Brexit - The Great British EU Dilema

[ReggieB]

But cuba and russia aren't communist, they've tried to describe themselves as such but a dictatorship is definitely a dictatorship and run at the whims of the ruler/ruling elite.

quote:
No we aren't because you refuse to accept that UKIP supporters are normal people with political views or that anyone voting to leave the EU isn't a racist.

Luckily though I know Labour supporters who voted Brexit and it is actually argued that Jeremy Corbyn is a Brexit man which is why he's having such a hard time currently.

-------------------------
I haven't refused to accept anything, some ukip supporters are probably normal people with political views although I am struggling to find one that can hold a decent discussion without flip-flopping constantly but I still stand by what I said, how comfortable are you that right wing fascist organisations are aligning themselves with your party and feel emboldened by it?

 

[1DMF]

@His_Highness I'm hoping this is just Merkel posturing. If not we'll just strike a deal with Scandinavian and put all EU trade though them. I'm sure they would love to see their turnover increase exponentially with all our EU business.

 

[phattpiggie]

@h3rbalist If Cameron or Blundering Boris now defected to the labour party would you still show your support? If one of them became leader of the Labour party and then PM. How would you feel?

For me there is no left and right they are all the same.

If there was a 'none of the above' no confidence' box on the ballot paper would you use it?
Or would you carry on voting for one because they stand against the other.
The percentage of people in this country who turn out to vote has steadily fallen. It has risen and fallen but the 'figures' show it's fallen. Perhaps if that 'box' were added we may see more turn out.
I wish we had an alternative but we haven't and the longer the 'sheepeople' follow the herd and we continue with the 'them and us' stance the longer we will be fukd over big time.

The Cuban's are now having to embrace a different stance economics is driving it.

@1DMF

 

[1DMF]

@phattpiggie Power to the people!

You could start the "popular peoples front of UK" -

The Cuban's are now having to embrace a different stance economics is driving it.

My father told me when he visited that it really isn't working, although the idea of everyone being equal and paid equally sounds like a great idea.

When you spent 10 years studying for a doctors medical certificate and then get paid the same peanut wage the road sweeper gets, people quickly get disillusioned by the system.

 

[ReggieB]

@phattpiggie Power to the people!

You could start the "popular peoples front of UK" -

or Judea...

 

[Gray Area]

It's rather amusing that the reality of the situation is the leader of the Labour party actually supports Brexit, had voted against the Maastricht & Lisbon treaties and voted to not join the EU in the first place in the 1970's.

Being a eurosceptic isn't the same as supporting Brexit...

 

[Gray Area]

or Judea...

Splitters

 

[1DMF]

Being a eurosceptic isn't the same as supporting Brexit...

No it's not that he doesn't want to leave, he didn't want to join in the first place!

 

[phattpiggie]

LOL 'How are you gonna vote?'
I'm voting PPFUK.
Excellent 1dmf

EDIT Sorry had to do it

 

[Gray Area]

No it's not that he doesn't want to leave, he didn't want to join in the first place!

Like I said, completely different.

Thing is now we are (were) part if the EU, he know's it'd be a mistake just to up and walk out the way we have, esp with the bunch of poor/disabled/minority hating cunts that we have in charge of the country atm.

What are people thinking??

 

[h3rbalist]

@h3rbalist If Cameron or Blundering Boris now defected to the labour party would you still show your support? If one of them became leader of the Labour party and then PM. How would you feel?

For me there is no left and right they are all the same.

If there was a 'none of the above' no confidence' box on the ballot paper would you use it?
Or would you carry on voting for one because they stand against the other.
The percentage of people in this country who turn out to vote has steadily fallen. It has risen and fallen but the 'figures' show it's fallen. Perhaps if that 'box' were added we may see more turn out.
I wish we had an alternative but we haven't and the longer the 'sheepeople' follow the herd and we continue with the 'them and us' stance the longer we will be fukd over big time.

The Cuban's are now having to embrace a different stance economics is driving it.

@1DMF

Great question.

Yes. I would.

Because the party would still consist of a more trust worthy bunch to me.

If you just reversed the name of the parties then the answer would be no.

Lol sorry for the Ché post I threw that hot potato out there deliberately to stir.

Yes, power to the people....


But I am more like...

 

[1DMF]

with your party

err where on earth did you get that idea from?

If you want me to align with a party, it's Lib Dem!

I'd like to think I have liberal views and believe in democracy.

Unfortunately, the last time I voted for them and they actually got into shared power, the policies I voted for were not implemented or worse, thrown to the dogs.

Dope wasn't legalised and I had to quit going back to university because the course price was quadrupled through tuition fee increases.

If a party fails to implement the policies I voted for, I stop voting for them.

I think the technical term they use for someone like me is a 'floating voter'

 

[phattpiggie]

@h3rbalist fair enough, but to me that just doesn't work.
How can you show support for someone who you weren't willing to show support to before?
He will still have the same principles just using them under a different banner and the party he then joins must have similar principles other wise why would he defect??

Which is where my point about them all being the same comes into it.

 

[ReggieB]

I would've gotten that idea from your posts, you seemed to be defending ukip above all other parties.

The liberals were between a rock and a hard place, I'm not entirely sure how people expected their time in power to go, it was clear to pretty much everyone that they wouldn't be implementing a lot of their policies but at least they had the opportunity to shine a light on some of the worst stuff.

 

[h3rbalist]

@h3rbalist fair enough, but to me that just doesn't work.
How can you show support for someone who you weren't willing to show support to before?
He will still have the same principles just using them under a different banner and the party he then joins must have similar principles other wise why would he defect??

Which is where my point about them all being the same comes into it.

Yes he will.

But for example I'd still have the same local labour MP fighting to keep my mum in her family home after my Dad died recently.

I have faith in that guy. I've had Kate Howy round my mum's for tea. I genuinely trust her. I can't say the same for the conservatives.

I have to have faith or I'd be on your side right? you slipppery so and so? And you'd be right. (You really should be a politician)

But I guess it's the same faith other ppl show for the politics they believe in. I just feel my reasons for are more positive than for others reasons against


But for now my heart feels right with the choices I have made and when the shit hits the fan I'll be first in the protest or hopefully immigrated to Canada by then. Because if my family and I are going to be seen as immigrants in our own land we may as well be immigrants somewhere else.

 

[1DMF]

I would've gotten that idea from your posts, you seemed to be defending ukip above all other parties.

Nope, I've never joined a party and I don't align myself with any particular one. I can hardly be a dope head and far right surely?

The actual beauty for me is I voted UKIP because I wanted an independent UK and had fallen out of love with Lib Dems. Ironically the UKIP surge and deserters scared the Tories into giving a referendum and now we have achieved independence.

So there is no real need for me to vote UKIP again.

I actually feel a bit like @phattpiggie and may deliberately spoil my paper next time, who knows, it's likely to be 4 years away, so lets see where we are then.

Lol sorry for the Ché post I threw that hot potato out there deliberately to stir.

I was begginging to wonder and ask if you could send me some of what ever it is you are vaping!

 

[ReggieB]

I see, you're just misunderstood...

 

[phattpiggie]

@1DMF I've spoken more about this shit in the last few days than I have about any other political event.
I was 'hunted down' by the neighbor. A man I've spoken at length with, once maybe twice until Friday last. Always say hello, tell him his car window is open when it looks like rain, the old fashioned things people used to.
'Which way did you vote?' I was met with by an ex forces, music specifically violin teacher.
I told him I didn't and had never had.
I was shocked when he said he had waited 30 years to vote leave. I took him as an 'innie' rather than an 'outtie', like belly buttons. I've not asked him why, but we had more common ground than I realised.

He has 'defaced' any ballot paper he has been asked nicely to sign, a fine for wanting to opt out of the democratic system you don't believe in, how very democratic. A none of the above style thing. He believed it would be noted, I told him it wouldn't as it was just some random Joe's job to count, and maybe re-count, the votes.
I was very surprised and pleasantly, a breath of fresh air if you like.

@h3rbalist your local MP shouldn't have even needed to fight for your mother, but nice and very re-assuring that you got the help needed.
What if it had been Gove, hypothetically, and he had done the same thing how would you feel?
How would that rest with your political ideals??
What I am getting at is that you got help from the person not the party, that was coincidental.

Everyone will be either for or against things that's how it works. This leads to loyalties and sometimes the loyalty becomes all consuming and the real picture just gets blurred out.

Enjoy Canada I loved the vacation I had there. I'd get your skates on there will be one less place once the Governor of the Bank of England has 'his' affairs in order. Oh and watch out some of their politicians use crack cocaine.

EDIT. I nearly forgot what brought me to the FC community. I'm off to vape my tits off, blueberry and cheese cocktail me thinks. Enjoy your drugs folks.

 

[1DMF]

I've spoken more about this shit in the last few days than I have about any other political event.

Same here, I tend to not bother getting into it most of the time, especially on forums, as it usually turns into a flame war and the obligatory mention of 'Hitler' the thread killer.

However, this place feels different, and having poked my head into the USA thread, I felt it would be possible to have a sensible (even if heated at times) discussion about this momentus occasion.

It's clear many of us have differing views on independence, but I hope the country can pull together to move forward and make this work.

It's not an ideal situation and it would have been better if the EU had negotiated terms that enabled us to remain, but that was never going to happen while that asshole Juncker is in charge and Merkle refuses to allow controlled immigration.

We now seem to be in the ridiculous situation where once again we have the leader of Germany making threats towards the UK. That will never turn out good!

It's nice to see that at least one of the other EU countries aren't so short sighted as Czech foreign minister is calling for Juncker's resignation, the questions is do other also think this, and if they do are they willing to admit it.

He's ordered all the other EU countries to not talk to the UK, so clearly they are seriously worried as they think they can start dictating to other countries who they are allowed to talk to. I mean, seriously how old is the guy 5?

 

[yogoshio]

He's ordered all the other EU countries to not talk to the UK, so clearly they are seriously worried as they think they can start dictating to other countries who they are allowed to talk to.

And that right there is proof enough to me that the EU is a child's game. With all the hopes and dreams it may wish to uphold, when someone tries to hold them accountable and they play that card, they've shown their whole hand IMO.

Edit note: This was not specifically commentary on Brexit itself, more so just my opinion of the EU and its false promises. We can all hope and pray for unity, etc. But when someone acts like this, when high expectations are met with childish knee-jerk reactions, I don't care what they might be trying to do, what they are doing is more important to me.

 

[phattpiggie]

I tend to not bother getting into it most of the time, especially on forums, as it usually turns into a flame war

However, this place feels different

That's probably down to the fact that we are behaving like grown up's, if we don't understand some one else's point of view or something they've written, we have said we didn't understand.
We can all bicker, shout, resort to abuse or violence to get our point of view over, as the worlds politicians do, but to be perfectly honest I'm too old for that kind of shit. If they expect me to take them seriously they need to behave like adults.

 

[ReggieB]

I thought they'd said there would be no discussion with the UK until we'd given them notice via article 50? If it's more than that, it's childish.

 

[phattpiggie]

If the French don't want to talk to us that's fine by me. Let's hope they can fill the economic gaps they could create if we all behave the same way. I don't drink wine and I like cheese, UK or EU, but if I didn't eat it again well it's not a problem. So let's all behave like dummy spitter's and boycott France.

I admired French farmers when I heard about this in 1990. I thought 'good on you' stand up rather than sit down and take it, not too sure about the animal welfare side of things. Slaughter the animals humanely and BBQ them over the burning vehicles makes much more sense to me.

http://www.nytimes.com/1990/09/17/world/french-protest-of-sheep-imports-turns-ugly.html

Even if you don't read it all the last line says it all

Mr. Lacombe, head of the French farmers warned
'A Europe with free-market farm policies is one that will kill farmers'.

I'm going away to the sun in August. First time in a long time. I'm going to Spain. I don't think they will be saying 'I don't want to talk to you'. My pound may not be as strong a currency as it was before but it still converts into Euro's which they need. As do Greece, Portugal and any of the others who may be about to follow suit.

 

[1DMF]

@ReggieB Who knows, but I'm sure no.10 has most countries on speed dial and vice versa, what Juncker says is irrelevant.

@phattpiggie I do not believe Juncker & Merkle speak for the common man in any country, and having traveled to many places, including Turkey, Egypt, Thailand, India, USA, Israel, Greece, Cyprus, most of Europe.. it's a long list and growing , the people have been unbelievably friendly, courteous and hospitable, ok got rocks thrown at us in Aswan by kids, but other than that, it's the minority that seem to get headlines and make it look worse than it actually is.

The biggest concern currently is the Conservative leadership battle. Half the people putting themselves forward are in the 'remain' camp, I mean seriously Theresa May, are you having a laugh the person responsible for immigration, who's flipped flopped, lied and been found to be completely incompetent, is an adamant remain supporter even to the point of stating the UK would have to maintain open borders even if we voted to leave the EU.

It seems people have conveniently forgotten about her deviousness and the scandal she caused around border control - she should have been sacked a long time ago, and now she's running for PM

If Cameron can't take us forward due to wanting to remain, them surely no 'remain' supporter can take the position.

If it's a choice between Boris Johnson & Theresa May, I choose Cameron!

 

[phattpiggie]

None of the above.