jimsmith90210
Who Is Nate?
I'm in the exact same boat, I'm super jazzed. I ordered the m22 and the bubbler and plan on buying the mod as soon as its available.
AVS m22
- Thread starter Deleted Member 1643
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I'm in the exact same boat, I'm super jazzed. I ordered the m22 and the bubbler and plan on buying the mod as soon as its available.
I have a TAF Sai and it's pretty good, but this sounds like a significant upgrade. I have never used or owned a Molecule, partly because it seemed more suited to DIYers into building coils etc.
What gives me pause about the M22 is that list of parts and tools included. My personal "parts list" includes declining eyesight and, hopefully temporary, manual dexterity issues.
Will this thing require dealing with teeny tiny screws and wires on the reg?
What gives me pause about the M22 is that list of parts and tools included. My personal "parts list" includes declining eyesight and, hopefully temporary, manual dexterity issues.
Will this thing require dealing with teeny tiny screws and wires on the reg?
Smoke1ForMe
Well-Known Member
How much was the bubbler? Wondering if I should add it now or wait until their mod comes out.
Deleted Member 1643
Well-Known Member
The screws are not as small as those on the original molecule. Accidentally ordered screws for their Boaz e-cig atty, which are the same. They're as easy to work with as they come. You won't need to remove the screws from the deck, just loosen them.
Could never DIY without one of these:
Deleted Member 1643
Well-Known Member
It's hard to say without access to the atty, but the ESCC (Energized Silicon Carbide Crucible) should be especially easy to use. Routine cleaning can probably be done from the top with a cotton swab. You may want to disassemble for a thorough cleaning from time to time.
Or to compare with the big coil dish. Almost as excited about that. The magnifier light is indispensable for coil wrapping and mounting and countless other things.
Or to compare with the big coil dish. Almost as excited about that. The magnifier light is indispensable for coil wrapping and mounting and countless other things.
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jimsmith90210
Who Is Nate?
That’s pretty decent
Deleted Member 1643
Well-Known Member
Any 3D printer enthusiasts? Want to make a docking base to support DT's fabulous HydraTube.
Something along these lines, but with the mod's controls exposed, air-flow, whatever. (The image is an adapter for your car's cup-holder to hold your mod.) Fortunately, the mod's atomizer contact is opposite the controls, so it can probably be centered under the glass.
Something along these lines, but with the mod's controls exposed, air-flow, whatever. (The image is an adapter for your car's cup-holder to hold your mod.) Fortunately, the mod's atomizer contact is opposite the controls, so it can probably be centered under the glass.
Smoke1ForMe
Well-Known Member
That’s pretty decent
Yeah might need to add that.
Herbie Hancock
The 60 Second Assasin
I can not believe how quiet this thread has been. It was on FIRE earlier that’s what prompted me to jump in on the pre buy. Literally since that day I have heard nothing new. Is everyone in the same boat as me? In other words. There is nothing left to say... sounds perfect. Now we need to just wait...
Smoke1ForMe
Well-Known Member
Yep just patiently waiting. I see the ship date keeps getting pushed back for new orders. Hoping mine still arrives around 8/31. Really excited to try this thing out.
Deleted Member 1643
Well-Known Member
Well, if you insist...
The legs of the ESCC are gold-plated.
There's an Easter Egg in the mod software.
And AVS sent out some m22 + ceramic dish prototypes. Didn't get one, but got a Boaz RDA prototype. That's mainly an e-cig dripper/squonker, but it comes with ceramic inserts for concentrate use.
Since we're sharing some info...
I can confirm he legs are indeed gold plated and the mod has a cool easter egg. I can tell you the mod itself was designed in-house from scratch (right down to the selection of individual components on the circuit board). I can also say the tc requirements of the SiC cup are such that it is unlikely other mods will be able to cope. Mapping a tfr curve, even an ntc curve, won't do it.
I'll have more to say about the whole package, once it arrives (hopefully m22 release week) . Particularly about the mod/m22 combined ....
I can confirm he legs are indeed gold plated and the mod has a cool easter egg. I can tell you the mod itself was designed in-house from scratch (right down to the selection of individual components on the circuit board). I can also say the tc requirements of the SiC cup are such that it is unlikely other mods will be able to cope. Mapping a tfr curve, even an ntc curve, won't do it.
I'll have more to say about the whole package, once it arrives (hopefully m22 release week) . Particularly about the mod/m22 combined ....
I don’t really understand why ... there has to be a pattern ... what variables does the AVS mod use that the others can’t to perform TC?Since we're sharing some info...
I can confirm he legs are indeed gold plated and the mod has a cool easter egg. I can tell you the mod itself was designed in-house from scratch (right down to the selection of individual components on the circuit board). I can also say the tc requirements of the SiC cup are such that it is unlikely other mods will be able to cope. Mapping a tfr curve, even an ntc curve, won't do it.
I'll have more to say about the whole package, once it arrives (hopefully m22 release week) . Particularly about the mod/m22 combined ....
Anyways ... anxiously waiting! Guess we’ll be playing around with our DNA mods and whatnot anyways while we wait for the AVS mod to be available (or will the mod also be shipping around the end of the month?)
I can only say that the standard approach used in all mods to date monitors coil resistance only. It calculates what the heater resistance will be at the temperature set on the mod and tries to hit and maintain that resistance. With semiconductor materials, resistance doesn't change in the same ways as conductors. The differences go beyond positive and negative temperature coefficients. These unspecified electrical properties (can't be making it easier for lazy competitors. Sry) can't be monitored by any other mod made since they don't have the required hardware, and can't be inferred from the resistance behavior. As a retired electronic engineer, I've wished an ohm meter *could* do that trick.
This is not to suggest that pulsing in power mode won't work well. If the cup heats as fast as claimed, that could work very well.
Edit: the mods should ship after the m22. But I have no info on availability. Also, since I've got 3 DNA c mods, a Yihi, a voopoo, and a couple JoyeLeafWis mods - you can bet I'll be playing with them along with the m22.
This is not to suggest that pulsing in power mode won't work well. If the cup heats as fast as claimed, that could work very well.
Edit: the mods should ship after the m22. But I have no info on availability. Also, since I've got 3 DNA c mods, a Yihi, a voopoo, and a couple JoyeLeafWis mods - you can bet I'll be playing with them along with the m22.
So would a TFR curve be of no use? Or would it still work like with the quartz bucket as a way to approximate temp control?I can only say that the standard approach used in all mods to date monitors coil resistance only. It calculates what the heater resistance will be at the temperature set on the mod and tries to hit and maintain that resistance. With semiconductor materials, resistance doesn't change in the same ways as conductors. The differences go beyond positive and negative temperature coefficients. These unspecified electrical properties (can't be making it easier for lazy competitors. Sry) can't be monitored by any other mod made since they don't have the required hardware, and can't be inferred from the resistance behavior. As a retired electronic engineer, I've wished an ohm meter *could* do that trick.
This is not to suggest that pulsing in power mode won't work well. If the cup heats as fast as claimed, that could work very well.
Edit: the mods should ship after the m22. But I have no info on availability. Also, since I've got 3 DNA c mods, a Yihi, a voopoo, and a couple JoyeLeafWis mods - you can bet I'll be playing with them along with the m22.
Just curious ... I’ll be playing as well
Edit: I think I understand what you are saying now a little bit better ... the "Energized Silicon Carbide Crucible" is actually a SiC semiconductor. SiC semiconductor's, unlike traditional silicon ones which are limited to about 150C. So in this case the SiC semiconductor is being used to generate heat, as opposed to as a semiconductor which just dissipates heat better then traditional ones; very cool.
So I'm guessing the mod doesn't operate like traditional mods, and instead likely does some type of PWM (or slower like a PID where turns it on/off for a percentage of every second based on duty cycle). I'm guessing with the SiC semiconductor it likely responds in a reliable way, and so temp control can be managed. Being that SiC heats so quickly and being an actual semiconductor, ambient temperature and whatnot probably don't affect it too much ... (anyways ... really just thinking out loud about how this might work ... very cool anyways!)
Edit Edit: All that just being said, there may be a lot more to it as well ... but ... good chance Replay in power mode will actually work better with this SiC bucket than any other bucket style devices (due to the fact that it will likely be so responsive ... and quite possibly responsive in a reliable fashion much less affected by prior heat cycles or any ambient temperature changes, material, etc.)
Good chance I'll be buying their mod too now that I know a bit more about it ... and/or if I can figure out what it's doing maybe I'll have to write myself some software ... as this stuff is fascinating to me and implementing PID algorithms and whatnot is always a good time
Edit Edit Edit: I wonder about the possibility of expanding this to a 30mm size eventually? Be pretty cool to have a 30mm ESCC with a mechanism for use in a rig ... I wonder if the length of leads comes in to play much here ... if it would cause issues with longer leads for temp control ... (hard to say without understanding more of what is going on). Would be cool if you could have 6" to 6' leads to connect your energized bucket to a controller for a desktop model (a model with an ESCC inside a quartz bucket of some kind
)
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@JCat a couple of years ago we experimented with a Silicon Carbide atomizer, during that time I came across a few old papers about using SiC as a highly accurate thermistor and I believe it had something to do with overlaying metal on the SiC.
Could also be something as simple as a diode thermometer with (what looks to be) that metal strip being a known resistance.
Could also be something as simple as a diode thermometer with (what looks to be) that metal strip being a known resistance.
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Edit Edit Edit: I wonder about the possibility of expanding this to a 30mm size eventually? Be pretty cool to have a 30mm ESCC with a mechanism for use in a rig ... I wonder if the length of leads comes in to play much here ... if it would cause issues with longer leads for temp control ... (hard to say without understanding more of what is going on). Would be cool if you could have 6" to 6' leads to connect your energized bucket to a controller for a desktop model (a model with an ESCC inside a quartz bucket of some kind
There's a rig adapter coming
I also heard their may be a 26mm version of the atomizer at some point
Only 2 pins though ... so I don't think you could pass the heating current, and get a thermistor reading using just the 2 pins? And above @Olde7 alludes the fact that it doesn't just use resistance ... I'm not sure what the other parameters are that can be derived from the 2 pins ...
I'm a software developer though, so what do I know! (with some electronics knowledge though
)
@JCat I wasn't speaking of normal current shunt monitoring that most mods use to calculate resistance.
There is a pretty common and simple electronics trick in that you can use any diode (semiconductor) in a circuit as a temperature sensor as long as you know the bias, it is pretty common to use in-die on CPUs. I have used the Texas Instruments lm 95235 in a design before which called for something similar.
The picture posted with the gold contacts just brings to mind some Schottky diodes we looked at not too long ago for a customer who needed a high power application, some of the newer Diodes are basically Silicon Carbide with vacuum deposited gold layers.
Anyways, I am rambling...
There is a pretty common and simple electronics trick in that you can use any diode (semiconductor) in a circuit as a temperature sensor as long as you know the bias, it is pretty common to use in-die on CPUs. I have used the Texas Instruments lm 95235 in a design before which called for something similar.
The picture posted with the gold contacts just brings to mind some Schottky diodes we looked at not too long ago for a customer who needed a high power application, some of the newer Diodes are basically Silicon Carbide with vacuum deposited gold layers.
Anyways, I am rambling...
So there you have it ... that seems likely then ... that the semiconductor is being used both as an element and a temperature sensor--so that would be why the current mods wouldn't work as-is ... they only really allow for monitoring resistance and adjusting accordingly (by using a TCR value or TFR material curve)
Using SiC semiconductors as heating elements might end up being a new standard ... I could likely see a way to use this where you create a 510 convection style herb vape as well, which wouldn't have issues with things getting red-hot, and would likely have better temp control/monitoring than current solutions that depend on coil material and TCR/TFR (now I'm rambling
)