Dabbing shatter VS Vaporizing herbs

[CanadianFlowers]

My friends just made the switch to dabbing honey oil (shatter - phyto extractions) full time when I told him countless times to invest in a quality vape, in my theory vaping is like creating a dab basically by using heat to boil the actives? I know shatter is concentrated but you know what i mean I own a few vapes but he only thinks the volcano is the bees knees (tried all of my pieces,SSV,EVO,MIGHTY,VOLCANO)

Personally every time I dab I find the high 'unique' in its own way but never to the extent of actually having a full sesh with a quality vaporizer. Ive high temp'd dabs and at low temps, even use my vapeXNailes from time to time, why is it I find the vapor to be a more pleasant experience? I guess it would have to be the coughing (I cough like crazy with shatter) I cough like crazy with vapes too but it doesn't 'linger' around in my lungs like shatter which sometimes feels painful, I know I know take smaller dabs, it just wont work lol need them big hits! But I digress, which do you prefer? The high from Vaporizing HERBS vs vape/dabbing SHATTER? I want to know your guys opinion! (Sorry if its been asked before)

Love the forum, read it everyday, you guys are awesome

And yes I'm smoking quality herbs
Currently vaping some super silver haze in the volcano c:

 

[Hippie Dickie]

does your friend make his own honey oil? if not, know your chemist. i have a friend who uses a pen with some type of oil which i have used several times. not no more ... it bothers my lungs far more than many sessions on my Bud Toaster. i wonder if the "chemist" added PG or VG to enhance the cloud output. i had a similar response from an e-cig friend who snuck in a few hits before gf banished him from the house.

i think nothing compares to that first hit of quality herb, when i see it fill the tube and it rolls into my mouth like a syrup. sublime. why don't dab devices have temperature control? - it ain't that hard to do.

 

[CanadianFlowers]

My buddy buys phyto extractions

Apparently they are a Canadian company, medical grade of course

 

[Hippie Dickie]

maybe the higher temp from the pen causes my lung response. i guess i'm too quick to blame pesticides/fungicides in the herb or bad extraction tech.

 

[invertedisdead]

A dab is conduction vaporization.

 

[herbivore21]

why don't dab devices have temperature control? - it ain't that hard to do.

Man with the greatest of respect, you seem to be speaking beyond your knowledge here. E-nails and many pens have had temp control for a long time now. Some of the newer controllers coming out at present offer greater temp control than ever before!

i think nothing compares to that first hit of quality herb, when i see it fill the tube and it rolls into my mouth like a syrup. sublime.

The first hit of quality herb is nice in a good vape. However, take that resin off of the herb via well made rosin, bubble or dry sift tek and you'll have something incomparably better. I'd be beyond bummed if I were stuck with only herb and didn't have the concentrates that I make. Herb vapor is unbelievably harsh on my throat compared to the concentrates that I use (no solvents, whole glands).

Of course, the concentrates that I generally use comprise whole, unruptured resin glands mechanically isolated from the herb, which is different from shatter. Much of the shatter out there to my tastebuds is missing flavor compared to the herb that it was made from. Everyone here knows that I can make shatter as well as anybody else. I've made all of the above from the same flower, and vaped the flower for comparison for many years now.

Not many of you here will have had the opportunity to do this kind of apples and apples comparison between all extracts and herb so I understand why you guys may have reached conclusions like what I quoted you saying above. With my experience, I can confidently say that even the very first hit of the very best herb in the tastiest vaporizer does not come remotely near the flavor of a dab of full melt from the very same herb.

Well made, first press rosin from the same herb also tastes much better IME.

On the harshness topic that you mention, I should point out that the hardest, dewaxed shatters are actually much smoother on the throat to dab than vaping the very finest of flowers from the best vape. They do not have all of the flavor though, unless made by an incredibly skilled extract artist. Remember, we have refined solvent extracts from cannabis (no added terps, no shenanigans) that can exceed 20% total terpenes, with flavor that from what I hear is only ever matched or surpassed by full melt.

i wonder if the "chemist" added PG or VG to enhance the cloud output. i had a similar response from an e-cig friend who snuck in a few hits before gf banished him from the house.

This is definitely a problem in cases where these additives are used. That shit makes me wheeze! However the OP is clearly talking about typical solvent extracted shatter, not anything liquid and hence not likely to have these solvents added.

I really don't wanna seem like I'm disagreeing with all of what you've said though. The following that you said hits the nail on the head.

does your friend make his own honey oil? if not, know your chemist.

This is the golden rule. Either DIY (and do it well!), be unusually familiar with the methods of the people who grow (this goes for you herb users too, remember, bad growing methods can bring about some of the worst dangers in herb) and extract your meds or get material that is tested by qualified laboratories.

I'm not just talking about testing for THC and CBD levels either - this is the least relevant information that we can get from testing for cannabis/extract safety purposes. We need test results for pesticides, microbials, residual solvents (for relevant extracts), fungus etc. Cannabinoid and terp tests are helpful too (the latter can help you be sure nobody is adding in cheap non-cannabis derived terps in unreasonable quantities).

I have learned that concentrates can be unequivocally tastier, safer and more enjoyable than the herb that they are made from. However, badly made concentrates can all too often be worse tasting, less safe and much less enjoyable than vaping on good herb.

I encourage everybody to learn how to identify the best herb and extracts. Whatever you choose to vape on, play it safe

To the OP @CanadianFlowers does your friend use a high quality enail to consume their shatter? I find that non TC pens and torch + nail setups can be incredibly inconsistent like you say, but a high end SiC or Sapphire e-nail provides flavor and consistency of experience that cannot be had from flower IME. That material does not look bad to me. Vacuum oven purged BHO from a nug run like that using purified/distilled butane like the label says should be quite safe, even if depending on the purge technique it may lack some flavor of the original resin as it was on the herb. With that said, are there analytical test results for that shatter? Any residual solvent, pesticide or microbial tests?

 

[CanadianFlowers]

Thank you guys for your feedback! I love reading other peoples opinions I really appreciate it!

 

[Hippie Dickie]

E-nails and many pens have had temp control for a long time now.

i know the pen i tried has no temperature control - must "feather" the button to prevent over heating ... and i read posts where the temp of the dab nail drops 50°F with a hit.

We need test results for pesticides, microbials, residual solvents (for relevant extracts), fungus etc.

i would just kill my grower.

badly made concentrates can all too often be worse tasting

i'm waiting for a better technology. i'm not a chemist (or a plumber) so it's going to be herb for quite a while for me.

 

[invertedisdead]

i'm waiting for a better technology. i'm not a chemist (or a plumber) so it's going to be herb for quite a while for me.

The tech is already here, with your electrical knowledge you could build a wicked rosin press in a day.

I've been pressing 3 days in a row now and my conclusion is I don't know why anyone would even want to hit flower when you can extract this simply.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

The tech is already here, with your electrical knowledge you could build a wicked rosin press in a day.

i appreciate your vote of confidence, but from what i've seen of the press tech, not something i want to invest the time into - it just doesn't appeal to go through that thrash for a hit - herb is good enough for me ... "in a day" and starting up a new project is not that simple.

 

[invertedisdead]

but from what i've seen of the press tech, not something i want to invest the time into - it just doesn't appeal

To each his own!

 

[CanadianFlowers]

To each his own!

Woah!!! how much herb did you use for that?

That looks scrumptious

 

[invertedisdead]

Not my image, just an example

 

[shredder]

To each his own!

I'm fairly new to using a rosin press, and a enail type vape to consume rosin, and I'm clearly sold as well.

I used to judge nails by rough ass torch hits off cheap nails. I was put off from the whole deal, but then I added a vice to my hair straightener and got better yields. (soon came a press) And after reading tons here I invested in a dnail with a SIC dish and a pid controler from thick ass glass.

Now my old vapes sit unused, my lungs feel better, I spend less time medicating than I have in years. I'm not a fortune teller, but I'm not going back. If vapes were my business, I'd get on the band wagon fast. If I made herbol vapes exclusively I'd be worried.

I do see room for improvement in concentrate tech and use tho. Namely concentrate portables, pens and such. IMHO theyre not quite there yet, but this game is changing fast, and I doubt great tasting pens will take long to come to market.

 

[CheeseSandwich]

I'm not a very heavy concentrate user but I really don't think Phyto is a proper example of "good" concentrates. I've had Phyto probably like 8-10 times and IME it's pretty mediocre and sometimes under purged.

 

[CanadianFlowers]

I'm not a very heavy concentrate user but I really don't think Phyto is a proper example of "good" concentrates. I've had Phyto probably like 8-10 times and IME it's pretty mediocre and sometimes under purged.

I have only smoked this twice! What makes this brand mediocre i may ask? It seemed excellent when i had some,than again i don't see much concentrates around my local area, most stuff is ordered from BC.

I try to stay away from alcohol/BHO shatter all together.
Always wanted to try full melt hash, looks good how does full melt hash compare to chemically extracted resins?(BHO/ISO/Grain alcohol) also the rosin a hair straightener makes is right fiiiiiine, got about two good dabs off a gram I squashed earlier .3 nugs at a time, 20 seconds each

 

[CheeseSandwich]

I have only smoked this twice! What makes this brand mediocre i may ask? It seemed excellent when i had some,than again i don't see much concentrates around my local area, most stuff is ordered from BC.

I try to stay away from alcohol/BHO shatter all together.
Always wanted to try full melt hash, looks good how does full melt hash compare to chemically extracted resins?(BHO/ISO/Grain alcohol) also the rosin a hair straightener makes is right fiiiiiine, got about two good dabs off a gram I squashed earlier .3 nugs at a time, 20 seconds each

I just don't find it very potent really, sometimes taste is kinda bad and there are better extracts for sale out there. I don't really buy concentrates very much either, mostly diy and not very often. I'm just thinking commercially sold shatter should NOT have any residual solvent taste?? If I can get rid of the taste in my own diy butane/alcohol extractions with a simple hot water bath or heating pad. They should absolutely be able to do so.

I'm definitely more of a flower type of person, I just like the ritual involved. As well I can't keep my tolerance even close to manageable dabbing all day.

edit: I agree that Rosin is very tasty.

 

[invertedisdead]

I'm fairly new to using a rosin press, and a enail type vape to consume rosin, and I'm clearly sold as well.

I used to judge nails by rough ass torch hits off cheap nails. I was put off from the whole deal, but then I added a vice to my hair straightener and got better yields. (soon came a press) And after reading tons here I invested in a dnail with a SIC dish and a pid controler from thick ass glass.

Now my old vapes sit unused, my lungs feel better, I spend less time medicating than I have in years. I'm not a fortune teller, but I'm not going back. If vapes were my business, I'd get on the band wagon fast. If I made herbol vapes exclusively I'd be worried.

I do see room for improvement in concentrate tech and use tho. Namely concentrate portables, pens and such. IMHO theyre not quite there yet, but this game is changing fast, and I doubt great tasting pens will take long to come to market.

Pens have changed so much in the last year, by next year I guarantee the options will be incredible. The technology in my pen today is worlds apart from what I used just one year ago. When temp controlled ceramic dishes come it's over!

@herbivore21 id actually like to see SiC dishes for pens!

 

[shredder]

I just don't find it very potent really, sometimes taste is kinda bad and there are better extracts for sale out there. I don't really buy concentrates very much either, mostly diy and not very often. I'm just thinking commercially sold shatter should NOT have any residual solvent taste?? If I can get rid of the taste in my own diy butane/alcohol extractions with a simple hot water bath or heating pad. They should absolutely be able to do so.

I'm definitely more of a flower type of person, I just like the ritual involved. As well I can't keep my tolerance even close to manageable dabbing all day.

edit: I agree that Rosin is very tasty.

Your right that doing dabs all day will blow your tolerance. But you really don't have to use dabs often or do big dabs. You can still micro dose and dab.

I think it helps to have an enail tho. I really haven't changed my medication levels, for lack of a better term, since I've been using mostly dabs.

While I haven't checked how much rosin I use daily or weekly, I doubt it's much more, if any than the herbol equivalent.

 

[herbivore21]

The proper fire full melt bubble hash melts enough to dab and will not taste bad later in the dab. If it tastes bad later in the dab on a sapphire/sic enail at low temps, you've got too much contaminant and not enough resin. That is not full melt.

@CheeseSandwich if you have only dabbed retail 'full melt', what you say above seems to indicate that you've been sold sub-par 'full melt'. I make my own full melt as well as all other kinds of extract. In my all-things-being-equal scenario where I can make the highest quality solvent, rosin and hash extractions from the same high quality flower and compare to vaping the flower too, I can very confidently say the following:

Proper 5-6 star full melt from a nug run or well stored sugar leaf will ALWAYS taste better than rosin from the same flower, and gives a psychadelic effect that cannot be had from most other solvent based and solventless extracts.

I'm talking about stuff like this:

That is some of the bubble hash I'm dabbin' on. I made it myself - I do not dab anything that I didn't make personally. 73-120u collection of my last 5 washes (this is not the first, nor the best of what came out of that flower, not by a long shot!) of top quality, mature resin encrusted flower.

This full melt has been stored in sub-zero conditions with ultra-low humidity since it was made a year ago. The material is actually in the exact same form as it was collected from the bubble bags. No additional sieving or microplaning to dry, these are whole, untouched resin glands.

This stuff makes rosin from the same flower taste and feel boring. I have access to whatever extracts that I want from these flowers.

If the rosin or solvent extracts from the same flower were better, I'd simply make those instead - I mastered those techniques before I ever tried making full melt! It would have been easier for me to stick to those methods. I have been firmly all about the full melt making for years now. There are good reasons.

Full melt is better than any kind of solvent extract, and I'll take full melt from the same starting material over any other kind of extract including rosin, any day of the week.

I find that when I have a very high tolerance, full melt gives me more noticeable psychoactivity than other kinds of extracts. The terps influence your high more and more as you get a higher tolerance to THC. You get a downregulation of CB1 receptors which THC binds with when you have a high tolerance. This means that as you get a higher tolerance, THC will produce less psychoactivity because your body reduces the number of receptors that cause the high when THC binds with them.

I have to acknowledge that many retail 'full melts' I've heard of and seen are definitely not good quality resin in my view, and I would call them 4 or 4.5 star, not full melt. These are concentrates that would be wonderful to vaporize, but are not dabbable. Bad handling practices are a problem with industrial hashmakers in some cases too, I've seen some processing spaces for commercial retail that make me cringe.

For everybody who only buys retail concentrates - as a processor, I need to point out that you guys are not always going to have access to the best of all kinds of extracts. For example, the most fire full melt using the most well known methods of bubble hash making usually has negligible yields - barely enough to give to the extract artist's friends let alone to retail. The 6 star collection as such often stays in the hashmaker's headstash or with their friends and maybe dispensary workers if it gets that far. What you find available for retail on the shelf in these cases are the lesser quality collections. This will not give you an accurate impression of the comparison between full melt and other extracts.

For all such general comparisons between the outcomes of different extraction methods, you need to be sure that you're comparing extracts that came from the same starting material, and that were made skilfully with best practices for the given method. If you want to have the best quality full melt for such comparison, you're probably going to have to make it yourself. Remember, IME the most famous and knowledgable processors who have access to whatever they want tend to prefer full melt and variously will not always/often/ever part with their best work.

 

[CanadianFlowers]

The proper fire full melt bubble hash melts enough to dab and will not taste bad later in the dab. If it tastes bad later in the dab on a sapphire/sic enail at low temps, you've got too much contaminant and not enough resin. That is not full melt.

@CheeseSandwich if you have only dabbed retail 'full melt', what you say above seems to indicate that you've been sold sub-par 'full melt'. I make my own full melt as well as all other kinds of extract. In my all-things-being-equal scenario where I can make the highest quality solvent, rosin and hash extractions from the same high quality flower and compare to vaping the flower too, I can very confidently say the following:

Proper 5-6 star full melt from a nug run or well stored trim will ALWAYS taste better than rosin from the same flower, and gives a psychadelic effect that cannot be had from most other solvent based and solventless extracts.

I'm talking about stuff like this:

That is some of the bubble hash I'm dabbin' on. I made it myself - I do not dab anything that I didn't make personally. 73-120u collection of my last 5 washes (this is not the first, nor the best of what came out of that flower, not by a long shot!) of top quality, mature resin encrusted flower.

This full melt has been stored in sub-zero conditions with ultra-low humidity since it was made a year ago. The material is actually in the exact same form as it was collected from the bubble bags. No additional sieving or microplaning to dry, these are whole, untouched resin glands.

This stuff makes rosin from the same flower taste and feel boring. I have access to whatever extracts that I want from these flowers.

If the rosin or solvent extracts from the same flower were better, I'd simply make those instead - I mastered those techniques before I ever tried making full melt! It would have been easier for me to stick to those methods. I have been firmly all about the full melt making for years now. There are good reasons.

Full melt is better than any kind of solvent extract, and I'll take full melt from the same starting material over any other kind of extract including rosin, any day of the week.

I find that when I have a very high tolerance, full melt gives me more noticeable psychoactivity than other kinds of extracts. The terps influence your high more and more as you get a higher tolerance to THC. You get a downregulation of CB1 receptors which THC binds with when you have a high tolerance. This means that as you get a higher tolerance, THC will produce less psychoactivity because your body reduces the number of receptors that cause the high when THC binds with them.

I have to acknowledge that many retail 'full melts' I've heard of and seen are definitely not good quality resin in my view, and I would call them 4 or 4.5 star, not full melt. These are concentrates that would be wonderful to vaporize, but are not dabbable. Bad handling practices are a problem with industrial hashmakers in some cases too, I've seen some processing spaces for commercial retail that make me cringe.

For everybody who only buys retail concentrates - as a processor, I need to point out that you guys are not always going to have access to the best of all kinds of extracts. For example, the most fire full melt using the most well known methods of bubble hash making usually has negligible yields - barely enough to give to the extract artist's friends let alone to retail. The 6 star collection as such often stays in the hashmaker's headstash or with their friends and maybe dispensary workers if it gets that far. What you find available for retail on the shelf in these cases are the lesser quality collections. This will not give you an accurate impression of the comparison between full melt and other extracts.

For all such general comparisons between the outcomes of different extraction methods, you need to be sure that you're comparing extracts that came from the same starting material, and that were made skilfully with best practices for the given method. If you want to have the best quality full melt for such comparison, you're probably going to have to make it yourself. Remember, IME the most famous and knowledgable processors who have access to whatever they want tend to prefer full melt and variously will not always/often/ever part with their best work.

That was beautiful. Thank you for sharing

I made up my mind to buy the bubblebox! I know I could make one for cheaper.. but its more convenient to buy c: Been definitely wanting to try for a long time, full melt solventless hash sounds amazing

 

[vaporist4LIFE]

Oil is nice but I always have preferred flower. Has the full spectrum oil seems to lack in some ways

 

[invertedisdead]

Oil is nice but I always have preferred flower. Has the full spectrum oil seems to lack in some ways

Have you tried rosin? Seems stronger than hydrocarbon extracts to me.

 

[vaporist4LIFE]

Have you tried rosin? Seems stronger than hydrocarbon extracts to me.

Oh yeah .I'm talking in general I guess. They each have their own place imo . some time nothing beats a dab !

 

[DrewVape]

Dabs are a trend started by corporate interests.

Marlborough doesn't grow tobacco. They produce cigarettes: Buy the cheapest bids from multiple sources, use the bottom grade materia, mix it all together, extract the ingredients, reinfuse with a synthetic blend, brand market and sell it. The future of Cannabis will operate the same way. Wax pens filled with reclaim from scrap material, infused with a terp blend for branding consistency.

That said, Ive had great dabs.. Impressive work. However, dabs made from organic crops offer only a small portion of the total effects vs vaping that same flower... Putting hydroponic flowers against their dabs , and the difference is negligible,.as hydroponic is an inferior 'incomplete' product to begin with.


So if you smoke hydro, might as well be dabs. If you smoke real organic weed, dabs are like smoking reclaim vs the real deal. (sorry but hydroponic ruins the authentic experience to begin with, and drives a market of low standards, fact!)