Gear D-nail thread
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MileHighHuman
Well-Known Member
Haven't really thought much about how. I'd choose sapphire for sure and screen sounds like good idea.
Really like the DNAIL dishes and equipment simplicity, so if they could use that basic/simple mentality and put it towards creating something 100% convection then that'd be perfect.
Im sure it'd be similar to the ELEV8R, but plug-in and powered on 24/7.
If they could create some type of sapphire screen similar to 7th floors, but make it much larger, thicker, and with much more surface area to avoid reclaim then that just might be what I'm looking to find and buy.
Then for the heater head, id choose it's material to be ceramic.
Really like the DNAIL dishes and equipment simplicity, so if they could use that basic/simple mentality and put it towards creating something 100% convection then that'd be perfect.
Im sure it'd be similar to the ELEV8R, but plug-in and powered on 24/7.
If they could create some type of sapphire screen similar to 7th floors, but make it much larger, thicker, and with much more surface area to avoid reclaim then that just might be what I'm looking to find and buy.
Then for the heater head, id choose it's material to be ceramic.
Glass Symphony?
MileHighHuman
Well-Known Member
Guess i could throw one of 7th floor's ceramic disk into the bowl, but id really prefer something dedicated towards concentrates and thats capable of 900F or so. I'm assuming GS doesn't go over 600F, but thats my assumption with 900 on the controller producing results similar to 400F - 450F when using flowers with it?
Also, I'm wanting the sapphire screen (surface area) to be very thick and large. Hey, maybe the large 7th floor ceramic disc would work just fine? Haven't thought about giving it some try. But from initial thoughts id say that I'm looking for something developed thats more intended towards concentrates only / strictly.
I'm personally not a fan of those concentrate pads at all because they all absorb residual oils and taste like reclaim. I don't think a sapphire pad could be built, it would be extremely complicated to produce if it was possible, and would be very brittle/fragile, and probably uncleanable.
MileHighHuman
Well-Known Member
Your positive they cant be fully cleaned?
My sapphire dish was able to look just like new with 900F enail heat burn off. Distilled water and ISO work as well, but anyways, so you don't think quick torch cleaning would fully clean those ceramic disc? Or would they instantly crack/break?
But yeah your right about creating the ceramic type disc out of sapphire. Just from seeing how many dishes have cracked, there is no way they could manufacture sapphire with that many pores/holes. But, if they ever could figure out how to produce sapphire products that didn't crack as easily then that'd be something they need to develop. Im just tired of conduction vaporization. It aggravates my mucus / lungs too much.
Yeah I feel you, are you using rosin or solvent extracts? Was starting to notice the same side effects but I now believe it to be from the solvent process. Torch cleaning should work for the ceramic disk but not for sapphire. Ironically sapphire is the same composition as alumina ceramic, just a different structure.
MileHighHuman
Well-Known Member
Mostly rosin. Im assuming solvents does cause some of the aggravation, but I'm thinking its more due to the fats/lipids/waxes. I've found winterized / dewaxed concentrates and also pure CBD crystals and isolated terpenes don't give me as many issues (even when using conduction)
So, i do think conduction is part of the issue, but also think solvents and lipids are also contributing.
Haven't experimented yet, but I'm thinking winterized rosin with 100% convection vaporizer is what I'm going to have to choose. Yes winterizing will remove lots of those terpenes in the rosin which is unfortunate, but its not worth it when experiencing lung issues.
Also yeah i understood how sapphire was some type of ceramic, just wasn't sure the exact differences so thanks for that knowledge dude!!
Have you noticed any flavor difference between the 7th floor ceramic disc and DNAIL sapphire dish?
So, i do think conduction is part of the issue, but also think solvents and lipids are also contributing.
Haven't experimented yet, but I'm thinking winterized rosin with 100% convection vaporizer is what I'm going to have to choose. Yes winterizing will remove lots of those terpenes in the rosin which is unfortunate, but its not worth it when experiencing lung issues.
Also yeah i understood how sapphire was some type of ceramic, just wasn't sure the exact differences so thanks for that knowledge dude!!
Have you noticed any flavor difference between the 7th floor ceramic disc and DNAIL sapphire dish?
That's interesting you are curious about degradation of the residual waxes and lipids. I recently sent @biohacker a video online from an organic chemist who talks about the these waxes in concentrates being a real issue as they are not vaporizable, so they instantly thermally oxidize when touching a hot nail. Let me know if you're interested and I'll PM you a link to the video.
BTW instead of winterizing rosin, you might consider CO2 oils or distillates?
The flavor is different between alumina and sapphire as the physical properties of the material changes along with the structure. For example, the conductivity of sapphire is a lot better than alumina.
2clicker
Observer
following your conversation here. looking on the 7th floor site for their saphire screen, but dont see it. im navigating in my phone tho... can you link me...? id appreciate it
or are you referring to their porous ceramic discs?
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MileHighHuman
Well-Known Member
Please send me that link!! I've been vouching for winterizing for years but most people who don't experience any issues with the lipids don't really care about removing them. Somewhat assume this is probably due to me consuming much more than they do and my mucus / lungs are just the after math.
Unfortunately haven't had the pleasure of experiencing C02 or distillates so not sure if they avoid any of my issues, if the day ever arrives ill consume as much as possible and find out for everyone. Lol
Thats interesting how the physical structure effects the flavor. But not super surprised due to the price point difference. I've never owned the 7th floor ceramic disc, but might give it some chance here soon just to see how it compares.
Do you happen to know why sapphire is rated 9 on the hardness scale (same as alumina) but the sapphire dishes seem to break much more easily compared to the 7th floor ceramic disc. Plus like we discussed earlier, not even sure if any disc/screen could be made out of sapphire due to it being so fragile.
The DNAIL site says sapphire's specific crystal structure is the purest form of alumina. So I'm assuming this is why it taste better? Any knowledge of what the difference in the crystal structures is?
Also note, DNAIL states sapphire has "fair heat shock value" and is "heat resistant up to 3500F"
Now maybe I'm being critical, but from the reviews and experiences it seems like multiple dishes have broken due to heat shock. And I've never seen anyone crank it up to 3500F. I've seen Bubbleman crank his up to like 1100F max. The instructions even say don't go past 750F. I'd always use 900F for cleaning burn off mine, but 3500F seems bit of reach to me.
Yeah i was talking about the cheap 7th floor $5 ceramic disc.
Lot better compared to the $300 DNAIL dish. (Smh)
Sapphire is very hard, but is quite susceptible to thermal shock, which affects it differently than it's hardness. Quartz is not near as hard, but more more resistant to thermal shock. They are both durable, but excel in different operating environments. Diamonds, being 10 on the mohs scale can still chip and crack!
ensabbahnur
Hash Vacuum
As was said, hardness /= toughness
Even with my saph dish breaking, Id rate it fair for shock resistance, mainly because to my knowledge EVERY enail heater at the end of the day is PWM and is far from what can be considered a scientifically even and stable heat source, I have zero doubts in my mind if you could slowly and steadily heat sapphire in a controlled environment that it could take 3500 before it would burn, heating an amount of it to not break would be the trick, Im sure a simple shape as opposed to a dish that is under crazy geometric stresses during heating and outside cooling factors.
Id love to see something with a solid sapphire bottom and some other type of wall material so its not stressed as much but i cant see how they could attach it to anything else
I'd like to see a quartz e-nail banger with a sapphire floor.
ensabbahnur
Hash Vacuum
Exactly!!! but how?!?!
I've been thinking about it for a while. I don't know if it's as black and white as I think it is, but hypothetically a 3mm sapphire wafer could be inserted during assembly of the quartz nail. I've been thinking of just buying the wafer and trying it myself, but the only negative is it wouldn't be sealed in as if it was done during assembly. The actual sapphire is very popular in other industries and quite cheap.
Even the same concept but with SiC could be pretty sweet I think. The new Highly Educated Gavel uses an opaque quartz floor, a silicon carbide floor would be really sweet. Sapphire too if it can withstand the thermal shock. I'm thinking SiC would work even in a torched scenario, but not sure about the sapphire, might need to be reserved for enail use.
MileHighHuman
Well-Known Member
This explanation is great!! Completely comprehend. Thanks!!
Sapphire floor quartz banger would be interesting, but do either of you NOT care about convection heating?
Not only for lung benefits, but also for the flavor too.
Convection is superior for sure in the flavor department. Not as intense of medicine compared to a halo though.
I'm more interested in conduction uptemp hits to be honest. Convection dabbing is pretty simple.
MileHighHuman
Well-Known Member
What's your reason that conduction provides stronger effects?
Not arguing, just curious about what devices and temperatures your comparing and why you have concluded that answer.
Is it due to the faster vaporization / extraction speed?
Uptemping is when you place concentrate onto nail at very low temperature and you inhale while the controller slowly increases the temperature. Correct?
Convection concentrates is simple. But none use sapphire. The ELEV8R is first I've seen to use ceramic, but I've might have missed something out there? Most convection devices use cotton or stainless steel pads which work, but i'd really prefer something more along the quality of sapphire.
I'm just going on my own bioessay. I've taken hot dabs at 1000F before off the SiC halo when I had it self cleaning, got blasted to pluto. I dont think that could be achieved at convection temperatures but I could be mistaken.
EDIT: Sorry I forgot to include I would be comparing it to a convection dab through the flowerpot for example on some double weave titanium screens or a small bed of flower.
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Yes uptemp is starting from low temp, preferably from cold for maximum effect.
Convection dabs is all about hot air, all sapphire would add is more conduction, which it sounds like you are wanting to get away from.
Those pads the Elev8r uses have been out for years, you can use them in any convection vaporizer. IME convection pads taste like reclaim though.
ensabbahnur
Hash Vacuum
This explanation is great!! Completely comprehend. Thanks!!
Sapphire floor quartz banger would be interesting, but do either of you NOT care about convection heating?
Not only for lung benefits, but also for the flavor too.
Convection would be nice......but the hassle, IMO, isn't worth it. All of the dialing in of the heat across the mass of air instead of just a conduction surface makes me cringe. Most likely its because I don't see the real advantage....atleast from my experiences. Also anecdotally, my most reality smashing dabs that were not DMT were red hot bomb globs on a ti Medicali KO domeless v2.....nothing else has ever come close. The sheer simplicity plus the amount of quality vapor produced by the Halo setup is nearly mind boggling to me at times. Even as much as I prefer the flavor quality of the Ligers, the Halo is, compared to current peers...a masterpiece, and most likely a huge reason they are not pushing any innovation....they prolly don't feel they have to. I feel the best way to utilize sapphire would be like the Liger, with a large mass being the thermal intermediate, keeping the on/off PWM heating aspect of digital enail controllers, out of the equation and ultimately putting the sapphire in a more stable thermal situation......even though it would require a higher coil temp....to achieve the desired dish temp.
2clicker
Observer
i stumbled upon the dnail pdf write up of uptemping and its def interesting. and makes sense to actually vape all of the actives instead of swabbing them up or destroying them. i think lots of users swab up actives more often than they think or want to admit. when low temp dabbing.
slightly off topic... im going to adjust the settings on my mod to see if i can produce an “uptemp” dab with it. maybe set it at a low wattage preheat and set that preheat at like 3-5 seconds and then let a higher wattage kick in after that.
carry on!
Absolutely! Especially if dabbing off a torched quartz banger. I think I used to get higher from extracts before the low temp Q tip thing came into play. The temps now are just so low I really don't think complete vaporization is occurring. I q-tip my nails too because it does taste better, but realistically dabbing has become 99% about taste only. I get stronger medicating effects from flower out of my Showerhead.
A pen works great for uptemps, I run mine in TC mode and use a lower wattage so it takes longer to reach temp.