to make this easier, not harder.

 

[Vaporware]

Just a quick follow-up:

As someone who finds the 16mm FD a little aggressive (especially with fresh batteries), would I be able to tune the 15mm via PWM to stretch the session a bit and retain flavor longer, or am I better off with the 16mm coil in the cooler position?

 

[TommyDee]

@VaporWarehouse - The difference is between the two offers is reducing the full power of the Flite by about 10-15 watts. If you want this in your range, use PWM. If you like a nice quite bake and 20 seconds on a low battery is okay, 16mm might be for you. Larger coils really is like stopping the stove at, say "8". If you like the rate of heating but the click is too delayed, then tuning the coil will solve that. Larger coils heat slower.

 

[Momor]

Yes, you are correct in your statements.

There are now two sizes of coils from which to choose for the Flite: 15mm (hotter) and 16mm (cooler). Based on the initial responses to the Flite, I now believe most people will prefer the cooler 16mm coil.

Additionally, each coil can be mounted low (cool) or high (hotter). The default position for all coils is low and cool, unless I am specifically told otherwise.

If you aren't sure what you want, choose the 16mm . It is easier to make the 16 coil more aggressive than it is to make the 15mm cooler.

If you know you always prefer a hotter draw, choose the 15mm. The 15mm is very manageable and will give you a few more clicks per charge. That said, if you are someone who absolutely abhors combustion, I think the 16mm is going to make you happier day-to-day.

I am trying to make this easier, not harder.

Thanks for that answer.
My first choice was 15mm hotter coil but it seems too hot/aggressive and i sure don't want the 16mm cooler coil but now i have a hard time deciding between 16mm hotter coil or 15mm cooler coil.
Would the 15mm Flite ship sooner than the 16mm ones as you probably have all the parts already ?
I hope a good sleep wil help me deciding.

 

[TommyDee]

@Momor - what's your session like and how is your DV collection. Not prying or anything, just getting an idea of what kind of heater would suit you. I can use any heater. The more patience I have, the more refined the bake. I tune so I have room to add a few moments or draw as-is without worry. I will use a hot IH differently than a cool one.

If you cannot decide and you can manage heavy sessions but not necessarily every bowl, tell Jeff you want the TommyDee standard. That is the baseline we targeted.

If you do small loads or you want finer control of the heater, the 16mm coil set 'neutral' should be pretty close to what you will be searching for. Time is not an element for you. Not crazy times but as batteries sag, some tips will take a while at 9 volts. Just a little more control.

PWM does what the cooler 16mm coil does like a variable coil. Cooler is only what the peek power can achieve. Not the tuning of the ingress. PWM allows you to mimic the smaller coils but the power transfer is not as smooth. It does average out of course but connoisseurs, of which there are many of you, will detect a difference.

Jeff will get you tuned. I think we are looking for a solid guide. I think that comes from user feedback. Kudos on Jeff for being there to get you the right heater. Let him know what you would like the heater to do and I know he can interpret your vision. That is more than the order site can offer. Simple hot and cold is a bit ambiguous. Rate of heating is the missing talking point. Slow cooked beans are great, right?

 

[rvarick]

For science, and if helpful; I decided to a test the heat up time for a bunch of caps, all with the same Ti tip (and all from cool). I started from full charge on the Flite as well. The results were interesting, and were as follows:

Cap Year	Type	#	Heatup time (secs)
2019	PhantoM	2800065	11.78
2019	C-Vap	N/A	10.82
2020	Captive	0800463	10.42
2019	Standard	2550300	10.1
2019	Standard	0830502	9.27
2019	Standard	2520107	9.22
2019	Standard	DY6-9350	8.8
2019	Low Temp	2890171	7.74

It's crazy the differences between caps, right?! The captive in particular surprised me, but it was the last to be run through, so perhaps the battery was draining by that point (?). Also, a question: I'm guessing the ones faster to the click will be less aggressive - can anyone verify if this is correct?

Lastly, seeing most were 8 secs+ (vs. the 6-8 TommyDee mentions) I'm thinking my Flite may still be on the hotter side. I may decide to explore the 16mm coil option, but am going to give it a weekend of use before deciding.

 

[TommyDee]

THANK YOU! DY6-nnnn is a very old cap. Should have a nice hot report. Nice collection @rvarick .

3 seconds apart across the selection Right on! 6-8 neutral 9-12 hot. Seems about right.

@rvarick - take the lightest cap, 2800065, and see how long it takes before the cells need charging. That is one metric you might want to add to your decision. 16mm ID coils will be slower than that by maybe 25%.

 

[rvarick]

THANK YOU! DY6-nnnn is a very old cap. Should have a nice hot report. Nice collection @rvarick .

3 seconds apart across the selection Right on! 6-8 neutral 9-12 hot. Seems about right.

Yep, I knew there was a reason I'd moved that DY6 one to my inception stem, which helps to cool those power hits! I'd done it purely on observation but it sounds like it was indeed a hot high iron one!

So in the Flite, when using full power mode - will the DY6 which takes 8.8 secs to heat have a hotter load than say the PhantoM cap taking 11.78 secs for instance? Or is it the reverse? Or do other factors come into play?

 

[marduk]

For science, and if helpful; I decided to a test the heat up time for a bunch of caps, all with the same Ti tip (and all from cool). I started from full charge on the Flite as well. The results were interesting, and were as follows:
...

Would you happen to have a milligram scale on hand for science and one more data point?

 

[mr_cfromcali]

and i sure don't want the 16mm cooler coil

The 16mm is comparatively cooler than the 15mm. It is a fine performer in its own right.

Would the 15mm Flite ship sooner than the 16mm ones as you probably have all the parts already ?

It's possible. We'll see how the preliminary build tasks go.

 

[TommyDee]

@rvarick - High iron caps make for more heat transfer to the tip. Each take the same amount of energy in different periods. The longer period of the low iron cap imparts lower temperature longer. This does leave a lighter ABV in general. Faster heating often yields darker ABV as well.

The ABV condition might help too but please take my descriptions to heart and watch for them. A hot heater, a heater set hot, either coil, will generate dark ABV. We tend to "shy on the button". If the heater forces you to trust the edge [with much respect] you will get more from your flower only because you didn't chicken out. You didn't have a choice. We won't go that far modulating the switch. Every test draw during heating is 2 PWM heartbeats removed. When we try this is a wimpy cap, we start "drawing on straw" which is light ABV but dry as a bone. With Flite, you will get to know your caps better than you ever thought was useful. I cycle 4 and they each have an edge.

 

[n0tu2]

@n0tu2 Look up something called 'electrical reference depth' in relation to induction heater technology. I believe you will find that the cap itself is 90% of the energy consumption. That means only 10% is left for all the rest of the metal. That tells me there is a huge amount of conductive heat imparted on the tip.
The real difference between the torch and the IH is that the cap is heating all-around and therefore adding heat to the tip quicker. The CCD is immune from the IH. Far to shielded by other metals.
Don't confuse this with the current reading of the tip only in the IH. The cap acts as a magnetic shield for the

interesting.. so if its shielded inside from field penetration then this one cap must be super hot. i will try to find the serial# later.

I too don't know if I want to change out coils. The 15mm is growing on me. I fear if I do that then I will face the reverse situation with how many seconds over the click do I need to go. lol. Especially since this is my only IH I'm having fun with it and don't want to be without while exchanging. I do understand so many variances in caps and I have a few newer ones on the way to compare. It could be I abused it too much, variances in the bimetal clicker, material content, battery charge...

My guess is the lower 8.8s standard clicking cap won't combust and be cooler, right? the longer its exposed to the field the hotter it will get (assuming each cap was tested with full batteries so you would need 8 recharges, every MaH counts for science!)

 

[n0tu2]

also @rvarick are you sure your exchanged heater is tuned down? if the coils can be lowered all the way to the pads still all of your TTC (time to click) numbers will go down proportionally

 

[TommyDee]

@n0tu2 - the newer caps work better with the 15mm coil. It is a good idea to get use to it and it will tell you if you need a change.

Did you get the coil position tweaked to your liking?

And yes, you got the TTC vision down now ;]

 

[Copterstyle]

Well after a couple days of "intense testing" my flite has treated me well. I believe I am using an 18 cap. With stock 15mm coil (hot set up) the first click was too hot for me. I tried the PWM after that at 50/50. Money. I find that for me PWM 50/50 its almost impossible to combust.

My cap has 2 clicks. The number of pulses between clicks is about 4-5 or guestemating 2 sec.. When using the FD or Flix time between clicks is almost instant. This shows how much tamer the slow heating of the PWM is.

I had a little trouble at first with the CAS and PWM "gliching" or "rapidly clicking". This was remedied by giving the top of the cap a polish with a 3m polishing/sanding pad. No issues since.

My take on the CAS only.....This case is so sleek. Only 1 hole for the tip and thats it. Big selling factor for me. I prefer the CAS to the push down switches in the FD and Flix. I have used the CAS upside down in a water piece and used it while taking a draw (like lighting a cig) with no issues.

I did not get a charger though and I think that may have been a mistake. I have a charger for the 18350 batteries and they charge relativly quick, though changing batteries is a little tougher than in the FD. I assume this is due to tight tolerences. I am using the purple efest 18350 that were recommended a while ago. It is just a tight fit getting them in and out. I will have to snag a Flite charger in the future as this would be easier to travel with instead of the other charger and batteries.

As far as battery life i have been getting an average of 9 caps per charge. I use titanium tip with the load screen in the middle. 3 clicks per bowl. 27 clicks per charge. This dosen't seem like a lot? I have noticed I get about 1 cap once i notice the lights dim. Batteries sometimes read different when I go to charge them (3.12, 3.25, 3.3v for example).

This is a very well thought out and executed piece of machinery that I am proud to use and it brings a smile to my face every time i use it!

 

[mr_cfromcali]

also @rvarick are you sure your exchanged heater is tuned down?

It is.

 

[n0tu2]

yes, it was 10-10.5s before .. got it to 9-9.5s TTC after taking out the board and lowering.. so shaved a second off. i think i can get it lower if i give the bottom wire a little needle nose bend or try a little more agressive push down of the coil on the right side of the tube, the right side is a little higher then the left.. 3 sides of the tube are all the way down. I have the soldering iron ready, but I'm not there yet lol (fear of breaking it)

 

[n0tu2]

took a look at the cap.. its a DY4-90xx

 

[TommyDee]

Well after a couple days of "intense testing" my flite has treated me well. I believe I am using an 18 cap. With stock 15mm coil (hot set up) the first click was too hot for me. I tried the PWM after that at 50/50. Money. I find that for me PWM 50/50 its almost impossible to combust.

My cap has 2 clicks. The number of pulses between clicks is about 4-5 or guestemating 2 sec.. When using the FD or Flix time between clicks is almost instant. This shows how much tamer the slow heating of the PWM is.

I had a little trouble at first with the CAS and PWM "gliching" or "rapidly clicking". This was remedied by giving the top of the cap a polish with a 3m polishing/sanding pad. No issues since.

My take on the CAS only.....This case is so sleek. Only 1 hole for the tip and thats it. Big selling factor for me. I prefer the CAS to the push down switches in the FD and Flix. I have used the CAS upside down in a water piece and used it while taking a draw (like lighting a cig) with no issues.

I did not get a charger though and I think that may have been a mistake. I have a charger for the 18350 batteries and they charge relativly quick, though changing batteries is a little tougher than in the FD. I assume this is due to tight tolerences. I am using the purple efest 18350 that were recommended a while ago. It is just a tight fit getting them in and out. I will have to snag a Flite charger in the future as this would be easier to travel with instead of the other charger and batteries.

As far as battery life i have been getting an average of 9 caps per charge. I use titanium tip with the load screen in the middle. 3 clicks per bowl. 27 clicks per charge. This dosen't seem like a lot? I have noticed I get about 1 cap once i notice the lights dim. Batteries sometimes read different when I go to charge them (3.12, 3.25, 3.3v for example).

This is a very well thought out and executed piece of machinery that I am proud to use and it brings a smile to my face every time i use it!

Thank you for the excellent review! Are you using the cell strap to pull the cells?
I too love the sleek look of the Shaved Flite.

The PWM will add a bit to the power usage. Looks like about 10% by the numbers.

Are you using a quality charger? Mine are staying much closer with the BMS and on-board charging. I also make sure the cells are fully charged to 4.2V resting [4.18-4.19v].

The little chargers are not all that accurate. They will get you by safely though. For full capacity, you can't beat a decent XTAR charger. I'm lazy and don't pull cells but I do use a digital charger set to 12.6 on the dot.

took a look at the cap.. its a DY4-90xx

WoW! Didn't know that existed. No idea what to expect from that one. That should be one of the originals from 2014.

 

[Copterstyle]

Using a Nitecore D4 i have used for years. They have read the same when I pulled the cells once or twice. Seems when the cells get drained they are more likely to read different? I shall pull them a little earlier to see.

 

[TommyDee]

I've tested 6 of the eFests and they are more matched than that. Typically within 0.05v of each other. I wasn't watching the KeepPowers as closely but I can certainly make it a point to check the matching data. Mine are well used so I can see where they are now. I'll cycle them overnight in the Opus BC3100 and get a capacity. Thanks for reminding me. I do let the cells rest a bit from the last firing. When you put them in the charger though, they should start at about the same voltage. I'll get more data to make sure I capture the 'norm'.

I did get mine from M&A BD Electronics and they did test out on the Opus, all 6 from 2 orders. I do trust this supplier. And as far as eFest goes, these are spectacular, meaning they are up to parr [read: identical] with VapCell and KeepPower.

3.81v, 3.83v, 3.81v fresh onto the charger - I'll cycle these.
119, 120, 106 internal resistance (crude)
1amp discharge/refresh in progress.

 

[Texus]

@Texus [love the spelling - good to be from Texas!] You might consider having Mr C tune that a little for you. You shouldn't have to invest in low temp caps

A little secret between us: I'm not from Texas.

Thanks for the confirmation. I'm even hitting combustion with the low temp cap, so it'll be going back for retuning and prob a 16mm coil. But will prob wait until the 16mm are in stock. It'll still be a good getting to know you time between now and then.

And I need to look back in earlier pages to see what's up with the CaS glitching...