My thoughts are that's completely fine if you a recreational user, however as a medical user I disagree with those imposed limitations and will continue to exercise civil disobedience.
Driving whilst high
- Thread starter bluenavey00
- Start date
EverythingsHazy
Well-Known Member
I disagree that recreational and medical users should have different laws to abide by. The level of THC in your system that makes you a danger on the road should be determined, and then everyone should have to abide by the restrictions.
Whether or not Cannabis helps medicinal users is irrelevant when it comes to the safety of others.
I never said they should have different laws to abide by. I said as a recreational user, that's fine to reduce consumption to .02g a day if you want but as a medical user I won't stress myself out over such small tolerances. Consider the alternatives - now someone who is afraid to medicate for fear of police checkpoints instead has a seizure while behind the wheel and drives through a school zone cross walk. Is that safer?
There is no generic magic number that makes someone "safe"
Statistically it's currently irrelevant to even debate such when so many other dangers to driving could be mentioned. I'm a million times more concerned with people texting while driving than those using cannabis. If statistical numerical data can demonstrate it is a leading problem amongst drivers I'll change my mind, but until then there is a lot of BLAME amongst cannabis and impaired drivers, but not a lot of factual evidence. Just propaganda.
EverythingsHazy
Well-Known Member
I thought you meant that the restrictions on blood THC content were ok for recreational users and not medicinal ones.
Also, I don't see it the way you do, about the risking a seizure. If you can't make the legal limit, and it's risky to drive as a result of a potential seizure, then you just shouldn't drive. What if having a single drink half an hour before driving was the only thing that happened to help prevent these seizures? Would that make it ok? No. They just wouldn't be able to drive.
The "lesser of two evils" argument isn't a valid one, regardless if the other side of the comparison is a higher risk of having a seizure, texting, being drunk, etc.. One thing being worse than another, doesn't lessen the level to which the other thing is bad. It's worse to punch someone than it is to slap them, but that doesn't make slapping people any more acceptable.
Also, while you may not "feel" high, I do believe there are dangerous (for driving) effects of Cannabis, that are dependent on blood levels of THC. While it might be different for everyone, there still has to be a set limit. The same goes for alcohol. Just because some people can handle more than others, doesn't mean they should be allowed to have more in their system while driving. That would be far too complicated to deal with efficiently.
This is probably more suited for the "Driving While High" thread, though. Maybe we can revive that one, instead of derailing this one.
Such as?
EverythingsHazy
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't be surprised if minute amounts of THC in the blood causes slowed reaction times, and increased focus, the latter of which isn't ideal when you need to be aware of the entire environment, and not just the space directly in front of you.
I think Cannabis has lots of benefits, but I don't believe it is safe to drive while under its influence. It would be great to have more legitimate, unbiased studies on the effects of residual THC in the body, at different time periods after your last ingestion of it. In my opinions, the long lasting calmness (however mild) you get from Cannabis use (especially daily use which keeps the THC levels in your body at higher levels), can't be good for quick thinking and fast reactions.
Quetzalcoatl
DEADY GUERRERO/DIRT COBAIN/GEORGE KUSH
An interesting topic for sure, but I think the effects of cannabis on driving would be better suited for its own thread instead of a thread on micro-dosing (where we're still after desired effects but with reduced amounts).
There are lots of people period that aren't good at quick thinking or fast reactions but they can still get a driver's license and pass the test
LOTS of people ... should we have minimum fitness and intelligence levels to drive? (we sort of do but they are very, very low)I kinda' agree with a lot of what you say, but the part about residual THC levels and calmness is too far IMO ... there is probably a time frame after consumption for safe limits, but the level for chronic users and residual levels from repeated use unnecessarily penalize chronic (and thus medical) users. I have much less residual effects after consuming .1-.2 two hours prior to driving than a non-chronic user, and would pass all roadside type tests, but would fail the saliva and blood tests I imagine.
THC content vs alcohol content in blood do not equate to the same thing ... the levels are not relatively linear in the same way I don't think ...
EverythingsHazy
Well-Known Member
Well, I do believe we should have stricter tests for licenses. Some of the people we allow on the road are clearly unfit for driving. I also think we should have repeated retesting after a certain age. Just because you managed to pass a test when you were 20 doesn't mean your reflexes haven't slowed to dangerous levels by the time you are 60-80yrs old. I've mentioned a lot this stuff in the Driving While High thread, in the past.There are lots of people period that aren't good at quick thinking or fast reactions but they can still get a driver's license and pass the test
I kinda' agree with a lot of what you say, but the part about residual THC levels and calmness is too far IMO ... there is probably a time frame after consumption for safe limits, but the level for chronic users and residual levels from repeated use unnecessarily penalize chronic (and thus medical) users. I have much less residual effects after consuming .1-.2 two hours prior to driving than a non-chronic user, and would pass all roadside type tests, but would fail the saliva and blood tests I imagine.
THC content vs alcohol content in blood do not equate to the same thing ... the levels are not relatively linear in the same way I don't think ...
Yea, I agree. Maybe we should revive that thread, and the can of worms that lives in itAn interesting topic for sure, but I think the effects of cannabis on driving would be better suited for its own thread instead of a thread on micro-dosing (where we're still after desired effects but with reduced amounts).
Squiby
Well-Known Member
Yea, I agree. Maybe we should revive that thread, and the can of worms that lives in it
For example, I vaped a nice healthy .015 nug of full bodied flavour, absolutely delicious Purple Space Cookies and read this thread, not noticing that the topic had derailed one iota.
Microdosing is definitely where it's at!
flotntoke
thoroughly vaped
There are lots of people period that aren't good at quick thinking or fast reactions but they can still get a driver's license and pass the test
I kinda' agree with a lot of what you say, but the part about residual THC levels and calmness is too far IMO ... there is probably a time frame after consumption for safe limits, but the level for chronic users and residual levels from repeated use unnecessarily penalize chronic (and thus medical) users. I have much less residual effects after consuming .1-.2 two hours prior to driving than a non-chronic user, and would pass all roadside type tests, but would fail the saliva and blood tests I imagine.
THC content vs alcohol content in blood do not equate to the same thing ... the levels are not relatively linear in the same way I don't think ...
The reality is that alcohol legal levels are total bullshit, also. There is no tried and true way to determine the level of DWI for lower levels based on any known testing, so they go with works best and is easiest for them. For instance... tho I drank a good bit in college (decades ago) I had cut back quite a bit by my mid-40s. A couple drinks while out with a friend or at a party, maybe once every couple months. Life changes, and relationships change, and a few years ago I started dating someone who drinks much more often - which of course leads to me drinking much more often.
For years, 2 decent beers (ABV of 7% or so) would leave me "wobbly". Certainly not in the best condition to drive, but at my weight then, if I had them over 2 hours my BAC would be well within legal limit. I wouldn't say I was "totally" DUI or out of it, but I could tell my buzz was affecting driving skills. Now that I am more into craft beers and drink more often (usually a couple times a week), my motor skills, ability to think, attention, etc are not nearly as bad after 3 decent beers in the same time period.
I fortunately have not had to blow in a tube for a cop lately, but assume that my BAC would be over the legal limit - even though I'm not as impaired. The last time I did have to take a breathalizer test was before I started drinking a bit more. I'd had 3 beers and dinner and was pulled over because of a taillight out (one that is purely cosmetic) by a cop that was hunting DUIs on a Friday night. I was sure I was going to be locked up because of how I felt. I blew a .027 - not even close to legal limits anywhere! These days I could probably easily blow a .10 (big trouble!), even though less impaired.
I don't think it's unreasonable to have the same situations with weed. I've smoked/vaped more and less for periods of time over the years, and have had to take T-breaks for whatever reasons. For the past 5 years I'm pretty much a daily user (pretty much vapor only for about 7 years), and usually only vape later in the afternoon or post dinner, but have days where I am lit up from breakfast. This high tolerance level allows me to vape say 2 VC loads (or similar) and be functional (and more functional than MOST driving around out there). But, if I'm cutting back for whatever reason that 2 loads could have me ripped. Would assume the same would be true for many with lower tolerance.
This is before we even get into the issues with THC staying in your system for days/weeks, long after any impairment has gone. For regular users, as many of us here are, THC can be in your blood for at least a week after you last vaped. For occasional users it is usually gone within 24 hours. I can't speak for all here, but I'd have to say my ability to drive my best (forget about comparing to many of the assholes out on the road) is back within 6 hours of getting high. I don't think occasional users bounce back as quickly and may be a little "off" even the next day.
So, I'm calling bullshit on all of it!! However, it will still bring charges just the same. So, we have to deal with the system as it is. The last people law enforcement - or those that write the laws - are going to listen to about this are daily users.
FWIW, I do vape while driving pretty regularly. More an issue of how life is right now than the fact that I can't wait until I get to my next safe spot to get high. And, when the GF and I go on a road trip of more than an hour to anywhere, you know my vapes are loaded and ready to go before I even put my shoes on! Are my driving skills all they could be when I'm doing this? Hell no! Are they still better including attentiveness, reaction times, etc, than more than 75% of the idiots and assholes on the road? Unquestionably!
Monday I was 1 VC load in and feeling pretty good while cruising around on a beautiful day. The idiot in front of me (looked like a soccer mom with the fish and other religious stuff on back of mini-van) probably was not stoned. But, had the music up loud enough that she couldn't hear my repeated horn blasts to go when the green arrow was up for our turn. She was apparently texting or doing something else with her phone. I'm not saying I'm more right than her, but was easy to watch her looking down and swerving all over the road when we finally moved along after the next traffic light cycle. Who would you rather be on the roads with? Me, with a slight buzz and probably reduced reaction times and peripheral vision? Or, a typical self absorbed asshole that can't get off the texting even while in motion to the point of regularly shifting over the yellow line?
Physical impairment, especially as measured in blood levels or swabs, has little to do with safety or ability to drive unless you're blitzed. I'm not talking about slit open eyes whether from 4 or 5 VC loads or a BAC of .15 or something. It never has, and it never will.
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C No Ego
Well-Known Member
as to thc that accumulates in fat... the thc that does is not active metabolites but the ooh spent or burnt out waste metabolite version of the compound... once activated via heat (decarboxylate) the thc is active for a short period of time before environmental degradation takes over and that active thc is spent... there can be residuals occuring but it is not so much the active (psychoactive) form of that molecule... you can feel in your biology when thc is active and when it's not...
converting thc to delta 11 hydroxy via high thc food edibles is about as close to residual effects as possible though the time to convert thc over to 11 hydroxy is more the active effects as there is still metabolic waste derived from 11 hydroxy,, not sure if it's ooh or what?
converting thc to delta 11 hydroxy via high thc food edibles is about as close to residual effects as possible though the time to convert thc over to 11 hydroxy is more the active effects as there is still metabolic waste derived from 11 hydroxy,, not sure if it's ooh or what?
EverythingsHazy
Well-Known Member
That goes back to the fact that "the lesser of two evils" argument isn't a sound one.
This may be true, but there has to be a set a standard to follow. It's not feasible to have a different limit for everyone, so the minimum potentially dangerous limit for the average population should be the standard. You can't set laws on DWI based those who lie on the extreme ends of the tolerance spectrum.
Do you have any studies to suggest that there is no THC (not THCOOH) stored in,and released from our fatty tissues?
I was under the impression that we only had nonpsychoactive THC-metabolites in our system for more than 24 hours, but I've been reading some studies, and apparently, THC (not just THCOOH) is stored in our fatty tissues, and released into the bloodstream. Things like stress, weight loss, food deprivation, exercise, etc., can cause this stores THC to be released in higher quantities. So far, I've yet to find a study that acurately assesses the physical effects this remaining THC has on our minds/bodies.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2782342/?report=classic
nomadicsoul34
Well-Known Member
I posted this in another thread but thought it relevent to this one too . It relates to roadside and post accident drug testing. Saliva testing here in the UK is standard now and the limit is set at 5ng following a positive result a blood test will be given and the prosecution level is set at 2ng.
Looking at scientific research carried out a few years ago it reads that amongst 10 patients* tested with 25mg of thc ( 0.1g of strong 25% thc bud ) all 10 tested below the 5ng threshold after 24 hours but 2 would have failed the test after 16 hours and 5 out of 10 would have failed after 8 hours
So in short if you smoke more that 0.1 grams you may not be safe to drive within 24hours. Safe from having to do a blood test back at station that is.
To save you guys the trouble Ive worked through the table and adjusted the diluted numbers and these are the amounts of THC found in the swabs of each of the 10 subjects after a single 25mg THC splif after 8 and 16 hours.
Patient 1- 10 Each ng number represents a side of the cheek. ie left and right .
Remember 5ng is a fail and will lead to a blood test back at station.
After 8 hrs
Patient No- left cheek - right cheek
1* 15ng 9ng
2 * 6 6
3 4.5 2.7
4 * 5.1 3
5 0 2.1
6 0 0
7 * 6.3 4.5
8 1.5 2.4
9 1.2 2.1
10* 5.7 4.8
16 hours
1 * 6ng 6ng
2 2.4 2.4
3 2.7 1.41
4* 57 36 these number look like an error
5 0 0
6 0 0
7 2.4 3.6
8 0.9 0.6
9 0.9 1.5
10 2.1 2.4
http://www.orasure.com/docs/pdfs/pr...uana-Use-by-Oral-Fluid-and-Urine-Analysis.pdf *Numbers in the saliva test chart in the link are diluted numbers so remember to multiply by 3 to get the true figure of ng in saliva that would be detected by police.
Seeing as prosecution would be achieved using a blood test ive done some research on that too and here is a snap shot of my findings. Remember that 2ng in blood is the legal limit for Driving with drugs in the system in the UK and blood and saliva will not correspond.
I hope this is useful in helping you guys keep your licences , this is just for information purposes only and i havent double checked this info . im not a doctor or a lawyer and i take no responsibility for your choices re driving after using cannabis..
Blood test
Blood-based drug tests screen for a wide variety of illicit substances and have short detection windows for most, meaning they're typically used to establish very recent drug use. THC can be undetectable by blood test as soon as six hours after it enters your system — even though it's still there in trace amounts — and heavy smokers may test positive for up to 24 hours.
https://mic.com/articles/168783/how-long-does-marijuana-stay-in-your-system-how-thc-blood-tests-work-and-what-you-should-know#.NnFtwl4GK
Delta-9-THC concentration usually drops below 5 ng/mL within 3-4 hours post dose. Frequent users may have longer detection times. (2ng is the uk limit)
http://www.drugdetection.net/drug.htm
While patients seem to control their individual doses by varying how deeply they inhale, the average amount of THC in the blood dropped to 60% of the peak at 15 min after the last inhale and to 20% at 30 min. By the 2 hour mark, THC levels were below 5 ng/ml.
It took between 3 to 12 hours for THC to drop below detection limits (0.5 ng/ml) for the low-dose group and from 6 to 27 hours for the high-dose group of the study. However, the subjects of the study were not regular marijuana smokers, which explains why THC levels fell so quickly.
http://www.truthonpot.com/2013/03/28/how-long-does-marijuana-stay-in-your-system/
The highest THC blood concentrations — around 38 micrograms per liter — were seen just 10 minutes after smoking. But after half an hour, concentrations had decreased to about 10 micrograms per liter, on average, and by 1.4 hours, levels had decreased to about 4 micrograms per liter.
http://www.livescience.com/53578-marijuana-driving-thc-blood-test.html
Blood tests, unlike urinalysis, detect the presence illicit drugs, not inactive drug metabolites. In general, THC only remains detectable in the blood of cannabis consumers for a few hours (though low, residual levels may be detected in chronic smokers for up to 12-24+ hours if more sensitive technology is used). Because of this narrow detection window, blood tests are typically only administered in the workplace post-accident in order to estimate recent cannabis consumption. Therefore, most after-hours consumers have little to fear from a blood screen.
http://norml.org/marijuana/drug-testing/item/the-abcs-of-marijuana-and-drug-testing
it won’t stay in your blood stream long: it actually becomes undetectable by blood tests after no more than four to eight hours. In urine tests, it will be detectable for an even shorter time.
http://greenito.com/news/how-long-thc-detectable-blood/
That means a lab test would only find a trace amount of THC in the blood of occasional smokers after a few hours. "You could have smoked a good amount, just waited two hours, still be pretty intoxicated and yet pass the drug test [for driving]," says Haney. *** i have no idea what the limit is for the drug driving test he refer to here it maye not be the case wherever you are.
And if you eat the weed instead of smoking it, Haney says, your blood never carries that much THC. "With oral THC, it takes several hours for [blood THC] to peak, but it remains very low compared to the smoked route, even though they're very high. It's a hundredfold difference," she says.http://www.npr.org/sections/health-...to-make-a-solid-test-for-driving-while-stoned
Looking at scientific research carried out a few years ago it reads that amongst 10 patients* tested with 25mg of thc ( 0.1g of strong 25% thc bud ) all 10 tested below the 5ng threshold after 24 hours but 2 would have failed the test after 16 hours and 5 out of 10 would have failed after 8 hours
So in short if you smoke more that 0.1 grams you may not be safe to drive within 24hours. Safe from having to do a blood test back at station that is.
To save you guys the trouble Ive worked through the table and adjusted the diluted numbers and these are the amounts of THC found in the swabs of each of the 10 subjects after a single 25mg THC splif after 8 and 16 hours.
Patient 1- 10 Each ng number represents a side of the cheek. ie left and right .
Remember 5ng is a fail and will lead to a blood test back at station.
After 8 hrs
Patient No- left cheek - right cheek
1* 15ng 9ng
2 * 6 6
3 4.5 2.7
4 * 5.1 3
5 0 2.1
6 0 0
7 * 6.3 4.5
8 1.5 2.4
9 1.2 2.1
10* 5.7 4.8
16 hours
1 * 6ng 6ng
2 2.4 2.4
3 2.7 1.41
4* 57 36 these number look like an error
5 0 0
6 0 0
7 2.4 3.6
8 0.9 0.6
9 0.9 1.5
10 2.1 2.4
http://www.orasure.com/docs/pdfs/pr...uana-Use-by-Oral-Fluid-and-Urine-Analysis.pdf *Numbers in the saliva test chart in the link are diluted numbers so remember to multiply by 3 to get the true figure of ng in saliva that would be detected by police.
Seeing as prosecution would be achieved using a blood test ive done some research on that too and here is a snap shot of my findings. Remember that 2ng in blood is the legal limit for Driving with drugs in the system in the UK and blood and saliva will not correspond.
I hope this is useful in helping you guys keep your licences , this is just for information purposes only and i havent double checked this info . im not a doctor or a lawyer and i take no responsibility for your choices re driving after using cannabis..
Blood test
Blood-based drug tests screen for a wide variety of illicit substances and have short detection windows for most, meaning they're typically used to establish very recent drug use. THC can be undetectable by blood test as soon as six hours after it enters your system — even though it's still there in trace amounts — and heavy smokers may test positive for up to 24 hours.
https://mic.com/articles/168783/how-long-does-marijuana-stay-in-your-system-how-thc-blood-tests-work-and-what-you-should-know#.NnFtwl4GK
Delta-9-THC concentration usually drops below 5 ng/mL within 3-4 hours post dose. Frequent users may have longer detection times. (2ng is the uk limit)
http://www.drugdetection.net/drug.htm
While patients seem to control their individual doses by varying how deeply they inhale, the average amount of THC in the blood dropped to 60% of the peak at 15 min after the last inhale and to 20% at 30 min. By the 2 hour mark, THC levels were below 5 ng/ml.
It took between 3 to 12 hours for THC to drop below detection limits (0.5 ng/ml) for the low-dose group and from 6 to 27 hours for the high-dose group of the study. However, the subjects of the study were not regular marijuana smokers, which explains why THC levels fell so quickly.
http://www.truthonpot.com/2013/03/28/how-long-does-marijuana-stay-in-your-system/
The highest THC blood concentrations — around 38 micrograms per liter — were seen just 10 minutes after smoking. But after half an hour, concentrations had decreased to about 10 micrograms per liter, on average, and by 1.4 hours, levels had decreased to about 4 micrograms per liter.
http://www.livescience.com/53578-marijuana-driving-thc-blood-test.html
Blood tests, unlike urinalysis, detect the presence illicit drugs, not inactive drug metabolites. In general, THC only remains detectable in the blood of cannabis consumers for a few hours (though low, residual levels may be detected in chronic smokers for up to 12-24+ hours if more sensitive technology is used). Because of this narrow detection window, blood tests are typically only administered in the workplace post-accident in order to estimate recent cannabis consumption. Therefore, most after-hours consumers have little to fear from a blood screen.
http://norml.org/marijuana/drug-testing/item/the-abcs-of-marijuana-and-drug-testing
it won’t stay in your blood stream long: it actually becomes undetectable by blood tests after no more than four to eight hours. In urine tests, it will be detectable for an even shorter time.
http://greenito.com/news/how-long-thc-detectable-blood/
That means a lab test would only find a trace amount of THC in the blood of occasional smokers after a few hours. "You could have smoked a good amount, just waited two hours, still be pretty intoxicated and yet pass the drug test [for driving]," says Haney. *** i have no idea what the limit is for the drug driving test he refer to here it maye not be the case wherever you are.
And if you eat the weed instead of smoking it, Haney says, your blood never carries that much THC. "With oral THC, it takes several hours for [blood THC] to peak, but it remains very low compared to the smoked route, even though they're very high. It's a hundredfold difference," she says.http://www.npr.org/sections/health-...to-make-a-solid-test-for-driving-while-stoned
biohacker
H.R.E.A.M
Not a study just my n=1 but you know how heavy of a user I am. When I take breaks (like right now) there is NO question that I feel "high" many times even as far as over a month post last use (I have failed a piss test even 7 weeks after last use). I don't know the exact mechanism, but i'm assuming it's being burned up in my fat stores. Things such as a hot drinks (especially coffee), chocolate, beer, or even just at random (maybe from exercise or fasting) cause this feeling of being stoned. I don't think it would impair my ability to operate a vehicle, but I definitely feel something that is not sober.
I've heard that we tend to go on autopilot alot while driving, and multitask or drive under conditions that we shouldn't, because 99% of the time nothing happens because we anticipate and expect. However, it's that 1% when you do have your guard down that causes misery.
I've cut out many people (alive and dead) out of vehicles, and most of the time it has been related to alcohol and/or drugs. I personally know my limit, and when my tolerance is high driving isn't an issue, but when it drops to nil after a protracted break, I simply know I am too inebriated to drive. Edibles? Fuhgeddaboudit!
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How many due to cannabis?
biohacker
H.R.E.A.M
More than you would think. Mostly young punks. Makes me cringe even thinking about it, so i'm not going there...the ptsd is enough.
nomadicsoul34
Well-Known Member
Ive also dealt with car accidents ( 16 years as a firefighter ) that i believe may have been caused by being under the influence of cannabis but it is hard to know for sure as generally people dont reek of it as they do with booze. I dont think its quite as bad as alcohol but it is still a no brainer to me that it can lead to accidents.
This is from Ireland, it states that 38.7% of deaths ( of those who tested positive for drugs ) in a six year period tested positive for Cannabis.
http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Campaigns/Anti Drug Driving/Prevalence_of_Drug_Driving _in_Ireland.pdf
This is from Ireland, it states that 38.7% of deaths ( of those who tested positive for drugs ) in a six year period tested positive for Cannabis.
http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Campaigns/Anti Drug Driving/Prevalence_of_Drug_Driving _in_Ireland.pdf
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Vapestein
Well-Known Member
Vaping works wonder on long drives. Miles on interstate cuts easy. Driving in NYC, makes me drive slower than normal (being paranoid). Most of my friends aren't comfy driving while high so I'm the designated driver. No accidents in 3 yrs of high driving and thousands of miles under my belt.
But everyone is different. So you gotta know your limits !
But everyone is different. So you gotta know your limits !
CalyxSmokr
Well-Known Member
The danger is real but 2ng is absolute bullshit. Scam science and law enforcement.
biohacker
H.R.E.A.M
Exactly! But if you're driving slow and paranoid, you are over the limit IMHO.
Laantje
Well-Known Member
I try to avoid it as much as possible, but in very few situations I do have to drive after vaping. I don't think its hard though, haven't had much problems with it. I just need to concentrate a bit more than normal but other than that I'm fine.
However, I still prefer not to. That's why I try to avoid it as much as possible.
However, I still prefer not to. That's why I try to avoid it as much as possible.
nomadicsoul34
Well-Known Member
The cyclist in black with no lights coming down the outside, the child running into the road , the lost driving swerving across lanes etc are examples of reasons drivers need to be fully alert at all times. Tired drivers are a risk , drunk drivers are a risk and bad drivers are a risk ..why add stoned drivers to the mix just so people can enjoy herb and drive?
I'm not stoned 2 hours after consumption (or 4 or 6) being the quantities I typically consume in a sitting and my chronic usage because it's medical. The acute effects last from 5-15 minutes generally (maybe 30 minutes first time in the morning); to be safe try to wait minimum of 1-2 hours anyways.
At any point in time, on any day, of any year, I will fail the test I believe; I guess I should take more harmful pharmaceuticals for my condition that make me feel more "stoned", make me more of a road hazard, that are less effective for my condition (which adds to the hazard), and that way I'll be fully legal and won't risk incarceration.
Nice legal and medical system! I want roadside tests for opiates, caffeine (from energy drinks), stimulants (such as Ritalin), etc., etc.; and I want the levels such that you are arrested on the spot if you take the recommended dosage by the doctor at the recommended times. 1st offence results in the loss of your license for a year and will cost you $25,000-$40,000. 2nd offence results in a minimum of 30 days in jail. Seems reasonable to me .... oh yeah ... that's right ... we only want to put cannabis and other illicit drug users in jail (we're ok with people being stoned out of their tree on pharmaceuticals and plowing people over in the road ... why target those people as they are normal? .... much easier to target the cannabis user in a victimless crime ...)
Just so people can "enjoy" herb? Cause that's the only reason right, what about for relief of crippling debilitating disease? What about people who can't even get to work without medicating? Or even get out of bed. Should they just stay home and give up trying to support their family?
And not everyone that uses cannabis is "stoned" that's kinda like saying everyone who drinks a beer is hammered.
I can understand and respect the appeal of safer roadways, but we need a better way of getting there than leaving our sick brothers and sisters out in the rain. Furthermore, we absolutely need to repeal and redesign pharmacies since it's pretty silly to have so many drive through drug stores then expect people to not use medication while driving. Might as well be illegal to eat a chicken sandwich while driving too since digging for the BBQ sauce could cause someone to lose focus and drive off a cliff. And that's not sarcasm, the streets are dangerous, and we do need change, I just want to hear how to get there without alienating a giant group of sick people.