Concentrates for Noobs - Q&A

[Amnesia]

Hi, maybe this is not the better place to post about this topic but I would like to know if you prefer:

-to let the carb cap on the nail until the t° stabilized before to dab
-to set your e-nail a bit higher to compensate the cold carb cap

I always used for the first way although I'm thinking the 2nd way could be nice to start at lower temp and finish a bit higher so you can get the better taste and clouds in the same hit!

Guys, what do you think?

The temp of the carb cap shouldn't really matter much. At least from what I can figure, carb caps do 3 things:

1. Channel Airflow - because of a bunch of crazy complex fluid dynamics concepts the cap with the little hole over the dish gets air moving through the dish.

2. Reduce barometric pressure - less pressure means lower boiling point.

3. And this is the biggest one I can think of. Reflect heat back down. Keep in mind what heat actually is. Infrared light. It can absolutely be bounced. Infrared won't pass through stuff like the really narrow bands. So a lot of it gets reflected and some gets absorbed. this is why with a small low temp dab, as soon as you even start to cap the whole dab flash vaporizes. All the heat that was just blasting out the top is now being reflected in. That includes all the parts of the dish NOT touching oil so most of it.


Anyway. Main point is that unless you are dabbing at SUPER low temps (think like sub 500). There should already be more than enough heat in your nail to vaporize everything without needing to add more by heating the carb cap.

Also a good nail should only drop around 5 maybe 10 degrees (f). Normally what you see with vertical coils (16/20mm instead of a flat cool) is the carb cap comes into contact with the coil which causes the internal thermocouple to start dropping 15-20+ degrees. This actually has the opposite effect of what you might think through. The nail sees the temp change and so it starts ramping up. Which is why after the dab with the big drops you normally see the temp spike 10-20 over your set temp.

 

[DieHard]

Carb capping helps to achieve the Leidenfrost Effect. this allows dabbing at temperatures lower than those that would cause vaporization without the aid of a carb cap.

 

[PPN]

Hi, thanks for the reply, I set t° at 520 and when I put the cold (ambient t°) carb cap there is +50°F drop!....and I notice there is less vapor. When I let the t° stabilize I get more vapor...although I'll try again to dab without thinking about to heat my carbcap and I'll report, thanks!

 

[amberevil]

@PPN thats why I love the dab cap that came with my domeless.com 710 whip, I never have to take the carb cap off.

 

[Amnesia]

Hi, thanks for the reply, I set t° at 520 and when I put the cold (ambient t°) carb cap there is +50°F drop!....and I notice there is less vapor. When I let the t° stabilize I get more vapor...although I'll try again to dab without thinking about to heat my carbcap and I'll report, thanks!

If it's dropping 50 then something is most definitely not working right. Either it's a slow controller or the PID is wrong or there is something wrong with the coil.

What gear are you using?

 

[PPN]

It's a "D-Nail" from GreenLightvapes, it's similar to Auber and lot of others brands but cheaper since made in China, maybe this is explaining that....otherwise it's not a big deal to remenber to heat the carbcap!

My carbcap sit around the coil which is around the nail, only the internal top sit directly on the nail itself, the rest is in direct contact with the coil....

I tested with a cold carbcap...definitly worst for clouds but better for taste...so I tested to take off the carbcap 1mn before to dab to get a "perfect" balance between taste and clouds!

Actually I'm stuck with a moroccan kief tane extraction and I'll prefer flowers extraction!....and I was thinking to test a tane extraction from undried fresh flowers to make "live resin"....is it worth a try? pack, freeze and blast...that's all? any tips greatly appreciated!

 

[DieHard]

It's a "D-Nail" from GreenLightvapes, it's similar to Auber and lot of others brands but cheaper since made in China, maybe this is explaining that....otherwise it's not a big deal to remenber to heat the carbcap!

My carbcap sit around the coil which is around the nail, only the internal top sit directly on the nail itself, the rest is in direct contact with the coil....

I tested with a cold carbcap...definitly worst for clouds but better for taste...so I tested to take off the carbcap 1mn before to dab to get a "perfect" balance between taste and clouds!

Actually I'm stuck with a moroccan kief tane extraction and I'll prefer flowers extraction!....and I was thinking to test a tane extraction from undried fresh flowers to make "live resin"....is it worth a try? pack, freeze and blast...that's all? any tips greatly appreciated!

The problem you are having is caused by the direct contact of the cold cap and the coil. If your cap contacts the coil, it draws a lot of heat out of the coil. A friend had a cap that covered the coil on his "Pronail" e-nail. The coil would get red hot as soon as it was capped. My Errlectric coil has NEVER gotten red hot. You may be amazed at the difference that a proper fitting carb cap will make. That seal and proper airflow are crucial for proper low temp dabbing.
@herbivore21 bring the science.

 

[PPN]

The problem you are having is caused by the direct contact of the cold cap and the coil. If your cap contacts the coil, it draws a lot of heat out of the coil. A friend had a cap that covered the coil on his "Pronail" e-nail. The coil would get red hot as soon as it was capped. My Errlectric coil has NEVER gotten red hot. You may be amazed at the difference that a proper fitting carb cap will make. That seal and proper airflow are crucial for proper low temp dabbing.
@herbivore21 bring the science.

Ok, I'll plan to invest in a true nail+carbcap, any idea in EU?

My coil never gotten red hot, even when I set it at 700 and more...

I set mine at 520 with carbcap, take off the cap, prepare my dab, put it in the cup, re-cap, t° goes down to 508-510°F and slowly ramp up to 515 at the end of the first hit and stabilize at 520 during the 2nd and last hit (always took my dabs in 2 or 3 hits, it depends the dabsize). Honnestly I like this way to play with thermal properties even if it's a sign of a cheap controller.

I think I could avoid this issue switching to a large cup cause my cap will fit only on the top of the cup and not around the coil BUT I noticed I must to increase t° to get the same amount of vapor (and no pooling) with this cup cause the coil will sit under the cup (and not around)...otherwise I remenber to see a pic from you DieHard with this sort of setup...

 

[Amnesia]

It's a "D-Nail" from GreenLightvapes, it's similar to Auber and lot of others brands but cheaper since made in China, maybe this is explaining that....otherwise it's not a big deal to remenber to heat the carbcap!

My carbcap sit around the coil which is around the nail, only the internal top sit directly on the nail itself, the rest is in direct contact with the coil....

I tested with a cold carbcap...definitly worst for clouds but better for taste...so I tested to take off the carbcap 1mn before to dab to get a "perfect" balance between taste and clouds!

Actually I'm stuck with a moroccan kief tane extraction and I'll prefer flowers extraction!....and I was thinking to test a tane extraction from undried fresh flowers to make "live resin"....is it worth a try? pack, freeze and blast...that's all? any tips greatly appreciated!

You should try adjusting the PID of your nail. If I found the right device then this should be the same PID as yours XMT7100:

https://m.reddit.com/r/enail/comments/32p1q9/xmt7100_pids/

 

[Crohnie]

I just tried shatter for the first time. OH MY!

 

[Nazz1]

New to vaping.
How do you get the concentrate from the paper to the container? t frigging sticks to everything.
I am using a Haze 2.5.

 

[farscaper]

New to vaping.
How do you get the concentrate from the paper to the container? t frigging sticks to everything.
I am using a Haze 2.5.

stick it in the freezer.

 

[seaofgreens]

New to vaping.
How do you get the concentrate from the paper to the container? t frigging sticks to everything.
I am using a Haze 2.5.

get better concentrate.
shouldn't stick to everything
should feel solid at room temp.

well shit. maybe it's rosin? live resin?

 

[weenstoned]

Not really accurate. Some of the best concentrates are incredibly sticky at room temp (certain live resin for example).

 

[seaofgreens]

lol yeah, I wrote it and thought about it and edited while you were typing. figured that would come right up and sure enough, it did lighting quick.

 

[Nazz1]

It is a Moxie extract. " Trim Run "
Private Reserve OG

It looks like shatter....till you touch it. Then a blob is now stuck on you finger.......wait don't touch something else......now it Is stuck on that also. I had to rub my fingers in bud to get it off...didn't want to waste it.

I will try freezing, maybe.

 

[weenstoned]

You might want to try putting the side of the paper which does not have the extract on it against an ice pack for a few seconds (or longer). This should make it easier to handle.

 

[Nazz1]

Why not just put the paper in the freezer?

 

[weenstoned]

I think freezing it could add moisture. I mean it is pretty much the same thing. Just a tip I picked up from collecting rosin. If you don't have an ice pack then putting it in the freezer for a short time is probably fine.

 

[Monsoon]

I have a Pollen Master kief tumbler on order coming in a couple weeks and it's finally going to make it cost effective for me to switch from ISO to Everclear as a solvent. Where I live a liter of Everclear is $60 versus $8 for ISO and that's what I use per ounce. So in trying to be as cost effective as possible in time and resources does anyone know how little Everclear (95% ethanol) I need to dissolve contaminated kief? I think the yield would be about 8-10g of kief per ounce on average which in the end should translate to 4-5g of shatter. Less alcohol going in means less evap time too.

@herbivore21 Any thoughts on this? Figured you might at least know the solubility of cannabinoids in alcohol

 

[herbivore21]

I have a Pollen Master kief tumbler on order coming in a couple weeks and it's finally going to make it cost effective for me to switch from ISO to Everclear as a solvent. Where I live a liter of Everclear is $60 versus $8 for ISO and that's what I use per ounce. So in trying to be as cost effective as possible in time and resources does anyone know how little Everclear (95% ethanol) I need to dissolve contaminated kief? I think the yield would be about 8-10g of kief per ounce on average which in the end should translate to 4-5g of shatter. Less alcohol going in means less evap time too.

@herbivore21 Any thoughts on this? Figured you might at least know the solubility of cannabinoids in alcohol

This is a good idea my friend, I mean there is no need to abandon ISO for ethanol (in fact, I know of strong arguments to prefer iso over ethanol), however, in the absence of residual solvent testing equipment (allowing for use of solvents like methanol etc that you don't wanna use without knowing it's completely purged!), there are some applications where ethanol is mandatory.

You will have great success with this method though bro. I suggest using a good 10x the volume of ethanol as you have kief in your washes. You may get away with 7x instead, but I would use 10x to be certain you don't leave any goodies behind!

Obviously, you know your shit on wash times etc so you should be cool here bro Don't be too tempted to wash longer than you would wash buds with ethanol (which granted is somewhat longer than iso washes should go with the same material), as dry sifting can still get plenty of chlorophyll/contaminant in it that you don't want to leach into your solution!

You will definitely get less purge time which is no doubt gonna be helpful

 

[Monsoon]

This is a good idea my friend, I mean there is no need to abandon ISO for ethanol (in fact, I know of strong arguments to prefer iso over ethanol), however, in the absence of residual solvent testing equipment (allowing for use of solvents like methanol etc that you don't wanna use without knowing it's completely purged!), there are some applications where ethanol is mandatory.

You will have great success with this method though bro. I suggest using a good 10x the volume of ethanol as you have kief in your washes. You may get away with 7x instead, but I would use 10x to be certain you don't leave any goodies behind!

Obviously, you know your shit on wash times etc so you should be cool here bro Don't be too tempted to wash longer than you would wash buds with ethanol (which granted is somewhat longer than iso washes should go with the same material), as dry sifting can still get plenty of chlorophyll/contaminant in it that you don't want to leach into your solution!

You will definitely get less purge time which is no doubt gonna be helpful

Thanks!! That's definitely helpful. Doing a rough estimate in my head I'd probably need about 100ml per un-processed ounce of flower which is reasonable.

The exposure time during the wash will be significantly shortened just due to having to queue up several containers for filtering when using flower. With this method it's just one container and after 3 minutes of shaking I'll just pour it directly into the buchner funnel.

IMO the only reason to use ISO over ethanol is cost or availability. My purging methods have improved over time and the vacuum chamber was a huge help but I can't test my material where I live so that's always a concern. My ultimate goal is to get a rosin setup going and it's what led to me to get a tumbler but this is a nice side perk and helps to blunt the cost a bit. Also ethanol has the benefit of generally tasting better and pulling less nasty shit out.

 

[herbivore21]

Thanks!! That's definitely helpful. Doing a rough estimate in my head I'd probably need about 100ml per un-processed ounce of flower which is reasonable.

The exposure time during the wash will be significantly shortened just due to having to queue up several containers for filtering when using flower. With this method it's just one container and after 3 minutes of shaking I'll just pour it directly into the buchner funnel.

IMO the only reason to use ISO over ethanol is cost or availability. My purging methods have improved over time and the vacuum chamber was a huge help but I can't test my material where I live so that's always a concern. My ultimate goal is to get a rosin setup going and it's what led to me to get a tumbler but this is a nice side perk and helps to blunt the cost a bit. Also ethanol has the benefit of generally tasting better and pulling less nasty shit out.

Wash time sounds great here, I think you'll be most happy with results

I will just say on your last comment that actually, I have done many a QWISO first wash which has pulled out no chlorophyll and 0 wax/fat, resulting in perfect almost colorless pale yellow/orange (depending on strain) absolute shatter

0 wax/fat as judged when I went to winterize it and no coagulated wax/fats show up

ISO is a cruel mistress, in that if you do not have the most PERFECT method, equipment and crucially, execution in all aspects - you are gonna end up with worse end results. Still, I think your new method is gonna be sweet nonetheless

 

[Nazz1]

Back on the issue on handling the gooey Moxie "Trim Run" extract.
The ice pack worked great. However to handle it....the device, I use a very small spoon, that you use to scoop your dose from the paper, also has to be cold.
I also sit the can for my Haze on the ice pack. That way, the complete maneuver is done easier.

Nice effective high, comforting on the brain.

 

[thecrook]

Hi there Bho heads , what pump should i get with a 3 gallon chamber as a minimum?

Also When dewaxing my product do i freeze the butane in the pyrex measuring cup or pour it into an airtight glass container like a Kiln Jar before putting it into the Freezer.