dry vapor reduces oxygen uptake in the lungs

Hey man, not trying to invalidate your experience at all. Just want to throw in my 2 cents and try to help. When I switched from smoking to vaping, I also noticed how dry it was making my throat/lungs feel. When I would smoke out of a bowl, I would cough a bit, but after a few hits I was high as I wanted and would drink some water and move on. With my Boundless CF, it would take more hits to get me where I wanted to be, thus inhaling more dry air over a longer period of time. But then I discovered water conditioning. It could just be that the hot vapor is harsh on your lungs. The grind house shift is not known for having cool vapor (it's too small to provide any cooling), but it does have a water pipe attachment you could look into. You could also look for a desktop vape. Desktop vapes are typically harder hitting, (so you have to take less hits) and they almost all work well through water. Log vapes like the e-nano, Underdogs, Woodscents and are very good through water. It's expensive but the vapexhale cloud evo is also designed to work through water. There's a lot you could into. Same for butane vapes, people really Dynavap or Sticky Bricks through water, as well as vapes like the Lotus and the Vapman. Good luck and hope you can find a vape that works for you
 

youandyamanz

New Member
thanks for the response and the 411. interesting to know vaping dates back in some cultures. i realize a bong might help but as far as i know what bongs do mostly is just cool the material and little moisture is actually infused in with it. here are the only threads i could find so far that share similar experiences as me, ten years ago lol


i'm 45 on st patricks day btw and only started the fitness thing winter of 2019. started by walking in the snow by the lake at the beginning of the winter and at the end of the winter was running 8k every day in the snow. then the snow melted and i went to 10k every other day on the grass which was as far as i could take distance running, and since then have dialed the distance back and added sprinting, fartleks and now a hiit routine almost exclusively. this is a mashup of 2.5k grass/snow running and 20 sets of 7 pull ups from a tree all non stop. ie run 250m to the tree (warm up) and do a set then hit the ground running for 75-100 meters back to the tree and so on, barely pausing to take a sip but never stopping. now i wear a dip belt and have sand bags hanging from the tree so i run up and hook on and do the pull ups, and i add 100g of sand every day. also do 10 more sets as a wind down

never once exercised without smoking a small amount of cannabis first, and vaping requires the same amount for me. i would need to try letting the vapor cool completely before inhaling to see any difference, because even though i can take a hot toke from burning weed and i cough, it does not have the same after effect as the hot vapor, which usually has me coughing more than smoking

for me smoking leaves me breathing clearer after, and with mucus production doing it's thing as it should. until this day not one human has ever died or gotten cancer from smoking cannabis, so, you know. between that statistic and my personal experience i don't think the science is against me

i really like the vape high though, very seamless. the burnout is still there though and a bit different than the smoking burnout. but yes i really wanted to like it and was prepared to totally convert but i would need to try maybe a volcano after completely cooled or something before exercise to find out if it changes anything
 

youandyamanz

New Member
from the harvard link:

"The results for the marijuana-only users told a very different story. In general, scores on the lung function tests improved until use, both current and long-term, got very heavy. For example, FEV1, the measure of how strong the lungs are, improved with greater exposure up to 10 joint-years. After 10 joint-years, though, the pot smoking seemed to take a toll, and the FEV1 measures of those smokers declined. But FVC scores — the measure of lung capacity — increased with greater lifetime exposure at 10 joint-years and beyond."

the study at this link however puts the fev1 scores at little to no change after 20 joint-years(phew):

 
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I've seen some of those studies over the years. Interesting stuff. I think obviously the jury is still out on a lot of this stuff and there needs to be more studies done on everything over time to get actual concrete information. Most of what we have now is anecdotal evidence, which seems to point to a lot of people feeling a positive difference in their body when they switch to vaporization. But that doesn't mean everyone, and you seem like you're in the top top percentile in terms of exercise and body exertion, so your situation is unique.

There is obviously a lot of factors. One factor is that a lot of time people actually switch to vaporization because they're feeling ill-effects on their lungs from smoking. For example my brother was a multiple blunt a day kinda guy, and now he has a mighty and feels way better. So with those people, although vaping may also be affecting their lungs, there is still a net positive on the switch to vaping. Smoking anything is generally considered to be pretty bad for your health overall, but another factor is it seems like you were using a very small amount in moderation, so it sounds like you were dodging some of those negative effects that heavy smokers seem to feel.

Here's another anecdotal thing from lurking on here and reddit for years--people who start getting really into vaporizing seem to almost always go on to look for ways to cool their vapor, usually by longer stems or by water conditioning. This is because it's a generally a more comfortable experience than breathing in harsh vapor, but I'm guessing it could also be healthier for their lungs long term.

i realize a bong might help but as far as i know what bongs do mostly is just cool the material and little moisture is actually infused in with it.

I don't think this is correct. A lot of people find volcano vapor to be very dry, even in the bag. So there is a water attachment that people use, called the obsidian, which is known to infuse the vapor with a lot more humidity. If that thing infuses humidity, idk why a regular bubbler wouldn't infuse humidity. I've also heard warmer water can infuse the vapor with even more moisture. If I were you I'd get a water pipe adapter for your vape and a cheap bubbler like something from @Sneaky Pete, Grav, thickassglass, or if you want something really cheap some China glass from DHgate. I'd be very interested to see if you get different results.
 

Kins

Well-Known Member
I don't think this is correct. A lot of people find volcano vapor to be very dry, even in the bag. So there is a water attachment that people use, called the obsidian, which is known to infuse the vapor with a lot more humidity. If that thing infuses humidity, idk why a regular bubbler wouldn't infuse humidity. I've also heard warmer water can infuse the vapor with even more moisture. If I were you I'd get a water pipe adapter for your vape and a cheap bubbler like something from @Sneaky Pete, Grav, thickassglass, or if you want something really cheap some China glass from DHgate. I'd be very interested to see if you get different results.

A regular bubbler does infuse humidity just not as much as the obsidian since it sits on top of the filling chamber. It's much closer to the heat source.
 

youandyamanz

New Member
i do wish to try completely cooled vapor one time before exercise but bringing a volcano which i don't have outdoors doesn't seem possible. some day will try also with the obsidian if possible or some similar vape. i am still of the belief that a bong will not add enough moisture just because the air that passes through it is too quick to get humidified. like that commercial they busted on mythbusters where in the commercial they launched raw shrimp from a cannon and it passed through being breaded and being cooked all mid flight before landing perfectly cooked, there is just not enough time for the chemical reactions to take place

i just got back into my exercise routine since i rolled my foot almost two weeks ago crossing the tram tracks at the park when i quit vaping and thank flygod there are no more residual effects from the vaping. otherwise vaping was a great experience ; (
 
youandyamanz,

Cheebsy

Organicly elev8ed
I know this isn't what you want to hear but you need to give the break from smoking more time. I smoked very heavily, I almost always had a spliff in my hand. I took 6 months to gradually increase my vaping and decrease smoking, and it was at least another month after stopping smoking before I wasn't so irritated by the vapour. I believe, as you clear out your lungs from the residual crap from smoking the irritation clears up a lot too.
 

Deecee

Well-Known Member
I know this isn't what you want to hear but you need to give the break from smoking more time. I smoked very heavily, I almost always had a spliff in my hand. I took 6 months to gradually increase my vaping and decrease smoking, and it was at least another month after stopping smoking before I wasn't so irritated by the vapour. I believe, as you clear out your lungs from the residual crap from smoking the irritation clears up a lot too.
Or microdosing edibles might be an option also.

I regularly use an oximiter cause covid paranoia lol, my oxygen will be 96 in morning and then when i vape with or without water it will be between 97 to 100 after. Many studies can be biased and many factors can be involved be it smoking or vaping I believe consuming cannabis is quite safe.

When I smoked I would cough up black bits during the day and brown blobs in the morning.

Now all I get is a tiny bit of reclaim some mornings not all and im happy with that. Dunno why I always cough up stuff in the morning other than I guess my lungs are good at cleaning themselves.
 

Siebter

Less soul, more mind
It hasn't been around long enough to be PROVEN safe.
While it's possible to prove harm, the safety of a substance can not be proved. Try looking for a safety prove for grapes or pineapples.

---

@youandyamanz – Anyway, I switched to vaping in 2018, at that time I was already running for about ten years. Until then, my exercises were locked at 10k per run, because that was pretty much what my lungs were capable of. Since I have stopped smoking, my fitness improved heavily, both when it comes to my pace and the distances I run. So I can't confirm the experiences described here at all and honestly think that the conclusions you make are utterly wrong. I don't now the device you are using, but I would try something else.
 

WelshBrok

Well-Known Member
My theory here is years of smoking cannabis is what is causing issues with vaping.

Smoking cannabis causes visible and microscopic injury to the large airways. Cannabis vapour is a bronchodilator.
So when you vape cannabis, you relax the muscles in the lungs and widen the bronchi /airways, which if you have many injuries from smoking for years would be similar to stretching the skin around a scab only worse as it’s internal and you need to do it to live.
So my workaround would be to stop smoking for a t-break of a couple of weeks and then try vaping again.

Although I don’t think this is proven, any perception that smoke containing tar and carcinogens is healthier than a vapour containing a lower temp subset of the same chemicals seems illogical, unless vaping temperatures form a poisonous/toxic substance that would normally be denatured/destroyed by combustion heat.
 

youandyamanz

New Member
I know this isn't what you want to hear but you need to give the break from smoking more time. I smoked very heavily, I almost always had a spliff in my hand. I took 6 months to gradually increase my vaping and decrease smoking, and it was at least another month after stopping smoking before I wasn't so irritated by the vapour. I believe, as you clear out your lungs from the residual crap from smoking the irritation clears up a lot too.

i don't smoke heavily

While it's possible to prove harm, the safety of a substance can not be proved. Try looking for a safety prove for grapes or pineapples.

---

@youandyamanz – Anyway, I switched to vaping in 2018, at that time I was already running for about ten years. Until then, my exercises were locked at 10k per run, because that was pretty much what my lungs were capable of. Since I have stopped smoking, my fitness improved heavily, both when it comes to my pace and the distances I run. So I can't confirm the experiences described here at all and honestly think that the conclusions you make are utterly wrong. I don't now the device you are using, but I would try something else.

i'm breathing easy and exercising better again since i switched back to smoking. the decades long studies i linked to show lung capacity increases, as in gets better, as a result of smoking cannabis. if you can't produce the same studies to tell me why i should vape instead of smoke then...

My theory here is years of smoking cannabis is what is causing issues with vaping.

Smoking cannabis causes visible and microscopic injury to the large airways. Cannabis vapour is a bronchodilator.
So when you vape cannabis, you relax the muscles in the lungs and widen the bronchi /airways, which if you have many injuries from smoking for years would be similar to stretching the skin around a scab only worse as it’s internal and you need to do it to live.
So my workaround would be to stop smoking for a t-break of a couple of weeks and then try vaping again.

Although I don’t think this is proven, any perception that smoke containing tar and carcinogens is healthier than a vapour containing a lower temp subset of the same chemicals seems illogical, unless vaping temperatures form a poisonous/toxic substance that would normally be denatured/destroyed by combustion heat.

read the studies i linked to. smoking cannabis improves lung function over time, does not cause cancer, and has never killed anybody evar
 
youandyamanz,

Siebter

Less soul, more mind
if you can't produce the same studies to tell me why i should vape instead of smoke then...
No smoke, no fire: What the initial literature suggests regarding vapourized cannabis and respiratory risk

Cannabis "Vaporization": A Promising Strategy for Smoke Harm Reduction

Medicinal Cannabis: In Vitro Validation of Vaporizers for the Smoke-Free Inhalation of Cannabis

Cannabis Vaporizer Combines Efficient Delivery of THC with Effective Suppression of Pyrolytic Compounds

By the way: when an article says a study says that „Pot smokers can maybe breathe a little easier“ it doesn't tell you that you should smoke instead of vape.
 
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chris 71

Well-Known Member
I started vaping in 2011 after decades of smoking weed daily. I wanted to turn to vaping because a lung xray scared me . a couple actully they said I had chronic bronchitis and COPD visible on x-rays.

Anyway at first I coughed so much from vaping like never before with smoking I even started a thread here about it. I was like what the hell this vaping is harder on my lungs then smoking I was coughing up chunks and feeling like wht the fuck is going on . Anyway I kept vaping cuz the buz was incredible. It took a long time before I really gave up smoking altogether . But once I did stop smoking for some time and just vaped my breathing got better . Anyway after about 2 or 3 years just vaping it no longer botherd me . I had another lung xray and even a mri doc said no signs of bronchitis or COPD or even smoking I guess my lungs healed them selfs .

Anyway point is it takes time to get used to vaping but to me the evidence was in the xrays and mri .

Many times I have let a buddy try my vapes if they are smokers they cough like hell lol
 
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youandyamanz

New Member
the heat of the vapor i am guessing is why i coughed so much from vaping also, and it takes many puffs of vapor from my grindhouse shift to ingest what a few puffs of smoking can. will be holding out for a chance to try cooled vapor some time. saw the show fast foodies yesterday and the guest was ron funches and he got totally blazed with a (edit: crafty) and damn i don't want to give up vaping lol
 
youandyamanz,

Siebter

Less soul, more mind
and damn i don't want to give up vaping lol

You can be sure that you'll find all the help you need on your way to a more enjoyable experience here on fc. It takes a while to adapt to vaping after having smoked, mentally but also physically, and each one of us had his / her very own obstacles to overcome. In your case cooling seems to be a crucial factor, so keep that in mind, there's lots of ways to achieve that. Definitely also look into a different device, usually vaping cuts the amount of herb needed for a session at least in half (often by two thirds or more), also the needed amount of hits is usually *less* with a vaporizer (more THC per hit).
 

hoptimum

Well-Known Member
after smoking weed for almost 30 years i recently bought a vape which i had been using for about 2 months. however, my problems with vaping were as plain as day from the first time i tried it (pre-exercise, read on) and i did not want to accept it but i eventually had to listen to what my body was telling me and return to smoking cannabis. i really did enjoy the vape high also ; (

i became an endurance athlete in the course of less than a year in 2019/2020, and every time i exercise i smoke a small amount of weed first (i also smoke weed other times of day, particularly after exercise to repair/rest). the vape i got was a grindhouse shift, and i used it as intended and kept it clean

from the first time i tried to vape before exercise, and every time after that, it was immediately clear to me that it was shutting my lung function down and i all of a sudden was clawing my way through my exercise routines, my body very subtly did not get enough oxygen and towards the middle of the routine felt almost in pain due to lack of oxygen. switching back to smoking before exercise solved this. and as much as i wanted to like vaping, every time it was the same result, my body was so out of oxygen mid-routine it was borderline painful to try to pull through. it was subtle, as in no panting or wheezing or mucus, but the struggle to get enough energy was brutal

the other times i vaped during the day also left me slightly struggling to breath thereafter. there was no mucus production from vaping, which is a mistake to have thought was a good thing, because when i smoke i breath much clearer after, and my mucus is functioning healthily, bringing things up from my lungs

no matter how much i tried to tell people on vapor reddit, i was laughed at and down voted and eventually kicked off. there are also a few threads here about it but they are 10 plus years ago

my wish is they develop a vape that can infuse the vapor with a large amount of humidity, enough to counter this problem, but this seems a ways off if it is even possible. vaping is still a new technology that we don't have enough life-long vapers to study yet, but what i have read says the cilia damaged by the dry vapor(?) will grow back if vaping is stopped, and should take a few weeks, thank goodness
You do realize that the chemical process of vaporization -- the conversion of a solid to a gas, i.e. vapor -- also occurs during smoking, just at higher temps.
 
hoptimum,

BrianTL

Westchester, NY
You do realize that the chemical process of vaporization -- the conversion of a solid to a gas, i.e. vapor -- also occurs during smoking, just at higher temps.

Well if we want to be technical, vaporization is a physical change and the chemical make up of the material remains unchanged, despite the physical state changing.

Smoking, aka combustion, is a chemical change. There's still some vaporization in joints and such because the heat being thrown off from the cherry is basically hitting the flower along the joint with some convection action, but also mixed with smoke.
 

hoptimum

Well-Known Member
Well if we want to be technical, vaporization is a physical change and the chemical make up of the material remains unchanged, despite the physical state changing.

Smoking, aka combustion, is a chemical change. There's still some vaporization in joints and such because the heat being thrown off from the cherry is basically hitting the flower along the joint with some convection action, but also mixed with smoke.
If you’re inhaling, whether it’s smoking, vaping or dabbing, you’re inhaling the vapor (solid converted to a gas) which is the consequence of heat being applied to a solid. THC and other vaporized cannabinoids pass through the alveoli. If it wasn't a gas it wouldn't be passing through the alveoli
 
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hoptimum,

terac.one

Member
Manufacturer
Hi everyone, and look to my thread ;)



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justcametomind

Well-Known Member
i don't smoke heavily



i'm breathing easy and exercising better again since i switched back to smoking. the decades long studies i linked to show lung capacity increases, as in gets better, as a result of smoking cannabis. if you can't produce the same studies to tell me why i should vape instead of smoke then...



read the studies i linked to. smoking cannabis improves lung function over time, does not cause cancer, and has never killed anybody evar
Even if you don't smoke heavily you should listen to what @Cheebsy says if you want to switch. It takes some weeks to adapt.
That being said you could ditch altogether pulmonary absorption and use edibles, or tinctures which are said to have a faster onset than edibles (15 mins).
Other than that you could probably exercise without any weed as your body produces endocannabinoids while engaged in physical activity.
What i like the best is having weed after physical activity, I don't see any advantage on having it prior. Cannabis has muscle relaxant properties, other than the fact it kills any sport mood, to me it's like doing stretching before exercising, quite counterproductive.
Cannabis lowers blood pressure too, same thing that happens when digestion takes place. I'd never exercise immediately after eating for the same reason, same goes for cannabis.
Imho you would exercise even better without cannabis, or at least without having it before your exercise.
 
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justcametomind,
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youandyamanz

New Member
Hi everyone, and look to my thread ;)



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this is something i would like to try(!)

Even if you don't smoke heavily you should listen to what @Cheebsy says if you want to switch. It takes some weeks to adapt.
That being said you could ditch altogether pulmonary absorption and use edibles, or tinctures which are said to have a faster onset than edibles (15 mins).
Other than that you could probably exercise without any weed as your body produces endocannabinoids while engaged in physical activity.
What i like the best is having weed after physical activity, I don't see any advantage on having it prior. Cannabis has muscle relaxant properties, other than the fact it kills any sport mood, to me it's like doing stretching before exercising, quite counterproductive.
Cannabis lowers blood pressure too, same thing that happens when digestion takes place. I'd never exercise immediately after eating for the same reason, same goes for cannabis.
Imho you would exercise even better without cannabis, or at least without having it before your exercise.

i tried over a few months and the effects were the same. also the edible high is very different from the smoking high for me. it takes almost as much out of me as drinking and for the same duration sometimes for a day or more if i ate too much and i don't drink. also for me it takes 1 1/2 to 2 hours for edibles to kick in

i did catch major contact buzzes when i trimmed my balcony plants, and the feeling was unlike the cannabis high i know. it felt like my whole body was slightly electrocuted and i was feeling wired, like i did a bunch of cocaine (never tried before but imagine). nothing like the typical smoking/edible high. i then went for a run and ran my legs into the ground because i felt no pain anywhere, which ended up messing my knee up for a few months : (

for me it takes the same amount or more to get high from a vape compared to smoking. i remember trying vaping back in '96 and that was the conventional wisdom at the time also

i am i guess someone who likes the mind body meld of exercising while high, it makes it more intuitive, primal, in tune with my body and allows me to push hard without focusing on one specific thing or fixating on form or time or space lol. i notice the come down from smoking has a bit of a body effect unlike the come down from vaping. kind of like a warm feeling in the bones. not sure what that is though
 

Cheebsy

Organicly elev8ed
i did catch major contact buzzes when i trimmed my balcony plants, and the feeling was unlike the cannabis high i know. it felt like my whole body was slightly electrocuted and i was feeling wired,


Hmmm, this sounds very odd. I think you may be allergic in some way. There are people who cannot touch flower, especially processing it, without having allergic reactions. Just a thought... Maybe try a cart to see if you still have a problem with it? *Shrug*
 

JCat

Well-Known Member
Accessory Maker
Hmmm, this sounds very odd. I think you may be allergic in some way. There are people who cannot touch flower, especially processing it, without having allergic reactions. Just a thought... Maybe try a cart to see if you still have a problem with it? *Shrug*
Also the THC wouldn't be activated at this point so I don't think transdermal absorption would have any "high" associated with it.
 
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