Ascent Vaporizer by DaVinci

[sickmanfraud]

Obviously this thread is peppered with nuggets of gold. Here are my top tips..

1. Get some glass spacers (they also remove the need to screen the bottom of the oven)
2. Get some glass pipe screens (flowers) and mix them in with your load
3. Use a screen on top of your herb once oven is filled - ensures no particles enter your mouth.
4. Keep the stem clean as it clogs up real quick due to how small the small holes are.

Hope this helps, and more importantly helps you get the most out of your vape.

Instead of a screen on top, I usually put a spacer, flat side down on the top. If particulates are still a problem you can always put a thin wisp of cotton on to of the top spacer.

Save the cotton after enough uses there are folks who vape the cotton straight. When I clean my vape stems I soak and wring all of the useful stuff into the basis of an ABV tincture.

Temperature wise, I usually use 185 C 195 C and 205 C each for five minutes. You can raise ir lower the temps and expand or contract the time to fit your needs.

There are times I will stop after the 185 C and cool down the load. Then I start over at 185 C a second time and got to 195 - 205.

The taste is a bit worse the second time, but not terrible.

 

[1DMF]

Instead of a screen on top, I usually put a spacer, flat side down on the top. If particulates are still a problem you can always put a thin wisp of cotton on to of the top spacer.

I don't think you could fit two spacers a few flowers and herb in the oven, it's big , but it aint no Tardis.

However, I do believe this might be possible if you don't use a stock stem and use something like @Ed's TnT :

As the top spacer would take the stock stem cavity as this stem is a straight tube at the oven end.

I've not tried it yet, but I will as I have that stem.

@sickmanfraud do you use 2 x spacers bottom and top? how much herb?

 

[Ricardo]

I love my Ascent If your grind is really fine (and I believe this is the most effective method - more direct contact with oven base and walls), then some product may sift out. A screen seems like a good idea but I think the design requires some airflow.
Yes, it heats up fast and if you're not sipping on it then I guess you're wasting weed, so I use just a pinch and take 7 or 8 long, slow draws on it, shut it down and take another couple. 195C (383F) is my personal sweet spot - all the flavour is there plus the head rush and sustained high... it's all down to personal preference of course. For group sessions just load her up and pass the dutchie pon the left hand side (I say).

 

[Ed's TnT]

However, I do believe this might be possible if you don't use a stock stem and use something like @Ed's TnT :

As the top spacer would take the stock stem cavity as this stem is a straight tube at the oven end.

I've not tried it yet, but I will as I have that stem.

Good morning, ah yes with these two stems as you said the larger replaces the glass upper stem and the smaller replaces the inner glass stem. The neat thing about the smaller inner is that it has a single larger somewhat bore hole all the way through so its a clean unobstructed air path. You will see the lip at the bottom of the smaller inner stem, this is placed up into the unit just like the glass piece with the triangle shaped filter end, the small lip is what holds it in place, I send a few 1/2" SS fine mesh screens with this set. Once you have inserted the inner stem, you can take one of the screens and slightly fold it over onto itself, not a lot but just a little, you can push the screen over the lip at the bottom of the stem and it is held in place by the rubber grommet area above the oven. I use these screens for almost all my various pieces and have heard nothing but great reviews of how well they filter out the small minute particles. I feel this is a nice upgrade from the glass which we all know doesnt take a fall well at all. Cleaning is simple and easy, you will never ever soak these in any liquid, just simply dip a cotton swab in high proof alcohol, squeeze out the excess then swab out the inside of larger upper stem, dip a bristled pipe cleaner the same way, squeeze out the excess as well then push through the small inner stem, let both dry and you are good to go. I use Everclear for such maintenance. I hope this is helpful and if there is anything else I can answer pls just ask. I wish you all the best and many blessings to you all in the new year!

 

[OF]

Sorry if this is already in the thread, couldn't find it: Can someone w/ calipers tell me the OD and ID of the standard glass stems? Hoping for something close to 11mm OD, 8mm ID, so I can repurpose to make a slightly longer Firewood 3.0 mouthpiece.

9.0 X 6.8mm on this one, sorry.

OF

 

[KeroZen]

Off-topic: I'm using an Ascent upper glass straw to extend my Firewood 2.1 mouthpiece. It goes short original mouthpiece > silicone tubing > ascent straw, and allows to effectively cool down the vapor to acceptable (usable I should say?) levels.

 

[sickmanfraud]

[QUOTE="1DMF, post: 902464, member: 26897"]@sickmanfraud do you use 2 x spacers bottom and top? how much herb?[/QUOTE]

The first and only time I tried to use a spacer on the bottom it broke.

Also, I like to tamp down the down the load a bit, can't do that with glas spacer underneath (in case you are wondering I did NOT tamp down with the spacer on bottom).

I think it was @OF who explained the thermodynamics of the bowl and heating. If I remember correctly, the oven heats the bottom of the bowl and a spacer over the top acts like a heat sink.

 

[OF]

I think it was @OF who explained the thermodynamics of the bowl and heating. If I remember correctly, the oven heats the bottom of the bowl and a spacer over the top acts like a heat sink.

Actually I think I might be innocent this time. The bottom of the bowl is not heated. The walls are. There are no heatsinks in the classic sense in play, really, heatsinks remove heat from the system (like the heatsink in your computer that draws heat out of the processor and transfers it to the air and out of the way). Or a spoon in a cup of coffee cooling it.

In Ascent the walls are at very well controlled temperature. Over time conduction spreads this temperature through the load reaching equilibrium at your selected temperature where it sits until you hit it. The cold air quickly cools the load and since the replacement path through the glass walls into the load is 'slow' no useful heat is added to the load once the hit started. I measured as much as 100F drop in the center on a heavy hit, clearly no vapor is happening at 290F (I set it to 390 IIRC). All the heat to support the hit has to be in the load beforehand, which is why the glass flower or spacers work. They store more heat. And even though they take up valuable herb space doing in (less actual THC in the load) they more than make up for it with thicker deliveries.

This also means you want to sip rather than honk on it (less air to heat) and give it a long time between hits to recover heat to the center of the load.

OF

 

[sickmanfraud]

Actually I think I might be innocent this time. The bottom of the bowl is not heated. The walls are. There are no heatsinks in the classic sense in play, really, heatsinks remove heat from the system (like the heatsink in your computer that draws heat out of the processor and transfers it to the air and out of the way). Or a spoon in a cup of coffee cooling it.

In Ascent the walls are at very well controlled temperature. Over time conduction spreads this temperature through the load reaching equilibrium at your selected temperature where it sits until you hit it. The cold air quickly cools the load and since the replacement path through the glass walls into the load is 'slow' no useful heat is added to the load once the hit started. I measured as much as 100F drop in the center on a heavy hit, clearly no vapor is happening at 290F (I set it to 390 IIRC). All the heat to support the hit has to be in the load beforehand, which is why the glass flower or spacers work. They store more heat. And even though they take up valuable herb space doing in (less actual THC in the load) they more than make up for it with thicker deliveries.

This also means you want to sip rather than honk on it (less air to heat) and give it a long time between hits to recover heat to the center of the load.

OF

I'm sorry for the mistake.

Several questions:

Would a spacer on the bottom add to the heat retention?

How would a spacer on the bottom effect the temp probe?

Are you familiar with a website called whatsyourvapetemp ? They seem to say that the Ascent keeps its temp pretty steady.

 

[OF]

Would a spacer on the bottom add to the heat retention?

How would a spacer on the bottom effect the temp probe?

Are you familiar with a website called whatsyourvapetemp ? They seem to say that the Ascent keeps its temp pretty steady.

No problem, having a bit of fun, the original question was a good one.

Yes, aside from reducing the load size, heat retention is the idea. Spacers don't work quite as well at this as the glass flowers (since they are better distributed through the load and have more surface area to rapidly transfer heat.

No, it should not. The probe is reading the temperature of the walls, basically.

Sorry, don't know them. They are IMO partially right, IMO Ascent has astounding accuracy and excellent stability. It regulates the temperature better than any of the (few) other vapes I've tested for this. IMO a true credit to sound design, testing and construction.

The links for my original posts have 'died' but here (with a different account) is Nigel's unit under test in 'standby' waiting for the nest hit, hard to ask for better performance?

Here's how I rigged the sensor:

The sensor is the tiny bead on the end of the wires coming 'up' through the bottom hole

This is what happens in a typical hit (which is why the glass flowers work so well):

at 40 degree drop happens in a second or so as the hit starts and clearly means that part of the load is not longer at proper temperature and 'working' for you. A heavy hit can drive that core temperature down 100F or more.

FWIW, here's what's left of that initial report:
http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/ascent-vaporizer-by-davinci.9885/page-111#post-459922

Like I said, this series of experiments led to the glass flowers and spacers to increase production with smaller amounts of herb.

Regards,

OF

 

[sickmanfraud]

No problem, having a bit of fun, the original question was a good one.

Yes, aside from reducing the load size, heat retention is the idea. Spacers don't work quite as well at this as the glass flowers (since they are better distributed through the load and have more surface area to rapidly transfer heat.

No, it should not. The probe is reading the temperature of the walls, basically.

Sorry, don't know them. They are IMO partially right, IMO Ascent has astounding accuracy and excellent stability. It regulates the temperature better than any of the (few) other vapes I've tested for this. IMO a true credit to sound design, testing and construction.

The links for my original posts have 'died' but here (with a different account) is Nigel's unit under test in 'standby' waiting for the nest hit, hard to ask for better performance?

Here's how I rigged the sensor:

The sensor is the tiny bead on the end of the wires coming 'up' through the bottom hole

This is what happens in a typical hit (which is why the glass flowers work so well):

at 40 degree drop happens in a second or so as the hit starts and clearly means that part of the load is not longer at proper temperature and 'working' for you. A heavy hit can drive that core temperature down 100F or more.

FWIW, here's what's left of that initial report:
http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/ascent-vaporizer-by-davinci.9885/page-111#post-459922

Like I said, this series of experiments led to the glass flowers and spacers to increase production with smaller amounts of herb.

Regards,

OF

Thanks for the info. Happy New Year!!

 

[OF]

Thanks for the info. Happy New Year!!

You're welcome. And likewise.

One thing sure, the New Year promises anything but dull.......

OF

 

[sickmanfraud]

You're welcome. And likewise.

One thing sure, the New Year promises anything but dull.......

OF

Based on where we live all we want is dull, quiet, safe. My guess is it will get worse before it gets better.

 

[Davinci_vaporizer]

Would a spacer on the bottom add to the heat retention?

Yes it would! The spacer will take some time to heat up and add total mass to material in direct contact with the heat source. This will effect heat up time and battery life, but will also help heat retention. By the way, the spacer on the top or bottom will have pretty much the same effect in this regard, vapor production might differ.

How would a spacer on the bottom effect the temp probe?

No, it should not. The probe is reading the temperature of the walls, basically.

I would think it would. The probe sits in the little foot of the bowl. With the spacer situated at the bottom of the bowl, that glass is coming into direct contact with that little foot. It will steal the heat away from the probe area. The good thing is, the glass will not get hotter than your set temperature. Because it will have all been heated at the same time, the bowl shouldn't overheat it just may take longer to read your set temperature.

For the record, this heat transfer also occurs all over the bowl effecting heat up time, (like said above) so don't get confused and think it's just because of the ceramic foot. The entire surface area of the spacer is effecting this. Thermally less efficient than flowers for that reason, but in our opinion much easier to use than several scolding pointy pieces of glass.

 

[WakeAndVape]

but in our opinion much easier to use than several scolding pointy pieces of glass.

That's fair...but the glass flowers aren't THAT scary ...lol

A quick dump on a tray and they're cool in 30 seconds.

They actually increase cloud production and because you can use as few or as many as you like, it is much more versatile for those interested in conservation.

In all honesty I believe most ascent users on the thread prefer the glass flowers.
...I could be wrong though?

Maybe you can design micro - marble spacers. I would buy those.

 

[OF]

That's fair...but the glass flowers aren't THAT scary ...lol

I'm with you there. Where's your sense of adventure? Do you think Louis and Clark were haunted by fear of tiny hot pieces of glass?

Or as Radar O'Riley said in Mash, 'we don't fear scorching glass flowers in combat'......or something like that.

I like both, depending on mood. For myself (and I think others) fiddling with the gear (messing with flowers spread through the load) can be part of the ritual. Then sometimes, like right now, the spacers are faster/easier. I'm sure it won't be long until I'm back loading out of the other mint tin, the one with the flowers.

There are two basic functions here, I think. In terms of reducing the needed load I think spacers have the advantage. You just can't pack enough flowers in there to reduce the herb volume as much as 'right side up/upside down spacers. When it comes to flat out performance the flowers get the nod since they can have more glass surface area contacting weed and the heat transfer dynamics are such that surface area wins, thickness (like in the spacer) is no real advantage since the heat can move trough the thicker glass to the surface fast enough to get into the hit. 'The reservoir (of heat) doesn't get emptied much'.

I'd best get some backup spacers, I keep dropping the top one unloading (go figure....), sooner or later I'll loose it at this rate.

OF

 

[WakeAndVape]

sooner or later I'll loose it at this rate.

My rate has already resulted in a loss.

Oh, wait. Nevermind...we're talking about spacers and not minds.

I wonder if a davinci spacer without walls would have the same thermal properties as the glass spacers.

You could stack thin layers of strains in your oven like a gourmet layer cake...

If the holes were slightly offset it could produce a slight draw resistance, that seems like it would also help generating clouds?

...see I'm lost already.

 

[Davinci_vaporizer]

My rate has already resulted in a loss.

Oh, wait. Nevermind...we're talking about spacers and not minds.

I wonder if a davinci spacer without walls would have the same thermal properties as the glass spacers.

You could stack thin layers of strains in your oven like a gourmet layer cake...

If the holes were slightly offset it could produce a slight draw resistance, that seems like it would also help generating clouds?

...see I'm lost already.

Taking away material would mean it takes less heat energy from the bowl but also wouldn't retain as much heat due to the loss of material to retain the heat? Hope that makes sense.

 

[Lutin malin]

Hi guys!
Happy new year to you all!

OF:How can you say the Ascent has excellent stability and then say that temperature can drop 100deg. during a hit?
Doesn't it turn heating on when it senses the temperature going down?
It sounds like it's wasting goodies while turned ON and not in use, and then becomes rather useless while inhaling, lol.
Have you tried metal beads-spacers-flowers-whatnots? How do they compare to glass?
If more thermal inertia is necessary for proper functioning, how about a nut in the center of the bowl, on which one would screw a stainless steel post (perhaps with 2-6 fins). Hope you can picture it...
That would make it much more convenient than loose glass bits IMO and would also solve my daily issue of almost losing the metal screen I put at the bottom of the bowl, for I would screw the thing through one of the screen's holes.
I'm thinking in terms of improving the design here, not really a diy user-end solution. Drilling the ceramic bowl sounds like a pricey gamble...

Now, I came here to ask: could someone explain the ins and outs of the motion sensing feature?
If the motion sensor only works in timer mode (as the user manual suggests), why does my Ascent stop heating after a while (in basic mode)? The coffee cup disappears and temperature goes down.

Thanks!

 

[WakeAndVape]

why does my Ascent stop heating after a while (in basic mode)? The coffee cup disappears and temperature goes down.

Auto shutoff? I believe it's 10 minutes.

 

[OF]

OF:How can you say the Ascent has excellent stability and then say that temperature can drop 100deg. during a hit?
Doesn't it turn heating on when it senses the temperature going down?
It sounds like it's wasting goodies while turned ON and not in use, and then becomes rather useless while inhaling, lol.
Have you tried metal beads-spacers-flowers-whatnots? How do they compare to glass?

It's easy to say, because I reported what I found. Stability in idle temperature control is entirely different than how it responds to a hit. Your car's cruse control can hold highway speed quite well but slow down on a hill, right? Same thing.

Where most temperature controlled vapes I've tested 'hunt' (temperature goes up, heater turns off, temperature drops, heater turns on), Ascent does not. It works by 'throttling back' the heat, keeping just enough power to make up for losses, like a car cruse control but unlike your home heater. More over, when you dial up say 400F that's exactly what you end up with, not a temperature that shifts up to say 405F before drifting down to say 390F as it cools again.

Don't confuse accuracy with stability, two different things.

No, nothing (or very little) is wasted. This has been discussed many times in vairous threads, the 'good stuff' simply condenses again inside and waits. Like a damp house, you need to move air through it to remove the vapor. Terpenes might escape, but guys have reported stem vapes still giving effective hits from loads left overnight. Not to worry, just enjoy it, it does work effectively.

Yes, metal will work. Potentially better than glass (although SS is a poor choice amongst metals) but that violates the 'all glass vapor path' mantra so important to many. I experimented with SS screens (whole and pieces in my tests, the glass flowers easily won out on several fronts.

Yes, of course it responds to the drop in temperature but like the car on a hill analogy it's not able to overpower the loss in a realistic way since it takes too long for heat to move from the warmer heater to the load (called 'lag time' in the trade).

One type of control (the DV and your car for instance) uses what's called PID control where the output level of the "Process variable" (temperature control) is changed over a range in response to the running error between the output (result) and ideal:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PID_controller

Setpoint control OTOH, has only 'on or off' control and responds to being 'out of range' using a 'deadband' where it's supposed to be. Your home, with the thermostat set to say 70F might cycle from 'too hot' (say 72F where the heater cuts off) and 'too cold', say 68F where the heater is turned on again. Most vapes do this, it's simpler and generally just as effective as we see in the vapes in use. Whether your home heater is on or off at 70F depends on what happened before, unlike the PID version where it's 'partially on' (but changing) the entire time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Setpoint_(control_system)

PID controls generally never 'turn off' unless you seriously overshoot. Since they need time to respond (called 'resets' in the trade). Your car only closes the throttle off when it's going too fast (like downhill). And they can, as best they can (and some 'learn') attempt to predict the future and throttle back early (taking advantage of 'stored energy') to control overshoot. If you look inside a mechanical thermostat for home use you'll find a tiny heater that tries to mimic this by locally heating the thermostat a bit more while the fire is on, this is called an "anticipator', FWIW. It gets the heater to cut power a bit early so the stored heat inside the unit will cause the house to 'coast up' to the target. The longer the heater has been on, the more 'false heat' is added since the heater contains more energy. Fun stuff, not as simple as it seems?

BTW, the 'real name' for the deadband idea is Hysteresis.......a great word for crossword puzzles perhaps but one not often used in polite company. It can get 'pretty knotty':
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hysteresis

It's a lot to understand for sure, but that's how it works. The proof is in the results, easily shown by experiment. I recommend taking it on faith and exploiting the advantage to most. Experiment with both flowers and spacers and see what works best for you. I think you'll find, like everyone (?) who has tried glass inserts it does improve things a lot. You get to decide if the effort is worth it to you, but you need to try personally first?

BTW Assent could use Setpoint control too, of course, it just wouldn't work as well. Kudos to their engineering.

Regards to all surviving all that.

OF

 

[vapethirty]

Just received my Ascent. It is a beautiful machine. A few questions: why is the bottom open? My product was sifting out. I put a small screen on the bottom to help keep it together.

I had read about this and was planning on starting out doing the same thing. Just ordered mine, it shipped out today. Will know more about this soon : )

Really curious about usage at this point. I ordered the glass spacers but they appear to be not quite that popular now that I am reading through some of the more recent posts in this thread. has anyone had luck with the glass spacers? I was planning on using screens right away at the bottom and if possible, somewhere in the primary vapor path. I will see how it works but I saw a lot of the photos of used units with a lot of particulate matter in the first glass section of the vapor pathway. Are there any popular ways to prevent this? It seems in part that the sipping technique is a good start, light draws. Still, I like to figure out a way to screen the incoming particulate as best as possible. Can't wait to try this one out!

 

[Lutin malin]

Thanks for the interesting read OF. After a few minutes at 190 degrees C, I would think there has been some degradation or oxidation of goodies and some of the THC turned to CBN. Psychoactive and sedative but not THC... There's effectiveness and there's quality right?

Regarding metal, would you recommend aluminum then? It doesn't have much inertia does it? Copper? silver is out of the question!

Thanks wakeandvape, I had hoped the double battery freed me from auto shutoff...I'll have to accept it's for the better!

Cheers

 

[OF]

Thanks for the interesting read OF.

Regarding metal, would you recommend aluminum then? It doesn't have much inertia does it? Copper? silver is out of the question!

Yer welcome, glad you found it useful. Otherwise I'm wasting both our time........

Good question. You want, I think, to look at two things. First, 'specific heat', 'how many calories does it take to raise a gram a degree C?' coupled with density (how much volume does that gram occupy). What you really want is specific heat per volume since weight isn't the issue?

Secondly there's 'thermal conductivity', the bigger the number the better and thicker the mass can be (since the heat moves faster), meaning extreme shapes, like the flowers, aren't as important.

Copper might be a good call, but Copper Oxide can have a 'taste'. Or was that Cupric Oxide? IIRC there are two common ones, one more 'tasty than the other'. Silver, really is a good one to look at I think. The cheapest old dime in the coin shop cut up might be just the ticket? They must be cheap enough, a gram of Silver is worth less than a buck?

Another fun idea is maybe the beads from auto catalytic converters (I'd use new ones.....). They're Aluminum but porous. More importantly they have a thin coating of Platinum. The genuine stuff, inert as can be, no chance of taste issues. Not much on each one, so they should be cheap enough if you can find the source........ the point would be where to get a few.......

Fun idea. Good luck with it.

OF

 

[Davinci_vaporizer]

Doesn't it turn heating on when it senses the temperature going down?
It sounds like it's wasting goodies while turned ON and not in use, and then becomes rather useless while inhaling, lol.
Have you tried metal beads-spacers-flowers-whatnots? How do they compare to glass?

The heater does activate as soon as it realizes there is a temperature drop. The problem is while you are inhaling, you aren't inhaling for a second then stopping you are inhaling for several, possibly even dozens of seconds so it's difficult to maintain temperature while you're still forcing cold air through it. Think of it as an oven trying to maintain a constant temperature with the door open allowing cool outside air to freely flow in.

As far as metal beads or spacers go, they will heat up faster meaning it will use less energy than the glass but it will also cool down much quicker so it won't retain as much heat. I think it's safe to say the difference is minimal if you took two of the same mass metal and glass objects and used them as heat retainers.

why does my Ascent stop heating after a while (in basic mode)? The coffee cup disappears and temperature goes down.

If you double click the setting button you can toggle the timer. The maximum time limit is 20 minutes but I wouldn't suggest over 10 for maximum life span of your unit.

Auto shutoff? I believe it's 10 minutes.

It's 10 minutes but adjustable. Unfortunately the motion sensor is not incredibly reliable.