Driving whilst high

kellya86

Herb gardener...
I am definitely looking forward to self-driving cars. It should make the roads a lot safer, eventually, and makes traveling even easier.

I'm sure I read somewhere, that it will still be illegal to be under the influence, whether through drink or drugs, while in a driverless car...

I think you always will have the option to override the auto part of the car....

This means you are always potentially, in control of a motor vehicle....

So I don't think we can all look forward to being shuttled around in our little hotboxes.....
 

HighSeasSailor

Well-Known Member
In most of the US it's technically illegal to be intoxicated in a cab as well. However, it's also considered inappropriate policing in most of the US to actually charge persons taking a cab home from a bar or restaurant while drunk since this discourages responsible behavior (taking a cab rather than driving). Most likely while we're in transition between manual and automatic vehicles the law will be similarly applied in most cases, and eventually a moot point when manual driving is an unusual thing to do.

Consider also that auto accidents are the leading cause of death in persons 15-24 and in the top 3 until age 44 or so. I imagine that in the long term it will eventually become illegal and antisocial to manually drive a vehicle in public without justifiable cause and our descendants will look back on how crazy we all were to knowingly engage in such a risky activity just to pick up McD's.

PS - There are significant economic implications to automated vehicles as well, namely in the shipping/trucking industry, but that's another story.
 

u bwade wunner

Well-Known Member
From the cannabis news thread to here.

Unfortunately, some if not many of us in this forum may have 5 nanograms of THC in our bloodstream when we wake up in the morning... :(

For anyone like myself working, mixing a stressful job/ chill/winding down after work scenario I offer my thoughts and advice after living through work/ roadside swab testing for a number of years.

Anxiety caused by worry re: roadside or work swab tests can eat you up, making You tired,erratic and angry towards work managers,employers government and police who administer a testing policy that appears cruel and invasive to our personal rights ..been there,no fun and most of it is avoidable.

Insurance companies backed by big banking are pushing through this random testing malarky worldwide under the guise of ensuring safety on our roads and workplace,thus ensuring another loophole so they don't have to pay out.It may have been 6 or 8 hours since you're last doob or vape and You may feel perfect to drive.Sadly if the law or you're Work safety team find traces show up on a swab test You are in the shit without a paddle.With work,last guy I know got 3 weeks suspension from work.Work are deducting his wages from his sick allowance and that doesn t include the public embarrassment of it all.Everyone finds out about it and some even joke about him behind his back.a positive at a police stop leads to Infringements,confiscation of your licence (a year) and the oppressive nature of the legal system courtrooms etc.Police will then pull You over much more using there number plate tracking onboard their vehicles and generally make life hard for You.

I struggled with the ethics of this in the beginning...In Australia,work swab testing and police random swab testing have been commonplace for a number of years.a swab test takes 15 minutes or so to conduct and sometimes that time isn't always available to traffic cops,bear that in mind.

There are things You can do to limit your chances of a positive the following day after consuming.

Drink lots of water, lots and lots.Wash your teeth gums and tongue under and over rigorously and rinse with salt or mouthwash solutions.

White vinegar prior to an oral swab may help to clear any traces of any substance in you're mouth also.carry a small bottle in your glovebox and administer if needed.bicarbonate of soda and coconut oil pulling also help o keep you're mouth clean.

local workers I know recommend a 10 hour gap before driving...if you're work shift starts at 6Am, stop consuming at 8PM the previous evening.If You blaze before work .there really isn t any advice You will listen too anyway.

10 hours....:uhoh: Is the cutoff for myself and others I know who are doing the daily work grind and then home to pastures green.

Being responsible, Put work first, pay you're rent yadda,yadda..be a good boy Johnny and keep your get out of jail free card.If You're a medical patient that's an entirely different scenario.

Current Oral tests are notoriously unreliable and give false positives.There are countless cases from drivers here who test positive after eating a cereal bar or are on cold remedy medication which will trigger a positive.That flu remedy could mean a world of pain for someone who has had a toke the previous evening.

Companies/law enforcement have a directive regarding policy.Youre thoughts on the subject probably won't be listened too.Whoever is dealing with Your case will be more interested in moving your case forward and concerned more with the endless reams of paperwork they have to get through.

They are working on a breathalyser which will hopefully be more reliable and available soon.

I hope our future once testing catches up with worldwide policy will be to test for the previous 2 hours or so like alcohol which will be fine by me..I choose not to drive at weekends when I consume and I leave that 10 hour gap before work.

Avoid common roadside test areas.they set up in usually the same areas daily.

Most of all don't worry about it until it happens and it may never happen:)
 
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His_Highness

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king
I expect we all want to legalize medical and recreational MJ. I have a feeling that proclaiming openly to the electorate that MJ users feel that driving under the influence of MJ is.... acceptable and may even be preferable....... would be counter productive to our cause.
 

TeeJay1952

Well-Known Member
If the Fox News guys are looking at Fuck Combustion for their facts (or visa versa) we are all fucked.
My point? Nothing is 100%. There will be times to pass on the keys. Know it. You can drink more some times vs other times. Why would this self prescribed drug be any different?
 

EverythingsHazy

Well-Known Member
In most of the US it's technically illegal to be intoxicated in a cab as well. However, it's also considered inappropriate policing in most of the US to actually charge persons taking a cab home from a bar or restaurant while drunk since this discourages responsible behavior (taking a cab rather than driving).
That's a pretty stupid law. If you aren't a nuisance to the driver, you should be allowed to be driven around intoxicated, especially with how big of a problem drunk driving is. I think it should be up to the driver whether or not he will accept an intoxicated person (for his own safety).

I expect we all want to legalize medical and recreational MJ. I have a feeling that proclaiming openly to the electorate that MJ users feel that driving under the influence of MJ is.... acceptable and may even be preferable....... would be counter productive to our cause.
I agree. A foot-in-the-door approach would likely be much more effective than going from "illegal devil's lettuce" to "let us be high not only at home, but also while driving in public". If you want to make a big change in society. you have to be incremental, and you don't start building step 5 before step 1 is complete.
 

Elbuort19

Well-Known Member
How is driving under the influence defined for cannabis? At least with alcohol there are set measurable levels but with cannabis how would it be determined? If done by urinalysis or blood test a medical user will fail those tests even if they haven't medicated that day so does that mean they are never allowed to drive? I have driven in the past and feel that I was a better driver in many ways because I was 100% focused on what I was doing but I didn't enjoy being locked into the road so I don't do it. My bro has a script for 15g a day and because of this he is incapable of getting high anymore. I personally wouldn't want to be in a vehicle with him if he wasn't medicated because that's what relieves his C-PTSD symptoms. The man has driven through hails of gun fire and IEDs and I'd willing to put his medicated driving skills up against any of the sober naysayers. Coming from a law enforcement background I feel there should be a roadside sobriety test specifically for cannabis because what we're concerned with is if the person behind the wheel is capable of operating a vehicle at or beyond a certain level. I guarantee you there are many sober drivers that would fail these test both young and old alike. There's a big difference in getting high and getting medicated which it appears many users and the general public have yet to realize and in all likely hood never will. What about driving on painkillers, antidepressants, antipsychotics, benzos, etc? The person is under the influence of a drug but in most cases when that person's body/brain has adapted to these drugs they are better drivers on them then not. Why is a medical cannabis patient any different? That last question was rhetorical. lol
 

hinglemccringleberry

Well-Known Member
It really depends on the type of city it is, for example SF is NOT a place I want to drive when I'm high. Just like Boston there's just a constant rapid stream of opportunities to fuck up, and the stakes are even higher if you're unfamiliar with the area. So in that scenario, fuck no. But if you live in a rural town that you're familiar with and its got way more cars than pedestrians/bicyclists, a little herb isn't gonna do anything, as long as you're not a total rookie.

prefer it at night on long trips (highway). know your limits for your setting.
This. I make sure not to overdo it. And when I've been sober and start falling asleep at the wheel it works better for keeping me alert than any caffeine product out there.
 
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t-dub

Vapor Sloth
Coming from a law enforcement background I feel there should be a roadside sobriety test specifically for cannabis
Thats a tough question for the reasons you have outlined above. However, states are now using DREs or drug recognition experts. These are specially trained officers that utilize a 12 step process to determine if you are under the influence of meth, cocaine, cannabis or other drugs. They say if you are high on cannabis that you can't cross your eyes. Not sure if that is true but I think I'll try it in front of a mirror and see.

12 step protocol here: http://www.decp.org/experts/12steps.htm

Article here: http://netnebraska.org/article/news...halyzer-so-how-can-police-tell-if-driver-high
 

syrupy

Authorized Buyer

t-dub

Vapor Sloth
That sounds like a pretty poor protocol if it can't tell the difference between cannabis and meth.
What I took that to mean was that the test would point in the general direction of certain types of drugs but not be a "positive" indicator like a breathalyzer or saliva or urine or blood test. Cannabis is in its own class so utilizing the protocol they can probably get a good idea if thats what is going on. Remember you don't even have to fail a test to be charged with DWI. If, in the officer's judgment, you are impaired that is all they need. Thats why .08 isn't the be all end all number and its how they charge for things like opiates or cannabis and such. Oregon's implied consent laws are even stricter.
 

OldOyler

Fire it again. I can still find the ground.
Peace all,

I learned to drive whilst high. First ten years of driving were just..."of course I am high, no need to ask".

Drove the Capital Beltway around D.C. smoking jays out the window while wearing a suit and tie...

Today, too physically busted to drive (could certainly pull off an emergency or something, and have a valid license).

Anyway, my belief is that Johnny Law does whatever Johnny Law feels like doing.

Heck, those po-po testing kits that gave like 75% false positives? Probably spec'ed out that way by Johnny Hisself...

Peace and protection to everyone.
 

lemmeadem

Well-Known Member
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-...days-after-smoking-cannabis-acquitted/7133628

I just linked this in the saliva testing thread.

Australia recently, ironically, legalized medical use of marijuana (legal only if grown by the government) for terminal patients and patients with serious epilepsy.

Talk about spitting in the face of a whole community - Queensland police, due to this incident, recently changed their policy regarding cannabis use (that you were clear after a certain period of time).

Fucking pathetic.
 

TboneToker

Well-Known Member
My experience

If I am ever "too high to drive" I will not even be thinking about driving.

With alcohol I feel like even if I am really drink I want to drive, this is the issue with alcohol, I control myself, but what I mean is alcohol makes us THINK we can DO BETTER than normal, which Cannabis doesn't make you think "I'm the shit and nothing can go wrong"

I'm not trying to change the subject, but it's true that when I am high I feel more vulnerable not less, so I am less likely to do something I wouldn't do.
 
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syrupy

Authorized Buyer
My experience

If I am ever "too high to drive" I will not even be thinking about driving.

With alcohol I feel like even if I am really drink I want to drive, this is the issue with alcohol, I control myself, but what I mean is alcohol makes us THINK we can DO BETTER than normal, which Cannabis doesn't make you think "I'm the shit and nothing can go wrong"

I'm not trying to change the subject, but it's true that when I am high I feel more vulnerable not less, so I am less likely to do something I wouldn't do.

I think the danger isn't that cannabis would make one overconfident the way alcohol does. The "vulnerability", being self-conscious while high can lead to overcompensating...driving too slowly, etc.

Also, "too high to drive" isn't something a person can always tell ahead of time. There are situations with creeper herb where one later feels higher behind the wheel than when they vaped.
 

CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
Beware of the "creeper herb" a delayed effect can surprise you.
You can always turn around and go home if you are close enough.
You can pull over and eat something, if you are able if you have an empty stomach.
I find eating something will mellow out the high for me.

There really can be too high to drive because I've been there.

Not telling anybody what to do.

Edit
Also edibles can get stronger as time goes along too.
 
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Tranquility

Well-Known Member
At a CA dispensary I go to, their enticement prize for certain things is a dab. I never get to take mine as I have to drive home after. Not going to dab and drive. It's wrong as a moral issue in the risk to others as well as dangerous to me.

Right now, my life is good...AND I get to medicate. Getting a misdemeanor arrest would change everything. Not only do you have the driving issue (License suspension, fines, jail, insurance increase, etc.), you have the ARREST issue. Driving under the influence arrests are considered moral turpitude for many licensing boards. The rest of your life changes when you get a DUI. The life changes might be overcome in time. Might.

The actual safety of driving under the influence of THC is still debatable in gross and in detail. One could, with proper stoner logic, make the case it is not dangerous. The powers that be say differently and they are the ones to decide for any reasonable person.

I believe CA, in order to deal with the potentially passing initiatives to "legalize" in the state (In quotes. Some MMR advocates do not like the proposed law for valid reasons.), are considering a 5 ng/ml "per se" limit like the states .08 limit like alcohol. It is a lot easier to convict someone of driving under the influence if you have a technical definition of impaired than if you have to prove someone is actually impaired. That is where the problem is. Most reasonably designed studies show a significant increase in divided attention impairment and other things at the .08 level. There are problems with the per se limit and how we measure the blood concentration by the use of breaths, but most accept the per se limit. THC is different as there do not seem to be significant markers of impairment on the path from 0 - 10. Sure, it is likely the person at 5 ng/ml recently smoked. As to how that affects driving is where we will still have a lot of litigation before finding the answer we might mostly accept.

Finally, someone wrote and another supported the idea that it is "illegal" to be a passenger and intoxicated. One cannot be driving unless one is driving. Some states use a dominion and control standard and it is conceivable a vehicle being driven by another in states with that standard to charge a passenger for DUI. I find it unlikely to be successful. I find it unlikely you will get a jury full of real people who will think that getting driven home while under the influence should be a crime--even if a nutjob prosecutor claims it is such. Theoretically (When one weaves through case law in my state.), one can be driving under the influence if the vehicle is in the driveway, the person is in his house having some beers and the keys are in his control. Try to sell it to a jury though.

The passengers that are arrested are usually because they are intoxicated and in a public place--not for DUI. Generally, they are so impaired to the point they are unable to care for the safety of themselves or others in a public place. There there is no per se limit. There is only the testimony of the officer that explains why he felt you were to that intoxicated standard and why he believed it was through drugs or alcohol.
 

Krazy

Well-Known Member
I go through ~10 grams per day.
Just came over from the micro dosing thread, lol. Im currently @ <1g/week average.

And that is a big problem with how medical use is being treated. There is NOT a clear cut measurement where you do/don't get medical benefit. There is NOT a clear cut amount where you are/aren't impaired.

In addition even if we talk non medical usage the effects and tolerances are vastly different per individual. I have a freaky "still entirely functional" level. I know people that a single mild puff on a generic J will be too wrecked to remember the dogs name.
 

killick

But I like it!
@Krazy I understand totally. Back when I was swapping prescription meds for herbal ones it was pretty easy to tell when not to drive. Now it's more of varying levels of pain - more pain=more herb, mainly in concentrate and edible form, although I just realized that I don't drive using concentrates, which is probably for the best.
 
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