Arizer Solo

[eyewhites]

Converted two friends Friday night. First thing they did when they woke up was order a solo

 

[OF]

That's exactley why I'm interested in one. I'm getting good clouds, but I'd still prefer thicker ones.

By all means try it if you've a mind to but also I think you should pause a moment and reflect that you're not being objective about this. You're looking for the answer you want and ignoring other 'facts' that come along with it. Look again at what the man just said, what you responded was exactly what you wanted:

With the PVHES you get increased airflow over the stock stems so you want to draw a bit slower. If you draw at the same speed the vapor will be thinner, if you slow down your draw you will get thicker vapor with the PVHES. The stock stems work fine for me, but I mostly use my PVHES because I get more vapor per hit than with the stock stems

Did you notice the "the vapor will be thinner" part? You just said that's exactly what you don't want? PVHES for the most part pass more air (the turbo version also removes some restriction in the screen area) which makes the draw easier of course.....but does not in any way increase production. This is not a convection vape like TV where that can happen. The best it can do is thin the vapor out by dilution, the reality is it's likely to slow production by robbing vaping heat to heat the cold air being drawn in cutting actual vapor production.

Because it's easier to hit, guys take bigger hits no doubt, the the vapor is definitely thinner, not thicker, those are the rules.

No free lunch (of Solo would come this way). Just a different compromise. Once again, "the fleas come with the dog". IMO Solo comes set up for the thickest possible hits, dilution is all you can do. As they say 'once you water your Scotch, all you can get is Scotch and water". Once you add the air in (making it thinner but easier to draw and higher in volume) you can't get it back out (to make a thicker hit).

OF

 

[ataxian]

As they say 'once you water your Scotch, all you can get is Scotch and water". Once you add the air in (making it thinner but easier to draw and higher in volume) you can't get it back out (to make a thicker hit).
OF

OF I love your analogies.

12 year old SCOTCH should be straight up to experience it's full flavor.

As it has been noted:

"Your can lead a horse to water however you can't make him drink!"

"If you fish with Sharks they "might" try and take away your prey!"

Catch a man a fish and he eats for a day!
Teach a man to fish and he'll eat for a life time!"

 

[OF]

OF I love your analogies.

12 year old SCOTCH should be straight up to experience it's full flavor.

Thanks for the kind words, such things often communicate best in this fun world of ours.

Otherwise I agree, there's a special place in the next life reserved for guys who water Glenfiddich. It's not a nice place of course, but totally appropriate. Right next to the Glenlivet and Macallan defilers...... Same general area as the child molesters, only warmer.

OF

 

[samirfuzzywuzzy]

Ataxian Can you please do a "full feature" on the oring. Ive been sending them out but most people dont know what they do or how to correctly install them. Makes me wonder what they even need em for considering they don't even know....

Also Id really like your opinion. I feel they make a world of a difference but then again I put one into a brand new machine unlike what other are doing.

 

[Krizzle]

Thanks for the kind words, such things often communicate best in this fun world of ours.

Otherwise I agree, there's a special place in the next life reserved for guys who water Glenfiddich. It's not a nice place of course, but totally appropriate. Right next to the Glenlivet and Macallan defilers...... Same general area as the child molesters, only warmer.

OF

I know this a solo thread but mmmm Glenfiddich is top quality. I always buy my dad a bottle for Father's Day every year good tastes.

 

[VapeNStone]

Converted two friends Friday night. First thing they did when they woke up was order a solo

I wish I could convert friends like that. I still have yet to see someone I converted go out and buy my vape just based on hitting it. I have had friends say it lol, but they are all broke. Guess I just need new friends lol

 

[samirfuzzywuzzy]

By all means try it if you've a mind to but also I think you should pause a moment and reflect that you're not being objective about this. You're looking for the answer you want and ignoring other 'facts' that come along with it. Look again at what the man just said, what you responded was exactly what you wanted:



Did you notice the "the vapor will be thinner" part? You just said that's exactly what you don't want? PVHES for the most part pass more air (the turbo version also removes some restriction in the screen area) which makes the draw easier of course.....but does not in any way increase production. This is not a convection vape like TV where that can happen. The best it can do is thin the vapor out by dilution, the reality is it's likely to slow production by robbing vaping heat to heat the cold air being drawn in cutting actual vapor production.

Because it's easier to hit, guys take bigger hits no doubt, the the vapor is definitely thinner, not thicker, those are the rules.

No free lunch (of Solo would come this way). Just a different compromise. Once again, "the fleas come with the dog". IMO Solo comes set up for the thickest possible hits, dilution is all you can do. As they say 'once you water your Scotch, all you can get is Scotch and water". Once you add the air in (making it thinner but easier to draw and higher in volume) you can't get it back out (to make a thicker hit).

OF

I dont find this true at all.

With a pvhes or pvhes gong IMO you only get light vapor if you pull it with less flow.
Using words like fast and slow don't help.
When pulling Pvhes at max flow (meaning your are pulling hard and the limit is created by the pieces used) you get heavy clouds. keep in mind that the pvhes is designed for people who feel that a stock stem has little or insufficient flow. If you increase the flow and the ability of your heater, to stay at temp is constant, then theoretically = More Vapor.

Also you must specify if your talking Turbo or standard/ whole piece or grind/ screen or no screen
These all effect your performance

 

[ataxian]

Ataxian Can you please do a "full feature" on the oring. Ive been sending them out but most people dont know what they do or how to correctly install them. Makes me wonder what they even need em for considering they don't even know....
Also Id really like your opinion. I feel they make a world of a difference but then again I put one into a brand new machine unlike what other are doing.

This is two years old and with the stock stems The tighter seal provides sweet flavor with nice vapor. Enhances the function! Plus I don't have them slipping out when on the patio.
I'm going to order some bent stock stems for this set up.

I love the o-ring and thank you for sending some to me.

I'll take some photos of how I installed mine and post them here.
Give me 30 minutes.

I find the need for the after market stems kind of like "CIRCULAR REASONING"?
I will order more stock stems to go with the O-RING.
Thanks again!
Nice function.

 

[thesoloman]

Ataxian Can you please do a "full feature" on the oring. Ive been sending them out but most people dont know what they do or how to correctly install them. Makes me wonder what they even need em for considering they don't even know....

Also Id really like your opinion. I feel they make a world of a difference but then again I put one into a brand new machine unlike what other are doing.

does this work to show people what the rings are for? http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/arizer-solo.3833/page-571#post-382986

 

[samirfuzzywuzzy]

Speaking Of heavy clouds this right here is my cloud stick for the solo
I get heavy clouds and flavor with whole pieces on just setting 3

 

[OF]

I dont find this true at all.

If you increase the flow and the ability of your heater, to stay at temp is constant, then theoretically = More Vapor.

I knew I'd get some 'kickback' on this. Please reread what I said? I said "thicker vapor" not more. Very important difference. Yes, bigger hits of weaker vapor can have more THC in them, but that's not the actual topic IMO.

While the temperature of the heater might be able to adjust (I don't think it can really keep up, watch the LEDs....) the cold air will still rob energy from making vapor, those are the facts based on proven thermodynamics principles, theory not withstanding.

Increasing the flow can allow you to take bigger hits (with more THC potentially) but not thicker ones. Adding cold air is watering your Scotch, you'll never get back to 86 proof that way, let alone surpass it.

OF

 

[samirfuzzywuzzy]

I knew I'd get some 'kickback' on this. Please reread what I said? I said "thicker vapor" not more. Very important difference. Yes, bigger hits of weaker vapor can have more THC in them, but that's not the actual topic IMO.

While the temperature of the heater might be able to adjust (I don't think it can really keep up, watch the LEDs....) the cold air will still rob energy from making vapor, those are the facts based on proven thermodynamics principles, theory not withstanding.

Increasing the flow can allow you to take bigger hits (with more THC potentially) but not thicker ones. Adding cold air is watering your Scotch, you'll never get back to 86 proof that way, let alone surpass it.

OF

Ive read all you have to offer twice. With my pvhes gong attached to a micro bubbler i get clouds so "thick" you cant shoot a photo through them. I can fog out a whole sedan in one hit.

Restriction created by the manufacturer for the solo is so that you dont wear you battery down fast.
If you have more air flow then the heater has to cycle on and off faster to keep temp which doesnt help battery life.

If you dont care about battery life you can get much more vapor out of a pvhes turbo. Id post a picture of the clouds but I live in FL.

Also have you ever done any volume sampling on you vapor path with proper equipment?
id post the results for you if it wasn't in conflict of interest.

Speaking of the led fluctuation...the circuit is designed to monitor temperature at intervals (not constant) so you dont get a Light show.

 

[thesoloman]

I bring forth this point in the airflow debate. The small channels cut into the stem bring air that is cool past a hot glass stem and past a hot metal bowl before it can actually touch your material that is sitting on the inside of that hot glass. I think that the air has been heated by the time it reaches your material thereby further increasing vapor production while decreasing draw restriction. This is what i've noticed from my homemade turbo high efficacy stem.

 

[samirfuzzywuzzy]

I bring forth this point in the airflow debate. The small channels cut into the stem bring air that is cool past a hot glass stem and past a hot metal bowl before it can actually touch your material that is sitting on the inside of that hot glass. I think that the air has been heated by the time it reaches your material thereby further increasing vapor production while decreasing draw restriction. This is what i've noticed from my homemade turbo high efficacy stem.

With the red o-ring installed I dont think the flow of the slots is what people claim it to be. the Red O-ring I ship to people is almost so tight Pvhes have a hard time even going into the chamber.

Keep in mind my observations are based on a brand new SOLO with a Brand new Pvhes Turbo and A brand new o-ring.

The Red orings create a lot of restriction that you will loose with the addition of slots bring you back to a happy medium.

Think of bottle necking in an air path.

If you move the bottle neck to another part of the air path, things change but the NECK is still there. If you use PVHES and want max performance then some of the restriction lost must be added back with the use orings screens or other forms of bottle necking.

My next expirement will be Pvhes turbo cut down with chillum added. Chillums have much smaller holes in them adding some NECK to equation.

 

[Stu]

I knew I'd get some 'kickback' on this. Please reread what I said? I said "thicker vapor" not more. Very important difference. Yes, bigger hits of weaker vapor can have more THC in them, but that's not the actual topic IMO.

While the temperature of the heater might be able to adjust (I don't think it can really keep up, watch the LEDs....) the cold air will still rob energy from making vapor, those are the facts based on proven thermodynamics principles, theory not withstanding.

Increasing the flow can allow you to take bigger hits (with more THC potentially) but not thicker ones. Adding cold air is watering your Scotch, you'll never get back to 86 proof that way, let alone surpass it.

OF

I agree with OF for the most part. However OF's observations presume that the stock stems restrict airflow at the precise optimal level for vapor production. Not too much restriction (would cause loss of some vapor to radiation and conduction that can't be 'swept away' / inhaled fast enough and therefore lost to condensation) and not too little (would cause wispier, thinner vapor and the heater would be fighting a losing battle to keep up).

This may well be the case, however I'm not so willing to concede that it is based (solely) on my own anecdotal evidence. It is theoretically possible that PV has struck a better balance between restriction/flow to better match the abilities of the Solo.

I think we can all agree that there can be too much restriction in theory (imagine 100% restriction...no airflow at all) or too little restriction (wide open airflow would not work well either) in theory. There is a perfect balance to be had, but the question becomes "Did Arizer or PV get closer to the serendipitous sweet spot?" My money is on PV based on my personal experience. YMMV.

Edit: Also, note that Arizer has made changes to the original stems (2 holes) by trying a 3-hole version, and has ultimately decided on a 4-hole stem. So Arizer made changes to the original design by increasing airflow (twice) over the original design. Something to think about.

 

[five0five]

I have 2 stems from planet vape 14mm GonG adapter no carb & 4 hole glass straight stem with coarse screen in each and I can't really tell the difference. Both stems give me great clouds with amazing flavor. I like the straight 4 hole glass stem personally only because the vapors are a little bit cooler than the 14mm GonG adapter.....
Anyway CAN SOME PLEASE TELL ME WHERE I CAN GET ONE OF THOSE COOL LOOKING STEMS like FUZZY's?

 

[OF]

If you dont care about battery life you can get much more vapor out of a pvhes turbo. Id post a picture of the clouds but I live in FL.

Also have you ever done any volume sampling on you vapor path with proper equipment?
id post the results for you if it wasn't in conflict of interest.

Again, I've no doubt about your ability to get more vapor (that's one of the goals of PVHES), the topic was thicker, not more.

And, yes, since you bring it up I have done some testing with a home made reflective IR emitter/detector pair (much like a reflection smoke alarm works, obscuration having not worked well due to fouling). While preliminary tests were promising it became clear to me that flow rate needed to be measured and factored in or standardized. It's an ongoing project though, Tim in fact has one of my kluges which he's getting some fun results with and is asking for my help making a full blown instrument. Small world.

You sound like you're doing similar work but finding the opposite (but can't speak because of a NDA)? That being the case, I won't press you for details but will say 'yes, I've tested the idea some and have high confidence'?

I bring forth this point in the airflow debate. The small channels cut into the stem bring air that is cool past a hot glass stem and past a hot metal bowl before it can actually touch your material that is sitting on the inside of that hot glass. I think that the air has been heated by the time it reaches your material thereby further increasing vapor production while decreasing draw restriction. This is what i've noticed from my homemade turbo high efficacy stem.

A point well taken, but where is that heat coming from? The glass is cooler, therefore the load. And the volume of air in the output vapor goes up, and I'm confident it goes up faster than any marginal improvement from 'pseudo convection' effects. Vapor is being dilluted, made less dense, not as thick.

The thickest cloud possible would come from pulling a vacuum first and then heating the bud. Think about it. Fill a Volcano bag with that stuff and you'd have something to brag about. Volcano brings up a good point, what happens when you speed up the fan? I know my HA makes denser vapor if I slow the pump down...... The bags fill faster, of course, but you can tell by looking which is thicker. I've done that, too. And encourage others with a curious mind to do so too. Experimental results beats all comers?

In the end it doesn't really matter to the owner. If he's happy with the results (for whatever reason) he's happy with the results. I just saying based on my understanding of science and my experience trying to take objective views, higher flows are really less dense.

FWIW I usually use PVHES, the vapor is plenty thick for me and I like to sip so I prefer not a lot of restriction (although I'm cool with some).

With the red o-ring installed I dont think the flow of the slots is what people claim it to be.
The Red orings create a lot of restriction that you will loose with the addition of slots bring you back to a happy medium.

Think of bottle necking in an air path.

I agree completely. I came to just that conclusion when I first started messing with rings. The ring seals up the top making the stock stem draw 'like when it was new'. The 3 slots (down the sides, different from the 6 notches in the rim) bring this back to about 'on par'. That is my PVHES with the ring pulls like the stock one without. To get fuller benefit I did a series of experiments I reported using notches to add airflow. My current version (best so far) has notches on the bottom surface each with a larger passage than the PVHES has.

Doing so give full flow (or nearly so) and yet still has a firm enough grip on the stem to keep it from rotating on it's own (what I was looking for to start).

Good stuff.

OF

 

[samirfuzzywuzzy]

Again, I've no doubt about your ability to get more vapor (that's one of the goals of PVHES), the topic was thicker, not more.

And, yes, since you bring it up I have done some testing with a home made reflective IR emitter/detector pair (much like a reflection smoke alarm works, obscuration having not worked well due to fouling). While preliminary tests were promising it became clear to me that flow rate needed to be measured and factored in or standardized. It's an ongoing project though, Tim in fact has one of my kluges which he's getting some fun results with and is asking for my help making a full blown instrument. Small world.

You sound like you're doing similar work but finding the opposite (but can't speak because of a NDA)? That being the case, I won't press you for details but will say 'yes, I've tested the idea some and have high confidence'?



A point well taken, but where is that heat coming from? The glass is cooler, therefore the load. And the volume of air in the output vapor goes up, and I'm confident it goes up faster than any marginal improvement from 'pseudo convection' effects. Vapor is being dilluted, made less dense, not as thick.

The thickest cloud possible would come from pulling a vacuum first and then heating the bud. Think about it. Fill a Volcano bag with that stuff and you'd have something to brag about. Volcano brings up a good point, what happens when you speed up the fan? I know my HA makes denser vapor if I slow the pump down...... The bags fill faster, of course, but you can tell by looking which is thicker. I've done that, too.

In the end it doesn't really matter to the owner. If he's happy with the results (for whatever reason) he's happy with the results. I just saying based on my understanding of science and my experience trying to take objective views, higher flows are really less dense.

FWIW I usually use PVHES, the vapor is plenty thick for me and I like to sip so I prefer not a lot of restriction (although I'm cool with some).

OF

Its good to know others are not just basing of what they see in the mirror or what they see when they exhale.

Also pressure tests (In reverse) are easy way to determine what your "flow" is like.

one major point I have noted that no one has mentioned yet. I do use one level higher when using slotted equipment. and some times 2 levels higher to fill my 1.5 and 2 liter pieces.

Also on slotted pieces (pvhes and home made) Ive noticed the Red O-ring doesnt leave "much" space for "cool" air intake.

 

[ataxian]

While the temperature of the heater might be able to adjust (I don't think it can really keep up, watch the LEDs....) the cold air will still rob energy from making vapor, those are the facts based on proven thermodynamics principles, theory not withstanding.

Increasing the flow can allow you to take bigger hits (with more THC potentially) but not thicker ones. Adding cold air is watering your Scotch, you'll never get back to 86 proof that way, let alone surpass it.

OF

"OF" thank GOD for science!
I will test the PHVES and the STOCK STEMS with scientific method.
MYTH BUSTERS project!

Once you water down a good SCOTCH it's lost forever!

MANY CLOUD CHASERS!

EVEN FEWER FLAVOR CHASERS!

"The better the flavor the more enjoyable the effects"!

 

[OF]

Its good to know others are not just basing of what they see in the mirror or what they see when they exhale.

Also pressure tests (In reverse) are easy way to determine what your "flow" is like.

one major point I have noted that no one has mentioned yet. I do use one level higher when using slotted equipment. and some times 2 levels higher to fill my 1.5 and 2 liter pieces.

Also on slotted pieces (pvhes and home made) Ive noticed the Red O-ring doesnt leave "much" space for "cool" air intake.

Objective measure beats subjective opinion, no doubt about it.

It's just those issues (flow rate) that got be to put it aside for more thinking and turn it over to Tim (who pushed it off in a totally unexpected (by me) direction, much to my delight!). My last thoughts on the matter is flow rate is easy to measure with a pair of manometers, calibration is even pretty easy since we can measure the captured volume at STP. However, long term you don't want that stuff 'downstream' since that calls for a vacuum pump and introduces fouling issues. Much better to put the vape in a box and pressurize it enough to get the target flow rate delivered at STP out the MP of the device under test I think. Measure the air flow rate going in, not coming out? That should be easy enough to control as the pressure to establish the needed flow rate is pretty low (sub PSI I bet). Putting an airstone in a standing piece of pipe with 3 feet of water in it would give you a regulated pressure from naught to 1 PSI......

Increasing the heating is cheating in the 'which stem makes thicker vapor' competition. Shame on you.....

I've just posted my experience with rings fixing one problem (grip) while making another (restricting flow) I recommend experimenting with notches to those interested......both of you.

OF

 

[kingofnull]

 

[samirfuzzywuzzy]

"OF" thank GOD for science!
I will test the PHVES and the STOCK STEMS with scientific method.
MYTH BUSTERS project!

Once you water down a good SCOTCH it's lost forever!

MANY CLOUD CHASERS!

EVEN FEWER FLAVOR CHASERS!

"The better the flavor the more enjoyable the effects"!

I am in a classification by my self?

Im am flavor cloud chaser....whats wrong with wanting flavor in abundance...huh....lol

 

[Krizzle]

How are you finding the Pinnacle WT with your Solo? I cant use my solo without it now it is awesome and so happy I got one.

 

[Snappo]

By all means try it if you've a mind to but also I think you should pause a moment and reflect that you're not being objective about this. You're looking for the answer you want and ignoring other 'facts' that come along with it. Look again at what the man just said, what you responded was exactly what you wanted:



Did you notice the "the vapor will be thinner" part? You just said that's exactly what you don't want? PVHES for the most part pass more air (the turbo version also removes some restriction in the screen area) which makes the draw easier of course.....but does not in any way increase production. This is not a convection vape like TV where that can happen. The best it can do is thin the vapor out by dilution, the reality is it's likely to slow production by robbing vaping heat to heat the cold air being drawn in cutting actual vapor production.

Because it's easier to hit, guys take bigger hits no doubt, the the vapor is definitely thinner, not thicker, those are the rules.

No free lunch (of Solo would come this way). Just a different compromise. Once again, "the fleas come with the dog". IMO Solo comes set up for the thickest possible hits, dilution is all you can do. As they say 'once you water your Scotch, all you can get is Scotch and water". Once you add the air in (making it thinner but easier to draw and higher in volume) you can't get it back out (to make a thicker hit).

OF

I switch around with the different stems, just because it's fun for me. Often times I use my Ed's wood stem (good looks, snug fit, a bit easier draw, good vapor). Right now I'm using my PVHES bent turbo with tip (swivel fit, easier draw than OEM, good vapor). The differences in draw effort required are subtle only (nothing drastic). None really give an easy draw. I'd compare the stock and turbo stems this way: thick milk shake vs thinner milk shake (not thin). Use of the o-ring reintroduced more of the draw restriction that I was looking to reduce, so I just don't use the o-ring. A loose stem gives me a little wiggle room to play with restriction reduction. The turbo and the wood are a bit less breath work for me, but they all get the job done!

By the way...Ed from Ed's stems is making me a beautiful custom rare wood burl stem that'll be ready in a few weeks. Can't wait to show it off here with a pic!