Divine Tribe atty's
- Thread starter divinetribe
- Start date
OF
Well-Known Member
Truth be known, after playing some at 210F then shifting to 220 I inched the power up a bit at a time. I'd decided on 12.5W but noticed it'd somehow ended at 12.6. There has been some discussion of moving the power up a bit as the doughnut 'breaks in'. The results are a bit different using my original iStick TC40W. I expected that to 'go back' some with the cleaning, but I don't think it did.
Anyway, I agree, the 'sweet spot' is around those numbers with the Invader. I think the Invader is not yet ideal (I like the replaceable battery and power management, ability to use both power and temperature control at the same time) but think it performs better than my TC40W although it's mighty heavy. The quest continues......at a leisurely pace of course.
Thanks for the confirmation. I still might be crazy, but at least now I have company.......
"You lie, and I'll swear to it".
OF
OF
Well-Known Member
So, based on your recommendation I bought the VTC Mini to try out. Nice, I think. More useful than the TC40W and like the Invader you can run both power (VW) and Temperature Control (TC) at the same time. So I've set my power maximum to 12.5 Watts and the temperature (using the Ni range) to 330F (although that might change, still working on it).
It does pretty good, so we know it's way more than 330F but that's not important really, it does go into 'temperature limit' if it's low on concentrate sooner.
And yes, you can display the temperature change, I suggest you try and see? With those settings and V3 of the software the measured temperature is displayed on line 4 of the display, mine is 0.74 ohms cold. When it's hot it shows 1.06 ohms when it goes into temperature limit (it climbs in step with the display of temperature). That's a delta of.32 ohms,(1.06-.74) 43% (.32/.74*100). Normal metals are half a percent or so per degree C, give or take, so this seems at least reasonable given we don't know what alloy is being used against what's expected.
With some effort (and knowing what the real heater temperature is), we could even use a custom constant and get the display to show real temperatures, not estimates.
But yes, there's a real resistance change and you can confirm it with the gear you have.
OF
skyler544
Clockwork Murderer
Well perhaps my understanding of this is entirely wrong, but it seems that it must vary from unit to unit as well. Yesterday a friend and I were actually holding up two 2.5s with iStick TC40W batteries to our mouths and hitting them both, his and mine, which results in massive clouds but also massive coughing. Anyway, I was looking at his and set his battery to 215 and tried it. That was a huge, glorious rip, so I immediately turned mine to 215 and attempted the same thing: no vapor. Thing isn't even warming up really, enough to make the wax go runny but that's about it.
OF
Well-Known Member
I doubt there's that much difference, a few percent perhaps. I think the difference is in settings. Specifically if the base (cold) resistance is properly set and locked. The technique is pretty simple, the resistance changes with heat. Once it's changed as much as the formula says (in percent....important detail) it's time to limit power.
In my case above, once the resistance has risen 43% from cold it's at set temperature. Since it's a 'delta' (percent change) base accuracy doesn't matter really.
It's basically impossible to be able to regulate say power (measuring voltage and current) and not temperature given the right software and settings (uses the same voltage and current measurements). But, if the wrong resistance value is stored, the temperature calculations will be off. Fill your two vapes equally and watch the displays side by side, I'm sure your unit thinks it's at the right temperature, it just gets there faster? It's confused about where it is (temperature wise) since it's confused about where it started the journey. I'm sure you know people like that?
OF
skyler544
Clockwork Murderer
Informative as always @OF, much appreciated. I was thinking that it had to be related to that but wasn't really sure how; when I received my set I read in the instruction booklet for the battery that one should lock the resistance at room temperature, so I did it but have been using the thing in wattage mode regardless. My friend never did that but he also has been using his in wattage mode; yesterday was sort of an epiphany in that respect. I'll have to fiddle with the resistance lock and see what happens.
Haywood
Onward Thru the Fog
tl;dr - Yes, I agree with your observations, and my testing results agree with yours.
My two replacement atty's showed up on Weds. I burned out my original one with overenthusiastic cleaning a month or so ago (15W for way to long...). Both the new atty's do show a resistance change with temperature, which my first one didn't. (Or maybe the iStick 40W-TC I was using with the first one just wasn't as suitable for monitoring resistance changes as the VTC-Mini I'm using now is; I suspect it was the original atty though, since my ohm meters didn't show a change with temperature either. I can't re-test the original one as it's an open circuit now...).
So before I put them into service, I did some experimenting with the new, virgin, never been loaded with concentrate atty's.
The two new atty's have a cold resistance of 0.77Ω and 0.74Ω and they rise in resistance to ~1.15Ω when I feed 12.5W into them and wait for them to just start glowing red. (My atty's need 12.5W for almost 10 seconds before they just start to glow red). I don't have an IR temp meter and there's no way for me to measure what the temperature of the ceramic is, so I picked an arbitrary TC (I chose Ni200 as you did), set the power limit to 12.5W, and set the temp limit to 600°F (Max). Then I watched the ceramic disk while monitoring the resistance and noted that at 1.15Ω the disk just started to glow red. The (inaccurate) temp reading is irrelevant, though it was always below the 600°F I set, meaning that the VTC-Mini wasn't going into temp limit.
What this "experiment" told me is that since I don't want the disk to ever glow red while I'm vaping, I don't want the resistance to ever go as high as 1.15Ω. (Why I've decided I don't want the disk to ever glow red when I'm vaping it belongs in another message). So then I started lowering the temp limit while watching the resistance until I reached a temp where the limiting started when the resistance was 1.0Ω-1.1Ω. This turned out to be, wait for it, 330°F.
And so far, three days into using these settings, I haven't felt the need to change them, except when I've been outside, which has been in the 20°-30° range here in NYC. And then I just raised the temp limit to 340°F.
So what do I think this means? I know that the mod's temp control function really only measures one thing, the (changing) resistance of the load. The temperature setting/readout value is solely based on knowing what the thermal coefficient (TC) of the load is. When one sets the temp limit, one is really setting the maximum allowable resistance of the load (i.e., a resistance limit). If one knows the TC of the load, then one can calculate what the temperature is, and then one could expect that the temperature readout on the mod would be reasonably accurate. But not knowing the real temperature is not very important to my enjoying the use of the DT atty. That said, if the TC of the DT atty is linear in the temp range we care about, then entering the correct TC will allow the temp readout to be fairly accurate. With the VTC-Mini we've been talking about, one can enter a custom TC (three, actually) besides the fixed (Ni200, Ti, SS, etc) ones.
This leads me to ask you how long you think it will take you to figure out the correct TC for our atty's?
skyler544
Clockwork Murderer
@divinetribe sweet new logo on the website! I would be interested in stickers; anyone else?
skyler544
Clockwork Murderer
I'm picturing the logo and "ineedhemp.com" on the stickers so we can stickerbomb restrooms at venues and street lamps and car bumpers and such; then maybe bigger stickers with just the logo for a skateboard or laptop. I've used a website called StickerYou for custom stickers at $9.99 for a sheet of 20, each sheet costs less the more sheets you order. I'm sure there are probably other, cheaper ways out there too, but it would be great to have more ways to pass on the word about these atomizers.
Steven
Well-Known Member
I've seen that mod. It's pretty cute haha. But I'm more interested in the ceramic Plate. How did that perform compared to the donut in terms of vapor production, splatter, and efficiency. I been eyeing those for a while.
kernal6500
Well-Known Member
me too please share!
DOES the thing hit? the airflow looks like its not hitting the coil? hows the vapor production? we are all interested..Some DT pron from today's deliveries...
For those formal occassions:
(40W, NO TC, 1300mAh, tiny oled display on top, pass-thru charging; no match for the E-Vic Mini though)
Note no hole in the center of the heating disk.
(From FastTech, I haven't used it yet)
Would someone be kind enough to tell me the best Mod to buy to go with the 2.7? I was told the Eleaf 40w was a good option by Divine Tribe...but something is telling me that the Eleaf would disappoint me. Like I said, I know nothing about Mods. I have a Source Orb for my portable needs. So I would obviously like an upgrade from that, and would like the best Mod to go with the V2.7. I would be using it for Rosin, wax, or shatter. Any advice is appreciated, I have read a few good things on here about the VTC mini? I don't mind paying extra for the best Combo. Thanks a lot!
Nube Scrutator
Cloud Searcher...
Works great, about the same as your v2.7s.
Thank you for your honest opinions! I have another question...does anyone here use the bubbler attatchment? If so, how do you like it? I think that my gut is telling me to go with the VTC mini. I want an upgrade from the Source Orb, who has a "terra" ceramic disc. Any other advice? I know zero about Mods, just what I read here. Thanks again!
OF
Well-Known Member
tl;dr - Yes, I agree with your observations, and my testing results agree with yours.
That said, if the TC of the DT atty is linear in the temp range we care about, then entering the correct TC will allow the temp readout to be fairly accurate. With the VTC-Mini we've been talking about, one can enter a custom TC (three, actually) besides the fixed (Ni200, Ti, SS, etc) ones.
This leads me to ask you how long you think it will take you to figure out the correct TC for our atty's?
Thanks for the confirmation. I got there basically the same way. Started at 12 Watts and raised the temperature up until hitting the temperature limit was giving good (but cool) vapor.
I agree, a custom number should get the display reading in real degrees F (give or take), the rub is knowing what that temperature is? That number, they claim, is in ppm (Parts Per Million, 10,000%) per degree C. I can't make those numbers fit, but moving it up and down should calibrate us just fine....once we know the temperature.
I'm about to break down and do a couple of temperature experiments with Thermo Couples. I'm not sure if it can be done that way, but worth a try. Since power loss doesn't matter, I'm thinking of filling the cup with peanut oil??? At least up to the base of the doughnut.
If that fails (as I think it might) next step is 'tempilac' a color changing series of paints that metals guys use for heat treating. A couple of drops on the doughnut and you should be able to read the peak temperature reached (say 400F) as you monitor the temperature displayed? A little 'ratio math' should solve the puzzle for all?
http://www.tempil.com/tempilaq-indicating-liquids/
So the short answer is, I don't know when. It's bugging me now, if you or someone else doesn't beat me to it I expect it to work to the top of the list pretty quick.
Me too, and likewise. Go with the VTC of the two. Removable battery, ability to set power limit down (rather than hammer it at 40 Watts) while in TC mode. Solid unit. Good recommendation even if Haywood came up with it.....
Yes, I kind of like it but it bothers me that the Mod and the Bubbler are at an angle. One or the other has to be held tipped, they can't both be upright. Not sure why it's not 180 degrees, but it's not. I also like smaller bubblers designed for normal vape pens with a short piece of silicone tube to link the two like this one I was testing with a new vape:
That one works OK, but it's kinda tiny when you get honking on the DT. I found this one works better (ignore it being on the ESV, another neat vape BTW):
I find the larger of the two about as effective as a small bubbler and the factory WPA, but a lot easier to use.
OF
Nube Scrutator
Cloud Searcher...
OF
Well-Known Member
Thanks, I recall that post but the readings made no sense to me at the time, still don't? You'd think the change from 200 to 300 would have the same sort of increase as the one from 300 to 400? The first step the 'top reading' went up 66 degrees (seems reasonable?) but the second went up 129? Twice as many degrees? And the 'average' went down in step size from 83 to 62 degrees? While the 'span' on 200 readings was 70, it was down to 53 at 300F but then back up to 319 for 400? Something I'm missing perhaps. How/where is the probe attached, it's not visible in the photos?
TIA
OF
Nube Scrutator
Cloud Searcher...
You mean 166 degrees? (not 66). So, almost the same increases. I placed the probe directly on the donut, roughly in the same place for each run. No photo since it was a 2 handed operation. As far as the averages, petty close to the invader mini temp settings. 200 was actually 255, 300 was 338 and 400 measured 402. Maybe I just confused you more @OF.