Arizer ArGo

[OF]

Check out the Fury 2. It's perfect for dog walks.

I have both, and while I agree F2 is useful, I think Summit is more so, given it's 'easier to palm' size and shape, lack of light showing (more important after dark) and ability to keep it in your pocket until it 'buzzes' to tell you it's ready. It's also set up for a hit or two then shuts itself off if you don't stop it.

F2 wasn't out when Randy at PIU recommended Summit specifically for dog walks, but similar units were.

So if F2 is "perfect" for the job, what's the correct term for 'better than perfect'? Summit has drawbacks (limited battery, harder to reload, etc) that impact other jobs but if 'a few solid, fast, tasty hits on the sly while walking the pooch' is the goal it's the best tool for the job I know of.

F2 is worth consideration, of course, just not the 'top pick' IMO. A compromise.

Holiday regards to all.

OF

 

[gotlucy]

Hi again everyone.

Having read almost all of the thread, I'm left with this impression:
Most Arizer fans like this device. It's solid all around.

Here's my thinking:
I'm not so much a fan of Pax for the hot mouthpiece effect. Argo has some mixed reviews in that area.

Argo seems similar in usability to the Air.
What do users of Arizers say? If you ranked devices in order, where does Argo belong and why? (Portable not Extreme)

[I tend to favor Solo for home use, if that makes a difference. )

I also tried to follow the glue/safety concern thread, and noticed a PP later on said that was a high quality heat resistant polymer?

Thanks friends!
~B

 

[OF]

Here's my thinking:
I'm not so much a fan of Pax for the hot mouthpiece effect. Argo has some mixed reviews in that area.

Argo seems similar in usability to the Air.
What do users of Arizers say? If you ranked devices in order, where does Argo belong and why?

I'm not sure I follow. And I've never tried Pax but know what hot is. ArGo can be awkward to hold some ways (it gets quite warm in the lower right where the oven is in use) but it's natural to hold it by the lower left corner (with one finger under the unit to keep it from slipping down) making it easy to deal with left handed. I'm right handed so usually use it 'backwards' (display away from me). No issues with that adjustment.

If the discussion is Air vs ArGo I find Air basically a skinny Solo. Not very portable, really, but a modest improvement if you don't plan on taking it with you. When it comes time to put it in a pocket ArGo is the clear winner. Since I got an ArGo, I've used Air only a few times. For me it's Solo all the way unless it needs to travel, then it's straight to ArGo.

Is that what you wanted to know?

OF

 

[Brewervapesalot]

I've used solo a lot and own an argo. I think argo is just better, even though they're basically the same. What I mean by basically the same is that they produce very similar vapor and results to the degree that you have to hit another vaporizer if you want substantially bigger or smaller clouds or substantially different results...

 

[gotlucy]

Yes dear @OF that is exactly the kind of things I wanna know.. Thanks, really appreciative of all the contributions to the thread.

Turns out... I've pulled the trigger.

Stand by for an extensive review...

[BTW Re: pax effect- was never happy with the hot lips, regardless of temp setting, model, minimal time to burn-y even referencing accidental arizer hot glass on finger touches plus the tinge of plastic smell]

 

[Zoppo]

Today I will return to the Argo to check the optimal temperature and sessionlength for the first session. First temperatures between 177 and 180°C for a few days, after this the sessionlength.

Testing with the Argo finished. My prefered low temperature 179° Celsius. 177 and 178°C are a little bit more tasty, but at this temperatures resin builds up in the stem and it is much more difficult to remove the material. For the sessionlength I'm now on 12 minutes for the low temperature session. Seems to be enough to cook the thc to cbn. For the following high temperature session with 198°C, 12 minutes are to short. I had to fire the Argo up again for 2 or 3 minutes.

Hello Folks with Insomnia, try it for yourself!

Maybe You need slightly different temperstures, test it by yourself and take my temperatures 179°C and 198°C with 12 minutes sessionlength as startingpoint. Remove the material between this two sessions completely (you may also grind it finer) and put it in the stem again.

Good luck and sleep!

By the way, if you test it for yourself, please post your temperatures and sessionlength!

 

[Zoppo]

Reading what you have said @Zoppo regarding your insomnia, do you (did you) find the same thing with the mighty?

Well sadly the Mighty reaches only 50% - take a look in the manual of the Mighty Medical - it's written there.
This means, You nead 60% more Material for the Mighty to get the same amount of cannabinoids etc.
Which means You have to spend 60% more for the medicine!
But even, if I add the 60%, the Mighty did not work like the Solo, I think, the Solo has a little more conduction, so the material get's a little more degradet, which means a little bit more CBN in the second session?

http://fuckcombustion.com/posts/1315767/

The same efficiency with the Argo!

 

[LabPong]

Testing with the Argo finished. My prefered low temperature 179° Celsius. 177 and 178°C are a little bit more tasty, but at this temperatures resin builds up in the stem and it is much more difficult to remove the material. For the sessionlength I'm now on 12 minutes for the low temperature session. Seems to be enough to cook the thc to cbn. For the following high temperature session with 198°C, 12 minutes are to short. I had to fire the Argo up again for 2 or 3 minutes.

Hello Folks with Insomnia, try it for yourself!

Maybe You need slightly different temperstures, test it by yourself and take my temperatures 179°C and 198°C with 12 minutes sessionlength as startingpoint. Remove the material between this two sessions completely (you may also grind it finer) and put it in the stem again.

Good luck and sleep!

By the way, if you test it for yourself, please post your temperatures and sessionlength!

Zoppo,

Interesting info with your temps and session style. One thing I can tell you....the build up of the stickyness in the bottom of the load or at the glass bottom (or if you add a screen like myself), that will build up the sticky stuff after the first 1-4 draws normally. I always stir the load after 3-4 draws to get that off the screen bottom. You can tell how much is effected like this if you use a SS screen.

Also how you grind and pack make a big big difference in the vapor you get from the Argo. I typically like a slightly finer to almost medium grind pending on flower type. Do not pack tight at all....pack with no air pockets but just tamp down the very end so it is not sticking out the glass end and is just slightly not full...like 80% max....then see if you get quicker thicker vapor. When I over pack or have slightly moist flower loaded in the stem....vapor quantity and strength is much less until you get midway or so in the session when the flower is dry and broken down enough. This is one reason why I use a SS screen, I stir and do not like dirty stems. It is super easy to keep your stem clean this way with little loss of taste or other. I keep things pretty clean and clog free.

Also stirring with a screen makes it so much easier and faster of a process to do. I usually just stir one time and it is enough.

 

[Zoppo]

Zoppo,

Interesting info with your temps and session style. One thing I can tell you....

Hello LabPong, thanks for the replie!

First of all, I don't stir in the stem. I did it with the Solo, but with the Argo I prefer to remove the material completely on a small plate and stamp it before putting it in again. I like (and have) to cook the material for one session with a low temperature to produce some amount of CBN. If I stir it to early, there will be more extraction of THC, less cooking of THC and, cause of that, less CBN.

I don't use screens with the Argo (did it with the Solo) for me there is no need for it. Even if I grind it fine, there isn't much material in the stem. The holes of the Argo stem are smaler and with the Santa Cruz there is no problem to use it without screens. I remember Arizer wrote about the Solo, the taste would be better without screens ... it is! But I don't like to grind it fine. Fast extraction is the opposite to my needs! Some amount of THC has to stay in the material for cooking!

And packing? Everyday I use the same amount in the stem 110 mg, fill it in with a funnel and stamp it lightly. Believe me, I know how to pack the Arizers correctly, had 4 1/2 years to improve my vaping for my conditions in every aspect: material, grinder/shredder, vaporizers, temperatures, sessionlength, ...

It was only a surprise for me, that the Argo differs much to the Solo, cause the Solo stays clean, even at 177 Centigrades Celsius.

At last, I'm a medical user who has to pay for the medicine by myself. Why should I blow the medicine in big clouds into the air? I prefere to get it in the body, like I wrote before, small draws with a lot of air afterwards works really well - especially with the Solo and the Argo.

Your Tipps are okay for recreational users, but for me? No, cause I have different needs and optimized my vaping over a really long time for my body and conditions ... not finished yet :-)

 

[LabPong]

Hello LabPong, thanks for the replie!

First of all, I don't stir in the stem. I did it with the Solo, but with the Argo I prefer to remove the material completely on a small plate and stamp it before putting it in again. I like (and have) to cook the material for one session with a low temperature to produce some amount of CBN. If I stir it to early, there will be more extraction of THC, less cooking of THC and, cause of that, less CBN.

I don't use screens with the Argo (did it with the Solo) for me there is no need for it. Even if I grind it fine, there isn't much material in the stem. The holes of the Argo stem are smaler and with the Santa Cruz there is no problem to use it without screens. I remember Arizer wrote about the Solo, the taste would be better without screens ... it is! But I don't like to grind it fine. Fast extraction is the opposite to my needs! Some amount of THC has to stay in the material for cooking!

And packing? Everyday I use the same amount in the stem 110 mg, fill it in with a funnel and stamp it lightly. Believe me, I know how to pack the Arizers correctly, had 4 1/2 years to improve my vaping for my conditions in every aspect: material, grinder/shredder, vaporizers, temperatures, sessionlength, ...

It was only a surprise for me, that the Argo differs much to the Solo, cause the Solo stays clean, even at 177 Centigrades Celsius.

At last, I'm a medical user who has to pay for the medicine by myself. Why should I blow the medicine in big clouds into the air? I prefere to get it in the body, like I wrote before, small draws with a lot of air afterwards works really well - especially with the Solo and the Argo.

Your Tipps are okay for recreational users, but for me? No, cause I have different needs and optimized my vaping over a really long time for my body and conditions ... not finished yet :-)

Now I understand why you are temp stepping and then taking the material out to reset it and vape the remaining at higher temps. Makes perfect sense and you are getting everything you can out of the "medicine".



I am also a med user for pain and neurological problems. I just am old and my lungs are worn out...I like to extract at 376 F on my argo and Air 2....purple/pink light on Air1. With different stems/glass/mouth pieces...I can get good vapor while not having to take such long slow draws. I do not like going over 10 seconds draw if I can help it....though with the newer bubble straws in the argo I can go longer as you can use less pressure in the draw.

I always use a water rig....so I can extract faster than using stock stems via mouth. Especially with the Air1 and wpa.


So, yea....many ways to use and get different results. That is what is nice about Arizers.....they can accommodate many different users.

 

[Hoodooguru23]

Just got my Argo to relieve my painful VAS. I’m a longtime Pax guy. Looking for taste and the ability to do 2-3 nice hits and reload rather than get degraded hits. I’ve got some hope that with lots of hands on research - which I shall start in earnest tomorrow- I will find the right combo of size, grind, pack to find the Holy Grail.

First impressions: well built, easy to use, love the ability to dial in exact temp, smooth, not too hot to handle (but I do short sessions), wonderful “rounded” (as opposed to edgy) effect. I am getting some material in my mouth. First draw has no visible vapor (which I think is a convection thing) but then was able to get some satisfying clouds on hits 2-4. For comparison, I was never able to get consistent clouds from my barely used Firefly 2.

I’m looking forward to extensive research. Will report additional findings.

 

[Brewervapesalot]

Small water bubblers on the argo are very nice IMO. Helps cool high temp settings so you get bigger clouds and cooler vapor.

 

[zor]

Ordered an Argo around Black Friday from the almoght POTV, received it Sat, put it through some good use over the weekend. Great stuff, I like it a bit to my Fury 2 but with better battery life. Can't find anything much more to say, good or bad, except that I'm happy to finally have something from the Arizer family in my arsenal

 

[Zoppo]

The Argo is? State Of The Art!

At the end, I tried it with whole flowers, no grinding and ... it works very well. Especially for two sessions with different temperatures.
First on 180° Celsius, for 13 Minutes, removed the material and stamped it a little, back into the Argo, than on 220° Celsius for more than 13 minutes. Gives a light but very tasty first session, the second session is much more stronger, but also tasty and not harsh!

The Argo is now definitely my No.1, cause of that, my Solo II is now the No. 2 ... no need for another device, except maybe the Argo II sometimes in the future. :-)

 

[Hoodooguru23]

A little more than 10 days with my Argo bouncing back and forth between the new kid on my block and my longtime friend Pax3 (following Pax1 and Pax2). They both are great vapes overall with different strengths and weaknesses. I must preface that much of this site seems to not give a lot of notice or respect to Pax perhaps because it's too mainstream. Like Argo, I think it's worthy of consideration.

My overall impression of Argo:

PROS
- Smooth vapor from start to finish
- A very rounded (not edgy) but really powerful effect. This is it's best - and most important - attribute. Obviously the feeling is much, but not all, of what's vaping is all about.
- Fun to play with - exact temp selection, lots of packing options
- Easy to clean.
- Pocket size. With the mouthpiece cap glass stem should be fairly sturdy.

CONS
- Inconsistent hits. Some are wispy, some are decent. Some of it may be learning curve.
- Bowl starts with a light tasting terpene hit. Two or three hits later you start getting a fuller, but non-terpene hit. To put it musically, you get just treble first, then the other hits are all midrange with a little bass.
- Scooby Snacks (move to PROS if you like them)
- Gets me overly medicated. This is one lots of people will definitely move to PROS. I like to microdose, have low tolerance and like to get elevated without couch or brainlock. Since the good hits tend to come as the session goes on, it's hard to just take a couple nice pulls and shut it down.

I think there's a convection thing where you don't get the bass, mid and treble all at once. Also that the vapor is more hot air relative to vapor by design - kinda makes sense, right? I'm coming to the opinion that for my tastebuds - l like strong tastes - conduction (with stirring) may be better. Interested in hearing others' thoughts and opinions.

NANO-DOSING
I've been having fun seeing how small an amount I can put in at a time so I can use the whole thing fresh then reload. I've gotten it down to .01g (by scale) at 420F (of course). I pour these scant flakes into the tube then pack it slightly with the butt end of Argo tool. Usually it will give a good 3 or 4 hits which is still a lot for me. Try it (even with more material)!

Argo vs. Pax3

SIZE: Pax3 easily. Smaller, lighter, fits better in a pocket, can be easily palmed. Still, Argo is definitely portable.

STEALTH: Pax3 by a mile. The quick heat up, haptic feedback, ability to turn on and off without looking even with gloves. My wife said about my new Argo that thanks to the beeping she now knows every time I'm taking a hit whereas I could sneak them before. (Of course, i hear every time the fridge door opens when she gets another glass of Chardonnay

TASTE: A tougher call but the first few hits of the Pax are way better. You can really taste the full range of flavors (treble, midrange and bass) of different strains. However, the taste of the Pax degrades after that. Other than the wispy first terpene hit - nice but not full flavored enough - the rest of a stem will taste pretty good right through.

EFFECT: Argo wins. There's something less edgy about it. At the same time, I have to say it's a bit more couchlocking than my Pax's effect with the same material. Still the Argo effect is deep and wide and high with no sharp edges.

CLEANING: A clear win for Argo. Shake that honeymaker tube in Iso, rinse it off and you're good to go. Buying a bunch of extra tubes and you can go a while without cleaning them then just soak a bunch together. The worst part of the Pax for me is cleaning. It's about a 5-10 minute science lab project taking it apart and cleaning fully. Again, having extra mouthpieces and oven covers can help extend the use before cleaning's required (every week or so).

EASE OF USE: Pax. Filling, stirring, packing (your index finger works just fine), emptying bowl, turning on, turning off. Everything is easier - other than cleaning. Argo is a lot messier to fill, stir and clean with random scoobs and ABV in my work area.

Net net? They're both great. I'm guessing that my Pax will get more use as I often take it on the go golfing, hiking, etc. It's both easier to use and stealthier on the go. Good strong taste is important to me and I'm ok with Waste to Taste (up to a point). But I think if I've got a day of hanging and watching sports or movies in the comfort of my home that I will definitely be giving my new friend, Argo, lots of attention.

My apologies for the long post, I had a lot to say. And sorry if I did too much of a comparison. Frankly I couldn't see where in Ask FC this would have been more appropriate or easy to find. (My bad, I'm sure. Not a big message board guy.)

I'll close with this... if you're thinking of the Argo it is definitely worthy. But I also want to say to those who haven't considered the Pax, if ease of use (other than cleaning), portability and stealth are important you should really consider adding one to your collection. Cheers!

 

[LabPong]

Hoodooguru......you can turn off the sounds on the Argo!

And you can set them to 3 diff levels when you want it on. I like the separate feature where it beeps when it reaches temp.

 

[Hoodooguru23]

Hoodooguru......you can turn off the sounds on the Argo!

And you can set them to 3 diff levels when you want it on. I like the separate feature where it beeps when it reaches temp.

Thanks LabPong. I know that. I turned the sound down but can't turn it off or I won't know that it's up to temp. For some reason when I'm using vaporizers I'm more likely to forget I turned them on.

 

[LabPong]

Thanks LabPong. I know that. I turned the sound down but can't turn it off or I won't know that it's up to temp. For some reason when I'm using vaporizers I'm more likely to forget I turned them on.

There are 2 sound settings in the menu. One is the main one that has the loud speaker looking icon, that is for all sounds but heat up time. The heat up sound is separate and is shown by the icon that looks like a thermometer with a check mark by it. So you can set these 2 sounds separately if you need.

I know what you mean with the heat up sound....I wish my Air2 had that ability.

 

[Dynavaper]

It's Christmas and something interesting (at least to me) just happened. I stuffed an ArGo stem and wanted to vape it while the rest of the family was doing typical Christmas stuff. But I got distracted by our dog and left the ArGo alone during the warm-up phase and then forgot about it. It was set to 185° C (365° F) and the session timer was set to 10mins. So the herb was cooking without interaction for that time.

I just came home and remembered the stuffed stem, only to find out that its content was evenly cooked and already light to medium brown. "Fuck!", I thought and was sure that that stem was probably dead. But I fired it up again (at 210° C, 410° F) and surprisingly had a fantastic session. Taste was not bad at all, the terpenes were still there, just not as irritating to the throat as they often are. The hit was furious and the overall impression of the high was that it felt way more balanced than normally. "Normally" in that context means my usual ArGo usage: One session à 10mins on 185° C and another direct subsequent session with the same stem at 210°C.

I wonder: Why was the hit so much more intense and still WAY more balanced than with my normal usage?
I expected that way more terpenes (and THC) had evaporated during the "null session". I will try that once more, but I don't think that this was a unique event.

Do you have an explanation for this?

Merry Christmas for those who care & kind regards!

 

[OF]

Do you have an explanation for this?

Merry Christmas for those who care & kind regards!

Yup. Contrary to 'conventional wisdom' nothing is really lost at idle in conduction vapes. The system is basically sealed (closed). Like a covered pan on the stove. THC and other components evaporate on schedule but as vapor can go nowhere and simply condenses again on some cooler spot giving up it's 'latent heat of vaporization' (energy needed to convert from liquid to gas) as it does. This heat escapes the vape to the surroundings like the rest of the heat being conducted out of the load. THC and the other vapor chemicals are still in there, waiting for another chance.

Back when Purple Days (an early stem vape) several of us conducted this little experiment in a much more robust manner. Normally you'd fill a stem with a tiny load (typically .03 grams or so), insert it into the heater (which was always on 24/7 typically). You'd wait say half a minute to heat up (very fast, lots of metal around) and take your hit or two (OK, sometimes 3). We'd space it out, or pass out, with the loaded stem in and find it THE NEXT DAY......still potent. In dedicated fashion some of us repeated this test...... You only simmered your load for ten minutes. Piker.

Unlike the higher heat of combustion, there's not enough energy (heat) to breakdown molecules of the sort we're interested in. Like moisture trapped in a closed bathroom after a shower, no place to go so all it can do is 'recycle' until it finds a way out.......and hopefully into you.

Thanks for the kind wishes, Merry Christmas indeed. And a healthy and prosperous New Year for us all.

OF

 

[Dynavaper]

That sounds completely logical to me, thanks a lot (as always) for taking the time. I will probably be too impatient mostly, but I could imagine making that "pre-roast" procedure a part of the routine from time to time. It was a very pleasant session indeed, but the spirit of Christmas might have affected the perception (and reception). Have to try that again soon!

Thanks again & all the best!

 

[sickmanfraud]

Best greetings of the Season @OF,

Unlike the higher heat of combustion, there's not enough energy (heat) to breakdown molecules of the sort we're interested in. Like moisture trapped in a closed bathroom after a shower, no place to go so all it can do is 'recycle' until it finds a way out.......and hopefully into you.

This seems to answer the question of decarboxylation open or closed. Closed it is.

Is this a reason to try and vape decarbed cannabis? My guess is that you may know the answer.

Have a healthy and prosperous new year.

 

[OF]

Best greetings of the Season @OF,

Have a healthy and prosperous new year.

Thank you very much. Best wishes to you and all assembled in return! Exciting times, these, full of promise.

Is this a reason to try and vape decarbed cannabis? My guess is that you may know the answer.

Nope, sorry. While not a traditional as 'What is the meaning to life' or most anything WRT understanding the fairer sex it's a puzzler to many. But not me. I take a simpler approach, I guess, 'try it and see'? I'm a big fan of 'follow the results you like'. Something like the ideal dog?

Thanks again. Warm regards to all.

OF

 

[Zoppo]

I wonder: Why was the hit so much more intense and still WAY more balanced than with my normal usage?

Maybe cause of this?

"The heating temperature is about 180°C and samples are heated for several minutes. To obtain the
neutral cannabinoid ∆9-THC, initially a small amount of THCA was decarboxylated at 180°C
for 5 minutes in an oven.

However, after analysis by GC it was found that a considerable
amount of ∆8-THC had formed during the heating process. The structural isomers ∆8
- and ∆9-THC could not be well separated by the CPC system used (data not shown). It was also noted
that an increasing amount of CBN was formed during the heating period because of
oxidation. Subsequently ∆9-THC was isolated directly from the neutral cannabinoids fraction.
But given the low abundance of neutral cannabinoids in the extracts, only a small amount of
∆9-THC could be isolated. The observed degradation of THCA into CBN was subsequently
exploited for the isolation of CBN, since the plant material used was naturally very low in
CBN content.

 

[sapetoku]

Hey guys, here's my quick review of the ArGo. I already had an Arizer Air so I knew the territory when I splurged on this new vape. The Air was my first electronic vape (the MFLB doesn't count) and to complete my transition from combustion to vaping I needed something truly portable (the Dynavap M may be small, I don't want people to think I'm smoking crack in the street). My prerequisites were: ease of use/maintenance, removable batteries, vapor taste and build quality. I almost got a Fierce but a great sales price on the Argo sealed the deal and I'm very happy with my choice. I tested the Pax, Starry and Fog and disliked the vape taste and mostly the cumbersome cleaning requirements. If I have to spend 10 minutes cleaning the device every few bowls, chances are it'll end up collecting dust pretty quickly.

Pros: To begin with, the unit is tiny! From all the reviews I watched, I knew it was small but I guess some reviewers are not that big people because that thing is minuscule in my large hands and is inconspicuous in my pants pocket. Build quality is excellent as usual with Arizer, it's super easy to use, heats quickly (30-45 seconds) and a single battery lasts 6 to 8 sessions easily - I have three and an external charger, meaning I can vape non-stop all day if I want to. Cleaning is ridiculously easy and straightforward and not needed often. The air path is much more open than the Air's and the vapour is super tasty at low temp. I feel it hits harder than the Air, perhaps because I use it mostly while walking. This thing works extremely well. With a single bowl I usually do a first session between 180 and 194C and a shorter second one at 210C. The AVB is uniform and completely extracted, confirming the high efficiency of the device. If you empty the stem while it's still warm the AVB will just fall out, no gunky residue. If you leave the AVB in, you'll probably need to scrape it out or use some iso and a Q-tip. The rest of the stem collects reclaim which is great to make stem milk from!

Cons: the click-latch is gimmicky and pretty much useless. It doesn't click in position when extended, meaning it retracts with nearly zero force and thus won't protect the glass stem if it falls on that end. I would have preferred a real closing latch to isolate the stem entirely so dust doesn't get in and to keep it from smelling. I leave mine in "down" position and put a silicone stem cap on it instead. The stem is very short but a Dynavap "fat mouthpiece" fits perfectly on it and feels great - I may get a longer stem for using at home. The other con is the unit gets VERY hot to the touch, to the point you can almost burn yourself. The secret is to hold it so your fingers don't touch the hot area, no biggie for me. It cools down quickly so not a huge problem, it makes a welcome hand-warmer in my cold climate but I can understand some people may be more sensitive.


All in all, a great vape. Silky tasty vapour in a great portable package.