biohacker
H.R.E.A.M
Stopping temporarily would lower tolerance and thus potentially increase therapeutic benefits.
There is a fine line between therapeutic effects and high tolerance IME.
"Addicted" because you vape every day?
- Thread starter BabyFacedFinster
- Start date
Stopping temporarily would lower tolerance and thus potentially increase therapeutic benefits.
There is a fine line between therapeutic effects and high tolerance IME.
I’ve been away from my vapes and any herb for 9 days now. Still no addictive cravings, only thoughts like “mmm would be nice right now, but not necessarily needed”.
I’m a moderate to high usage daily vapourist. This will be a good T break for me, I can’t wait to get violated by my violator Kush back home.
I’m a moderate to high usage daily vapourist. This will be a good T break for me, I can’t wait to get violated by my violator Kush back home.
I’m far more addicted to social media surfing than anything else right now. But it comes with the need to promote my business.
Newcastle
Stoned!
I have been using MJ for 35 years and I am 52 now. I am very addicted and my side effects are real. I can not keep an appetite if I dont vape. My sleep pattern will go to hell if I quit. Its not just ...oh I miss it. It is a full blown I GOTTA HAVE IT! I want to take a break and try to juice/detox and see if that helps. I hate taking breaks!
looney2nz
Research Geek, Mad Scientist
LOL! Word.
Just ask Willie!
I broke a 20 day break tonight, almost 3 weeks of this damn flu
I've been using STRONG edibles and concentrates (largely out of Divine Tribe products) for a long time (medical reasons), aside from the flu bug itself, I suffered no ill effects during my 'dry time'.
Dropped my tolerance probably by a factor of ≥4.
With the added fun of Santa Ana winds and ridiculous pollen levels driving me to inflammation hell, I relented and ate 1/4 of a Bhang CBD bar, and after about 90 minutes, I ate another 1/4.
Nice, helped take the edge off of some nasty ass pain.
As for addiction patterns, the dopamine response to cannabis is about the same as food from research I recall reading in the past.
Pain and spasms prompt my medication, not a 'feel good' response.
uncanni
Well-Known Member
Stopping temporarily would lower tolerance and thus potentially increase therapeutic benefits.
I wonder if anyone else has this happen: it's my frame of mind that determines whether I get high and what kind of high I get. I use cannabis daily and it's only when I'm "stuck in a rut" that I don't get high. If my mind is active and I vary my activities as well, I always get high as I want to get. I think it's using cannabis in the exact same circumstances that leads to not getting high.
I just don't get it. If it's your medicine, why take a break? To suffer a little bit more???
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No.
I'm old school and look at addiction as two very separate things. In the classic sense? Think Opium or Heroine. To me, still, that is addiction. You have gone to far down the path of a substance that, in and of its self, has the power to rewire your bio/brain chem and alter your neural pathways.
If I am living a happy, fulfilling, and productive life with unlimited access to my poppy garden? I never worry about it, my use doesn't escalate, and I never try and stop. Still: I am addicted.
In the USofA our models of disease and medical treatment/ethics are built around $. Because of this the DSM is first and foremost a billing manual. As others have pointed out, this leads to some very obvious problems with the current use of the term "addiction". In order to treat/help you a shrink needs to be able to put you in a billing box. And it needs to be a box that the insurance company can't dispute. Addiction is the current popular girl.
For a smart, enlightened, and ethical shrink this isn't a problem. They can bill for your gambling or skittles addiction and then spend 99% of the time helping you with the underlying crap that is causing it. Sadly; In most cases mental health folks fall in love with the model. They forget that the map is not the place.
Look at the current DSM definition of addiction. Look at how many of the "if 2 or more" check list are based entirely on how others judge you. Teh gay is no longer listed as a crazy. At least not officially. But if you are gay in the Bible belt you probably qualify as an "addict".
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EverythingsHazy
Well-Known Member
The DSM is NOT a billing manual. It helps doctors treat people properly. The amount of misinformation about modern medicine, among the cannabis community, is a shame.
biohacker
H.R.E.A.M
Just n=1, but that has not been my own experience! No, your perception is off IMO, you seem to generalize frequently in other threads about this too, like the entire cannabis community is out to get modern medicine!
Running a supercharged endocannabanoid system over here, and assume most of us who partake at least daily are as well. I see it like all my other supplements. I am consuming 2 grams of cinnamon a day which is far more than my cannabis consumption, and also can be quite bad for you if too much is ingested! Am I addicted to cinnamon? I take it for general wellbeing (anti-inflamatory, anti-oxidant, lower blood sugar, etc, etc) just like I do my cannabis. Cannabis is actually more medicinal, I want as much cannabanoids running through my system as possible. Have a relative with cancer in your direct lineage? Yeah that'll help you think of it more as a hopeful toke to protect your life.
I think the problem is the question being asked. In my eyes "drug" addiction is a negative implication to a substance, either to you or those close to you. If there is a patient out there taking opioids daily for pain management, I wouldn't consider them an addicted to the medicine, if anything they're addicted to less suffering.
I think the problem is the question being asked. In my eyes "drug" addiction is a negative implication to a substance, either to you or those close to you. If there is a patient out there taking opioids daily for pain management, I wouldn't consider them an addicted to the medicine, if anything they're addicted to less suffering.
EverythingsHazy
Well-Known Member
Lol that’s fine. I think the DSM is extremely useful in helping trained professionals diagnose people properly.
That’s because people, especially here, tend to trash all modern medicine and professional doctors, and instead, support anecdotal evidence and random internet pages. They also pretend to have the knowledge of professionally trained medical doctors after reading a few online articles.
No, your perception is off IMO, you seem to generalize frequently in other threads about this too, like the entire cannabis community is out to get modern medicine!
Have you not seen all of the posts on here that shit on antidepressants, despite the fact that they work wonders for some people. Or the people who claim you can cure psychiatric disorders with exercise, diet, and a good attitude. That’s just wrong. You can’t cure everything in the most efficient/effective way, while also completely avoiding modern medicine. There is a reason people with good diets, exercise regimens, and attitudes, die of illnesses that can be cured, when they don’t treat them properly.
biohacker
H.R.E.A.M
Yes, I have. And what's wrong with that? Surely some people (myself included) have or know someone that has had god awful experiences with SSRI's?
Perhaps your perception is off, and you meant manage? I'd like to personally see evidence of claims of "cures" but i'm bipolar and have ptsd/anxiety disorder on top of a bunch of other garbage, and am managing because of exercise (the gym is my CHURCH), diet, and a good attitude. Oh, and
!!!Yeah, you have no bias!
EverythingsHazy
Well-Known Member
What’s wrong with that? It’s ignorant. That’s what’s wrong with it. Having an adverse reaction to a medication does not mean it is not effective. There are reasons people try several meds from the same class and from other classes, before giving up. To tell people who have disorders, that they shouldn't listen to their doctor's recommendation of SSRI's or similar drugs, is extremely irresponsible. That is especially true, if the reason for preaching negative things about an entire class of drugs, is the anecdotal experience of one or two people someone knows.Yes, I have. And what's wrong with that? Surely some people (myself included) have or know someone that has had god awful experiences with SSRI's?
Perhaps your perception is off, and you meant manage? I'd like to personally see evidence of claims of "cures" but i'm bipolar and have ptsd/anxiety disorder on top of a bunch of other garbage, and am managing because of exercise (the gym is my CHURCH), diet, and a good attitude. Oh, and
Yeah, you have no bias!
I know there is a claim here, about prayer being able to cure illness. I can easily get it, but I rather not single out the poster. Perhaps, "cure" is not always the word used, but "treat", "remedy", and yes, "cure", have all been mentioned a number of times on this forum, in regards to simple things like diet/exercise/prayer/etc..
Are you clinically diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder, or did you decide that yourself? That’s one of the disorders that is supposed to be medicated, according to professional psychiatrists. Sure, you might manage without meds, but you might not also have as severe a case as many others. Exercise is definitely not enough for most people with diagnosed Bipolar Disorder. It does help overall, to have a good exercise regimen. but it's not a cure for Bipolar Disorder. Having a good diet, and exercising regularly, doesn't prevent the alternating periods of depression and mania that are associated with Bipolar Disorder.
I never said I have no bias, but I don’t have an extreme bias towards “natural” remedies or modern medicine. I don’t believe either are perfect. People who dismiss modern medicine are ignorant.
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Some people do that; yes. Just as some use broad generalities as logical fallacies.
If there are enough to warrant treating everyone as though they hold those beliefs without bothering to verify that "fact"? then I at least have not.
My personal opinion expressed in these forums has always been:
- while antidepressants work wonders for some; they are extremely overprescribed and counter productive for many.
- if a disorder is caused by an underlying physical condition then you should treat the underlying condition. A variety of underDxd conditions can cause depression. For example, B12 deficiency.
- exercise and diet won't cure a psychiatric disorder; however, conditions that can be exasperated by poor diet/exercise make addressing such even more important.
- not a fan of "happy think". Probably not as harmful as self deluding in the other direction but still.
While I'm not a fan of the great white sky daddy myself? Some highly accredited scientists do hold those beliefs. Shall we disregard all they accomplish for not agreeing with you?
OK much more generalizing as well. I actually agree with a fair bit of your conclusions. I take issue to the depth and zealotry with which they are held, and the methodology used to reach them. No worries; I'm out.
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biohacker
H.R.E.A.M
... getting out of hand here, so what the heck ... might as well throw in my 2cents!I've been on the SSRI's, lithium, Concerta, ..., and alcohol, and tobacco, and cannabis; ultimately I'm trying to manage my emotional distress from underlying conditions and behavioural patterns formed over a lifetime w/ issues.
Anyways ... the SSRI's did not help me, neither did Concerta, the SSRI's actually ended up being REALLY bad for me, lithium helped me through a tough patch though, and cannabis is my go-to for keeping things level and has the least significant negative impact on my life; that being said, the lithium definitely did help me, and it served it's purpose.
Ultimately, like I said, everything is just symptom management, fixing anything comes down to long term therapy and work; that maybe I'm getting to, and thus the ability to drop the lithium more recently that seemed so necessary about a year ago.
Perhaps someday I will get to the point of using cannabis just recreationally, as my need to manage my symptoms might abate if I deal with the root causes of the issues; anyways ... the way you feel affects your brain chemistry, and your brain chemistry affects the way you feel; so often I feel it's a chicken/egg question. Is it the brain chemistry that's the problem and causes the behavior or the behavior that causes the brain chemistry? I don't know if that's really a useful question ... this is where I feel modern medicine does come into play ... it can help you re-adjust your brain chemistry artificially while you try to re-adjust it through changing your thinking patterns ... so am I bipolar because I was born that way or because of a series of experiences have set my patterns in such a way that it has made my brain work this way? I'm not really sure ... and I have a feeling it's a bit of both. I'm susceptible to be that way, but it is my life experiences that have sealed the deal.
Anyways ... I'm of the opinion that everything has it's place, cannabis and modern medicine.
The reason cannabis users get so defensive and are so anti-modern medicine, is for years most people practicing modern medicine have been telling them emphatically they are wrong about cannabis, without really bothering to do the proper research, and instead have been trying to get them to take pills to deal with their issues (which have often been less effective)
As modern medicine warms up to holistic approaches, one may find holistic practitioners also warming up more to modern medicine.
Anyways ... this is just my opinion, but it is based on a lifetime of experience, and many, many, many discussions with professionals (doctors, psychiatrists, psychologists, therapists, ..., not sure if I would call a therapist a professional ... generally I feel like I'm more qualified when talking to a "therapist" ...)
uncanni
Well-Known Member
Well-written, JCat!!! I can identify with so much of what you write. As someone who's been taking SSRI's since the mid-1990s, I can report this about my own experience:
I've been on the SSRI's, lithium, Concerta, ..., and alcohol, and tobacco, and cannabis; ultimately I'm trying to manage my emotional distress from underlying conditions and behavioural patterns formed over a lifetime w/ issues.
Anyways ... the SSRI's did not help me, neither did Concerta, the SSRI's actually ended up being REALLY bad for me, lithium helped me through a tough patch though, and cannabis is my go-to for keeping things level and has the least significant negative impact on my life; that being said, the lithium definitely did help me, and it served it's purpose.
Ultimately, like I said, everything is just symptom management, fixing anything comes down to long term therapy and work; that maybe I'm getting to, and thus the ability to drop the lithium more recently that seemed so necessary about a year ago.
Perhaps someday I will get to the point of using cannabis just recreationally, as my need to manage my symptoms might abate if I deal with the root causes of the issues; anyways ... the way you feel affects your brain chemistry, and your brain chemistry affects the way you feel; so often I feel it's a chicken/egg question. Is it the brain chemistry that's the problem and causes the behavior or the behavior that causes the brain chemistry? I don't know if that's really a useful question ... this is where I feel modern medicine does come into play ... it can help you re-adjust your brain chemistry artificially while you try to re-adjust it through changing your thinking patterns ... so am I bipolar because I was born that way or because of a series of experiences have set my patterns in such a way that it has made my brain work this way? I'm not really sure ... and I have a feeling it's a bit of both. I'm susceptible to be that way, but it is my life experiences that have sealed the deal.
Anyways ... I'm of the opinion that everything has it's place, cannabis and modern medicine.
The reason cannabis users get so defensive and are so anti-modern medicine, is for years most people practicing modern medicine have been telling them emphatically they are wrong about cannabis, without really bothering to do the proper research, and instead have been trying to get them to take pills to deal with their issues (which have often been less effective)
As modern medicine warms up to holistic approaches, one may find holistic practitioners also warming up more to modern medicine.
Anyways ... this is just my opinion, but it is based on a lifetime of experience, and many, many, many discussions with professionals (doctors, psychiatrists, psychologists, therapists, ..., not sure if I would call a therapist a professional ... generally I feel like I'm more qualified when talking to a "therapist" ...)
The SSRIs have always succeeded in abating depression and anxiety, but never in eliminating them altogether. I am quite cynical about SSRIs because it seems to be a complete crap shoot as to which one you get prescribed at what dosage, although I assume there is some science to that. But no one ever knew anything about my brain chemistry when they prescribed this SSRI or that one; hence, I conclude it's a crap shoot.
CBD cannabis strains have been extremely helpful for seriously abating chronic anxiety. I've been experimenting for a few months, and I continue to experiment, but after 3 months' exposure to strains containing CBD, I definitely feel calmer and more able to think through a stressful situation rather than simply react defensively.
His_Highness
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king
Am I the only person who knows someone who's mind-body connection is so strong that when they get stressed it manifests itself in a physical illness/reaction? I don't believe in the great white sky daddy either but I marvel at those who can "pray" their way to some relief.
My grandmother would break out in hives whenever she had to travel by plane. Another person close to me gets extreme nausea and passes out when presented with really bad news.
There are times when I've wished "I believed" as strongly as those who can cause a physical change in themselves through thought.
Anyone addicted to meditation and prayer?
My grandmother would break out in hives whenever she had to travel by plane. Another person close to me gets extreme nausea and passes out when presented with really bad news.
There are times when I've wished "I believed" as strongly as those who can cause a physical change in themselves through thought.
Anyone addicted to meditation and prayer?
nosmoking
Just so Dab HAppy!
My mother has referred to all 3 of my children as angels. Spill some milk...pray. She loses her keys...pray. Cop pulls her over for speeding...pray. Running late for a meeting...pray. Left a light on...pray. Cannot remember directions or designation...pray. Gonna be inconvienced by a long line...pray. I swear she prays every 5 minutes. Shes spastic and hyperactive as can be.
OMG! I just realized my mom is completely addicted to GOD and prayer! How do I setup an intervention for that?$!?
His_Highness
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king
Quick...take away her worry beads/rosary, candles, religious picture, idols, prayer shawl, bible and felt pictures of Elvis and start playing Black Sabbath really loud!!!!!
EverythingsHazy
Well-Known Member
If you are implying that I am the "some" who use broad generalities, I'd like to see where. I said that people here tend to be against modern medicine. With the backlash I've gotten from my stance that both modern medicine and natural medicine (Cannabis in particular) have both pros and cons, that is certainly my experience.
I mostly agree with you.
I wouldn't say that medicine for psychiatric issues is extremely over-prescribed, though. I think a lot of people have psychiatric issues, and can benefit from some form of medication I don't think everyone who needs them is on them. I wouldn't doubt that some people don't really need them, but I don't think they are the majority.
I'm also all for staying positive and visualization and such, because I know the brain is very powerful and has capabilities that we don't understand fully, not to mention the fact that our bodies just perform better when we aren't stressed out, but I would never advise anyone to do that as an alternative to modern medicine.
No, but I would be surprised to see any highly acclaimed scientist give a recommendation for prayer over modern medicine.
That may be true, but it’s foolish and childish.
Wow ... in my post I mostly came to your defense, saying I'm a firm believer in modern medicine as well, but also cannabis, and therapeutic and holistic approaches ... out of that, all you take is you attack me for trying to offer an empathetic point of view to those who have been mistreated in many cases (even just by the way they have been made to feel) by the medical establishment. I'm not sure if you were calling me childish and foolish, or if you were calling those who have those opinions childish and foolish, but either way man, shows a serious lack of empathy.
All I was doing was suggesting a potential explanation as to why many cannabis users are so defensive and anti-modern medicine ... I didn't even agree with it, although I 100% empathize with it and have felt that way personally, and justifiably so as certain doctors and psychiatrists certainly have treated me poorly and not giving me proper credit for my experience, education, nor feelings. (luckily my current primary doctor, as well as psychologist, are absolutely wonderful and helpful and not this way at all, but instead thoughtful, understanding, up-to-date, and open minded)
Anyways, I know I shouldn't let online stuff bother me, and I generally don't, and done is done, and all is forgiven man, but this one really bothered me.
biohacker
H.R.E.A.M
@JCat i'm surprised you don't remember some of that poster's other threads? Nothing new here... don't let trolling get to you bro, you're better than that. Perhaps now you will appreciate why Krazy and I bailed.
"Addicted" because you vape every day?
"Addicted" because you vape every day?