Brexit - The Great British EU Dilema

[ReggieB]

huh , what, they voted to remain in UK and UK voted to leave EU, I take it you do not understand UK democracy, which is fine, I shall try to explain...

They knew an EU referendum was going to be held at the time they voted to remain in UK and if they voted to remain in UK there was a chance that the UK could leave the EU.

This is what is causing the problem and divide in our country currently. People making opinion without actually having the facts to hand or actually understanding how a democratic vote works.

It was like that women I saw on the John Oliver program, "I voted to leave but I wanted to remain, I didn't think leave would win.

Really, are you freaking serious!

Tories are in power and Boris is likely to become PM, do I want this 'No', did I vote for this 'No', do I have to suck it up, 'Yes', that's democracy!

Oooooh, patronising. well done :-) And they also told us if Scotland's position changed then they would seek a 2nd referendum, you even said the UK as an entity was illegal... If it's ok for one country to choose their future, it should be ok for another to choose too, or would you rather subjugate the scots and make them do your bidding? What about Northern Ireland?

 

[Joel W.]

we are a small Island

"With her 6.6 billion acres, Elizabeth II is far and away the world's largest landowner"

http://www.businessinsider.com/worlds-biggest-landowners-2011-3?op=1


1/6th of all the land on earth...Can that be correct?

 

[ReggieB]

"With her 6.6 billion acres, Elizabeth II is far and away the world's largest landowner"

http://www.businessinsider.com/worlds-biggest-landowners-2011-3?op=1


1/6th of all the land on earth...Can that be that correct?

Yes, it's all about the countries she is head of state for.

 

[kellya86]

Captain hindsight is gonna have something to say about all this... or not ?????

My point is, without the power of hindsight, it's impossible to know who is right or wrong, so it's all opinion, and opinions should be respected...

 

[ReggieB]

Eh? Of course it's possible in some circumstances to know who is right or wrong, without the need for hindsight.

As for opinions, nope, they shouldn't automatically be respected, unless you want to deny free speech, you should be prepared to take whatever opinion comes back at you regarding your own.

 

[phattpiggie]

A Labour MP, no idea who, but not a happy one, said in basic terms that 'The Party's imploded at a time when we should be attacking the Government for not being prepared for this'. It says it all and shows how farcical politics are.
To hell with 'Lets try and find a way thru this'. It just carries on 'Let's fukin whine and moan and bitch at each other and achieve fuk all'.
On top of the double decker last night Corbyn said something I've not once heard any other politician ever say. He wanted to address the injustice between the 'Super rich' and the poor.

 

[ReggieB]

both major parties have imploded and most of them (including leaders) are either doing damage limitation or positioning so that some of the muck from all this misses them a bit. You could argue that Corbyn isn't really focused on the issue at hand, unless of course that was his aim all along? a destabilised uk/europe bleeding money away from the super rich.

 

[KeroZen]

 

[phattpiggie]

I don't think Corbyn has a clue he looks shell shocked. I think he had to show his party support but I still don't think he put the effort in of a person who believed in what he was doing.
The super rich will always be rich.

@KeroZen I like the way he says we will fall into recession. We didn't come out of the last one it just got a different posher name.

 

[ReggieB]

He's a eurosceptic, it's only recently that he appears to have warmed to the EU hence my scepticism on his comment.

 

[gangababa]

Watching from this side of the Pond and worried about Boris' boorish 'brother' bungling even bigger.

Source: METRO UK

Spanish and Turkish restaurants in Lewisham had their windows smashed last night in what is being called the latest example of migrants being targeted in the wake of the Brexit vote.

 

[wunderkind]

I cringed a little bit when I saw Boris Johnson was still involved in UK politics. Admittedly, the only time I've seen him in action was at his press conference after the two Muslims beheaded the young British soldier on the streets of London a few years ago. He wasn't very impressive then. Hopefully he has improved since?

 

[ReggieB]

Nope, if anything he's got worse because what he's said recently affects the whole country and not just London when he was mayor.

 

[Havelock Vetenari]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=506897629498005

 

[1DMF]

you even said the UK as an entity was illegal.

No I didn't , I suggest you go and learn about the Queen's coronation and the illegal change to the constitution. I can see you just want to take anything I say and twist it to make your own point without actually understanding what I said. Which is fine as that's how most of the Brexit/Bremain campaigns have been run, so I can't blame people for having miss-guided views about certain view points.

It's an emotive subject, with strong views on either side, so as long as we can agree to disagree, it's all good, I hold no animosity to Bremain supporters, as I accept your right to an opposite opinion, what I hold objection to is those who wish to undermine a democratic process, such as Juncker and his disgraceful comments yesterday basically telling UK to "piss off" on behalf of the the entire European Union.

We haven't even handed in article 50 yet, and he has already asked why we are sitting at a democratic political table we have a right to still be at - he clearly is incapable of honouring the EU treaty and simply demonstrates why he is not welcome as far as majority in UK is concerned.

I do not accept he speaks for the whole of Europe, and call for this fascist to be banned from the Brexit negotiations. He is inflaming an already volatile situation, something Brexit does not need, while we struggle to contain the fascists in our own country that are starting to attack British citizens and marganalise immigrant communities.

Juncker is as much an asshole as those turning to violence and race hate, it needs to stop and he needs to go!

 

[ReggieB]

so wait, which is it, illegal or not? I'm not trying to jump on anything, just pointing out where I see something that doesn't make sense.

As for Juncker, I'm not surprised they had some animosity towards farage, it wasn't aimed at the UK, it was squarely aimed at farage because of his behaviour and I totally agree that farage should be banned from the brexit negotiations before he destroys what relationships we do have. The only time farage turns up to an eu meeting and it's to gloat, farage definitely needs to go, he's a divisive character that doesn't represent most of the people in this country.

 

[1DMF]

so wait, which is it, illegal or not?

Is what illegal or not? Do you even know what I'm talking about?

Farage was voted as an MEP to represent the UK, that's why he is there, it's called democracy and telling Farage to piss off is telling UK to piss off, because Farage is an MEP , democratically voted for, Farage has more of a right to be there than Juncker.

 

[ReggieB]

farage doesn't represent the country, he only turns up for himself, he apparently represents 1 of 12 electoral regions and like I said, farage only turns up to gloat and not do the job he was elected to do, he's a fraud, trying to claim he represents uk fisherman with his showboating up the thames when he didn't turn up to 42 of 43 meetings for the committee he was part of, you know, that bit where he was supposed to be representing the UK fishing industries best interests. Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall, a TV Chef has done more for the UK fishing fleet than farage ever will.

And no I don't know what you're talking about, that's what I'm trying to clarify.

 

[h3rbalist]

huh , what, they voted to remain in UK and UK voted to leave EU, I take it you do not understand UK democracy, which is fine, I shall try to explain...

They knew an EU referendum was going to be held at the time they voted to remain in UK and if they voted to remain in UK there was a chance that the UK could leave the EU.

This is what is causing the problem and divide in our country currently. People making opinion without actually having the facts to hand or actually understanding how a democratic vote works.

It was like that women I saw on the John Oliver program, "I voted to leave but I wanted to remain, I didn't think leave would win.

Really, are you freaking serious!

Tories are in power and Boris is likely to become PM, do I want this 'No', did I vote for this 'No', do I have to suck it up, 'Yes', that's democracy!

If you didn't vote labour at the last two general elections and voted leave at the EU referendum then you 'allowed' it and voted for it by proxy. What did you think would happen?

If people are not intelligent enough to see that then I have nothing else to say.

Except. ..
To those that did not vote labour and voted leave I say... you made your bed, now lay in it.

It's the rest of us that have to suck it up.

 

[1DMF]

Don't get me wrong, I don't support Farage and I'm disgusted at him taking an MEP salary and then not turning up to vote for 99% of the time. He has not served the UK properly as an MEP, but he was still elected and still has more right than Juncker to be there, this is just a democratic fact.

Supporting UKIP is not supporting NF - I vote for political party policies not people.

And no I don't know what you're talking about, that's what I'm trying to clarify.

OK, I'll try to explain, when the Queen was crowned the cabinet made an illegal , unconstitutional change to that created the crown of United Kingdom forming a country called United Kingdom

This is unacceptable, the crown is of England , there is no such country as the United Kingdom, it is a kingdom (currently queendom) and a union.

Just like the EU is a union not a country nor a nationality.

Now if the UK wants to remove the crown of England and form a legitimate mandated country called the United Kingdom.

In needs to be done via a referendum and have a mandate from the people of each of the countries, this wasn't even ratified by the house of commons let alone house of lords, this was implemented by the cabinet, and the cabinet cannot and must not EVER be allowed to pass laws and make fundamental constitutional changes in this manner.

Now would I vote to create a country called United Kingdom, perhaps, and even if I voted 'No' but the majority voted 'Yes' then I would accept it and embrace it. However, this change was not made democratically and so I refuse to accept its legitimacy.

Now do you understand?

I still recognise the United kingdom, but for what it is, a Kingdom and a Union, not a country!

Again you may or may not agree, however this doesn't change the facts.

If you didn't vote labour at the last two general elections

No I didn't vote Labour , I don't vote for war criminals, and until Blair is brought to justice I will never vote Labour again. That's just my personal political view, I voted labour that put Blair in power the first time, and ever since the Iraq war I've never voted Labour again and until justice is served never will.

 

[h3rbalist]

Don't get me wrong, I don't support Farage and I'm disgusted at him taking an MEP salary and then not turning up to vote for 99% of the time. He has not served the UK properly as an MEP, but he was still elected and still has more right than Juncker to be there, this is just a democratic fact.

Supporting UKIP is not supporting NF - I vote for political party policies not people.



OK, I'll try to explain, when the Queen was crowned the cabinet made an illegal , unconstitutional change to that created the crown of United Kingdom forming a country called United Kingdom

This is unacceptable, the crown is of England , there is no such country as the United Kingdom, it is a kingdom (currently queendom) and a union.

Just like the EU is a union not a country nor a nationality.

Now if the UK wants to remove the crown of England and form a legitimate mandated country called the United Kingdom.

In needs to be done via a referendum and have a mandate from the people of each of the countries, this wasn't even ratified by the house of commons let alone house of lords, this was implemented by the cabinet, and the cabinet cannot and must not EVER be allowed to pass laws and make fundamental constitutional changes in this manner.

Now would I vote to create a country called United Kingdom, perhaps, and even if I voted 'No' but the majority voted 'Yes' then I would accept it and embrace it. However, this change was not made democratically and so I refuse to accept its legitimacy.

Now do you understand?

I still recognise the United kingdom, but for what it is, a Kingdom and a Union, not a country!

Again you may or may not agree, however this doesn't change the facts.

No I didn't vote Labour , I don't vote for war criminals, and until Blair is brought to justice I will never vote Labour again. That's just my personal political view, I voted labour that put Blair in power the first time, and ever since the Iraq war I've never voted Labour again and until justice is served never will.

So you have no right to say that you did not vote for this shit because you played right into their hands and did exactly what they wanted you to.



Ever heard of the Falklands?

War is war.

Jesus, this is exactly why I think we're all so fucked.

 

[ReggieB]

and that's not really made it entirely clear, you're saying the UK was made under an unconstitutional and illegal change yet you still recognise the UK, you want democracy and sovereignty back in the hands of something that is constitutionally illegal... Can you see where someone might get confused on your views?

I notice that there are other eurosceptic meps, do you think they were the right people for the job? Instead of trying to reform the eu, they're actively trying to dismantle it from within, makes you wonder if this is the reason some people feel marginalised by europe.

 

[1DMF]

Ever heard of the Falklands?

Yes of course, It's a British colony that was invaded by an aggressor. Which is why the Gulf war was justified and the Iraq war wasn't. We as a nation will always defend others sovereignty that we have agreements with to do so if invaded.

You are very misguided if you think Falklands and Iraq have any similarities whatsoever (other than people dying of course).

and that's not really made it entirely clear, you're saying the UK was made under an unconstitutional and illegal change yet you still recognise the UK, you want democracy and sovereignty back in the hands of something that is constitutionally illegal... Can you see where someone might get confused on your views?

I've explained it as best I can, if you still don't get it, I'm not sure I have the vernacular to do so.

 

[h3rbalist]

Yes of course, It's a British colony that was invaded by an aggressor. Which is why the Gulf war was justified and the Iraq war wasn't. We as a nation will always defend others sovereignty that we have agreements with to do so if invaded.

You are very misguided if you think Falklands and Iraq have any similarities whatsoever (other than people dying of course).



I've explained it as best I can, if you still don't get it, I'm not sure I have the vernacular to do so.

Yes that's exactly how the Argentinians saw it.



So you are only oposed to unjustified murder?

I'm generally against all types.


But let's just reiterate that you are to blame for voting in this conservative government and leading Boris into power by not voting or protest voting.

It's the rest of us that have to suck it up.

Not you.

 

[phattpiggie]

@1DMF the conflict in Iraq and the Falklands have one very important thing in common. OIL. We were told we went to the Falklands to defend our people and oil wasn't even mentioned. We went there to defend our oil rights and defending sovereignty was a coincidence. The government mislead us then and will continue to mislead us. It's not in their interest to tell us the truth.

@h3rbalist Not wanting to get into a row or anything but your 'If you didn't for for us you voted for them' attitude is where the whole thing falls flat on it's face.
I didn't vote for any one and never have. Where does that put me. I get told my opinion isn't valid because I didn't vote, it's my fault they got in, I have no right to moan as I didn't take part. I have every right and it's about time the people in this country got their shit together and boycotted elections.
Tactical voting is a poor way of showing you aren't happy with the situation. Why vote for one bunch of lying wankers just to stop the other bunch of lying wankers getting in.

Until someone steps up and actually means something to me I will continue to exercise my democratic right to not vote.
It's about time we stopped all this them and us shit and worked together for the greater good.

@peterpiper Religion and politics should never mix. I rarely talk about either. Each to their own and that, if YOUR god/religion has the necessary placebo effect you need to live your life then that's up to you. There can't be a second coming there wasn't even a first.

I heard of a young 'chav' telling some dark skinned man to go back to Africa, it turns out he was of Indian decent and had lived here all his life. Recent racially motivated attacks show just how ignorant a lot of people in this country actually are. The government know if they keep us ignorant we are a lot easier to manipulate.