Advanced E-cig users and oil/wax, how-to "one-hitter-quitter"

[2clicker]

We should get a chart going listing mods, atomizers, c-juice mix ratios, temp, watts, etc for best performance.

i like the sound of this, but it should also have info on dabbing oil straight instead of it being "liquified".

but also have the info for juice as well.

i think most in this thread are vaping errl straight and not cutting it into liquid.

 

[Joel W.]

So after my 4th Ac dual coil crapping out, I took the ceramic donut out of the 1701 and wrapped 2 fc2000 wicks with one coil/8 wraps of ni200 30g that came out to .25 ohms. Stuffed the coil back into the 1701 atty and rock on!

I like solid wire connections!

Edit. Have to turn the temp up from 520f and at that it is not at hot as the stock dual coil in temp mode.

But power mode will knock my socks off.

 

[psychonaut]

i like the sound of this, but it should also have info on dabbing oil straight instead of it being "liquified".

but also have the info for juice as well.

i think most in this thread are vaping errl straight and not cutting it into liquid.

Good point. I'll look into starting a chart thrad, we can combine the two into a single chart perhaps for a source of concentrate w/ecig hardware as they are closely related.

 

[Joel W.]

Here is a dual coil ni200 30g with 8 wraps each on an evil monk with old modified ceramic base I am playing with.

I have a lot to learn still.

 

[growinsmoke]

This is a very interesting topic IMHO. I can see the display show the "hunting", but haven't felt any pulsing on the inhale. I've built a lot of computerized "closed loop controllers" for motors on elevators, cranes, aerial trams and so on. You can design a system so it smooths out the seeking.

One way is smoothing on the feedback loop, sort of the equivalent of a mechanical spring, so it can't hunt too fast or too aggressively. Like if you're in the shower and the water gets too hot, you back off on the hot water tap too fast and it goes ice-cold, so you turn the hot water up and now it's too hot. You've overshot the setpoint. You get into an oscillation hot-cold-hot-cold unless you limit the excursion and the rate of change - that's called feeback smoothing.

A good design also incorporates feed-forward. By learning from the previous cycles and measuring the temp on the uptake, before correction is applied, you are applying "feedforward" control in addition to "feedback". A good "PID" or Proportional Integrative Derivative algorithm can achieve a very smooth control. A modern elevator doesn't jerk as the speed is varied. A good cruise control doesn't pump the accelerator. A good heating/cooling system doesn't turn on and off every second.

The Mini VF seems well-done that way, a decent PID controller. The break-even on my 0.11 ohm coil with 95% VG e-liquid is around 12 watts. If I set the wattage to 12, with a moderate airflow, the display is stable. With a higher wattage setpoint, if I listen on the drip-tip I can sometimes hear it pulsing the coil at about 10 cycles per second. If I set the wattage to 50 watts, it has to fluctuate a lot, it will slow down at times to as low as 2 cycles per second, but even then there's no irregularity in the vapor intake. It seems like a waste of battery above 25 watts or so, I get no more vapor, just more hunting. The odd thing is that sometimes it's so smoothed out I can't hear any hunting at the drip tip, even at 50 watts, it rides it like a greased swan ;-) As the coil dries up, it hunts less.

I'm an engineer. Completely with you here.

You make a really good point about the wattage effecting the fluctuation. The iStick is locked at 40w for TC mode. After using it more I am finding the hunting is only a problem when I am taking a light draw. If I could adjust wattage I would probably be ok, but this handicap is going to have an effect on my builds for sure. I will need to pay a lot of attention to airflow and having more mass in my wire might help.

Here is a dual coil ni200 30g with 8 wraps each on an evil monk with old modified ceramic base I am playing with.

I have a lot to learn still.

I like this a lot. You just load up in the center? What did the base come out of?

 

[Joel W.]

I like this a lot. You just load up in the center? What did the base come out of?

It started out life as a cheap dual coil atomizer. I snapped the ends off the sides of the ceramic cup to fit the fc2000 wicks and snapped the stubby off the bottom to make it short as possible. Still too tall for the stock monk cap though.

 

[growinsmoke]

I drilled a hole somewhere between 1/8 and 3/16 in in my igo-l and still wasn't getting great results with a DBC. I would a coil within a coil with 2 layers of rxw and it knocked my socks off. It was a very smooth vape. Props to @2clicker for the inspiration.

First I stuck 30ga ni200 through the slim rxw, then coiled it back to the beginning.

Then I slipped the next bigger over the coil. The rxw started to fall apart, but I was careful enough that it all came back together when I coiled over it.

The result is .33ohms. I think good contact and wicking is going to always be the deciding factor in efficient temp control.

 

[2clicker]

@growinsmoke... nice! i have considered the two dif size RXW coil myself, but have not built it. i recently got the large size of RXW in as well as that stumpy RDA and built an "in out" coil, but on the large size. so far its working very well. easily as good as a DBC. i havent measured the ID of this coil, but you can see straight through it from one side of the RDA base to the other. and when you fire it you can see vapor shoot out of both ends of the "tube". i line the air flow holes up with the holes at the end of the coil. 28g tempered nickel inner coil and 30g annealed nickel outter coil. leads twisted together. turned out to be .09 ohms.

then it hit me to attempt a DBC, but give it an outter coil as well. ill try that next.

 

[growinsmoke]

I actually tried a coil outside the DBC a couple days ago. I didnt see much improvement, but my coils were very stretched out.

 

[Joel W.]

So I was messing with that dual coil in the evil monk and put it in power mode and got the coils glowing.

Once I did that, they seem to glow even in temp mode and the resistance changed from .09 to over 1.0 ohms.

I had to lower the temp way down to like 340f in Ni mode to get it to hit right? Weird shit.

Then with the 1701 atty above, I never let it glow and the ohms are steady. Seems to work as good as the stock AC on mine at 540f. So happy!

Also my inspiration came from @ArchVape .

 

[Phife]

A note to the people using the SX Mini M Class. The Dry Coil warning can be an issue if the coils resistance is on the higher range. It comes on when there is still oil on the wire and stops firing. it can also be hard to load. But I find it works perfectly when I keep my builds at or below 0.1ohm. It recommends 0.06-0.08ohm, doing this it works great and I am able to vape up pretty much all of it and I can load no problem.

I found some Pure Nickel clapton wire at fasttech
https://www.fasttech.com/products/0...hentic-pilot-vape-ni200-nickel-coiled-heating.
I just got some in and will test some different builds. I`ll post my favorite when I find it. Im building on a Hobo V3.

 

[fernand]

One more thing on the TC mods. You may recall how Busardo raged at the Evic VT during his review (32:30), shouting that "THIS CANNOT HAPPEN!!"

"This" was the mod "popping out of TC", i.e. losing its setpoints or sensors - and turning the voltage on full blast.

That's like the cruise control in your car suddenly flooring the accelerator because it thinks the car is stopped - just 'cause it lost the speedometer feedback cable.

Or the elevator going through the roof, just because the sensors died and it thinks it's still in the basement.

Indeed, these accidents should NEVER happen.

On Busardo's rig it burned the liquid, then the wick, then ignited and flamed the whole atomizer like White Sands/Alamagordo.

So, I've been observing how the Mini VF reacts to loss of signals, before I make a Nickel-based Kayfun V4, and there's no comparison to the Evic VT adventures.

The Mini VF rules. On everything I've tried so far.

If at any time it gets confused or loses feedback - and the V4 is known for its intermittent positive pin connection - it stops firing - YAY! safety first.

Before it will reapply voltage it asks you if this is the same coil as before or if you mounted a new one. "Up for same coil, Down for new", or something like that. Safe and effective.

Conclusion? I built a SvoeMesto clone KF V4 0.13 ohm Nickel Tank with no glass - with TC working, I don't HAVE to see the liquid level. I mean if it's dry, it's dry, it won't burn, you won't die.

And I just ordered another Mini VF

 

[2clicker]

A note to the people using the SX Mini M Class. The Dry Coil warning can be an issue if the coils resistance is on the higher range. It comes on when there is still oil on the wire and stops firing. it can also be hard to load. But I find it works perfectly when I keep my builds at or below 0.1ohm. It recommends 0.06-0.08ohm, doing this it works great and I am able to vape up pretty much all of it and I can load no problem.

I found some Pure Nickel clapton wire at fasttech
https://www.fasttech.com/products/0...hentic-pilot-vape-ni200-nickel-coiled-heating.
I just got some in and will test some different builds. I`ll post my favorite when I find it. Im building on a Hobo V3.

interesting... maybe i can cop that IPV D2 afterall... hmmm

One more thing on the TC mods. You may recall how Busardo raged at the Evic VT during his review (32:30), shouting that "THIS CANNOT HAPPEN!!"

"This" was the mod "popping out of TC", i.e. losing its setpoints or sensors - and turning the voltage on full blast.

That's like the cruise control in your car suddenly flooring the accelerator because it thinks the car is stopped - just 'cause it lost the speedometer feedback cable.

Or the elevator going through the roof, just because the sensors died and it thinks it's still in the basement.

Indeed, these accidents should NEVER happen.

On Busardo's rig it burned the liquid, then the wick, then ignited and flamed the whole atomizer like White Sands/Alamagordo.

So, I've been observing how the Mini VF reacts to loss of signals, before I make a Nickel-based Kayfun V4, and there's no comparison to the Evic VT adventures.

The Mini VF rules. On everything I've tried so far.

If at any time it gets confused or loses feedback - and the V4 is known for its intermittent positive pin connection - it stops firing - YAY! safety first.

Before it will reapply voltage it asks you if this is the same coil as before or if you mounted a new one. "Up for same coil, Down for new", or something like that. Safe and effective.

Conclusion? I built a SvoeMesto clone KF V4 0.13 ohm Nickel Tank with no glass - with TC working, I don't HAVE to see the liquid level. I mean if it's dry, it's dry, it won't burn, you won't die.

And I just ordered another Mini VF

im convinced that the "jumping out of TC" issue is because of loose leads. if your leads are secure this wont happen.

 

[fernand]

But with the common screw type leads the wires can easily come loose, albeit for a fraction of a second, and on a simple mod that's not even noticed. So I don't think it's obvious if the leads are secure. On the Mini VF I've had it stop firing and go to the "old or new coil" screen out of the blue. Closer inspection then revealed a screw was coming loose, and with some TC mods that would have caused a flare-up.

 

[Joel W.]

i'm convinced that the "jumping out of TC" issue is because of loose leads.

I noticed every time one of my dual coils would jump out of TC mode is when one of the coils was not getting hot intermittently. The brass Crimp connection under the cup on Ac for me anyways.

I just wrapped 3 Fc2000 wicks in an upside down pyramid shape with 7 wraps of one ni200 28g coil. It came out to .14 ohm once inside the 1701 atty. OMG!!!

@growinsmoke, I load directly on the wires/fc2000 wicks

 

[fernand]

@Joel-W what mod are you firing this OMG pyramidal contraption with?

 

[Joel W.]

I am using the Evic vt set @ 37w and 570f for now

 

[fernand]

I'm still trying to figure out the TC issues. I built a Kayfun V4 SvoeMesto clone with 28AWG Nickel 200. Testing with 95% VG for now. Running 15 watts at 430 F I expected the TC to keep the coil and the cotton wick very clean. To my surprise it was about as cruddy in the middle as the reference, a 28AWG Kanthal A1 build running 15 watts on a VW mod.

And then it hit me. Doh. If the coil wire has a finite length, then the temp regulation is seeing the varying resistance of the wire as a whole. If the temperature at the ends is much cooler than in the middle, to the controller it looks the same as if the whole wire were at some intermediate temperature.

Unless the coil is strongly pressed together like a "micro-coil", or immersed in a thermally highly conductive liquid, there can easily be hot and cold spots that the controller can't know about, let alone prevent. So back to the drawing board. Has anybody solved this?

Try compressing Ni200 coils into packed micro-coils?

 

[fernand]

Someone, it may have been here, was saying that use of Nickel, with its conceivable risk of toxicity, was a bad idea.

I had to make a trip to the Emergency Room because of unexplained sharp chest pain 3 days ago. Heart attack tests negative. That's good. But it was a scare.

I think it've narrowed it down now to taking lung hits off a Stillare Clone dripping atomizer with copper screws I equipped with a nickel 200 coil.

I'm not getting this with another RDA with a similar coil of the same Ni200, but maybe I don't take such deep lung hits from it?

I had forgotten about that Stillare Clone RDA, then installed it on the Mini VF and took a few hits off it tonight -- and the chest pain started up again. Draw your own conclusions, but I can tell you I'm not a placebo responder.

 

[ArchVape]

@fernand Kayfun v4 because of the spring for the juice control ring makes horrible connections for TC/TP. You can buy a replacement CUP for the spring for TC. Known issue in the TC vaping coummunty. I have 2 Kayfun v2 and 2 Kayfun v4. My coil build with kanth last 1 week before I change the cotton for ejuice. With ni200 2 weeks.

http://www.steamtuners.gr/products/atomisers/kaufun-v4/c61-accessories/125-kayfun-v4-spring-update YOu can find US make version on ebay.

@fernand I been using ni200 coils and DNA perbuild subtank nickle heads for over 9months on a Vaporshark DNA40. Use a magma, derringer, TOBH v3 RDA. Use kayfun v4 and subtank mini daily drivers for my nic needs. Never had chest pains yet. Cig free for 4 years.

 

[2clicker]

I noticed every time one of my dual coils would jump out of TC mode is when one of the coils was not getting hot intermittently. The brass Crimp connection under the cup on Ac for me anyways.

I just wrapped 3 Fc2000 wicks in an upside down pyramid shape with 7 wraps of one ni200 28g coil. It came out to .14 ohm once inside the 1701 atty. OMG!!!

@growinsmoke, I load directly on the wires/fc2000 wicks

id would like to know what you think after a couple weeks of use. the only thing i can see as a negative would be oil collecting in between the 3 wicks where the wire doesnt make it. id be willing to bet that oil that finds its way there wont vape unless you have the heat turned up...? and slowly it may build up in there filling the wicks enough to where they dont absorb much anymore.

just thinking out loud. i tried a 3 piece fc2000 coil similar but different a few weeks ago. the length of each piece was about an 1/8". they were also in a triangle orientation, but instead of laying horizontally in the RDA they were mounted vertically. also the wire was wrapped onto itself over and over due to the shortness in wick length. it worked pretty well but incould see the buildup in the middle right away.

 

[ArchVape]

I find out that adding a fc2000 2.5mm wick right on top of the dual coils works as a heating surface.

Melt the shatter right over the wick.

Added Bonus affect of very little spitting. Very clean for 1 week of usage.

This morning's first dab of the day.

 

[Joel W.]

@2clicker , So far it has been working great all weekend. I had a friend over for a few hours of heavy use yesterday and he was impressed at how smooth the hits were with temp control and huge clouds.

I hold it upside down to take hits so any excess oil runs to the top of the coil, not the base of the cup.

I was thinking if buildup is an issue in the middle, then I may try to wrap in a figure 8 type wrap around all three to get the wire in the center.

So far, I love the big flat loading surface on top! Ohms are solid, No jumping out of TC mode. Best yet!

I will keep you all posted.

 

[2clicker]

I was thinking if buildup is an issue in the middle, then I may try to wrap in a figure 8 type wrap around all three to get the wire in the center.

yes! i tried this with 2 pieces of fc2000 before and never finished a coil. it was harder to do than i thought it would be and i gave up rather quickly. now you have me thinking another attempt is in order.

 

[Joel W.]

it was harder to do than i thought it would be and i gave up rather quickly. now you have me thinking another attempt is in order.

Ha yeah, I have been trying the figure 8 wrap for a while with not much luck either. I might make a jig for it tomorrow. Then I found and ordered some 1/8th" thick FC2000 wick. One big phat coil may be better than 3 small wicks wrapped in one big coil? Certainly will be easier to wrap!

Anyone recognize this atty? I think it is for ejuice but it looks interesting?