"Addicted" because you vape every day?

[Mookie0608]

You have serious issues if you you see other wise. Hospitals do not put guns to peoples head and force them to put a needle in their arm nobody does it’s a choice. You choose to do heroin and all that other bs. All I’m saying is act your age and admit it’s a CHOICE you made. You 100%!have a choice in what you put in your body. All I’m saying is it’s not right or fair that people can’t accept responsibility for their own action and they have to cry to get people to feel bad for them instead of owning up to their mistakes and the result people like me are losing out medication that is effective works and there’s nothing wrong with. Opioids are not dangerous when taken as prescribed and same goes with narcotics but they should only be administered via a nurse. I been on narcotic and opioid pain killers all my life and never got addicted or chose to do other drugs because I’m stronger then that I don’t need to cry for attention. That’s all I’m saying people don’t take responsibility for their actions and addiction or what ever u want to call that bs is a more of a choice then anything your choosing to put it in your body. I get in heated arguments all the time with my own family because i hate it when someone has something to say to defend a junky wether they are blood or not. I don’t feel bad for anyone who over doses from choosing to put something in their body that that fully 100% new goes from being harmless to dangerous when not administered by a nurse or taken as prescribed. Again I’m talking about those people who will take several pills at one time not the ones who take as prescribed.

 

[biohacker]

I highly doubt a all natural plant is addicting

Addiction is an excuse for the weak. People act their show size over their own age

You have serious issues if you you see other wise.

I get in heated arguments all the time with my own family

Shocking!!!

 

[Tranquility]

It's too bad so many of the concepts are subtle enough to require a lot of writing to really distinguish between the positions. All I wanted to add, based on the last few posts, comes from some classes and reading I did when my sister went in to rehab for alcohol. It was an in-hospital care and it was expensive. Part of the care were the classes for others who cared about the patients. The main focus on the classes had to do with the science behind the disease model of alcoholism. There was a LOT more trying to convince us the patient was sick and not weak. That is one of the main benefits of the disease model, it helps get people into treatment. Most go to the doctor when sick, fewer go when weak.

Fair enough--until I got to the cycle of abuse portion of the program. They had pictures of brains and lots of links to study and cool graphics showing how all the GABA and other things interact to form addiction.

Having been a coach for a very long time, I asked a question the instructor did not answer.

How does the cycle of addiction differ from simple learning?

 

[Krazy]

You obviously don't know how addictions work pal. If it was just an excuse as you say, would there be an entire medical specialty dedicated to their study and treatment?

I do agree that addiction is a real thing. But colour me cynical as to the altruism of the medical community, lol.

Been vaping for over 20 years and I ain't addicted, man.

Keep working at it!

 

[EverythingsHazy]

You have serious issues if you you see other wise. Hospitals do not put guns to peoples head and force them to put a needle in their arm nobody does it’s a choice. You choose to do heroin and all that other bs. All I’m saying is act your age and admit it’s a CHOICE you made. You 100%!have a choice in what you put in your body. All I’m saying is it’s not right or fair that people can’t accept responsibility for their own action and they have to cry to get people to feel bad for them instead of owning up to their mistakes and the result people like me are losing out medication that is effective works and there’s nothing wrong with. Opioids are not dangerous when taken as prescribed and same goes with narcotics but they should only be administered via a nurse. I been on narcotic and opioid pain killers all my life and never got addicted or chose to do other drugs because I’m stronger then that I don’t need to cry for attention. That’s all I’m saying people don’t take responsibility for their actions and addiction or what ever u want to call that bs is a more of a choice then anything your choosing to put it in your body. I get in heated arguments all the time with my own family because i hate it when someone has something to say to defend a junky wether they are blood or not. I don’t feel bad for anyone who over doses from choosing to put something in their body that that fully 100% new goes from being harmless to dangerous when not administered by a nurse or taken as prescribed. Again I’m talking about those people who will take several pills at one time not the ones who take as prescribed.

Do yourself a favor. Pick up a book about the biology of addiction.
Do everyone else a favor. Use paragraphs.

Having been a coach for a very long time, I asked a question the instructor did not answer.

How does the cycle of addiction differ from simple learning?

Can you elaborate on that question, a bit?

 

[Tranquility]

Do yourself a favor. Pick up a book about the biology of addiction.
Do everyone else a favor. Use paragraphs.


Can you elaborate on that question, a bit?

The addiction cycle they talked about and showed studies on was not different from basic reinforcement theory. They talked about it in terms of brain chemicals and the like, but, it was the same process as learning.

Basic reinforcement. Turn on the lights, we're getting fed!

 

[JCat]

You have serious issues if you you see other wise. Hospitals do not put guns to peoples head and force them to put a needle in their arm nobody does it’s a choice. You choose to do heroin and all that other bs. All I’m saying is act your age and admit it’s a CHOICE you made. You 100%!have a choice in what you put in your body. All I’m saying is it’s not right or fair that people can’t accept responsibility for their own action and they have to cry to get people to feel bad for them instead of owning up to their mistakes and the result people like me are losing out medication that is effective works and there’s nothing wrong with. Opioids are not dangerous when taken as prescribed and same goes with narcotics but they should only be administered via a nurse. I been on narcotic and opioid pain killers all my life and never got addicted or chose to do other drugs because I’m stronger then that I don’t need to cry for attention. That’s all I’m saying people don’t take responsibility for their actions and addiction or what ever u want to call that bs is a more of a choice then anything your choosing to put it in your body. I get in heated arguments all the time with my own family because i hate it when someone has something to say to defend a junky wether they are blood or not. I don’t feel bad for anyone who over doses from choosing to put something in their body that that fully 100% new goes from being harmless to dangerous when not administered by a nurse or taken as prescribed. Again I’m talking about those people who will take several pills at one time not the ones who take as prescribed.

Wow.

Obviously you have never suffered from addiction; often addiction co-occurs with mental health conditions, and is used as a method to deal with conditions that feel out of one's control. It is not a matter of weakness but a matter of survival often, and this type of attitude is a detriment to one getting better. I'd like to see how you fare with an undiagnosed mental condition for almost 40 years of your life, just trying to get by and can't figure out how to get better. Until I dealt with my mental health issues, stopping drinking was almost impossible, and if you choose to call me weak for that. That's fine, you are entitled to that opinion, but I didn't choose to be born this way.

I on the other hand consider myself to be strong. I made it out the other side, and let me tell you that its not easy to change 25 years of coping behaviours. I was doing the best I could to cope with a condition out of my control, and I was simply trying to get by and make it through another day without everything collapsing. One is not weak for doing the best they can, when their is no help anywhere, and anywhere they turn to, they are turned away. I was persistent, and it took me 6 years to find any help and get closer to an answer, and now I'm 3 more years down that road, and I feel like I have finally made progress. It has taken me a decade of extremely hard work to change this behaviour, and to deal with the underlying issues so then not drinking became much easier.

Perhaps you should try to understand and empathize as opposed to judging @Mookie0608 ?

 

[biohacker]

It's probably already been mentioned in this thread before, but apparently there is a difference between addiction and dependency.

Regardless, anyone can change their addiction or dependency or relationship with whatever drug, with effort and time. If they so have the intention.

 

[verdampersweats]

I could quit i quit smoking and i quit alcohol i am looking at sugar next but the problem is smoking left me with urges that regular vaping solved. I never broke the fiddly bored habit i just feel things are boring without weed.


Sure you sleep less and sweat when you quit, You will be irritable but will i go steal for weed or sell my body? Hell no i could go without but the question is this addiction? I mean it also calms me and solves other ailments so it would be a dependancy that also just happens to replace alcohol as well.


The multifunctional nature of cannabis could mean you enjoy recreational weed at the weekend and do not use alcohol or drugs just plants you could say be a vegan ok? So what happens if the doc says you should use it for a mild ailment? What if you use it for period pain relief? Is this person then also dependant but not addicted because they use it now during the week? To me addiction dependancy is the crack house murder stuff you seen on tv not the above.

 

[ClearBlueLou]

Cannabis is in a class of “drug material” that American medicine doesn’t believe in: a tonic, something with a wide range of noticeable, appreciable benefits to the health and well-being of the user, and little to no significant downside with regular use.

I take ibuprofen every day to keep down inflammation. Do I depend on it? Yeah, I do - without it, I feel 80, not 70. Is that a problem? Only if I want to control inflammation.

I use cannabis every day when I can, several times a day, to finish the job on the inflammation and to encourage my joints to open up, give me range of motion, and get me up- and downstairs (gawd, I sound pathetic), and generally give me great focus, real creativity, and a better attitude. Do I depend on it? For almost all of what it does, you bet - there’s no substitute, there’s not even a second-place. Is that a a problem? Only if I can’t do the things life requires of me *because* of it....

 

[Squiby]

I vape every day, all day long. But, I rely on several herbs prepared in several ways to make my life more comfortable. Cannabis is just one of them.

A nice cup of tea in the morning helps me get ready for the day.

A few tokes of Durban Poison every couple of hours gives my old bones the energy and endurance to complete the daily chores around the property and in the house.

A few plantain leaves soothe and erase the sting from a bee or wasp.

A simmering chai decoction helps me to absorb nutrients from my food more efficiently.

A combination of essential oils will repel insects and ticks when I'm out and about.

Dandelion greens sauteed in butter and garlic provides much nourishment. And the tea strengthens my immune system.

A strong cup of chamomile tea at night will knock me out before you can say 'bedtime' and provide a wonderfully deep sleep.

A nice bowl of a high CBC Remedy will squash nausea in a few minutes.

A tiny bit of RSO or cannabis infused coconut oil will ease pain and help me sleep during episodes of chronic pain.

A poultice of herbs and castor oil heal all types of maladies.

I rely on all sorts of herbs in my life every single day and I think that that's the way it's meant to be. I wouldn't consider myself addicted to anything. Rather I've broken free from the contrived artificial OTC remedies that potentially place us in harm's way and the pharmaceutical drugs that often represent a clear danger.

 

[Gigsabits53]

I have an addictive personality. I'm not a physician but it's pretty easy to diagnose if you're honest with yourself. I use to smoke cigarettes and quit, with the help of chewing tobacco, which I still use. I also was a heavy drinker for many years, quit 5 years ago. I do have an occasional beer, but it's rare.

I vape cannabis every day, all day, as long as I can get it and have it available. I don't plan on quitting any time soon. Am I addicted? Not in the way most people would think. I work from home so I have structure, in other words, I have something to do every day. My day is based on my work schedule, meal times, etc. Consequently, I have times of the day where I am vaping. It's not a conscious thought, like after a meal, I grab a chew and the next thing is loading my vape.

I guess, for me at least, it becomes more of a ritual. I notice that when I don't have any, it's like the structure of my day is messed up, if that makes any sense.

Also, I'm probably a bit more irritable without cannabis. So I would say there is some sort of an addiction there. That doesn't bother me so much, at my age I know myself pretty well. Quitting alcohol has been a major benefit to me. That can be such a destructive drug.

 

[LesPlenty]

So it is politically incorrect to call pot marijuana?, I have heard it all now...so MMC instead of MMJ, sounds like a puffy pants band

I like hooch all day every day in every way.

 

[biohacker]

I'm presently recovering from my cannabis use disorder, and found this podcast extremely helpful and informative. I encourage everyone to have a listen and see how it resonates with your own relationship.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podca...diction-part-one/id1454778112?i=1000444196029

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podca...-two-with-jeremy/id1454778112?i=1000445386016

 

[Krazy]

I'm presently recovering from my cannabis use disorder, and found this podcast extremely helpful and informative. I encourage everyone to have a listen and see how it resonates with your own relationship.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podca...diction-part-one/id1454778112?i=1000444196029

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podca...-two-with-jeremy/id1454778112?i=1000445386016

"Addiction happens when momentary desire takes over our win power. "

Well OK then! I'v got to listen now.

 

[ClearBlueLou]

So it is politically incorrect to call pot marijuana?, I have heard it all now...so MMC instead of MMJ, sounds like a puffy pants band

I like hooch all day every day in every way.

How about it’s the botanical name, not a slang term associated with a history of incarceration.
Don’t see anything political about it, except that prohibition has always been political....

I call it whatever when I’m speaking casually to a casual audience; but there’s a lot of law and careers and details involved, so if I’m talking about stuff like that, I talk cannabis, because I’m trying to be specific and make specific point about THE PLANT...and leave as much baggage behind as I can when doing so.

I figure I have the verbal skills and the vocabulary, why *not* use them?

And yeah, I have my own form of ‘all day, every day, every way’...

 

[Tranquility]

When pot is legal, more people use pot. The more people who use pot, the more people who have a problem with it. How many more? About 1/4.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/article-abstract/2755276

Findings In this multilevel, difference-in-difference survey study with 505 796 respondents comparing marijuana use before and after the legalization of recreational marijuana in the United States, the proportion of respondents aged 12 to 17 years reporting cannabis use disorder increased from 2.18% to 2.72%, while the proportion of respondents 26 years or older reporting frequent marijuana use increased from 2.13% to 2.62% and those with cannabis use disorder, from 0.90% to 1.23%.​

 

[Cannabiker]

When pot is legal, more people use pot. The more people who use pot, the more people who have a problem with it. How many more? About 1/4.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/article-abstract/2755276

Findings In this multilevel, difference-in-difference survey study with 505 796 respondents comparing marijuana use before and after the legalization of recreational marijuana in the United States, the proportion of respondents aged 12 to 17 years reporting cannabis use disorder increased from 2.18% to 2.72%, while the proportion of respondents 26 years or older reporting frequent marijuana use increased from 2.13% to 2.62% and those with cannabis use disorder, from 0.90% to 1.23%.​

Many of the criteria for CUD become moot points under legalization, making regular use seem less onerous than it did under prohibition. I believe this will lead to fewer reported cases of CUD. And it seems like there's always a study to support one's particular viewpoint; I'm going to go with this one:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0376871619303989?via=ihub

Results
From 2002–2016, the prevalence of CUD among people reporting daily/almost daily cannabis use decreased by 26.8% in adolescents, by 29.7% in ages 18–25, and by 37.5% in ages 26 + . Prevalence of DSM-IV cannabis dependence decreased significantly among adolescents (-43.9%) and young adults (-26.8%) but remained stable in adults 26 + . Reductions in most dependence items were observed in young adults, with less consistent patterns in adolescents and adults 26 + . Prevalence of DSM-IV cannabis abuse decreased overall and for each abuse item across all age groups.

Conclusions
Contrary to expectations, CUD prevalence decreased significantly across all ages reporting daily/almost daily cannabis use between 2002–2016. Cannabis dependence prevalence decreased for adolescents and young adults and was stable only among adults ages 26+ reporting daily/almost daily cannabis use. Potential drivers of this decrease should be further explored.

 

[Tranquility]

Many of the criteria for CUD become moot points under legalization, making regular use seem less onerous than it did under prohibition. I believe this will lead to fewer reported cases of CUD. And it seems like there's always a study to support one's particular viewpoint; I'm going to go with this one:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0376871619303989?via=ihub

There is a difference between those reporting a use disorder before and after legalization (and the number who use) and those who use every day and who fall under the DSM on a use disorder. The latter requires a guess by the researcher as to if the subject is...well if all the usually self-reported issues are true.

How the researcher in the latter case came to the conclusion on the subjects is beyond me. Perhaps it is because the definitions used for a use disorder DSM-IV only required a single criterion rather than the DSM-V need for two criteria.

Now, consider the researcher's problem when the criteria for a use disorder (using alcohol as an example) are:

Found that drinking—or being sick from drinking—often interfered with taking care of your home or family? Or caused job troubles? Or school problems?

More than once gotten into situations while or after drinking that increased your chances of getting hurt (such as driving, swimming, using machinery, walking in a dangerous area, or having unsafe sex)?

More than once gotten arrested, been held at a police station, or had other legal problems because of your drinking?
**This is not included in DSM–5**

Continued to drink even though it was causing trouble with your family or friends?

Had to drink much more than you once did to get the effect you want? Or found that your usual number of drinks had much less effect than before?

Found that when the effects of alcohol were wearing off, you had withdrawal symptoms, such as trouble sleeping, shakiness, restlessness, nausea, sweating, a racing heart, or a seizure? Or sensed things that were not there?

Had times when you ended up drinking more, or longer, than you intended?

More than once wanted to cut down or stop drinking, or tried to, but couldn’t?

Spent a lot of time drinking? Or being sick or getting over other aftereffects?

Given up or cut back on activities that were important or interesting to you, or gave you pleasure, in order to drink?

Continued to drink even though it was making you feel depressed or anxious or adding to another health problem? Or after having had a memory blackout?​

Other than the item having to do with being arrested or other legal problems (no longer in the criteria), a retrospective study on the other questions seems to engender just a bit of guess work. In the study I posted, the authors used data from the same data set as the one showing a reduction (different years) and asked a question that CAN be answered.

Finally, if we assume both studies are correct, can we describe a possible path? Yes. If we combine both studies, we'd find that daily users are not at increased risk of use disorders because of legalization while more casual users are. (I'm not claiming that's the case, it's just a statement that can be true if both studies are right.)

​