Anvil by Vestratto

cptofnthng

Well-Known Member
He should simwell us an anvil stem instead of producing caps for the DV boys. I sold my one and only Phantom M. Wont use it anymore.
 

invertedisdead

Out to Lunch
He should simwell us an anvil stem instead of producing caps for the DV boys. I sold my one and only Phantom M. Wont use it anymore.

The anvil uses too many proprietary parts to be a good candidate for aftermarket stems. It would require basically an entire redesign. All you gotta do is take one apart, all the pieces need each other to function.


Also this FMJ should be showing people that this was never really about convection, it’s mostly a controlled lower temp conduction hit going on here. The Anvil floats the bowl for an insulatory air gap but by nature of using a metal bowl it’s always going to conduct heat 100x faster than the herb or the air. If the bowl wasn’t a conduction bridge between the oven it wouldn’t click.
 

Cannabiker

Well-Known Member
To be fair the FMJ seems to re bias the DV to convection already, from watching it demoed

It seems you control the roast with how much you restrict the airflow. More restriction gives a darker roast, which suggests to me that convection is the main driver here
I believe it's still a conduction-heavy vape. The FMJ just buffers the heat so it takes a slower soak, which allows the load to heat through before you hit it. Sure, the cap heats the air as it's drawn in, but I believe it's just enough to keep things going, not enough to initiate a convection response. The flavor is still pure Dynavap, suggesting not much is different--except that you lose the initial terp hit DVs are famous for.
 

My_50p_worth

Well-Known Member
Also this FMJ should be showing people that this was never really about convection, it’s mostly a controlled lower temp conduction hit going on here

Could you go into detail on this point a little more? You always have such interesting thoughts on vape concepts

Seems to me the opposite, that the FMJ allows an “RTL” hit via the convection it enables through the cap being able to hold onto and pass on more heat to the air stream
 

invertedisdead

Out to Lunch
Could you go into detail on this point a little more? You always have such interesting thoughts on vape concepts

Seems to me the opposite, that the FMJ allows an “RTL” hit via the convection it enables through the cap being able to hold onto and pass on more heat to the air stream

It would be the same reason as my above post; the jacket will transfer heat to the bowl faster than incoming air through the cap could be heated. The tip is being heated by the cap and it’s 400w/MK copper jacket (heatsink) whereas the air is only being heated by stainless steel or titanium at ~15w. And that’s considering a clean tip - polymerized oils will reduce heat transfer substantially.
To increase the convection bias, you need to remove conduction, but you can’t because the bowl is physically coupled to the heat source.

Both vapes are vaporizing via conduction by the time the click comes. There’s more heated surface area in the anvil but neither have some gigantic convection heating element like a glass symphony or anything.
 

My_50p_worth

Well-Known Member
It would be the same reason as my above post; the jacket will transfer heat to the bowl faster than incoming air through the cap could be heated. The tip is being heated by the cap and it’s 400w/MK copper jacket (heatsink) whereas the air is only being heated by stainless steel or titanium at ~15w. And that’s considering a clean tip - polymerized oils will reduce heat transfer substantially.
To increase the convection bias, you need to remove conduction, but you can’t because the bowl is physically coupled to the heat source.

Both vapes are vaporizing via conduction by the time the click comes. There’s more heated surface area in the anvil but neither have some gigantic convection heating element like a glass symphony or anything.
Thanks for the detailed reply, I appreciate that a lot man - I see where you’re coming from now. Always good to learn more about my strange hobby that nobody around here shares. I’ve always thought the anvil had a larger conduction element than John claimed, even more so with the XL bowl which leaves conduction patches if I under heat it

So if it’s still vaporising via conduction (the FMJ I’m talking about here) why is the final roast so dependant on the amount of airflow going through the tip and cap? My understanding has been that more air running through a conduction system drops the temp, but in the case the opposite appears to be the case?
 

Clapped_r6

Well-Known Member
I agree on principle, however I do think there is way more convective heating going on here than in the Vap. Imho the taste is very different.
That said, I do want a FMJ to try out. My VonG has gotten very lonely since the Anvil arrived
 

cx714

Space Invader
The tip is being heated by the cap and it’s 400w/MK copper jacket (heatsink) whereas the air is only being heated by stainless steel or titanium at ~15w.
How would contact surface area affect the calculation? The struts supporting the bowl are the main conductive channels while the incoming air can leach heat from the entire inner wall of the oven.

Asking bc I’ve taken some good-sized hits and found the material inside surprisingly green. That said, I finish each bowl in 3 rips: first heating the top band to click and then twice mid-oven.
 

seki

Well-Known Member
Sorry The Hangover GIF

Please forgive me fc, I know I annoyed everyone
We have people who only contribute to this thread by trying to stir up drama, at least you got us a new heat shield colour option much earlier than we would have otherwise. I liked having more options to choose from, so you speaking up and helping to make it happen is appreciated here, overrun jokes or not. Personally I'd stop apologizing, ignore any further complaints, then go all out and rock a purple avatar.
stonedmallone.jpg



I think the Sunday Post this week was a bad look over all. Ignoring all of the drama in the post, it seems to me like the core message is "Hey, I tried this sleeve thing 4 years ago, here are a couple of examples of what I tried back then and why I think our new design is superior".

I think saying that in and of itself isn't an issue, it's basically just showing your homework. What I didn't care for was the condescension. The negativity in the blog post along with the propensity to refer to VapCaps as "legacy devices" is unnecessarily antagonistic and serves no purpose other than to rile up the peanut gallery IMO.

Maybe that's the point though? Social media "engagement" seems to be all the rage these days.

The anvil uses too many proprietary parts to be a good candidate for aftermarket stems. It would require basically an entire redesign. All you gotta do is take one apart, all the pieces need each other to function.
Acknowledging that this is just a guess based on Reddit and IG posts, but it seems to me like Simrell might have been sent a unit to evaluate the potential for 3rd party stems and accessories by Vestratto. When he came out with what is essentially a competing product in the FMJ instead of expanding the Anvil Eco-system, maybe some feelings were caught and blog posts were written? 100% speculation on my part of course.

Still love the vape, 4+ months in and it's been the one I use the most by a good margin.
 

coolbreeze

Well-Known Member
I've gotta imagine aftermarket stems are on the way eventually. But the sheer amount of heating that goes into the Anvil is gonna pose some problems for actual stems (as opposed to screw-on mouthpieces like the XL).
If you kept the design you'd have to create a distinct ecosystem. Not sure how you could do other than use the heatshield/mouthpiece threads to mount stem pieces?

a purple avatar.
stonedmallone.jpg
Dobre Malltelevize GIF by MALL.TV
 
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Glorg

Well-Known Member
Why is there such a massive discussion about vape parts that aren’t part of the anvil. Ffs can these makers just make a solid product and big up themselves without discussing other people trying to do the same, there’s space for everyone here and it’s not exactly a stellar industry in terms of companies surviving long term, dirt kickers aren’t exactly going to do themselves any favors over time. The Sunday post shouldn’t be happening if there’s nothing to discuss and aimless defensiveness. Pretty lame all around. I maintain that this is a great vape but the entire pr crazy train needs to chill, we literally don’t even need any statements just available products and future development plans like cool different style bowls and heat shields.
 

bossman

Gentleman Of Leisure
The Sunday posts are indulgent and overwrought. Dude should concentrate on getting his excellent vape in stock and offering cheaper shipping options; the thousand word diatribes about how copper heats up can definitely wait.

Speaking of Vestratto's lame shipping cost: just ordered another BCG and shipping was $11 (a one dollar increase since last year) so take that to everyone who clapped back about how you can't possibly ship anything from Canada for under $25 anymore
 

coolbreeze

Well-Known Member
Why is there such a massive discussion about vape parts that aren’t part of the anvil. Ffs can these makers just make a solid product and big up themselves without discussing other people trying to do the same, there’s space for everyone here and it’s not exactly a stellar industry in terms of companies surviving long term, dirt kickers aren’t exactly going to do themselves any favors over time.
I agree about he food fighting over stuff we mostly love, but some of this is kinda relevant since the comparisons have been made by the mfrs themselves, not just the peanut gallery. I feel that the competition is mostly hype and that the actual situation is more complimentary, even with the copper cap in the mix. It's like fighting over ends of the visible light spectrum. I have a feeling that when the dust settles, there will be many happy users of anvils, DVs, and both.
 
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My_50p_worth

Well-Known Member
The Sunday posts are indulgent and overwrought.

You mean the same dude that thought a phone conversation with him would be considered a prize worth winning?

Okay I’ll stop being catty now, the mods are probably about ready to slap a few of us :rofl:

On another topic, I’ve been enjoying B2Bing XL bowls a lot. The delayed effects of an Anvil bowl allows you to vape a few bowls before they all hit at once.. what a ride
 

Roffa

Well-Known Member
The anvil uses too many proprietary parts to be a good candidate for aftermarket stems. It would require basically an entire redesign. All you gotta do is take one apart, all the pieces need each other to function.


Also this FMJ should be showing people that this was never really about convection, it’s mostly a controlled lower temp conduction hit going on here. The Anvil floats the bowl for an insulatory air gap but by nature of using a metal bowl it’s always going to conduct heat 100x faster than the herb or the air. If the bowl wasn’t a conduction bridge between the oven it wouldn’t click.
I think the standout genius thing about the Anvil's design was the decision to choose a screw-in bowl. This, even more than the copper and the heat sink, sets the anvil apart from Dynavap imo.
 

SillyNotMe

Well-Known Member
I’d like to throw a log on the convection conduction argument.

I had an interrupted cycle the other day. Heated it to click then had to quietly put it down without ever raising it to my mouth. Some time later, I opened the lightly loaded half chamber to crush the now cooked nug for a second heat. It was too spongy to crush. So I’ll pat myself on the back for growing such juicy nugs. And I’ll step back and say that there is a very convection heavy way of using this device.
 

My_50p_worth

Well-Known Member
Sure, the cap heats the air as it's drawn in, but I believe it's just enough to keep things going, not enough to initiate a convection response.

See the issue with me getting on board with this opinion is such - Why is it that airflow through the tip is the defining variable in how roasted an FMJ bowl is?

Using it without the FMJ, restricting airflow does the opposite and brings the cool-down click faster and lowers total extraction.

I do see inverted’s point about the ratio being fixed, but maybe the convection that is there can now do more work?


I’d like to throw a log on the convection conduction argument.

I had an interrupted cycle the other day. Heated it to click then had to quietly put it down without ever raising it to my mouth. Some time later, I opened the lightly loaded half chamber to crush the now cooked nug for a second heat. It was too spongy to crush. So I’ll pat myself on the back for growing such juicy nugs. And I’ll step back and say that there is a very convection heavy way of using this device.

Interesting, I’ve just tried heating mine to the click and then not hitting it. Much the same, my herb remains fairly untouched. Although it was not like that for long after that experiment concluded haha
 
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