Gear Best Clearo for Pure Gold?
- Thread starter Haywood
- Start date
fernand
Well-Known Member
They have sapphire-alikes on ebay, in 0.3ml, 0.5 and 1.0ml. They all seem to work fine. The little silicone rubber 510 cover helps a lot, but over time oils love to seep. Carry upside down. Or tote 4 different strains horizontal in an Altoids tin! Make sure the fill plug is in solid. I use 2/3 wax or thick oil, 1/3 EJMIX. Two hits is great, 3 is a LOT.
Over time a lot of stuff migrates into the "chamber", where it sits ready to blow your head off ... or seep out the 510 connector. Should this occur, the 420 commission recommends lying on one's back, holding the device with the battery pointed at the ceiling, pulsing to warm the oil, then vaping until the chamber clears or total couch lock occurs.
Over time a lot of stuff migrates into the "chamber", where it sits ready to blow your head off ... or seep out the 510 connector. Should this occur, the 420 commission recommends lying on one's back, holding the device with the battery pointed at the ceiling, pulsing to warm the oil, then vaping until the chamber clears or total couch lock occurs.
zebra
Vaper
Thank you for info fernand! Do you happen to remember the name the sapphire-alike carts were called on eBay? Looking to grab some of the .5 or 1ml cartridges. Are these the DEX I heard about from a buddy? Do you recommend a seller? Really appreciate all the info thanks again.
zebra
Vaper
Any body hear anything about these new updated bud 510 carts they are calling the BUD DEX? supposedly "higher resistance" and "made to work with thicker oils"? I am seeing them on Ebay they have like a red band around the chrome bottom and a rounder mouthpiece (though still black plastic) Could be perfect for PureGold, they come in .6ml which would hold 1 ampule with a little room to spare... My worry is that when they say "thick oil" they mean thicker than the gold, and maybe anything thinner would leak? Last thing I want is a leaky cart, especially when what I'm leaking is Gold!! appreciate any thoughts any of you experts out there have, thanks!
Haywood
Onward Thru the Fog
I have no idea whatsoever if they're the best thing since sliced bread or they suck, but if you would like to check out the latest of what Shenzhen Buddy Technology Co., Ltd. is up to in the mini clearo world, just click on this link. (Scroll down, to see every size and shape of clearo, including the "Sapphire" in three sizes and the BUD-DEX you mentioned; there are 21 pages worth).
StheDubya
Active Member
I think that is what my buddy just got from ebay and really likes it.
fernand
Well-Known Member
I've been looking for a versatile DNA20 type Mod that operates below 3 volts and (ideally) accomodates 510 and eGo connections like for the KangerTech ProTank Minis. Well, I just found the Heatvape Defender, $45 on ebay, that meets all my requirements and then some. Built-in (unfortunately not swappable) battery, but 2600 mAh, 20 amp, charges and runs passthru on microUSB. It cooks up to 25 watts, up to 8 volts, down to 0.5 ohms, but best of all, down to 1 volt! That means you should be able to run an atomizer in low wattage pre-warm mode to liquify the concentrate to fully wick, then bring it up to vaporize at whatever wattage you want. Looks like it might be useful for both water-soluble (VG, PG, Nic) and oil (THC, CBD) vaping. So many vices in one's devices ...
Haywood
Onward Thru the Fog
@fernand: Be aware. From what I've seen the Defender is a knock off of the iStick (the original 20W version), and uses the same chip. This chip is calibrated in mean volts instead of rms volts, and runs MUCH hotter for a given voltage (or wattage) readout than we're used to, particularly on the low end. I have one of the 20W iSticks, and at it's minimum output voltage, it will say it's delivering 3v into 2.2Ω (4 watts, as I recall), but it's really delivering 4v rms, or closer to 7.5W.
I just ordered the new 30W version of the iStick, as it's calibrated in rms volts (or so I'm told), and will allow me to put less power into my dripping atty's. Like you, I've found that with concentrates in a standard 2.2Ω 510 atty (or a RDA at any non-sub ohm resistance, if you prefer rolling your own), lower power is much more to my liking than higher power. I prefer 4 to 5 watts for most of my concentrates.
Plus the original 20W iStick is the less money than the Defender (street price $25-$30). The Defender is available for $35 (don't pay $45 for one). The only thing that looked nicer about the Defender was the cool reversible 510/eGo connector. Oh, and the iStick 30W version, with the ability to put out less power as well as more power, with a self-adjusting 510 center pin instead of a fixed one, with more adjustments (like the ability to lock the power up and down buttons), goes for $31.50 (with the "10percentoff" discount code) at eciggity. Mine should be here by the end of the week, and of the three mods, I think the 30W is one to get; I'll keep you posted if you can wait.
I can't grab them now, but let me know if you'd like some links to a review of the Defender or pointers to an extensive thread about the iStick 20W and 30W mods and what they really put out (with graphs and charts). Since the 20W iStick and the Defender apparently use the same chip, all the iStick 20W info is probably relevant.
I just ordered the new 30W version of the iStick, as it's calibrated in rms volts (or so I'm told), and will allow me to put less power into my dripping atty's. Like you, I've found that with concentrates in a standard 2.2Ω 510 atty (or a RDA at any non-sub ohm resistance, if you prefer rolling your own), lower power is much more to my liking than higher power. I prefer 4 to 5 watts for most of my concentrates.
Plus the original 20W iStick is the less money than the Defender (street price $25-$30). The Defender is available for $35 (don't pay $45 for one). The only thing that looked nicer about the Defender was the cool reversible 510/eGo connector. Oh, and the iStick 30W version, with the ability to put out less power as well as more power, with a self-adjusting 510 center pin instead of a fixed one, with more adjustments (like the ability to lock the power up and down buttons), goes for $31.50 (with the "10percentoff" discount code) at eciggity. Mine should be here by the end of the week, and of the three mods, I think the 30W is one to get; I'll keep you posted if you can wait.
I can't grab them now, but let me know if you'd like some links to a review of the Defender or pointers to an extensive thread about the iStick 20W and 30W mods and what they really put out (with graphs and charts). Since the 20W iStick and the Defender apparently use the same chip, all the iStick 20W info is probably relevant.
fernand
Well-Known Member
@Haywood, thanks, yo! we'll see, a bit late now ;-) I don't know which chips are in which machine at the moment, it's literally a tsunami of adjustables to replace the fading eGos.
And Oh, it's so lovely that as Vapers we'll soon be all alone in our little subculture, as the WHO/DEA whores finish crucifying the e-cig, scaring the little ones back to Marlboro country with lines like "we don't have any evidence of their safety". As if people with an IQ above 80 were still believing them. There's no other explanation that I can see, it's called collusion.
But these Heatvape guys seem to be on a bit of a roll, if you look you'll see lots of new models, ceramic atties, etc etc, they apparently have money to throw at the issues. So I dunno if they are in a "just copy" mode. The lower voltage limit on the Defender was what did it for me, none of the other, let's call 'em ... how about "boxettes", go that low. Easy enough to put a scope on it and measure.
From what I saw the pre-production Defender was what was reviewed, e.g. fixed 510 pin w/ no spring, chromed brass top, etc etc. We'll see what you get and what I get, when both of us have our "poison du jour", soon, we'll commiserate, howl at the moon, and so on.
Links to graphs and epitaphs are welcome.
The little sapphire-types in 0.5 ml are nice, there were some 0.3 ml ones too.
BTW, as fer roll yer own, I'm beyond stoked at the Tobeco clone of the Kayfun V4. Got mine for $23 shipped. Glad I finally crossed the 0 nic bridge. It's easy to see why even the hard cores are vaping 3 mg/ml juice, with clouds that thick!
And Oh, it's so lovely that as Vapers we'll soon be all alone in our little subculture, as the WHO/DEA whores finish crucifying the e-cig, scaring the little ones back to Marlboro country with lines like "we don't have any evidence of their safety". As if people with an IQ above 80 were still believing them. There's no other explanation that I can see, it's called collusion.
But these Heatvape guys seem to be on a bit of a roll, if you look you'll see lots of new models, ceramic atties, etc etc, they apparently have money to throw at the issues. So I dunno if they are in a "just copy" mode. The lower voltage limit on the Defender was what did it for me, none of the other, let's call 'em ... how about "boxettes", go that low. Easy enough to put a scope on it and measure.
From what I saw the pre-production Defender was what was reviewed, e.g. fixed 510 pin w/ no spring, chromed brass top, etc etc. We'll see what you get and what I get, when both of us have our "poison du jour", soon, we'll commiserate, howl at the moon, and so on.
Links to graphs and epitaphs are welcome.
The little sapphire-types in 0.5 ml are nice, there were some 0.3 ml ones too.
BTW, as fer roll yer own, I'm beyond stoked at the Tobeco clone of the Kayfun V4. Got mine for $23 shipped. Glad I finally crossed the 0 nic bridge. It's easy to see why even the hard cores are vaping 3 mg/ml juice, with clouds that thick!
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Haywood
Onward Thru the Fog
@fernand: I've been playing with a RoseV2, which I love for zero protruding screws, no need for NR-R-NR coils, and the ability to use or not use a ceramic cup. Been trying dual twisted 32G kanthal inside the small rXw ceramic wick; no exposed wire or metal in the chamber. Takes too long to heat up though (e.g., not instantaneous, needs a few seconds). But this belongs in the "One-Hitter-Quitter" thread, I suppose.
My little batteries are all dying too! Just tossed two eGo VV Spinners, and my iTaste VV V3 is pretty much useless now, its capacity down to about 200mAh. Kills me to have to toss a perfectly working VV/VW mod just because the cell is finished, even if it only cost $25.
btw, a good way to keep track of batteries that use USB to charge is one of the little volt-amp-capacity USB meters on sale at eBay and Amazon for about $10-$15. Just make sure you get one that records capacity (mAh). When one of your eGo's is empty, you can see how many mAh it takes to charge it to full. When one of your "650mAh" eGos only takes 200mAh to take it from empty to full, you have a clue it's time to chuck it, before you get stuck at the concert with a gram of shatter and a battery that stopped working after the third hit...
It would be very nice if the Defender really works down to a volt or two with an ~ 2Ω coil. Or even with a 1.5Ω coil. My 1st gen (20W) iStick will go down to 2W with no atty attached, but once I put one of my 1.5Ω-2.4Ω attys on it, the minimum jumps to 4W (and that's mean watts, not rms watts; with a 2.2Ω atty the minimum my 20W iStick puts out is really 7.5W). I have a little chart with the true limits of the 20W iStick with different resistance coils. When you take into account the upper and lower voltage and current limits, the range is considerably less than you might guess from the advertising. Hopefully both of our soon-to-arrive tiny mods will prove to work well; I'll keep you posted.
(Oh, and I'll dig up that link shortly)
My little batteries are all dying too! Just tossed two eGo VV Spinners, and my iTaste VV V3 is pretty much useless now, its capacity down to about 200mAh. Kills me to have to toss a perfectly working VV/VW mod just because the cell is finished, even if it only cost $25.
btw, a good way to keep track of batteries that use USB to charge is one of the little volt-amp-capacity USB meters on sale at eBay and Amazon for about $10-$15. Just make sure you get one that records capacity (mAh). When one of your eGo's is empty, you can see how many mAh it takes to charge it to full. When one of your "650mAh" eGos only takes 200mAh to take it from empty to full, you have a clue it's time to chuck it, before you get stuck at the concert with a gram of shatter and a battery that stopped working after the third hit...
It would be very nice if the Defender really works down to a volt or two with an ~ 2Ω coil. Or even with a 1.5Ω coil. My 1st gen (20W) iStick will go down to 2W with no atty attached, but once I put one of my 1.5Ω-2.4Ω attys on it, the minimum jumps to 4W (and that's mean watts, not rms watts; with a 2.2Ω atty the minimum my 20W iStick puts out is really 7.5W). I have a little chart with the true limits of the 20W iStick with different resistance coils. When you take into account the upper and lower voltage and current limits, the range is considerably less than you might guess from the advertising. Hopefully both of our soon-to-arrive tiny mods will prove to work well; I'll keep you posted.
(Oh, and I'll dig up that link shortly)
Haywood
Onward Thru the Fog
@fernand: I plan on trying to take apart the iTaste VV V3, but it's riveted (not screwed) together, so it's going to be destructive no matter what I do, and I suspect the cell is not something I can source and replace anyway. At least I can salvage the electronics, though for what eventual use I haven't fathomed yet...
My 30W iStick showed up a couple of hours ago, and so far, it does what I want. At its minimum setting, it's lower than I want, and when I turn it up to match the effect/action I like on all my other mods, the voltage/wattage reads the same as they do. I'm happy vaping my 2.2Ω coils with it now. The new 510 connector works with all my attys and tanks (including the mini aero I use for Pure Gold), though the old one did as well, and I really welcome the locking function on the power settings buttons, particularly since I'm no longer running at the device's minimum.
Looking forward to hearing your experience with the Defender.
My 30W iStick showed up a couple of hours ago, and so far, it does what I want. At its minimum setting, it's lower than I want, and when I turn it up to match the effect/action I like on all my other mods, the voltage/wattage reads the same as they do. I'm happy vaping my 2.2Ω coils with it now. The new 510 connector works with all my attys and tanks (including the mini aero I use for Pure Gold), though the old one did as well, and I really welcome the locking function on the power settings buttons, particularly since I'm no longer running at the device's minimum.
Looking forward to hearing your experience with the Defender.
fernand
Well-Known Member
@Haywood, so happy for you, not the slightest touch of envy ... I haven't checked the shipping status on mine, I'm kinda pissed off at myself for having overpaid, but at least I THINK what's coming is the latest model with the spring on the 510 pin. I had ordered the black, then it turned out the "black" was really blehhk, some sort of pattern, and I quickly requested a change to ... RED? No, that's more like baby-gut pink, BLUE? No, that's Chinese Blue disgusting, ok Silver it is, and he did change my order before shipping it.
ok, SO on yer iStick, if you put a 2 ohm coil on, what voltage can you step it down to? Wattage? What about on a 1.5 or 1.0 ohm coil?
My hope for the Defender (defense from what?) is to be able to start any coil in warm-up mode, at very low power, and only then run it up to vape power.
Ah - mine just arrived. What I didn't know was that WATTAGE is the limiting parameter. You can't get more than 25 watts, fair enough. But you can't get LESS than 5 watts either. So it doesn't matter if you want 1 volt, if that's going to create less than 5 watts, you can't have it.
Does your iStick have the 5 memories for 5 different atomizers? Mine doesn't.
Does it have the temp regulation mode for nickel wire? Mine doesn't.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: Do you know where I can read up on ... OK, here's the question. How can I tell how much a given Li-ion battery holds? As you point out, nothing like walking out da do' with a fully charged battery reading 4.20 v, only to have it fold 5 tokes into a sess.
You'd think there'd be a way to tell, maybe using some readings on the fancy-ass Nitecore D4 Charger I just got?
BTW, the Nitecore refused to charge an IMR that was down to around 3.4 v. I put it on a dumber charger which happily brought it to 4.20 v, and now the Nitecore considers it just fine. Is it that it knows nothing of unprotected batteries? Strange.
ok, SO on yer iStick, if you put a 2 ohm coil on, what voltage can you step it down to? Wattage? What about on a 1.5 or 1.0 ohm coil?
My hope for the Defender (defense from what?) is to be able to start any coil in warm-up mode, at very low power, and only then run it up to vape power.
Ah - mine just arrived. What I didn't know was that WATTAGE is the limiting parameter. You can't get more than 25 watts, fair enough. But you can't get LESS than 5 watts either. So it doesn't matter if you want 1 volt, if that's going to create less than 5 watts, you can't have it.
Does your iStick have the 5 memories for 5 different atomizers? Mine doesn't.
Does it have the temp regulation mode for nickel wire? Mine doesn't.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: Do you know where I can read up on ... OK, here's the question. How can I tell how much a given Li-ion battery holds? As you point out, nothing like walking out da do' with a fully charged battery reading 4.20 v, only to have it fold 5 tokes into a sess.
I have a box of 3.7 volt 18650 batteries that go back a ways, like old Trustfires and other wonders. I'd vape on one until it would require recharging often enough to be annoying, so I'd set it aside, and put another into service. I've lost track of which ones are still usable. Some are AW or Efest IMRs, with supposedly no protection circuit, others are standard protected batteries.
You'd think there'd be a way to tell, maybe using some readings on the fancy-ass Nitecore D4 Charger I just got?
BTW, the Nitecore refused to charge an IMR that was down to around 3.4 v. I put it on a dumber charger which happily brought it to 4.20 v, and now the Nitecore considers it just fine. Is it that it knows nothing of unprotected batteries? Strange.
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fernand
Well-Known Member
------------ but now back to the mini power hour starring ... The Defender -------
Lovely piece o' kit. The weight, the size, the feel in the hand - are just just grand. It's rounded, yet rectangular, not too big, not too angular. It accepts an iStick condom. Hey, in fact I like it a lot. The pass-thru mode is important for anyone spending too much time behind a screen, keeps the unit charged up ready to go out with. Somehow I don't think I'm going to be exceeding 25 watts much, in this lifetime anyway, so the 25 vs 30 watts isn't critical to me. I like the 2600 mAh capacity. I like the stainless steel top, and the stainless steel threaded connector.
That built-in reversible 510/eGo connector fits my ProTank 2 minis that I keep oiled up and ready to go. The only complaint is that at 2.5 ohms, the Defender can't put out less than 5 watts or 3.5 volts, which is more than my Provari at 3.3 volts, so for someone looking for the promised "1 to 8 volts", the spec is not completely honest, if not misleading. I wish it came with a 1 amp USB charger. I wish it had the lock feature.
The device is held together with screws, like the iStick! I plan to tear it apart soon, warranty - schmarranty. I suspect that replacing the internal battery is in its (distant?) future.
For now, FWIW I'll tell ya, with a Kayfun V4 Tobeco clone, using a 1.4 ohm "contact" or "micro" coil on a stainless steel 400 mesh wick with cotton barbells at 16 watts, it's by far the handiest, the thickest and the best tasting zero nic juice vape I've had in my 4+ years of vaping everything worth vaping. Turn that sucker up to 20 watts and it's like Vesuvius coming for Pompei!
Anyways ... happy vape.
Lovely piece o' kit. The weight, the size, the feel in the hand - are just just grand. It's rounded, yet rectangular, not too big, not too angular. It accepts an iStick condom. Hey, in fact I like it a lot. The pass-thru mode is important for anyone spending too much time behind a screen, keeps the unit charged up ready to go out with. Somehow I don't think I'm going to be exceeding 25 watts much, in this lifetime anyway, so the 25 vs 30 watts isn't critical to me. I like the 2600 mAh capacity. I like the stainless steel top, and the stainless steel threaded connector.
That built-in reversible 510/eGo connector fits my ProTank 2 minis that I keep oiled up and ready to go. The only complaint is that at 2.5 ohms, the Defender can't put out less than 5 watts or 3.5 volts, which is more than my Provari at 3.3 volts, so for someone looking for the promised "1 to 8 volts", the spec is not completely honest, if not misleading. I wish it came with a 1 amp USB charger. I wish it had the lock feature.
The device is held together with screws, like the iStick! I plan to tear it apart soon, warranty - schmarranty. I suspect that replacing the internal battery is in its (distant?) future.
For now, FWIW I'll tell ya, with a Kayfun V4 Tobeco clone, using a 1.4 ohm "contact" or "micro" coil on a stainless steel 400 mesh wick with cotton barbells at 16 watts, it's by far the handiest, the thickest and the best tasting zero nic juice vape I've had in my 4+ years of vaping everything worth vaping. Turn that sucker up to 20 watts and it's like Vesuvius coming for Pompei!
I just scooted on over to The Bench in proactive mode and mixed up another 50 ml of my beloved All-VG Cigaro Toscano blend, as I think I can vape a whole 4 ml tank dry in a matter of minutes off this rig without trying too hard. Gonna work on oil vapes tomorrow.
So, the Defender is a nice unit, I don't even regret overpaying a bit at $45 shipped. The SvoeMesto Kayfun V4 is another winner, though at 120 quid, $200, I can't help remembering that I've bought used cars for that kind of money when I was a student. Yamamoto's Folly, an ugly-ass white 8 cylinder 1960 Ford station wagon, cost me exactly $175, so seriously, are clones like the Tabeco incomprehensible ?
Anyways ... happy vape.
Haywood
Onward Thru the Fog
@fernand: So much to respond to here...
Due to the overwhelming success of the original iStick (20W), there are now a number of very small, very powerful regulated mods. ELeaf has added three more to the iStick line (the 10W mini, the 30W I just received, and a 50W that is shipping to vendors this week from China). There is the Defender you just received, which from all I've heard so far, uses the same chip as the iStick 20W, but has a different physical design, and perhaps a slightly higher capacity battery. The IPV Mini was recently released (that's the one you asked about that has five memory positions), as was one whose name escapes me at the moment that purports to have temperature control (ala the evolv DNA40). Note that the one whose name escapes me has not shipped yet, so no one has tested it yet. None of the new contenders goes lower in power/voltage though, they're all fighting to have more in the top end. More importantly, none of the new mini mods are as small and hand friendly as the iStick line, with the exception of the Defender you just got (which also has some advantages, such as the reversable eGo/510 connector). All of the rest of them, so far, are larger enough that they just don't provide the same experience. They don't fit the hand or the pocket as well. I enjoy the way my iStick 20W and 30W feel (wisecracks allowed). None of this would matter if the iSticks didn't work well; they all do. The 10W mini, which I picked up for a friend, is tiny, a delight to use, and way better than the VV Spinner it replaced!
If it makes you feel any better, after using the new iStick 30W for a day, there are only two things about it that I prefer to the old one. (1) It's not PWM (Pulse Width Modulated) anymore, and is calibrated in rms volts instead of mean volts. (Check out Todd's review, just posted. Phil Busardo's review will have the most technical detail, but he hasn't reviewed the iStick 30W yet). This means I can get a "real" 5 Watts out of it, rather than the 7.5W or so that's the true minimum for the 20W version. Most people are concerned with the top end, not the bottom end, but both you and I are not most people.
With about half of the different concentrates I use, I prefer (true rms) 5W-6W for the attys I use. 7W-8W is just a little more than I like, requiring me to take two second hits instead of the five second hits I prefer. (Talk about first world problems). That's actually the reason I got the 30W version; I'm perfectly happy with the 20W version other than I wished it went a little lower. (2) I do like the locking voltage/wattage buttons, but only because I now set the power to above the minimum on the 30W version. I always ran my 20W version at the minimum, so I just pushed the down button before I fired it, and if for some reason the power had been accidentally set higher, it would just go back to the minimum. I would NOT have purchased the 30W version just for the button lock (or the floating 510 pin or the SS 510 connector).
Here are some charts I made for myself when I got the iStick 20W, note that there are both voltage and wattage limits on both ends, and coil resistance plays a part in this. Also (most importantly to our less-is-better quest here), note also that the voltages/wattages in the chart below are based on mean voltage, not rms voltage. That means that all the numbers below are higher than we're used to, especially in the low end. As I mentioned previously, that means that when my 2.2Ω coil is shown as drawing 5 watts, it's really drawing between 7.5W and 8.0W. It also means that if I happened to use one of my 3.0Ω attys (I have a few, but I don't prefer them), I could set it to 3W (mean) and get a real (rms) 6W into it.
Eleaf IStick 20W Absolute Limits
1Ω - 3Ω coils
3v - 5.5v
3w - 20w
1.0Ω Coil (9w-20w)
3.0v = 9w = 3a
4.5v = 20w = 4.5a
1.5Ω Coil (6w-20w)
3.0v = 6w = 2a
5.5v = 20w = 3.7a
1.8Ω Coil (5w-17w)
3.0v = 5w = 1.7a
5.5v = 17w = 3a
2.0Ω Coil (4.5w-15w)
3.0v = 4.5w = 1.5a
5.5v = 15w = 2.75a
2.2Ω Coil (4w-13w)
3.0v = 4w = 1.4a
5.5v = 13w = 2.5a
2.5Ω Coil (3.6w-12w)
3.0v = 3.6w = 1.2a
5.5v = 12w = 2.2a
3.0Ω Coil (3w-10w)
3.0v = 3w = 1a
5.5v = 10w = 1.8a
I can provide you graphs of mean vs: rms for different resistance coils, if you like, but it gets even more complicated, due to the circuitry in the 20W version. The mean vs: rms curves are different when the battery is less than 2/3 full. Longer duration of the "on" pulse in the duty cycle when the input (battery) voltage is lower means that the difference between mean and rms gets smaller. Your half charged battery will be displaying more accurate (closer to rms) readings. Hopefully you're not too medicated when reading all of this; it's confusing enough as-is.
As far as testing the health of a battery, the best way is to charge it fully and discharge it fully while monitoring the voltage, current, and capacity.
If you're talking about eGo type batteries and other mods that have built in non-removable batteries, it's pretty much impossible to measure their discharge capacity (as you don't have access to the battery itself, and most mods have a timeout, which would make for a horrible few hours of pressing the button every 10 seconds). So with mods where you don't have access to the actual battery, the way to judge is to measure how much energy you put into the battery when charging it from empty to full. You can use one of those $10 USB gizmos I mentioned a few messages ago to do this. Run your eGo down until it stops firing your atty, then charge it up to full and read how many mAh you put into the battery. It should be about the same number that the battery is rated for (e.g., a 650mAh eGo twist should take about 650mAh to recharge it). The reason it's about the same, rather than more, is because even though the charging process isn't 100% efficient (meaning you would think you'd have to put more than 650mAh into a 650mAh rated battery), you aren't discharging the battery down to 2.5V before the eGo electronics shut you down, more like 3.2V, and battery manufacturers rate capacity down to 2.5V.
If you want to test, e.g., 18650 batteries, the best way to check is with an intelligent battery charger. I use sophisticated RC chargers which will allow me to charge and discharge multiple batteries while keeping a record of the whole process, including how much capacity the battery has and how much it takes to charge it back up. One of the chargers I use displays numerically on the charger itself and also hooks up to my computer to provide graphs and the like. The other one has a built in OLED screen that displays multi-color graphs natively. I don't have one, or know the particulars of, the Nitecore you have, but if it can discharge as well as charge, and can tell you how many mAh are used when charging and discharging, you can use it to evaluate your batteries.
As far as your Nightcore not charging a really dead battery while your "cheap" charger would, that depends on both the design of the charger and if the battery has a protection circuit board. It sounds like the Nitecore doesn't have a mode to deal with totally dead batteries. You have to slowly pulse the battery, watch for its voltage to suddenly increase, and keep a very close eye on its internal resistance. Once the battery gets above a certain voltage (maybe 2V?), the charger can do its normal thing. Pulsing a totally dead lithium battery is dangerous though, and any lithium battery that's been allowed to discharge to zero is likely to suck big time even if you can resurrect it.
That's interesting. I just put a 2.2Ω and a 2.9Ω atty on my iStick 20W and the 2.2Ω atty reads 3.0V/4.0W and the 2.9Ω atty reads 3.0V/3.1W. On my new iStick 30W, the 2.2Ω atty reads 3.3V/5W and the 2.9Ω atty reads 3.8V/5W. So maybe the chip in your Defender is NOT the same as the one in the iStick 20W! Note that you can't exceed any of the upper or lower voltage OR wattage ratings. The iStick 30W has different limits from the iStick 20W (beyond just the additional 10W available with the iStick 30W). Note that it has lower limits for both voltage and wattage. (But remember also that the 20W is mean volts and the 30W is rms volts and in reality the 30W actually can put out less than the 20W does!).
You are correct that there is no way your Defender can actually go to 1V without exceeding either the wattage or resistance limits. 1V delivering 5W requires a load of 0.2Ω, which is below the lower limit for its resistance.
I deliberately ordered my iStick 30W "naked". No eGo adapter, no USB cable, no charger. I have a zillion of those, don't need any more, and it saved me $3
Whew, that was a long one!
Due to the overwhelming success of the original iStick (20W), there are now a number of very small, very powerful regulated mods. ELeaf has added three more to the iStick line (the 10W mini, the 30W I just received, and a 50W that is shipping to vendors this week from China). There is the Defender you just received, which from all I've heard so far, uses the same chip as the iStick 20W, but has a different physical design, and perhaps a slightly higher capacity battery. The IPV Mini was recently released (that's the one you asked about that has five memory positions), as was one whose name escapes me at the moment that purports to have temperature control (ala the evolv DNA40). Note that the one whose name escapes me has not shipped yet, so no one has tested it yet. None of the new contenders goes lower in power/voltage though, they're all fighting to have more in the top end. More importantly, none of the new mini mods are as small and hand friendly as the iStick line, with the exception of the Defender you just got (which also has some advantages, such as the reversable eGo/510 connector). All of the rest of them, so far, are larger enough that they just don't provide the same experience. They don't fit the hand or the pocket as well. I enjoy the way my iStick 20W and 30W feel (wisecracks allowed). None of this would matter if the iSticks didn't work well; they all do. The 10W mini, which I picked up for a friend, is tiny, a delight to use, and way better than the VV Spinner it replaced!
If it makes you feel any better, after using the new iStick 30W for a day, there are only two things about it that I prefer to the old one. (1) It's not PWM (Pulse Width Modulated) anymore, and is calibrated in rms volts instead of mean volts. (Check out Todd's review, just posted. Phil Busardo's review will have the most technical detail, but he hasn't reviewed the iStick 30W yet). This means I can get a "real" 5 Watts out of it, rather than the 7.5W or so that's the true minimum for the 20W version. Most people are concerned with the top end, not the bottom end, but both you and I are not most people.
With about half of the different concentrates I use, I prefer (true rms) 5W-6W for the attys I use. 7W-8W is just a little more than I like, requiring me to take two second hits instead of the five second hits I prefer. (Talk about first world problems). That's actually the reason I got the 30W version; I'm perfectly happy with the 20W version other than I wished it went a little lower. (2) I do like the locking voltage/wattage buttons, but only because I now set the power to above the minimum on the 30W version. I always ran my 20W version at the minimum, so I just pushed the down button before I fired it, and if for some reason the power had been accidentally set higher, it would just go back to the minimum. I would NOT have purchased the 30W version just for the button lock (or the floating 510 pin or the SS 510 connector).Here are some charts I made for myself when I got the iStick 20W, note that there are both voltage and wattage limits on both ends, and coil resistance plays a part in this. Also (most importantly to our less-is-better quest here), note also that the voltages/wattages in the chart below are based on mean voltage, not rms voltage. That means that all the numbers below are higher than we're used to, especially in the low end. As I mentioned previously, that means that when my 2.2Ω coil is shown as drawing 5 watts, it's really drawing between 7.5W and 8.0W. It also means that if I happened to use one of my 3.0Ω attys (I have a few, but I don't prefer them), I could set it to 3W (mean) and get a real (rms) 6W into it.
Eleaf IStick 20W Absolute Limits
1Ω - 3Ω coils
3v - 5.5v
3w - 20w
1.0Ω Coil (9w-20w)
3.0v = 9w = 3a
4.5v = 20w = 4.5a
1.5Ω Coil (6w-20w)
3.0v = 6w = 2a
5.5v = 20w = 3.7a
1.8Ω Coil (5w-17w)
3.0v = 5w = 1.7a
5.5v = 17w = 3a
2.0Ω Coil (4.5w-15w)
3.0v = 4.5w = 1.5a
5.5v = 15w = 2.75a
2.2Ω Coil (4w-13w)
3.0v = 4w = 1.4a
5.5v = 13w = 2.5a
2.5Ω Coil (3.6w-12w)
3.0v = 3.6w = 1.2a
5.5v = 12w = 2.2a
3.0Ω Coil (3w-10w)
3.0v = 3w = 1a
5.5v = 10w = 1.8a
I can provide you graphs of mean vs: rms for different resistance coils, if you like, but it gets even more complicated, due to the circuitry in the 20W version. The mean vs: rms curves are different when the battery is less than 2/3 full. Longer duration of the "on" pulse in the duty cycle when the input (battery) voltage is lower means that the difference between mean and rms gets smaller. Your half charged battery will be displaying more accurate (closer to rms) readings. Hopefully you're not too medicated when reading all of this; it's confusing enough as-is.
As far as testing the health of a battery, the best way is to charge it fully and discharge it fully while monitoring the voltage, current, and capacity.
If you're talking about eGo type batteries and other mods that have built in non-removable batteries, it's pretty much impossible to measure their discharge capacity (as you don't have access to the battery itself, and most mods have a timeout, which would make for a horrible few hours of pressing the button every 10 seconds). So with mods where you don't have access to the actual battery, the way to judge is to measure how much energy you put into the battery when charging it from empty to full. You can use one of those $10 USB gizmos I mentioned a few messages ago to do this. Run your eGo down until it stops firing your atty, then charge it up to full and read how many mAh you put into the battery. It should be about the same number that the battery is rated for (e.g., a 650mAh eGo twist should take about 650mAh to recharge it). The reason it's about the same, rather than more, is because even though the charging process isn't 100% efficient (meaning you would think you'd have to put more than 650mAh into a 650mAh rated battery), you aren't discharging the battery down to 2.5V before the eGo electronics shut you down, more like 3.2V, and battery manufacturers rate capacity down to 2.5V.If you want to test, e.g., 18650 batteries, the best way to check is with an intelligent battery charger. I use sophisticated RC chargers which will allow me to charge and discharge multiple batteries while keeping a record of the whole process, including how much capacity the battery has and how much it takes to charge it back up. One of the chargers I use displays numerically on the charger itself and also hooks up to my computer to provide graphs and the like. The other one has a built in OLED screen that displays multi-color graphs natively. I don't have one, or know the particulars of, the Nitecore you have, but if it can discharge as well as charge, and can tell you how many mAh are used when charging and discharging, you can use it to evaluate your batteries.
As far as your Nightcore not charging a really dead battery while your "cheap" charger would, that depends on both the design of the charger and if the battery has a protection circuit board. It sounds like the Nitecore doesn't have a mode to deal with totally dead batteries. You have to slowly pulse the battery, watch for its voltage to suddenly increase, and keep a very close eye on its internal resistance. Once the battery gets above a certain voltage (maybe 2V?), the charger can do its normal thing. Pulsing a totally dead lithium battery is dangerous though, and any lithium battery that's been allowed to discharge to zero is likely to suck big time even if you can resurrect it.
That's interesting. I just put a 2.2Ω and a 2.9Ω atty on my iStick 20W and the 2.2Ω atty reads 3.0V/4.0W and the 2.9Ω atty reads 3.0V/3.1W. On my new iStick 30W, the 2.2Ω atty reads 3.3V/5W and the 2.9Ω atty reads 3.8V/5W. So maybe the chip in your Defender is NOT the same as the one in the iStick 20W! Note that you can't exceed any of the upper or lower voltage OR wattage ratings. The iStick 30W has different limits from the iStick 20W (beyond just the additional 10W available with the iStick 30W). Note that it has lower limits for both voltage and wattage. (But remember also that the 20W is mean volts and the 30W is rms volts and in reality the 30W actually can put out less than the 20W does!).
iStick 20W..........iStick 30W
1Ω - 3Ω coils......0.4Ω - 5.0Ω coils
3v - 5.5v...........2V - 8V
3W - 20W..........5W - 30W
1Ω - 3Ω coils......0.4Ω - 5.0Ω coils
3v - 5.5v...........2V - 8V
3W - 20W..........5W - 30W
You are correct that there is no way your Defender can actually go to 1V without exceeding either the wattage or resistance limits. 1V delivering 5W requires a load of 0.2Ω, which is below the lower limit for its resistance.
I deliberately ordered my iStick 30W "naked". No eGo adapter, no USB cable, no charger. I have a zillion of those, don't need any more, and it saved me $3
Whew, that was a long one!
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fernand
Well-Known Member
I just put The Defender on The Scope. And it's not calibrated in RMS, or Mean volts, because it's plain old DC it's putting out, and when they show 4.0 volts on the display, that's what they're putting out, according to meters and scope that I attached.
I didn't check over a range of atty resistances, just my 1.4 ohm Tobeco SvoeMesto Kayfun V4 copy, and my exclusive dripper coiled at 1.3 ohms on Fukushima organic cotton. I wouldn't calibrate the World Atomic clock off these puppies. As the voltage rises, when it claims 5.9 volts, my Fluke shows closer to 5.4. Like it mattered ... Close enough for me.
The circuit takes about 15 mS to ramp up, to overshoot, and settle in. I checked it briefly but nowhere did I see even an occluded (or high frequency) chopping or PWM, which is cool. Digitally regulated voltage generally starts out choppy, and it's pretty simple to filter such a PWM output to flat DC when you're pumping a few milliamps. But at several AMPs, as we have here, it's an accomplishment, because you can't rely on a series resistance to help create a filter (or you'd be getting a significant voltage drop and heating). Plus you don't have a lot of room for chokes and capacitors in these tiny boxettes. If the DNAs were all PWM output, this is a new generation.
So I'll just leave my first impression at somewhere between technically "impressed" and "amazed" for now. I've been vaping off this Defender since noon, between 14 and 20 watts, chainly though intermittently, and it's now past midnight. The battery shows half-empty. Not bad.
Is 5 watts low enough to warm the oil, and then switch to higher power to vape? Remains to be seen.
Seems like my Defender and the iStick His Todness reviewed are very VERY similar, same chip set, similar firmware you can see on the display, except the iStick 30W's is evidently a little newer, with the lock feature. But I'm not sure I even believe the 30 watts vs 25. I remember someone complained about the scroll speed from min to max being slow; just do it in Voltage mode, it's MUCH faster.
I didn't check over a range of atty resistances, just my 1.4 ohm Tobeco SvoeMesto Kayfun V4 copy, and my exclusive dripper coiled at 1.3 ohms on Fukushima organic cotton. I wouldn't calibrate the World Atomic clock off these puppies. As the voltage rises, when it claims 5.9 volts, my Fluke shows closer to 5.4. Like it mattered ... Close enough for me.
The circuit takes about 15 mS to ramp up, to overshoot, and settle in. I checked it briefly but nowhere did I see even an occluded (or high frequency) chopping or PWM, which is cool. Digitally regulated voltage generally starts out choppy, and it's pretty simple to filter such a PWM output to flat DC when you're pumping a few milliamps. But at several AMPs, as we have here, it's an accomplishment, because you can't rely on a series resistance to help create a filter (or you'd be getting a significant voltage drop and heating). Plus you don't have a lot of room for chokes and capacitors in these tiny boxettes. If the DNAs were all PWM output, this is a new generation.
So I'll just leave my first impression at somewhere between technically "impressed" and "amazed" for now. I've been vaping off this Defender since noon, between 14 and 20 watts, chainly though intermittently, and it's now past midnight. The battery shows half-empty. Not bad.
Is 5 watts low enough to warm the oil, and then switch to higher power to vape? Remains to be seen.
Seems like my Defender and the iStick His Todness reviewed are very VERY similar, same chip set, similar firmware you can see on the display, except the iStick 30W's is evidently a little newer, with the lock feature. But I'm not sure I even believe the 30 watts vs 25. I remember someone complained about the scroll speed from min to max being slow; just do it in Voltage mode, it's MUCH faster.
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Haywood
Onward Thru the Fog
From your description (and the use of a scope ), it's pretty obvious that the chip in your Defender is NOT the same as the chip in the iStick 20W. It sounds like the Defender chip is much closer to the iStick 30W's chip, which I'm delighted to hear, as filtered output (DC) is better than PWM. This also gets rid of the whole mean vs: rms stuff, and also means that the Defender can put out reasonably low power, if that's what one wants (as we do, in the appropriate circumstance).
I don't think I'll ever be using my iSticks at above 15W or so; I have a couple of 18650 monsters for that. I do have my eyes open for a new temp limited mod, using Ni or Ti wire, as my next adventure. I really don't want to spring for one of the "name" brands that currently use the evolv DNA40s, as I don't think they're worth the $200-$300 and up they go for. No one has actually received one of the China temp controlled mods yet, so I'm suspicious they really won't do what they're supposed to. Time will tell...
As to "Is 5 watts low enough to warm the oil, and then switch to higher power to vape? Remains to be seen.", I've been very happy vaping (non-liquid) concentrates at 5W, my default setting. I rarely turn the power up more than a watt or two beyond that. (I'm using a genuine JoyeTech 2.2Ω atty with its bridge removed).
I'm happy as a clam with my iSticks, though I am a little jealous of the reversible connector on the Defender.
btw, does the Nightcore charger have a readout with mAh? You can use that to evaluate your 18650 batts.
), it's pretty obvious that the chip in your Defender is NOT the same as the chip in the iStick 20W. It sounds like the Defender chip is much closer to the iStick 30W's chip, which I'm delighted to hear, as filtered output (DC) is better than PWM. This also gets rid of the whole mean vs: rms stuff, and also means that the Defender can put out reasonably low power, if that's what one wants (as we do, in the appropriate circumstance).I don't think I'll ever be using my iSticks at above 15W or so; I have a couple of 18650 monsters for that. I do have my eyes open for a new temp limited mod, using Ni or Ti wire, as my next adventure. I really don't want to spring for one of the "name" brands that currently use the evolv DNA40s, as I don't think they're worth the $200-$300 and up they go for. No one has actually received one of the China temp controlled mods yet, so I'm suspicious they really won't do what they're supposed to. Time will tell...
As to "Is 5 watts low enough to warm the oil, and then switch to higher power to vape? Remains to be seen.", I've been very happy vaping (non-liquid) concentrates at 5W, my default setting. I rarely turn the power up more than a watt or two beyond that. (I'm using a genuine JoyeTech 2.2Ω atty with its bridge removed).
I'm happy as a clam with my iSticks, though I am a little jealous of the reversible connector on the Defender.
btw, does the Nightcore charger have a readout with mAh? You can use that to evaluate your 18650 batts.
fernand
Well-Known Member
Six o' one, six o' the other. You got the lock feature, I got the reversible 510. I think we have nearly identical boxettes. Distilling oil into me noggin' at 5 watts is excellent, no complaints. I just wish The Defender dialed down to 2 or 3 watts, I'm after a specific pre-heat.
I'm very curious as to how they get flat DC out of a 10 amp buck-boost converter. My Defender's circuit board is hopefully not potted in epoxy, as it's clearly headed for the operating table one of these days, soon. But come to think of it, is it likely that the Chinese would erase part numbers, goop the board or use any of the other futile Intellectual Property obfuscation methods that they laugh at every day?
Speaking of witch, my wife, who's not an American beatch, and is feminine, young, pretty, devoted and helpful, has been sneakily observing my moves. I fear that, any day, she may challenge my sanity-preserving dominance. While we (together) fixed the thin plastic refrigerator shelf that (true to purpose) had cracked - in order to generate a $30 parts order - she betrayed a suspect familiarity with adhesives, offering that "white Gorilla Glue might be good for the task", and reaching for the dispenser. I silently went along, but it was as if an attending nun at a 15th century Inquisition had, while serving biscuits for the bishops, proposed a very specific schedule of tortures to extract a heretic's confession. Then, the coup de grace. She asked me to get her her own hot glue gun. Whoa. Soon she's going to be rooting Androids if I don't watch out!
I'm very curious as to how they get flat DC out of a 10 amp buck-boost converter. My Defender's circuit board is hopefully not potted in epoxy, as it's clearly headed for the operating table one of these days, soon. But come to think of it, is it likely that the Chinese would erase part numbers, goop the board or use any of the other futile Intellectual Property obfuscation methods that they laugh at every day?
Speaking of witch, my wife, who's not an American beatch, and is feminine, young, pretty, devoted and helpful, has been sneakily observing my moves. I fear that, any day, she may challenge my sanity-preserving dominance. While we (together) fixed the thin plastic refrigerator shelf that (true to purpose) had cracked - in order to generate a $30 parts order - she betrayed a suspect familiarity with adhesives, offering that "white Gorilla Glue might be good for the task", and reaching for the dispenser. I silently went along, but it was as if an attending nun at a 15th century Inquisition had, while serving biscuits for the bishops, proposed a very specific schedule of tortures to extract a heretic's confession. Then, the coup de grace. She asked me to get her her own hot glue gun. Whoa. Soon she's going to be rooting Androids if I don't watch out!
zebra
Vaper
Thanks for Info! Do you happen to know what seller he bought from on eBay and if he has specifically been using PureGold in them with no leakage or waste? Really appreciate info thanks again!!
fernand
Well-Known Member
Haywood
Onward Thru the Fog
http://www.eciggity.com/eleaf-istick-30w-battery/
Use "10percentoff" to get an additional discount down to about $31.49. Shipping was about $6 as I recall. I ordered it on Feb 2 (Mon) and had it Feb 5 (Thurs), from Hawaii to NYC!.
Capacity is mA times duration. Usually expressed as mAh or Ah. Your charger doesn't seem to support measuring capacity though, since the current will not remain constant throughout the charge period.
Use "10percentoff" to get an additional discount down to about $31.49. Shipping was about $6 as I recall. I ordered it on Feb 2 (Mon) and had it Feb 5 (Thurs), from Hawaii to NYC!.
Capacity is mA times duration. Usually expressed as mAh or Ah. Your charger doesn't seem to support measuring capacity though, since the current will not remain constant throughout the charge period.
fernand
Well-Known Member
Wow, that's a great price, thanks! Next one I get will be one of those, for now the Defender is fine, no complaints, very similar. And meanwhile my friend I was going to get some gear for says "i'm fine with what I got". And what's he got? Some eGo batteries and Vivi Nova tanks. I know, I know. 
But I'm not going out on a limb. Lessons learned: you can lead horses to water, but fuck 'em.
The Nitecore D4 not only doesn't show cumulative or average mA, it has other issues. Like refusing to charge some batteries that charge fine on other chargers. They shorted me on accessories too, it goes back. Do you know of a charger that calculates a battery's capacity?
But I'm not going out on a limb. Lessons learned: you can lead horses to water, but fuck 'em.
The Nitecore D4 not only doesn't show cumulative or average mA, it has other issues. Like refusing to charge some batteries that charge fine on other chargers. They shorted me on accessories too, it goes back. Do you know of a charger that calculates a battery's capacity?
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