Fiberglass found in Angus Enhanced

[Mischa]

Can't and won't believe that Mike would start a company that uses fake or purchased security symbols. I don't know how to fix the disappointment.

And for all those laughing: So you can imagine someone who starts a company and releases a product, thinking, "It doesn't matter, no one will notice?" Do you really think they wouldn't think about it? A quick glance into the future is enough.
If they've forgotten at least that, they're obviously stupid. Intentional? To save pennies? *lol*

 

[General Disaster]

Not trying to make excuses, because I am upset as well. However, fiberglass is not the same as asbestos. Multiple studies on fiberglass have concluded that it is not a significant cancer risk, and that irritation ends after exposure ends. It doesn’t stick in your lungs forever. Inhaling fiberglass would instantly produce acute symptoms

I would take that with a pinch of salt personally. As best I know, relatively minor short term exposure rarely leads to more than temporary irritation of eye's, skin and upper respiratory tract, and it does tend to leave the body, but it also depends on the size of the particles as to how and where it has an impact and how well it can be removed, the finest particles can end up down in the lung and are pretty much cumulative as glass can only be physically removed (e.g. coughing in the upper respiratory area can remove the larger particles that haven't reached further down).
Longer term exposure can and does lead to more serious illness including symptoms similar to bronchitis and asthma. And with a vape any release of particulates are going straight into the windpipe and lungs.
That doesn't mean it shouldn't be used, but there are issues to be aware of for the manufacturer and imho if someone is making money selling vapes it's incumbent on them to be honest and upfront with potential health issues if they want to be trusted (e.g. immediately 'fessing up a mistake and fixing it asap).

 

[TerpChasersClub]

I would take that with a pinch of salt personally. As best I know, relatively minor short term exposure rarely leads to more than temporary irritation of eye's, skin and upper respiratory tract, and it does tend to leave the body, but it also depends on the size of the particles as to how and where it has an impact and how well it can be removed, the finest particles can end up down in the lung and are pretty much cumulative as glass can only be physically removed (e.g. coughing in the upper respiratory area can remove the larger particles that haven't reached further down).
Longer term exposure can and does lead to more serious illness including symptoms similar to bronchitis and asthma. And with a vape any release of particulates are going straight into the windpipe and lungs.
That doesn't mean it shouldn't be used, but there are issues to be aware of for the manufacturer and imho if someone is making money selling vapes it's incumbent on them to be honest and upfront with potential health issues if they want to be trusted (e.g. immediately 'fessing up a mistake and fixing it asap).

Please refer to my other response in this thread:

I only shared that because many were sharing that it was the same as asbestos, this material choice is insane. YLL should have known better, reacted faster, and stronger.

Absolutely zero part of me condones this, and I've been a part of the investigating. I'm completely pissed and immediately removed the item from my store, as well as contacted all of my angus enhanced customers.

One of the pictures in the beginning of the thread is from my Tear down and investigation as well.

 

[Señor Negro]

This will be my last post about this subject as I finally had an answer from the retailer I bought my Angus from (La Centrale Vapeur) so my case is successfully closed and I don't have any intention of continuing to discuss anything about this anymore.

As I was expecting from what I have seen with other retailers, they have sent me a return label for my unit and apparently for any other user that has purchased it.
I can't be more happy with the response they gave us because they have been not only on par with other sites but also (as far as I know and previously said here before) they have been the only retailer I've seen addressing the issue publicly on their site instead of only sending mails to their customers or taking out the stock of their units.
If you are reading this: My most sincere thanks for how you have dealt with this situation.

I'm completely pissed and immediately removed the item from my store, as well as contacted all of my angus enhanced customers.

Not like I want to tell you what to do, it's up to you, but I would suggest that you also edit or remove the blog entry about the device you have on your site.

 

[TerpChasersClub]

This will be my last post about this subject as I finally had an answer from the retailer I bought my Angus from (La Centrale Vapeur) so my case is successfully closed and I don't have any intention of continuing to discuss anything about this anymore.

As I was expecting from what I have seen with other retailers, they have sent me a return label for my unit and apparently for any other user that has purchased it.
I can't be more happy with the response they gave us because they have been not only on par with other sites but also (as far as I know and previously said here before) they have been the only retailer I've seen addressing the issue publicly on their site instead of only sending mails to their customers or taking out the stock of their units.
If you are reading this: My most sincere thanks for how you have dealt with this situation.


Not like I want to tell you what to do, it's up to you, but I would suggest that you also edit or remove the blog entry about the device you have on your site.

I completely forgot about the blog entry, I’ll go ahead and edit it. I didn’t email my whole list because it doesn’t apply to them. I emailed anyone who purchased from me. Generally, most customers don’t want to be contacted if it doesn’t apply to them.

The YLL section on my store also has a disclaimer regarding this. I’ll add the same to the blog post.

 

[im not a robot]

they have been the only retailer I've seen addressing the issue publicly on their site instead of only sending mails to their customers or taking out the stock of their units.

Does the Angus Enhanced have fiberglass in the vapor path?

We look into the question of whether the Angus Enhanced is currently harmful to health (fiberglass in the vapor path?), and what you might need to consider.

verdampftnochmal.de

 

[2tiki]

Can't and won't believe that Mike would start a company that uses fake or purchased security symbols. I don't know how to fix the disappointment.

I have no idea what Mike did or didn't do, or thought or didn't think, but you saying that you "can't and won't believe" is hilarious. There are thousands of people at companies who do this sort of thing, all the time, and have been for years. Not sure how such a thing is hard to believe. There is evidence of others doing it.

You are just saying that you have a closed mind on the subject due to whatever positive bias you have towards him. Which means, that despite any evidence, you are unwilling to be open to what ever the truth is, good or bad. You've already decided.

So, no one should take your opinion on this subject seriously.

 

[chillAtGVC]

I have sleep apnea and use a CPAP machine at night. Philips (yes, that Philips) is one of the two largest manufacturers. A few years ago they had to recall all of their Dream Station CPAP machines as the foam insulation was breaking down and entering the airstream. So it was actually IN the air path (unlike the AE). Guess which machine I was using for years before this came to light?

Companies large and small make materials decisions all the time and sometimes they turn out to be poor decisions. It does not mean they are evil and trying to harm their customers to make more profits, though many people seem to believe this.

 

[chimpybits]

I take it this applies to some batches of the Angus Enhanced, but not the Angus?

 

[chillAtGVC]

I take it this applies to some batches of the Angus Enhanced, but not the Angus?

AFAIK that is correct.

 

[Grass Yes]

I take it this applies to some batches of the Angus Enhanced, but not the Angus?

As you can see from reading this thread, it's in every Angus Enhanced and in no original Angus.

 

[Texus]

Does the Angus Enhanced have fiberglass in the vapor path?

We look into the question of whether the Angus Enhanced is currently harmful to health (fiberglass in the vapor path?), and what you might need to consider.

verdampftnochmal.de

A good response by Verdampft that gives a nice overview of the situation. And YLL is making the right moves in response. From all appearances, any fiberglass even on the early models is isolated from the airflow. Not really clear to me how anyone imagines this fiber from even those early models is supposed to reach the airpath.

BUT trust is gone. They made the change but didn't bring it up to early adopters, only mentioning this once the situation was revealed.

And, while I still have serious doubts about this "fake CE logo" idea, if they misrepresented the materials used in the process of getting the device approved, that is a major concern. Especially considering the heat they got from doubters here in the original Angus thread. That is the piece I'd like to see YLL address publicly.

 

[chillAtGVC]

A good response by Verdampft that gives a nice overview of the situation. And YLL is making the right moves in response. From all appearances, any fiberglass even on the early models is isolated from the airflow. Not really clear to me how anyone imagines this fiber from even those early models is supposed to reach the airpath.

BUT trust is gone. They made the change but didn't bring it up to early adopters, only mentioning this once the situation was revealed.

And, while I still have serious doubts about this "fake CE logo" idea, if they misrepresented the materials used in the process of getting the device approved, that is a major concern. Especially considering the heat they got from doubters here in the original Angus thread. That is the piece I'd like to see YLL address publicly.

Kudos to Verdampft for a very fair and reasoned investigation and statement. I agree that having opened my unit that it seems very unlikely that fibres would reach the air path. Air will follow the path of least resistance. Unless you are sucking hard with your finger over the inlet in the bottom, there is no physics that would draw air from the inside of the unit.

 

[Grass Yes]

My mind is still boggled that anyone would think fiberglass is okay in a vape in any way. I don't care what the manufacturer and its surrogates say, I am not relying on their assurances.

 

[Chocolatetick]

Kudos to Verdampft for a very fair and reasoned investigation and statement. I agree that having opened my unit that it seems very unlikely that fibres would reach the air path. Air will follow the path of least resistance. Unless you are sucking hard with your finger over the inlet in the bottom, there is no physics that would draw air from the inside of the unit.

Sorry for being snarky but I'm assuming you've ran thorough tests to prove your hypothesis that we are not breathing in microscopic fiberglass particles? I've seen the photos that show a much different story. Fiberglass shards ALL OVER the air inlet. Not to mention the tiny particles we can't see. Yllvape didn't even mention fiberglass in their certification report. They deliberately concealed it. They lied. In the model they sent for ROHS testing they labeled it white ceramic. ROHS testing does nothing to test for airpath contamination or inhalation risks. There is literally no testing on this device to prove it is safe to heat up cannabis and inhale from it. Maybe it's Yllvape's response that has you feeling confident and I quote: "the airpath itself is fully isolated. it will not goes in lungs." Yes, folks that is their response. Crazy that they improved the design to now wrap the fiberglass more carefully (instead of just removing it) yet continued to send out units that knowingly still had the exposed fiberglass. The same fiberglass that they initially lied about even being in the device to begin with. I think I speak for others when I say FUCK Yllvape. Trying to stick up for them or giving the benefit of the doubt is no longer warranted. They have a history of issues and this is the final straw. They lied, they got caught, and now they are trying to play damage control. We're smarter than that and for a group focused on healthier alternatives to combustion I can't believe there isn't more concern for a company purposely lying to us about the materials they are exposing our respiratory system to.

 

[Radwin Bodnic]

Yllvape didn't even mention fiberglass in their certification report. They deliberately concealed it. They lied. In the model they sent for ROHS testing they labeled it white ceramic.

I was only making assumptions on my previous post but you seem rather confident. Do you have access to the technical files they filled for these certifications ?
Would you share your sources ?

 

[Durbandream]

What about giving Yllvape the chance in form of time, to correct the mistake or whatever you want to call it?
We've heard nothing about Mike lurking around here. He never intended to poison anyone. He now has to face the task of repairing the device and his reputation.

Which material can withstand temperatures up to 300° Celsius?

He didn't intend do, he just didn't care if he did because his profit margins were more important. There are plenty of safe, well performing vapes to choose from. I'm not giving anyone who puts my lungs at risk being greedy a second chance, that's ridiculous.

 

[popitup]

Really disappointing... but cheers to the the vendor I purchased from made me aware ASAP, and offering options.

 

[Texus]

So how certain are we that what is being found in the AE is in fact fiberglass instead of ceramic fiber?

The white color is one thing that suggests ceramic fiber instead of fiberglass, which is usually a bit off white if not colored pink (like for home insulation).

The thermal properties of ceramic fiber also seem better suited to a vape as well. Since ceramic fibers can tolerate much more heat.

And here is a fairly recent review of findings on ceramic fiber insulation's health impacts. Main takeaway: "The results of epidemiology studies (particularly the UC study) continue to support the conclusion that present RCF occupational exposures are unlikely to result in material decrements in lung function, interstitial fibrosis, incremental lung cancer or mesothelioma in the exposed population."

Still not a great situation. But I haven't seen YLL say it is fiberglass specifically, unless I missed that somewhere (totally possible). So until we have this confirmation, this idea that YLL lied and deceived us in the certification process seems a little premature.

 

[Andreaerdna]

@Texus if that material was safe and sound YLL would have all the interest to clear it, giving all the info about it to show their good engineering and good intentions

The opposite of this is also true, and it is what it is happening

 

[Grass Yes]

Still not a great situation. But I haven't seen YLL say it is fiberglass specifically, unless I missed that somewhere (totally possible). So until we have this confirmation, this idea that YLL lied and deceived us in the certification process seems a little premature.

Seems premature to be speculating about some kind of defense of them too. We know they have obfuscated this. I do not understand what benefit of the doubt you are granting them, as it is totally unearned.

People who continue to make excuses for this are simply fighting transparency and making it more difficult to get a reasonable response to this. I would advise every person looking to defend YLL or muddy the waters about this material to just encourage YLL to address this directly in plain language. There are many unanswered questions and talking about "how much glass fiber in your lungs is harmful" is not helpful.

 

[Chocolatetick]

So how certain are we that what is being found in the AE is in fact fiberglass instead of ceramic fiber?

The white color is one thing that suggests ceramic fiber instead of fiberglass, which is usually a bit off white if not colored pink (like for home insulation).

The thermal properties of ceramic fiber also seem better suited to a vape as well. Since ceramic fibers can tolerate much more heat.

And here is a fairly recent review of findings on ceramic fiber insulation's health impacts. Main takeaway: "The results of epidemiology studies (particularly the UC study) continue to support the conclusion that present RCF occupational exposures are unlikely to result in material decrements in lung function, interstitial fibrosis, incremental lung cancer or mesothelioma in the exposed population."

Still not a great situation. But I haven't seen YLL say it is fiberglass specifically, unless I missed that somewhere (totally possible). So until we have this confirmation, this idea that YLL lied and deceived us in the certification process seems a little premature.

Yllvape's response: "regarding the Angus Enhanced, the glass fiber insulation is completely separated from the air path and the airpath is itself is fully isolated. it will not goes in lungs. and the device is not designed to be disassembled. however since last year we have improved the design by fully wrapping this part for better protection, and get rid of this part."
There you go. They admitted it themselves without creating a formal, intelligible response. Stop giving them the benefit of the doubt.

 

[chillAtGVC]

So how certain are we that what is being found in the AE is in fact fiberglass instead of ceramic fiber?

Based on some online research, I feel fairly certain that the white material is ceramic and not fibreglass. Here is one page and here is another.

Knowing some Mandarin, I wonder how much difference there is between the names of the two in colloquial Chinese. English and German are pretty exact languages. I've studied three Asian languages (Mandarin, Thai, Bahasa Malaysia) and exact descriptions tend to require more verbiage. It is also possible that very early versions used fibreglass, but it would be an odd choice for this sort of high heat insulation application.

@Texus if that material was safe and sound YLL would have all the interest to clear it, giving all the info about it to show their good engineering and good intentions

The opposite of this is also true, and it is what it is happening

Given the usual levels of evidence-less hysteria on social media, do you honestly think that any words would be accepted?

 

[Texus]

"regarding the Angus Enhanced, the glass fiber insulation is completely separated from the air path and the airpath is itself is fully isolated. it will not goes in lungs."

Well, originally I'd said "I stand corrected," but looks like @chillAtGVC (below) came to the same conclusion. Tho it does look like some fiberglass can be lily white after poking around online a bit more.

Based on some online research, I feel fairly certain that the white material is ceramic and not fibreglass. Here is one page and here is another.

Knowing some Mandarin, I wonder how much difference there is between the names of the two in colloquial Chinese. English and German are pretty exact languages. I've studied three Asian languages (Mandarin, Thai, Bahasa Malaysia) and exact descriptions tend to require more verbiage. It is also possible that very early versions used fibreglass, but it would be an odd choice for this sort of high heat insulation application.

And good point that there may be language issues involved.

I'm not giving anyone the benefit of the doubt, whether YLL or some forum rando quick to fling accusations. I believe in data, and some of these claims still feel unsupported to me. And we have more than enough confirmed info to be very concerned.

Regardless, don't get me wrong, I will be exchanging mine for the new version without the fibers.

 

[Grass Yes]

And we have more than enough confirmed info to be very concerned.

And yet you feel the need to speculate and directly contradict what YLL themselves have said. I see you are choosing to believe a "forum rando" about the material based on their claims about Mandarin? Why not go to the source. You have a clear connection to YLL vape and used to speak to "Mike" often. Use that to find out instead of spreading other speculation here, as a forum rando.