Divine Tribe atty's

[capcoho]

Picked up the white one from Fasttech. Very hard hitting beast. So much better then the glass globe with silica wick. No comparison really.

Also very stealthy just looks like an ecig while out and about.

 

[OF]

You mean 166 degrees? (not 66). So, almost the same increases. I placed the probe directly on the donut, roughly in the same place for each run. No photo since it was a 2 handed operation. As far as the averages, petty close to the invader mini temp settings. 200 was actually 255, 300 was 338 and 400 measured 402. Maybe I just confused you more @OF.

Yes, indeed I did, and the span for 300 should be 153......I just noticed that looking at the numbers again. Makes even less sense to me now..... Why do the max temperatures go up faster than the average

Where/how is the sensor attached?

OF

 

[Nube Scrutator]

Where/how is the sensor attached?

OF

I just held the sensor probe directly on the surface of the donut, trying to place it in the same place for each measurement. The donut appears to get more red right where the leads enter the ceramic so I placed the sensor between the "hot spots".

 

[OF]

So what do I think this means? I know that the mod's temp control function really only measures one thing, the (changing) resistance of the load. The temperature setting/readout value is solely based on knowing what the thermal coefficient (TC) of the load is. When one sets the temp limit, one is really setting the maximum allowable resistance of the load (i.e., a resistance limit). If one knows the TC of the load, then one can calculate what the temperature is, and then one could expect that the temperature readout on the mod would be reasonably accurate. But not knowing the real temperature is not very important to my enjoying the use of the DT atty. That said, if the TC of the DT atty is linear in the temp range we care about, then entering the correct TC will allow the temp readout to be fairly accurate. With the VTC-Mini we've been talking about, one can enter a custom TC (three, actually) besides the fixed (Ni200, Ti, SS, etc) ones.

This leads me to ask you how long you think it will take you to figure out the correct TC for our atty's?

So the short answer is, I don't know when. It's bugging me now, if you or someone else doesn't beat me to it I expect it to work to the top of the list pretty quick.

OF

OK, this became one of those 'can't get it out of your head' thoughts. After falling asleep thinking about it and waking up still on the topic something had to give. Like I said, I had to dig all the Thermocouple gear out anyway for another project.......

It wasn't at all hard to get a start on it. I went through my new 2.5 carts and found one where the doughnut isn't all the way down on one side, it's cocked in the bottom of the bowl enough to get the bead of my smallest T/C in under it, pressed up against the bottom of the doughnut without touching the bottom. Based on it's response to heating (rapid rise, fairly clear plateau, slower decay of indication) I'm pretty confident I have a solid reading going on.


Based on this I think we're not so far off, the heater might well be Ni based and close to the default. I was running my normal 12.5 Watts power limit, 330F temperature limit using the Ni setting I find a peak reading of about 385F! With no concentrate to melt (and liquid to carry heat away by conduction) the doughnut heats very fast. It's in temperature limit in a second or two, the T/C temperature takes a couple of 10 second cycles to be stable (the power delivered 'dances' as it jumps in and out of temperature limit).

385F seems a bit low, but not very much at all based on performance (making vapor), it could well be correct. I tried moving the contact a bit and got the same results, always a good sign.

However, this is not really a scientific measure, at least not yet. We need a confirmation of the instrumentation (are we making good contact and getting accurate, reliable data?). Toward this I've ordered a 'temperature detecting crayon' as is widely used in heat treating metals and similar stuff. You rub a bit on, it melts and fuses into a 'paint like mass' if you reach the magic temperature. I ordered 392F, accurate to 1% (four degrees F). When it gets here I'll use a tiny dot of it (or two) on the top to confirm the accuracy at that temperature:
http://www.nissenmarkers.com/product-category/product/temperature-indicating-sticks/

Right now I'd say the default Ni setting is close (whatever it is, the maker says '600-700'?), a few less PPM (about 55/330 or about 17%?). I might try to fish it out starting at say 540 PPM, but will want to confirm with the temperature stick standard.

FWIW, my attempts to measure with a Pyrometer ('IR thermometer') were pretty lame. Somewhere I've got a spot reader of that type, it focuses on a .1 inch circle half an inch or so out, used to find hot components on circuit boards. I'm not sure the two lasers that cross in front to shot the spot of interest will fit into the mouth.....and I've got to find it to find out. Even then it's reading is also suspect, the crayon is key here I think.

And so it goes......

OF

Edit: So, after some harmless poking around I'm not convinced it's using a number that high for Ni, perhaps this is why I couldn't make sense of it before? When the dust settles I want to go back and see if it makes more sense.....

Anyway, my current 'best seat of pants' match is a TC number of 225 (PPM), currently M1 on my unit. When I dial up 390F (about what I think it is) with an oil filled 2.5 I get the same sort of performance as that same cart gives on the Ni setting at 330F (which we know has to be low). I got goofed up for a bit until I realized that the clean cart is higher resistance than the oil filled one. That's all straight, at least for now.

Haywood, if you're still with me (and anyone else who has so little to do as to take a big interest in this good stuff) you might try that: Set the TC number to 225 PPM and dial up 390F at about 12 Watts? My guess is the same numbers will work the same on other similar models.

BTW, using this Vic Mini I think I've stumbled onto a keen feature. To call up the menu to set custom TCs you hold the fire and right buttons down for five seconds or so when the unit is off. That's 'press 5 times to put it to sleep' off, not standby (with just the screen blanked). Not very intuitive, but I guess they were running out of options? Anyway, pressing the fire and LEFT button reads the battery voltage! To two decimals, no less. "Battery 3.77 V" for instance.

I'm really enjoying the Vic Mini, thanks again for the recommendation.

OF

 

[OF]

Anyway, my current 'best seat of pants' match is a TC number of 225 (PPM), currently M1 on my unit. When I dial up 390F (about what I think it is) with an oil filled 2.5 I get the same sort of performance as that same cart gives on the Ni setting at 330F (which we know has to be low). I got goofed up for a bit until I realized that the clean cart is higher resistance than the oil filled one. That's all straight, at least for now.

OF

OK, a couple quick updates. First a minor setback with the temperature crayon order, Airgas sent me an email saying there was a minimum order size of 10 pieces. Their web page says otherwise, and took an order for one, calculating postage and all. They wanted to increase the order over $100..... So now a 400F crayon is on it's way with UPS (at twice the cost).

I also realized last night I was working too hard trying to get a performance match. As Haywood points out the TC idea works on resistance change, and this mod shows the resistance..... By noting that 330F on Ni scale reads 1.06 Ohms when working correctly, all I did was refine the TCR number until I got that same resistance with 390F called for. Turns out to be 235 give or take a few. Once the calibration crayon gets here I can verify that the indicated temperature is accurate (might need to tweak the TCR number a bit, but it should be easy enough.

Anyway, right now my best guess for the correct TCR value for the DC doughnuts is 235, and I think it's pretty close. Those mods that allow for custom values should work the same, otherwise the default values for Ni based heaters seem to be way off (the reason we have to dial in 'too low' temperatures in TC mode).

OF

 

[Haywood]

Haywood, if you're still with me (and anyone else who has so little to do as to take a big interest in this good stuff) you might try that: Set the TC number to 225 PPM and dial up 390F at about 12 Watts? My guess is the same numbers will work the same on other similar models.

BTW, using this Vic Mini I think I've stumbled onto a keen feature. To call up the menu to set custom TCs you hold the fire and right buttons down for five seconds or so when the unit is off. That's 'press 5 times to put it to sleep' off, not standby (with just the screen blanked). Not very intuitive, but I guess they were running out of options? Anyway, pressing the fire and LEFT button reads the battery voltage! To two decimals, no less. "Battery 3.77 V" for instance.

I'm really enjoying the Vic Mini, thanks again for the recommendation.

OF

I'm about to travel to your coast tomorrow, and won't have any time to play with the DV atty until i get back home in about a week. I also haven't found the time to play with the black fasttech version of the DV atty to see if the hole-less heater disk is better, worse, or not significantly different.

I really appreciate your time (and expense) figuring this out, though as I said originally, it really doesn't matter what the temp readout is as long as you find a resistance value that does what you want and makes you happy. I found 1.0Ω-1.2Ω is the range that I like, and apparently so have you.

I knew about the button combo for bringing up the custom TC settings, having read about it on the Joyetech web site somewhere, probably on the same page I downloaded the firmware updates. Interestingly enough (?), I also knew about the fire + Left-button bringing up the battery voltage (but only when the unit is powered down). I discovered this a while back on my iSticks, where it does exactly the same thing. (Makes you wonder if the firmware was developed by the same team). Those of you trying this at home, note that you have to hold down the two buttons for a while, maybe 5 seconds, before the reading appears on the display. You can also read the battery voltage with the VTC-Mini without turning it off, by cycling from temp control mode to bypass mode and just reading it. Which way is less button presses is left to the readers to figure out...

Here are a couple of "secret" button combo's for the VTC-Mini that you may not know: With the unit powered off, press the fire button 10 times (ignoring the display coming on at the fifth press) and then let go. The display should blank and show you the current chip temperature. With the unit powered off, press the fire button 20 times (ignoring the display coming on at the fifth press) and then let go. The display should blank and show you the current firmware version.

Edit: Missed one of your comments on my first reply. When I first got the VTC-Mini and loaded firmware 3.0, I programmed the three "M" settings. I set M1 to the number recommended by Joyetech for Ni200 TC, M2 to the one for Ti, and M3 to one of the SS TCs. When I tried the M1 setting (Ni200 "equivalent"), I got significantly different results (resistance reading when the limiter kicks in) from using the built in Ni200 setting. I didn't have time to investigate further, but I see that you're finding a similar discrepancy. One thing to also take into account is that the built in Ni200 curve may not be a single straight line (which the user entered "M" values are), but may be a number of defined "points" along a squiggly TCR curve that's anything but a straight line. I don't know if this is the case or not, but if you start seeing confusing "errors" coming and going at different temperature settings, this might be something to consider. Still, within the limited temp range we're all looking for, I doubt the TC is significantly non-linear. btw, the evolv DNA200 uses a table, not a single value. For a really good time (?), check out the manufacturers guide that evolv publishes that specifies the calibration procedure for atty's, wires, and the mod's internal resistance itself. You may find a smile on your face when you read the part about which type oil to use when calibrating a given coil/metal. Note that they recommend you immerse the test item into a bath of oil, and heat the oil, NOT the coil, when calibrating...

 

[Steven]

To all the evic mini users

I just got the wismec presa tc 75w. Is basically the cousin of the evic mini (same chip) . The power button has been the death of all my mods so I wanted a beefy power button. I was really tempted to get the evic mini because of all the suggestions but, the wismec power button won me over

My question is what are your preferred settings on the evic mini for the 2.5 donuts. Temp, Wattage, and resistance is very much appreciated. I know everyone will be a bit different but I would just like to know the ballpark. I just got it just now and am getting good hits at 12w 350F at 0.73 ohms. My invader mini settings of 11.5w, 300F,and 0.73 ohms gave me a very very light wispy hit. Gonna experiment more throughout the day

 

[arrr]

@Haywood can you post a link to the fasttech Atty I would like to check it out but couldn't find it.

 

[fernand]

I been 'way and see you guys are cookin' here! @OF Did you try just using an IR gun and sticking the atty in the mouth? Mine is a simple unit like they use for heating/cooling and the laser of course shoots high, inappropriate for short range. But I can usually get some usable readings just sticking the object into the orifice and moving it around. That was after my grand master flash idiocy of sticking a thermocouple right into a Ti coil, which wouldn't been so intense if I hadn't shorted the coil to the body with the thermocouple itself .

But all these mods aren't even measuring resistance, let alone temp, aren't they just deriving current from measuring the voltage drop across a small series resistance feeding the atty? I'm using the KangXin VFmini which uses the same chip apparently as the Invader Mini.

@Steven That Wismec looks elegant. I haven't tried the DT (@Haywood yes pls tell us the FastTech locale), but with Titanium coils I set the Watts to 12 and the Temp to 330. That seems to produce a temp between 280 and 400 on different areas of the coil, that's another issue, the mod can't "see" different areas of a heater, and how uniform is it?

Wow, this one's a cutie!

http://www.gearbest.com/temperature-control-mods/pp_308914.html

 

[OF]

@OF Did you try just using an IR gun and sticking the atty in the mouth?

But all these mods aren't even measuring resistance, let alone temp, aren't they just deriving current from measuring the voltage drop across a small series resistance feeding the atty?

Yes, I did. Please note in the post above:

FWIW, my attempts to measure with a Pyrometer ('IR thermometer') were pretty lame. Somewhere I've got a spot reader of that type, it focuses on a .1 inch circle half an inch or so out, used to find hot components on circuit boards. I'm not sure the two lasers that cross in front to shot the spot of interest will fit into the mouth.....and I've got to find it to find out. Even then it's reading is also suspect, the crayon is key here I think.

And so it goes......

OF

Pyrometers are just light meters with sensitivity to IR calibrated in degrees based on an "Emissivity" factor (how bright something glows WRT it's temperature, it varies a LOT for some materials. Like a camera light meter it can be easily fooled by 'hot spots'. Some, like my fancy spot meter one, allow for custom values for Emissivity, the default is generally something like .95 (95% of what the ideal 'black body' would emit at that temperature). Even if I could get a stable, repeatable reading (which I too couldn't) without that number (emissivity) that number is suspect, that is if the actual Emissivity is say .63 it will give an answer about 2/3 of what the actual temperature is. It will say '400F' but really mean something like 600F. Here's some fun reading on the matter, including a table of common values:
http://www.raytek.com/Raytek/en-r0/IREducation/AccurateMeasurement.htm
http://www.raytek.com/raytek/en-r0/ireducation/emissivity.htm
http://www.omega.com/prodinfo/infraredthermometer.html
http://www.optotherm.com/emiss-table.htm

Actually they are measuring resistance, 'on the fly'. They're taking advantage of a principle of most metals (some alloys don't do this) where the resistance goes up slightly with temperature. For instance, for Copper this is about .3% per degree C rise. This is how, for instance, you measure the temperature rise in transformer windings. Read the resistance cold and hot, find the difference in percent (or Parts Per Million) and divide. In my current tests (neat pun, eighwhat?) the base I'm using is .74 Ohms cold but 1.06 Ohms or so at temperature. That's a large enough difference to be useful (about ten degrees F per .01 Ohm change). In practice you tell it what temperature you want and it uses the value you give it (or a default if none is offered like on the VTC Mini.....the reason I'm using it......) to calculate a 'target resistance' then heats to that value. This process, I assume, means reading both the current and voltage applied to the base, dividing to find the resistance, over and over and over. VTC, unlike some others, displays this resistance as it changes.

In other news I got my 'temperature crayon' to try, but thus far it's a bust. The top surface overshoots when dry (heats too fast (goes too hot before being throttled back). The 400F stuff melts even at 350F (estimated) instantly. I'll try later 'sneaking up on it' with much reduced power and see if I can 'get around' this, otherwise I need some heat load (say cooking oil?) in the base to slow it down? For now my estimate from the TC measurement seems close, I'm sticking by my 235 value for TCR (change of resistance with temperature constant), although I still can't make the numbers match up. I'm wondering if it's really using the traditional values. I've got to sit down with a clear head and no distractions for that one I guess.

So, yes I tried Pyrometers, no they don't seem suitable for the job from an 'aiming' POV and the answer they give in degrees would be suspect without a way to calibrate for E. And yes, some mods really do 'measure' (estimate) temperature based on accurate changes in resistance of the heater when hot.

OF

 

[Treeburner]

Got my DT Donut 2.5 with a 2.7 top, and I'm impressed! Been using a Gpen Micro G for concentrates on the go, but the donut puts my gpen to shame! Running it on my IPV D2, and found I get the best vape at 15J and 425°F. Have only just started using it so I can't comment on durability, but so far I'm very happy with it.

-Treeburner

 

[DVision44]

Just wanted to thank ya'll for suggesting and writing about your experiences with the Vtc mini. After reading through here I decided to make the purchase. So much better than my TC40!! Sugar Sap has never tasted so sweet!!

 

[Haywood]

Sorry for the delay and brief reply to those who asked; I'm swamped with work right now and not home. Here's the info on the black version with the hole-less ceramic heater:

Ceramic Dry Content / E-Solid Vaporizer - 20mm, Ceramic, Black (free shipping) - FastTech.com

https://fs.tc/p/3897500

 

[Steven]

What are the settings you guys use for the evic mini for cleaning the donut. I used to use 11.5 w at 450F on the invader mini and that got the donut brand new white again. At those settings, the donut got glowing red hot.

However, I can't get the donut to glow on the wismec presa (has same chip as evic mini). I am currently on my last donut and do not want to break my last one by experimenting. Even at 12w at 480F, the donut doesn't have a small wink of a glow and I recycled the power button for like a minute too

Help please. Right now I'm using the invader mini to clean and would really like to just use my wismec presa so I can clean it on the go if I must

 

[arrr]

Thanks let us know how it performs

 

[Steven]

Finally got my presa tc mod dialed in. This has easily become my favorite mod so far. Now that I know my desired settings, I keep the keys locked so the settings are locked in. Then to clean, I simply click the power button 3 times. And switch it to Wattage mode where the settings are already locked in for cleaning. 3 more clicks of power button and I'm back to dabbing. So convenient. No need to lock and unlock then change settings for cleaning and vaping. And most of all that power button. Best fire button I've ever used. Such a good buy for me. Kinda wierd that the settings for this is way different from my old invader mini though. Took many bowls but I'm glad I found the sweet spot. I'd recommend this mod for the dt donuts for sure

 

[fernand]

@OF, of course there's emissivity. It's adjustable on a decent IR gun.
In fact, since the true emissivity of the "target" is unknown, adjusting
the emissivity settings on the gun is a way to calibrate against say a
thermocouple. Then we're on to how accurate the thermocouple is. So
I'm not too confident about measuring how precise the TC on a little coil is.
The ceramic donuts may have the advantage of spreading the heat fast
enough to have a uniform temperature. With coils it's really difficult.

If you're saying you disagree w/ me and that these mods
are "actually measuring resistance, 'on the fly' " I'd ask u
how. Doesn't an ohm meter just derive the current flowing
into the load, from the voltage drop on a shunt, or a hall effect
device from the mag field -- and here's that chance to use
algebra today -- and use ohm's law to derive R from E and I ?

 

[OF]

If you're saying you disagree w/ me and that these mods
are "actually measuring resistance, 'on the fly' " I'd ask u
how. Doesn't an ohm meter just derive the current flowing
into the load, from the voltage drop on a shunt, or a hall effect
device from the mag field -- and here's that chance to use
algebra today -- and use ohm's law to derive R from E and I ?

Actually they are measuring resistance, 'on the fly'. They're taking advantage of a principle of most metals (some alloys don't do this) where the resistance goes up slightly with temperature. For instance, for Copper this is about .3% per degree C rise. This is how, for instance, you measure the temperature rise in transformer windings. Read the resistance cold and hot, find the difference in percent (or Parts Per Million) and divide. In my current tests (neat pun, eighwhat?) the base I'm using is .74 Ohms cold but 1.06 Ohms or so at temperature. That's a large enough difference to be useful (about ten degrees F per .01 Ohm change). In practice you tell it what temperature you want and it uses the value you give it (or a default if none is offered like on the VTC Mini.....the reason I'm using it......) to calculate a 'target resistance' then heats to that value. This process, I assume, means reading both the current and voltage applied to the base, dividing to find the resistance, over and over and over. VTC, unlike some others, displays this resistance as it changes.

You know we don't seem to be communicating well. First you asked 'have you tried a Pyrometer?' just after I said I did, then you asked 'do you think they really measure temperature changes?' right after I said I did and why???

Yes, I meant it. It's a common enough practice. Perhaps someone else can explain better? Like this fellow discussing how it's done in practice with Copper (he's Brit therefore using a strange dialect....but the electrons there are the same......they just drive on the wrong side of the street):
http://calculate-temperature-rise-copper-windings.t2gb.com/

This is a common enough technique it's been reduced to a 'calculator' many times on this old Internet like here:
http://www.endmemo.com/physics/resistt.php

The formula involved is covered here:
http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/textbook/direct-current/chpt-12/temperature-coefficient-resistance/

And a brief discussion of why it happens can be found here:
http://www.learnabout-electronics.org/Resistors/resistors_01a.php

And no, most modern Ohm meters use a constant current source expressed across the leads. The 'basic Volt meter scale' (typically .2 Volts FS) of the DMM (which can only read voltage really) is 'read' directly across the leads at the same time. Ohm's law (not Algebra) is used in this technique to automatically calculate resistance by displaying this voltage correctly scaled as a resistance. For instance the 2K range on your DMM (which reads '2K' with .2 Volts detected) is using .0001 Amps (.2/2000), .1mA. If you have more than one DMM (I definitely do as you might imagine) you can measure this by putting the current meter leads of one across the Ohm meter leads of the other. No shunts or Hall probes involved. Just constant current sources (which you change to change resistance ranges) and the basic Voltmeter function usually on it's lowest range. The current is fixed on any given range unlike with analog Ohm meters.

OF

 

[Treeburner]

What are those settings, and how long does it take to heat up? Running on my IPV D2 at 15 Joules and 385° it works well when clean, but once reclaim starts to build up it takes forever to heat.

Thanks,
Treeburner

Finally got my presa tc mod dialed in. This has easily become my favorite mod so far. Now that I know my desired settings, I keep the keys locked so the settings are locked in. Then to clean, I simply click the power button 3 times. And switch it to Wattage mode where the settings are already locked in for cleaning. 3 more clicks of power button and I'm back to dabbing. So convenient. No need to lock and unlock then change settings for cleaning and vaping. And most of all that power button. Best fire button I've ever used. Such a good buy for me. Kinda wierd that the settings for this is way different from my old invader mini though. Took many bowls but I'm glad I found the sweet spot. I'd recommend this mod for the dt donuts for sure

 

[Steven]

What are those settings, and how long does it take to heat up? Running on my IPV D2 at 15 Joules and 385° it works well when clean, but once reclaim starts to build up it takes forever to heat.

Thanks,
Treeburner

The ipv d2 has a different chip than the presa so I doubt my settings will work on your mod. As mentioned, the setting I use on my new presa is way different from what I used to use on my invader mini. I suggest u keep playing with the settings.

I clean out the reclaim very frequent, but try raising the temp if it's underperforming. But Note, try keeping the power while raising the temp first. If that doesn't work, then raise the Wattage then temp from there. Mods can perform safely on the donut at higher Temps with lower Wattage. However, too high Wattage can destroy the atty.

 

[Steven]

What are those settings, and how long does it take to heat up? Running on my IPV D2 at 15 Joules and 385° it works well when clean, but once reclaim starts to build up it takes forever to heat.

Thanks,
Treeburner

Oh to answer your questions, I'm currently using 12w at 380F with the donut reading 0.73 ohms. Sounds similar to your settings. Are joules the same as watts? Anyway, my donut heats up pretty fast. I use a glass bubbler and it gets thickly milked by 5 seconds. It's probably even possible to vape at lower Temps because at these settings, I'm getting massive clouds, even more so than I got on my old invader mini. Flavor is great, but can probably be just slightly better if I lower the temp maybe 10-20 degrees F but I'm loving the current settings. I'm shocked I'm getting rig sized clouds though. Loving it. Even when gunked with reclaim, it works just as usual.

What I did learn is not to clean the donut with too hot of settings. I was trying to learn cleaning Temps with my new presa and used 12w in Wattage mode and boy was that a mistake. At 12w the power formed my reclaim into a hard crust that hinders the donuts performance and flavor. I broke the donut trying to scrape the black crust off. So I lowered wattage to 7w, which still gets the donut glowing red, but needs time to get there. I found that a glowing donut is necessary to clean the donut but try to find the setting where it approaches glowing. Too hot and the impurities in the reclaim will burn to a hard crust under and around the donut. You basically want to find the temperature needed to heat up and lossen the viscosity of the reclaim to be dripped out without actually burning it. I use Wattage mode because the donut never glows in TC mode on my mod

 

[fernand]

@OF, I agree. I only asked if you tried placing the hot object directly in the orifice of an IR gun, because of the laser pointer alignment problem you had mentioned. You tried, ok; it worked better for me. I wasn't attacking you. I didn't realize who I was dealing with.

 

[Treeburner]

I am not getting fast enough response from the coils to heat the donut enough to milk a bubbler, it's more like a large gpen hit. It's better now that I've cleaned the donut, but nothing like a blast from the healthstone or Enail.

Think I'll try a rebuildable dripping atomizer with a titanium coil and ss mesh wick and see if that delivers what I'm looking for, but still love the donut compared to my gpen or putting wax in the Davinci Ascent.

-Treeburner

 

[OF]

I am not getting fast enough response from the coils to heat the donut enough to milk a bubbler, it's more like a large gpen hit. It's better now that I've cleaned the donut, but nothing like a blast from the healthstone or Enail.

I think that makes perfect sense, there's a built in limit to production rates. The ceramic is a filter of sorts WRT heat (nasty old Thermodynamics again.....). Something like the filter in a coffee maker? That is, there's a limited amount of heat that can transfer to the load (in this case about 12 Watts or 3 calories if you're using Metric.....). This limits us in first heating the load, then making vapor from it. A partial key is, I think, in that order. That is the smaller the load mass, the faster vapor will be available, loads larger than necessary to supply the next hit slow the action and can 'cook the oil' that's left over. I suggest minimal loads. "Load small and often".

A mod with temperature control (as opposed to 'just power control') is an advantage here, but it too can only do so much. I like my VTC Mini best for this so far.

However, we're still stuck because we can only sense the temperature in the heater itself, not the actual load. This heat will have to 'filter through' (flow by conduction) the ceramic coating causing a temperature drop, the faster that flow the bigger the drop. That means the load will always be cooler by at least a bit and as the rate of heat flow (production of vapor) goes up, so does that heat drop at the load. A nail or stone overcomes this by storing heat energy first, and at a higher temperature than we can allow with DC bases.

So, yes keep it clean (no sense in adding yet more insulation between the heater and load) and minimally loaded and use a mod that allows for both power and temperature control and you can improve the heat up time and production rate. But there are serious limits to that having to do with power levels and heat transfer that are 'baked into the pie'? With DC you have to wait and be patient for sure.

Regards.

OF

 

[Treeburner]

Thanks @OF, getting much better results after dry burning then loading smaller dabs. I've also been heating it slightly less, which is actually leading to more usable, tasty hits and less of the dry, reclaimy hits.

-Treeburner