"Addicted" because you vape every day?

[grampa_herb]

I do notice that I sleep better after vaping a bowl in the evening. I also notice that if I don't vape that evening I can have trouble going to sleep. Maybe that is a sign of a dependence? I've also had vacation T-breaks where I fly somewhere for a week and don't bring any cannabis with me. After the first night or two I return to my regular sleep pattern and don't notice any other urges or pains for not vaping. Of course when I return home it is always nice to have a session again.

It's hard for me to sleep without it. I consider it a dependency I am OK with.

 

[C No Ego]

scientifically finding that cannabis phyto-molecules are cellular food is enough to justify daily administration... even Jungle folks know cannabis is good in teas and soups... they could be addicted too though

 

[Kosherbubba]

A friend told me of a recent article, among the list of yahoo news articles, that discussed marijuana addiction. The author implied that those who use cannabis each day would be considered addicted to marijuana.

Can you really judge addiction by frequency of use alone? If so then I would be addicted because I vape about .1 of a gram each evening (Maybe a bit more on weekends ) .

However, I'm able to maintain my life and job very well. In fact, I believe that my daily use contributes to my overall mental health by reducing stress and other bullshit in life.

I've had to travel and "go without" for weeks at a time, and while I'd rather have a session before bed, I wasn't twitching in the corner.

Am I addicted to marijuana?

Micro dosing is the way to go. My doctor who prescribed me cannabis said that only 6% of users get addicted enough to be considered a problem. According to my doctor anything below 2 grams a day is fine. Anything above 2 grams a day may start becoming non benificial to the user and the user may notiice side effects are noticable to the user.

Although compared to any pharmacueticals out there the side effects are still nothing compared to heavy pharmacueticals.

 

[EverythingsHazy]

I wouldn’t say you are addicted to cannabis if you use it everyday but i would say you are addicted if you HAVE to use it everyday.

This is a good guideline. The thing is, what do you define as "HAVE to"? When I posted saying that it can take a break that's several days long to realize if Cannabis is making you more mellow/tired even on days you haven't vaporized. people said they'd just go on not knowing, in order to avoid that test break. If you are unable to avoid it for several days in order to determine the true effect is is having on your life, that's a bit of an issue.

Interesting question...
The definition of addiction is:

(Dictionary.com) the state of being enslaved to a habit or practiceor to something that is psychologically or physically habit-forming, as narcotics, to such an extent that its cessation causes severe trauma.

(Mental health.net) Addiction is the repeated involvement with a substance or activity, despite the substantial harm it now causes, because that involvement was (and may continue to be) pleasurable and/or valuable.

(Psychologytoday.com) Addiction is a condition that results when a person ingests a substance (for example, alcohol, cocaine, nicotine) or engages in an activity (such as gambling, sex, shopping) that can be pleasurable but the continuation of which becomes compulsive and interferes with ordinary responsibilities and concerns, such as work, relationships, or health. People who have developed an addiction may not be aware that their behavior is out of control and causing problems for themselves and others.

I think the Psychology Today rings the clearest to my personal definition with the “continuation of which becomes compulsive and interferes with ordinary responsibilities and concerns.”
If it is harming you or others in an emotional, physical or financial way and you are unable to stop, then (in my opinion) that is what qualifies as an addiction.

I agree that addiction generally has a negative component.

The tricky thing, is that people will be in full denial that their habit may be having negative effects on their life. Just try saying something potentially negative about Cannabis on here, and everyone will jump down your throat. Just look at some of the posts I've made that have gotten such heated responses. People like that genuinely have convinced themselves that Cannabis is 100% perfect, with no negatives, and will fight to the death to defend that belief.

Selective bias and confirmation bias both play a big role in this.

in my opinion i think the problem is this : "People who have developed an addiction may not be aware that their behavior is out of control and causing problems for themselves and others." and always wonder my self the same addiction question but not idea how to do a check of reality that validated that you are not causing problem with others , sometimes people for love or lack of it never say the thing straight in your face and when you get aware of you situation maybe is too late . this is only a shower of thoughts that come to my mind when i read this thread i am not intent to get to a point but just maybe put more variable to the conversation that is going on here.

It helps to have someone you see or at least communicate with daily, that you can openly discuss your Cannabis use with, who can tell you if they notice a difference in your behavior while you're on an extended (>7 day) break, and when you are consuming Cannabis daily.

I've checked in with people to see if there is a difference in how often I go out. how willingly I do so, how physically active I am. etc.. It helps to get an outside perspective on yourself, since self-reflection is a tricky topic. The same way you might not see yourself getting fat until you've unknowingly gained 25lbs and look back at an old picture. you might not see yourself slowly slipping into the classic, negative stoner lifestyle.

How do you distinguish between addicted and dependent? Every day use seems dependent to me but I don't stop myself because that would interfere with my productivity and well being way beyond the withdrawal period.

Dependence is in the process of solving a life problem. Addiction is what the problem's solution becomes, replacing the old problem with a new one.

Most meds I have used, including medicinal applications of alcohol and tobacco, shut down the part of my mind that self reflects. (I mention alcohol and tobacco merely for the sake of universal example).

Cannabis on the other hand optimizes the part of my mind that self reflects. I wonder how many more heavy cannabis users often question their dependence than do heavy alcohol or tobacco users. Or is my heightened self-reflective experience based on the relatively low daily dose I depend on?

"
The difference between addiction and dependence can be difficult to understand. Some organizations have different definitions, use the words interchangeably or even abandon both terms altogether. (“Substance use disorder” is a preferred term in the scientific community.) Because of this lack of consistency, some ground rules can help differentiate between the two terms.

When people use the term “dependence,” they are usually referring to a physical dependence on a substance. Dependence is characterized by the symptoms of tolerance and withdrawal. While it is possible to have a physical dependence without being addicted, addiction is usually right around the corner.

Addiction is marked by a change in behavior caused by the biochemical changes in the brain after continued substance abuse. Substance use becomes the main priority of the addict, regardless of the harm they may cause to themselves or others. An addiction causes people to act irrationally when they don’t have the substance they are addicted to in their system."

"When the symptoms of mental and physical dependence are apparent, an addiction is usually present. However, the main characteristic that distinguishes addiction from dependence is the combination of mental and physical dependence with uncontrollable behavior in obtaining and using a substance."

It's still a little muddy, but that should help a little bit. You can be dependent on heart medicine without being addicted to it.

It's a fascinating subject. I can't really comment form a normal perspective as I'm usually kind of obsessed with something or else I'm not very interested in it. I'm likely on the autistic spectrum a little.

I would ask the question though. Is it actually desirable for a person to have no addictions? That would also mean not having any obsessive interests. To win a sporting competition for example you'd likely have to be quite obsessed. Witness some athlete's frustration when they fail, it is clear the sport holds some addiction for them but we never seem to want to put tennis players in re-hab.
Rather should we try to steer our addictions to things that we genuinely find interesting and worthwhile and as safe as possible?

I would say a life without addiction/obsession is definitely better. That's not to say that a life without PASSION is better, though. A passion for fitness is great. An obsession or addiction to it. is unhealthy. You can be passionate about cat ownership and have a few cats that are well taken care of, or you can be obsessive and end up on Hoarders with 35 of them shitting on each other in your apartment.

scientifically finding that cannabis phyto-molecules are cellular food is enough to justify daily administration... even Jungle folks know cannabis is good in teas and soups... they could be addicted too though

I wouldn't say that having a benefit is "justification" for administration. Having a number of good qualities doesn't automatically negate the bad qualities. There is always a balance, and too much of anything is problematic.

 

[C No Ego]

This is a good guideline. The thing is, what do you define as "HAVE to"? When I posted saying that it can take a break that's several days long to realize if Cannabis is making you more mellow/tired even on days you haven't vaporized. people said they'd just go on not knowing, in order to avoid that test break. If you are unable to avoid it for several days in order to determine the true effect is is having on your life, that's a bit of an issue.


I agree that addiction generally has a negative component.

The tricky thing, is that people will be in full denial that their habit may be having negative effects on their life. Just try saying something potentially negative about Cannabis on here, and everyone will jump down your throat. Just look at some of the posts I've made that have gotten such heated responses. People like that genuinely have convinced themselves that Cannabis is 100% perfect, with no negatives, and will fight to the death to defend that belief.

Selective bias and confirmation bias both play a big role in this.


It helps to have someone you see or at least communicate with daily, that you can openly discuss your Cannabis use with, who can tell you if they notice a difference in your behavior while you're on an extended (>7 day) break, and when you are consuming Cannabis daily.

I've checked in with people to see if there is a difference in how often I go out. how willingly I do so, how physically active I am. etc.. It helps to get an outside perspective on yourself, since self-reflection is a tricky topic. The same way you might not see yourself getting fat until you've unknowingly gained 25lbs and look back at an old picture. you might not see yourself slowly slipping into the classic, negative stoner lifestyle.

"
The difference between addiction and dependence can be difficult to understand. Some organizations have different definitions, use the words interchangeably or even abandon both terms altogether. (“Substance use disorder” is a preferred term in the scientific community.) Because of this lack of consistency, some ground rules can help differentiate between the two terms.

When people use the term “dependence,” they are usually referring to a physical dependence on a substance. Dependence is characterized by the symptoms of tolerance and withdrawal. While it is possible to have a physical dependence without being addicted, addiction is usually right around the corner.

Addiction is marked by a change in behavior caused by the biochemical changes in the brain after continued substance abuse. Substance use becomes the main priority of the addict, regardless of the harm they may cause to themselves or others. An addiction causes people to act irrationally when they don’t have the substance they are addicted to in their system."

"When the symptoms of mental and physical dependence are apparent, an addiction is usually present. However, the main characteristic that distinguishes addiction from dependence is the combination of mental and physical dependence with uncontrollable behavior in obtaining and using a substance."

It's still a little muddy, but that should help a little bit. You can be dependent on heart medicine without being addicted to it.

I would say a life without addiction/obsession is definitely better. That's not to say that a life without PASSION is better, though. A passion for fitness is great. An obsession or addiction to it. is unhealthy. You can be passionate about cat ownership and have a few cats that are well taken care of, or you can be obsessive and end up on Hoarders with 35 of them shitting on each other in your apartment.

I wouldn't say that having a benefit is "justification" for administration. Having a number of good qualities doesn't automatically negate the bad qualities. There is always a balance, and too much of anything is problematic.

It's safe to say that addiction is a case of simple narrow mindedness.... the inability to focus on anything else in the world whle only focusing on one thing= narrow mindedness and addiction ... like a cannabis prohibitionist= they are hooked and that hate stance it feels good to them

gotta edit... thanks for sharing but common wisdom as I'd hope most people adhere to dictates negative to postive in their world and it's THEIR wrold decision... if this ( protect that guy shit, -he has not self control and I must control his actions ) did not keep coming up over and over that's the last I'd ever say anything about that

 

[C No Ego]

Micro dosing is the way to go. My doctor who prescribed me cannabis said that only 6% of users get addicted enough to be considered a problem. According to my doctor anything below 2 grams a day is fine. Anything above 2 grams a day may start becoming non benificial to the user and the user may notiice side effects are noticable to the user.

Although compared to any pharmacueticals out there the side effects are still nothing compared to heavy pharmacueticals.

real micro dose would be like 2 grams in two weeks LOL-- I like your doctor Man Awesome!

on a more serious note... we have so many cells with membrane ligand gated / voltage gated receptors channeling access to the nucleus of the cell via bio-chemical pathways ( intracellular endocannabinoid transmissions, endocannabinoid tone) that a few mg of bio-mimetic plant cannabinoids will hardly touch that system... we are talking how many receptor channels per cell and the amount of cells to make up just One Dude alone?= astounding numbers in the brain region alone and cannabinoid receptors spread throughout your entire body.. http://www.beyondthc.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/eCBSystemLee.pdf link on how neurosciences were started, hint- it has to do with cannabis...

and why people are not aware of ECS and cannabis better ( cough" doctors" un-cough) https://media.wix.com/ugd/b72a4e_e88348b93436e74dea366be39a6b47e2.pdf

And and,,, G-coupled protein receptor that

 

[Tranquility]

on a more serious note... we have so many cells with membrane ligand gated / voltage gated receptors channeling access to the nucleus of the cell via bio-chemical pathways ( intracellular endocannabinoid transmissions, endocannabinoid tone) that a few mg of bio-mimetic plant cannabinoids will hardly touch that system... we are talking how many receptor channels per cell and the amount of cells to make up just One Dude alone?= astounding numbers in the brain region alone and cannabinoid receptors spread throughout your entire body.. http://www.beyondthc.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/eCBSystemLee.pdf link on how neurosciences were started, hint- it has to do with cannabis...

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here. Are you claiming that a person can't use enough in a session to touch the entire system? (Because of the amount and not just because of slow diffusion to interstitial spaces.)

 

[C No Ego]

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here. Are you claiming that a person can't use enough in a session to touch the entire system? (Because of the amount and not just because of slow diffusion to interstitial spaces.)

that's what I'm sayin lol... for example how many actual cannabinoids are in a mg of thc in weight... average low dose vape session = say 5 to 10 mg thc delivered... how much molecular dispersion into cb receptors ( multiple cb receptors per cell) when we have millions- billions of cells?... keep in mind too thc has a low binding affinity and may not always find a receptor to fill... this is still quite unknown the exact amounts etc... but very interesting research.... pretty sure the last nail in coffin for prohibitionists to not prove how much biological activity is occurring in ECS... and helps people see how suppressed their ECS is because of their prohibition neighbor

 

[Tranquility]

that's what I'm sayin lol... for example how many actual cannabinoids are in a mg of thc in weight... average low dose vape session = say 5 to 10 mg thc delivered... how much molecular dispersion into cb receptors ( multiple cb receptors per cell) when we have millions- billions of cells?... keep in mind too thc has a low binding affinity and may not always find a receptor to fill... this is still quite unknown the exact amounts etc... but very interesting research.... pretty sure the last nail in coffin for prohibitionists to not prove how much biological activity is occurring in ECS... and helps people see how suppressed their ECS is because of their prohibition neighbor

It seems you are still arguing both amount and diffusion--completely different issues.

(Forgive the following as I'm trying to flash on high school a long time ago combined with a little GoogleFu.)

A mole of THC weighs about 244 grams. If we use 10mg as the dose, that means about 4.1 x 10^-5 moles of THC in the dose. Avogadro defined a mole as about 6.02 x 10^23. This leaves about 1.5 x 10^18 THC molecules in our dose.

The body has about 30-40 trillion cells. (3-4*10^12) That leaves about 5*10^5 molecules of THC available to every cell in the body.

First, can someone check my math? Second, while we would need to know how many receptors can be in a cell and how many molecules of THC are required to activate them to know for sure, I suspect the problem will not be found in chemical limits.

 

[C No Ego]

It seems you are still arguing both amount and diffusion--completely different issues.

(Forgive the following as I'm trying to flash on high school a long time ago combined with a little GoogleFu.)

A mole of THC weighs about 244 grams. If we use 10mg as the dose, that means about 4.1 x 10^-5 moles of THC in the dose. Avogadro defined a mole as about 6.02 x 10^23. This leaves about 1.5 x 10^18 THC molecules in our dose.

The body has about 30-40 trillion cells. (3-4*10^12) That leaves about 5*10^5 molecules of THC available to every cell in the body.

First, can someone check my math? Second, while we would need to know how many receptors can be in a cell and how many molecules of THC are required to activate them to know for sure, I suspect the problem will not be found in chemical limits.

Wow man! some cells too do not fire as often as say neurons that really suck up those metabolic signals quickly ( hence why the brain is first in line in cannabis molecule absorption)... I've listened to interviews with bio-chemists explaining how just thc alone ( marinol) will become multiple compounds upon assimilation / metabolism etc... thc / cbd are both 314 nano mol in size- if that's the correct terminology.... thanks man!

 

[CrispGreenLeaves]

A friend told me of a recent article, among the list of yahoo news articles, that discussed marijuana addiction. The author implied that those who use cannabis each day would be considered addicted to marijuana.

Can you really judge addiction by frequency of use alone? If so then I would be addicted because I vape about .1 of a gram each evening (Maybe a bit more on weekends ) .

However, I'm able to maintain my life and job very well. In fact, I believe that my daily use contributes to my overall mental health by reducing stress and other bullshit in life.

I've had to travel and "go without" for weeks at a time, and while I'd rather have a session before bed, I wasn't twitching in the corner.

Am I addicted to marijuana?

The term is "functional addict", however a plain old addict is someone would rather forget their kid at school and go to a dirty dumpster to pick up some fake heroin for $300 a gram, and get so blitz they are no longer on earth, because super duper high is greater than being here.

 

[grampa_herb]

So much depends on the individual. I know a dental hygienist who drinks herself into a stupor every day after work. She's been doing this for at least 20 years. Successful in her career, she probably will not live to see 60.

Eric Clapton was a heroin addict for years, but consistently toured and produced music the entire time.

 

[MinnBobber]

and why people are not aware of ECS and cannabis better ( cough" doctors" un-cough) https://media.wix.com/ugd/b72a4e_e88348b93436e74dea366be39a6b47e2.pdf

............................................................................
Excellent article but very depressing to know that ECS is barely touched on at most med schools or not even brought up at all

ECS is the key to it all as we "(hopefully) move beyond cannabis helping treat diseases (after the fact) to cannabis as a health supplement/ used to help prevent diseases and boost the ECS.

It's so sad that the med community (in general) is so wrapped up in the "cannabis is bad" syndrome. They should be leading the cannabis/ECS charge and they are often the nay-sayers. I chatted with a VA Dr about cannabis and I'll never forget her quote, " Well, you know what they say, if it sounds too good to be true....." Is there any institution in the world that could get a bigger benefit from cannabis than the VA-- with hundreds of thousands suffering from physical/mental/emotional issues???

The only thing worse than falling for a fake "too good to be true" product is ignoring/trampling something that is that good.

 

[Kosherbubba]

............................................................................


It's so sad that the med community (in general) is so wrapped up in the "cannabis is bad" syndrome.

It is sad but I feel the U.S.A is lying to the public about cannabis because the pharmas will loose billions. A medicine that will help thousands of conditions! Unbelievable that the U.S. still has cannabis as a class 1 narcotic with lorezapam, diazapam, herion, LSD. Its lighter than alcohol. And now its prescribed to kids! look at clips below

 

[C No Ego]

............................................................................
Excellent article but very depressing to know that ECS is barely touched on at most med schools or not even brought up at all

ECS is the key to it all as we "(hopefully) move beyond cannabis helping treat diseases (after the fact) to cannabis as a health supplement/ used to help prevent diseases and boost the ECS.

It's so sad that the med community (in general) is so wrapped up in the "cannabis is bad" syndrome. They should be leading the cannabis/ECS charge and they are often the nay-sayers. I chatted with a VA Dr about cannabis and I'll never forget her quote, " Well, you know what they say, if it sounds too good to be true....." Is there any institution in the world that could get a bigger benefit from cannabis than the VA-- with hundreds of thousands suffering from physical/mental/emotional issues???

The only thing worse than falling for a fake "too good to be true" product is ignoring/trampling something that is that good.

sounds to good to be true= no. just better than before cannabis prohibition and smoke only approved "marijuana" studies...

and I think this is a great thread! does that mean I'm addicted LOL??

 

[Dirtrider]

It is sad but I feel the U.S.A is lying to the public about cannabis

Add this to the long list of lies from the U.S. Gov. and its employees. I love the USA, but do not trust the government at all.

As to being addicted or needing it, that has been on my mind lately. I was typically only a weekend user but have been partaking during the week now and again and over the holidays. That concerns me a bit but I don't seen any adverse effects though but have to keep an eye on it. It helps me relax and sleep better and obviously feel good when relaxed. I also work out alot because it makes be feel better and be in a better mood. Am I addicted to working out because I feel like I need to do it or I really really want to work out for these reasons?

One thing I noticed inside my head is that I never batted an eye or considered I was addicted to alcohol when, in the past, I had one beer each day with dinner, but with cannabis I am having that conversation in my head. Why was I ok with beer each day but vaping a small amount an hour or two before bed is making me think about whether it should be weekend only??

 

[macbill]

I am a recovered alcoholic. I stopped drinking and using 31 yrs ago. After a few years of not drinking and using, I started using again. I'd be dead had I continued drinking the way I was drinking. I think I've transferred many of the addictive behaviors I had towards alcohol to cannabis. Now that I'm retired, I tend to start the day and continue using all day. Since I'm the only one that has to live with me, I don't get much guff. I doubt most people can tell I'm medicated, not that that matters.

I can say a day doesn't pass that I don't thank my lucky stars I don't drink anymore. I believe cannabis has helped me abstain from alcohol.

 

[vapirtoo]

Weed is one of the safest drugs around. I'm addicted to weed, and I use it everyday.
I never have an urge to use before going to work because the scrutiny there would make me very uncomfortable and
hinder me from doing a great job. My loving wife just scolded me, "Must you use weed every night, you must be addicted"!
I haven't had the heart to explain that she is right, and she should shut the fuck up as I take care of her, the grown ass kids,
and my job with ease, so WTF! I'm the only pot head in the house and my wife is the only one complaining about it.
I feel that with all of the drug shit out there, my pot usage is almost benign. I might let her read this post. Anyone with an extra
couch out there. LOL

 

[Alex3oe]

as I'm not allowed to vape each day atm, I relocated my addiction from vaping to buying vapes and dreaming of using them

 

[TeeJay1952]

This feels like an episode of Mom:
Hi I am Tee Jay and I am a mariholic.

 

[Rebelistic]

I would say a life without addiction/obsession is definitely better. That's not to say that a life without PASSION is better, though. A passion for fitness is great. An obsession or addiction to it. is unhealthy. You can be passionate about cat ownership and have a few cats that are well taken care of, or you can be obsessive and end up on Hoarders with 35 of them shitting on each other in your apartment.

I'm not so sure it's as easy to deffine. Is this guy an addict who needs re-hab before he kills himself or is he simply following his passion?

 

[Dirtrider]

Adrenaline Junkie. He gets likes on utube but if you microdose everyday, you are an addict. I always wonder why they don't wear a helmet all the time - same thrill - just saves the noggin so you can do more tricks tomorrow. I love to ride motorcycles, but I wear a ton of gear so that if I wreck, I will not be hurt and I can ride again tomorrow - people who really love what they do take steps so they can do it tomorrow. Sorry, OT.

 

[EverythingsHazy]

I'm not so sure it's as easy to deffine. Is this guy an addict who needs re-hab before he kills himself or is he simply following his passion?

Well, is it negatively affecting his life? Is he able to go without doing that activity?

You can be at the gym every day, and not be addicted to fitness, or you can be there every day and be strongly addicted to it. The first person would be fine with taking a few day shots off for a vacation, where the second person wouldn’t be able to comfortably do that, or would spend half their vacation at a different gym. Someone who is passionate about fitness will not push through workouts despite injuries. Someone who is addicted to it likely will.

 

[Rebelistic]

Well, is it negatively affecting his life? Is he able to go without doing that activity?

I don't know anything about him specifically but I can imagine someone who does this kind of activity will have a long list of injuries. I ride bikes myself and do some street/bmxy type things, nowhere in this guy's league but I feel it does satisfy some "need". If I couldn't do that then I'd probably do road cycling or something. I think it's a stretch to call it addiction but I can see how it could satisfy some addicive tendencies.

 

[Kosherbubba]

Weed is one of the safest drugs around. I'm addicted to weed, and I use it everyday.
LOL

Well my doctor said anything below 2 grams a day is fine. On another note only 6 percent of people actually become addicted to cannabis, true study. Remember addiction only becomes a problem when it affects how you function in your daily life. If it is affecting your job and home life than it may be a problem. But better to be on cannabis than pharma drugs that would have a plethora of side affects. Like you said cannabis is one of the safest medicines out there to use with very little side affects and dependency. I can go on and off of cannabis easily unlike anti anxiety meds, and other heavy pain medications.