A Discussion on ADHD and Cannabis

[Cannabiker]

I can't believe it took me this long to find this thread. Then again, it took me decades to realize I probably have undiagnosed ADHD, so it's par for the course.

It's not that no one tried. A little over 40 years ago my parents sent me to a few therapists to try and determine why my actuality fell so far short of my potential (at least as much as potential can be indicated by standardized testing). I don't think ADHD was as common a diagnosis back then (and it was still called ADD), and I think they tended to look for hperactivity as a primary indicator. But I wasn't bouncing off the walls physically (not more than other teens, anyway); it's in my head where things tend to ricochet. One quack even diagnosed me as dyslexic (I'm not), just so he could pretend to have an answer.

When I discovered weed, probably earlier than most, the effect was amazing. It put me in the moment, allowing me to focus on whatever was in front of me, without all of the distracting thoughts. It was also immediately obvious that it affected different people in different ways. Most seemed to experience too much stupefication for higher level thought, while a few of us--probably with similar neural pathways--embraced the "study high, take the test high" philosophy. As my tolerance increased, it only got better. Without the giggles or the munchies, I find cannabis stimulating.

I knew that I seemed to respond differently to this stimulus, but recent awareness about neurodiversity helped me understand what that means. A few years ago my daughter presented similar personality traits and academic problems to mine. Her therapist suggested an ADHD diagnosis, but before they'll make that decision for a minor they want to get parental approval--a fail-safe against the liability of recent over-prescribing of strong stimulants for kids who don't fit the mold. In order to justify our approval, we had to go through hours of interviewing regarding our daughter's tendencies. So many of the questions they asked, which were obviously designed to identify traits characteristic of ADHD, made me think, "Wait, doesn't everyone feel like that?"

I think it's for the best that they missed the diagnosis so many years ago. I do find that stimulants help me focus, but I much prefer the effects of cannabis. Although, maybe if I'd better understood my tendencies I could have avoided the pitfalls of VAS, but then I wouldn't have this bitchin' vape collection.

Anyway, thank you @AJS, for this deeply affirming thread.

 

[JCat]

I can't believe it took me this long to find this thread. Then again, it took me decades to realize I probably have undiagnosed ADHD, so it's par for the course.

It's not that no one tried. A little over 40 years ago my parents sent me to a few therapists to try and determine why my actuality fell so far short of my potential (at least as much as potential can be indicated by standardized testing). I don't think ADHD was as common a diagnosis back then (and it was still called ADD), and I think they tended to look for hperactivity as a primary indicator. But I wasn't bouncing off the walls physically (not more than other teens, anyway); it's in my head where things tend to ricochet. One quack even diagnosed me as dyslexic (I'm not), just so he could pretend to have an answer.

When I discovered weed, probably earlier than most, the effect was amazing. It put me in the moment, allowing me to focus on whatever was in front of me, without all of the distracting thoughts. It was also immediately obvious that it affected different people in different ways. Most seemed to experience too much stupefication for higher level thought, while a few of us--probably with similar neural pathways--embraced the "study high, take the test high" philosophy. As my tolerance increased, it only got better. Without the giggles or the munchies, I find cannabis stimulating.

I knew that I seemed to respond differently to this stimulus, but recent awareness about neurodiversity helped me understand what that means. A few years ago my daughter presented similar personality traits and academic problems to mine. Her therapist suggested an ADHD diagnosis, but before they'll make that decision for a minor they want to get parental approval--a fail-safe against the liability of recent over-prescribing of strong stimulants for kids who don't fit the mold. In order to justify our approval, we had to go through hours of interviewing regarding our daughter's tendencies. So many of the questions they asked, which were obviously designed to identify traits characteristic of ADHD, made me think, "Wait, doesn't everyone feel like that?"

I think it's for the best that they missed the diagnosis so many years ago. I do find that stimulants help me focus, but I much prefer the effects of cannabis. Although, maybe if I'd better understood my tendencies I could have avoided the pitfalls of VAS, but then I wouldn't have this bitchin' vape collection.

Anyway, thank you @AJS, for this deeply affirming thread.

Understand how you feel Diagnosed in my mid 40's with ADHD and Autism after my daughter was diagnosed with autism (my son also has ADHD but not autism ...) ... its weird ... I feel like its what gives me the edge over most people but also what sets me apart and makes me feel isolated and alone ... like most things in life, its a double-edged sword.

 

[AJS]

I feel like its what gives me the edge over most people but also what sets me apart and makes me feel isolated and alone

I think this pretty much nails it.

The isolation started to get a bit better when I engaged a bit more with the community, or at least read their posts and what they deal with.

Then one day I made a post in a group about an isolating feeling I've sort of always felt since I was a little kid, barely even having the words to explain it. Somehow got a load of reactions of people who experience that same thing and never had the words for it.

There are very few feelings, regardless of how complex they seem, that someone experiences alone.
That thought doesn't always do it, as sometimes the feeling is just simply isolation itself, but it still helps me at times.

I find myself saying to my gf when I'm overwhelmed
"Life itself is so simple but for some reason it's so fucking hard"

"Wait, doesn't everyone feel like that?"

This, mixed with every person you try to explain a symptom to saying "well everyone deals with that a little bit",

And in my case being a child and having a doctor ask "When you sit down for a task do you struggle to finish it" and thinking about every video game I finished after playing 12 hours straight never losing focus.

It leads straight to Imposter Syndrome.

It's just a recipe for disaster, as ADHD is quite a paradox in our personality and motivation.
Need structure for direction, but structure is overwhelming.
Need a schedule to complete tasks, but can't stick to it.
Can't focus, until we focus too much.
Don't want to be late, so we're there an hour early (and still somehow late through the actual door).

Children are not set up to properly answer questions related to ADHD as they are far too complex and require too much understanding of what "normal" is.

Then it's equally as difficult as an adult, as it's something you've had for 40+ years, so how are you supposed to know it's different from other people unless you spend time actually dissecting how each of you react to certain events/experiences/emotions.

I was pretty lucky, as in college, I found friends who wanted to do just that. Just diving in to how we are all different and similar.
(shrooms helped).

recent awareness about neurodiversity helped me understand what that means.

This is why I try to explain myself so clearly. I just want people to have an understanding of how I function in a scenario to make it easier for everyone. I think if everyone was more clear and actually said what they were feeling, it would make understanding everyone so much easier, which helps us to understand ourselves.

Instead of something like "I don't like this task", I try to say something like "These sort of tasks are really difficult for me because XYZ, it's just something about how I function. If it's broken down as ABC, it would be a lot easier for me to manage as I see it as smaller chunks instead of a huge project".

The rise of videos, TikToks, facebook posts, etc. about how they function or manage tasks has been so helpful in getting a better understanding for everyone.

__
If I hijacked these comments a bit with too much interjection, sorry about that.

Also, I generalize a lot of symptoms with "we", speaking for the community. Symptoms are not universal, and it's okay if someone doesn't relate to ones I or others describe in their posts. I just don't want to throw anyone off when I generalize

 

[popitup]

I've found some of the most medically beneficial strains to contain high amounts of THCv, CBG, CBDv. Durban Poisin, Jack Herer are two popular classics.

Modern day hemp farmers have been producing THCv, CBG and CBDv dominate strains that are worth looking into.

Historically, before I identified these specific cannabinoids for treatment, I would seek out Diesels and Hazes, though I do usually cut those with CBD to lower the paranoid and raciness. Another outlier I haven't classified using the above criteria, Super Boof provides me laser focus, it's also delicious.

 

[JCat]

I found the same; Durban Poison has always been a favorite and do tend to seek out diesels and hazes as well

 

[Sass Jeeves]

If you're fortunate enough to be somewhere you can see them on packaging, identifying the more dominant terpenes in strains you really like or gravitate toward can really help find other strains to try!

I'm pretty much "this" to this entire thread, and similarly have had a surprising amount of success approximating the effects of stimulant meds with cannabis for many years, especially by vaping.

Durban Poison, Jack Herrer, Orange/White crosses - these are generally very high in Terpinolene and/or Limonene; they will have a kinda bright, citrusy or fruity nose. These are now the first things I look for when loading up on my daywalkin' stash.

For those stressy, racy, bees in brain times, my go-to terps are Linalool and Beta-Myrcene, which will both have a pretty obviously floral smell.

Linalool is actually the dominant terpene in Lavender plants, so if you find lavender comforting or relaxing, see if you can find some flower with lots of it! This same principle applies to other terps - if you know smells/tastes you love, you might be able to trace them to specific terpene profiles, making it easier to find what you like more reliably!

 

[Timps27]

I had noticed Limonene pop up a lot in my favorite strains, makes sense. When I was buying in IL I got a lot of Cresco, I always liked that they put the terpene profiles very noticeably up front on their packaging.

 

[Sass Jeeves]

I had noticed Limonene pop up a lot in my favorite strains, makes sense. When I was buying in IL I got a lot of Cresco, I always liked that they put the terpene profiles very noticeably up front on their packaging.

I stayed there a while back and also found a strain from Cresco that was very high in Limonene!

Can't remember the dispo chain, but the budtender who helped me was amazing and super knowledgeable. What I found really fascinating was that she and I had the exact opposite preferences in terps and strains; it's pretty amazing how much variety and wide-ranging appeal there is in this plant.

 

[Timps27]

If you’re ever in IL again see if you can snag a 1/4 of Orange Afghani by Bedford Grow. The farm and the strain are the measuring stick by which all others are measured for me, to this day.

ETA: and their (Bedford) signature strain, Lou’s Legacy, named for St. Louis where I lived at the time.

 

[Sass Jeeves]

If you’re ever in IL again see if you can snag a 1/4 of Orange Afghani by Bedford Grow. The farm and the strain are the measuring stick by which all others are measured for me, to this day.

ETA: and their (Bedford) signature strain, Lou’s Legacy, named for St. Louis where I lived at the time.

Next time I'm through I will track some down, thanks for the tip!

If you're still around MO, look out for Elevate's White Poison and especially Pinchy's Orange 43 - both hit me just right for a day of chores, or a social event that sounded fun last week and horrifying today

 

[popitup]

Great list of Terpenes there, Sass. I agree with your assessment. I too have found citrusy sativa strains to provide me with nice focus and clarity.

I'd also like to throw Pinene out there as one of my tops, it has been credited with memory improvement, and can be found in strains such as Jack Herer, Trainwreck, Strawberry Cough, Blue Dream, which I have experienced beneficial effects from.

Caryophyllene is another terpene I've found present in a lot of my favorite strains (spicy/peppery/clove).

Too much Myrcene makes me confused and stupid, does anyone else experience this?

 

[Sass Jeeves]

Great list of Terpenes there, Sass. I agree with your assessment. I too have found citrusy sativa strains to provide me with nice focus and clarity.

I'd also like to throw Pinene out there as one of my tops, it has been credited with memory improvement, and can be found in strains such as Jack Herer, Trainwreck, Strawberry Cough, Blue Dream, which I have experienced beneficial effects from.

Caryophyllene is another terpene I've found present in a lot of my favorite strains (spicy/peppery/clove).

Too much Myrcene makes me confused and stupid, does anyone else experience this?

Yes! I love Pinene as well, but have so much trouble finding it in my market for some reason. Great tip on some strains or crosses to check for, thanks!

And definitely relate on the Myrcene. If I go hard on that, like through a WPA or TM2, it's about the closest I can get to a classic "stoned" feeling. It also gives me the most physical relief/relaxation I think, though I'm not always very conscious of that either way.

 

[AJS]

I'm pretty much "this" to this entire thread

I've found some of the most medically beneficial strains to contain high amounts of THCv, CBG, CBDv. Durban Poisin, Jack Herer are two popular classics.

Modern day hemp farmers have been producing THCv, CBG and CBDv dominate strains that are worth looking into.

Historically, before I identified these specific cannabinoids for treatment, I would seek out Diesels and Hazes, though I do usually cut those with CBD to lower the paranoid and raciness. Another outlier I haven't classified using the above criteria, Super Boof provides me laser focus, it's also delicious.

Durban Poison, Jack Herrer, Orange/White crosses - these are generally very high in Terpinolene and/or Limonene; they will have a kinda bright, citrusy or fruity nose. These are now the first things I look for when loading up on my daywalkin' stash.

For those stressy, racy, bees in brain times, my go-to terps are Linalool and Beta-Myrcene, which will both have a pretty obviously floral smell.

I too have found citrusy sativa strains to provide me with nice focus and clarity.

Pinene out there as one of my tops, it has been credited with memory improvement, and can be found in strains such as Jack Herer, Trainwreck, Strawberry Cough, Blue Dream, which I have experienced beneficial effects from.

Caryophyllene is another terpene I've found present in a lot of my favorite strains (spicy/peppery/clove).

Beautiful examples, thank you! I'll keep a look out. I do like me some Caryophyllene. Black Pepper is one of my favorite spices, and I order the best I can find from India

I have noticed a particular strain makes me very very focused when I play video games (as that's typically when I vape), which was Acapulco gold.
I always compared that strain to Jack Herer, which I've seen you guys mention a few times now. It has that signature Limey/Citrus/Sativa smell.

Crazy that one of the main strains I noticed helping me probably has a very similar terpene profile to the ones others have mentioned as well.

Makes me remember that I tried to talk to a teacher about isolating cannabinoids to help with depression/ADHD, and essentially got a laugh in front of the class from the professor.
Two years later, CBD was legalized.

And now here we are...doing what the scientist and doctors won't do, figuring it out ourselves.

Especially on something as seemingly arbitrary as cannabis terpenes/strains, we somehow are finding patterns and narrowing down what helps.

Oddly for me, I don't usually pick strains based on effects. I love seeking out new flavor profiles and trying to identify them. I do need to make some more meaningful strain purchases for my brain though and not my tongue.

Too much Myrcene makes me confused and stupid, does anyone else experience this?

I'm not sure if it's this terpene specifically for me as I haven't paid attention, but I know the feeling. Some strains definitely get my brain just moving slowly. Not always a bad thing, time and a place, but not ideal if you aren't looking for it.

Think my next purchase will be specifically finding strains high in a few isolated terps to see if I can spot some differences outside of flavor.
Limonene
Terpinolene
Caryophyllene

Thanks all!

 

[popitup]

And definitely relate on the Myrcene. If I go hard on that, like through a WPA or TM2, it's about the closest I can get to a classic "stoned" feeling. It also gives me the most physical relief/relaxation I think, though I'm not always very conscious of that either way.

100% agree with the stoned feeling, and it can be enjoyable at night.

And now here we are...doing what the scientist and doctors won't do, figuring it out ourselves.

Especially on something as seemingly arbitrary as cannabis terpenes/strains, we somehow are finding patterns and narrowing down what helps.

This resonates heavily, in my teens, I discovered weed could help me obtain clarity/motivation/focus like I never had before in my life.

The issue I had in the 2000s with street weed, is that I couldn't be selective. You got what you got, sometimes the weed helped, sometimes it made me confused, tired, or talkative. I was able to figure out Sativas usually led me to the place I wanted, specifically diesels helped me get closer to the medicated effect I was desiring.

Flash forward two decades where weed is now legal and I have access to more strains that I ever could have imagined. I have been methodically tracking my strains in a spreadsheet for years with columns to classify and categorize effects, smells, flavors, terpenes, cannabinoids, notes, links, etc.

Every time I cop a new strain, I use the package, additional information from the vendor's website, and leafly to populate the columns. Then I create a pivot table to make it searchable, and generate charts to help me get an overview of my collection and identify patterns.

https://imgur.com/1jwb1z7

Side note: If you have ADHD, and you are not using calendars, checklists, and alarms daily; strongly consider starting. These have helped me offload some of the noise into "cold storage" until needed, and helps keep stress/anxiety down because I can safely forget. Plus, for me it has become a source of dopamine. Plan the work, work the plan, earn the reward, make it a habit.

Think my next purchase will be specifically finding strains high in a few isolated terps to see if I can spot some differences outside of flavor.
Limonene
Terpinolene
Caryophyllene

Awesome, man! Let us know how it goes!

Oddly for me, I don't usually pick strains based on effects. I love seeking out new flavor profiles and trying to identify them. I do need to make some more meaningful strain purchases for my brain though and not my tongue.

Hey man, it's cool to choose for all sorts of reasons. I don't exclusively buy weed as medication, I like a whole range of flowers, it's such an interesting plant. I love me a good blueberry (Could be high in Caryophyllene and Mycrene!)

 

[Sass Jeeves]

I was trying to follow the quote/reply pattern but there were too many things I identified with in the last few messages lol

Had the same issues until legalization, and also now gathering my own data for some analytics later haha. We should join forces and make a dashboard or something, what a fun tool that could be to play with!

I started with finding strains that smelled good to me too, then started noticing terpenes and delved into that a bit, as I was overwhelmed/frustrated with arbitrary strain naming conventions and lack of product descriptions everywhere.

Over a few months and trying lots of things, began noticing correlations between terpenes/smell/taste and the effects I experienced.

Maybe it could be partly explained by our bodies craving or preferring specific chemical profiles and shunning others like poisonous plants or spoiled food. I actually really dislike the nose and effects of a Caryophyllene-heavy strain, but I believe that's one of the main terps present in everything.

 

[popitup]

We should join forces and make a dashboard or something, what a fun tool that could be to play with!

That's a really interesting idea. I'm not sure where to start, but I'm interested.

---

I'm not a doctor or a scientist, just a dude that hyperfocuses on things sometimes, so I apologize if anything I say next is inaccurate. I've provided citations and simplified the explanation to my understanding of the topics, which is limited. Someone smarter than me please expand and/or correct.

People with ADHD have an imbalance in their endocannabinoid system. Typically, people have a lot of anandamide in the brain, but people with ADHD have too little anandamide in their brain, and an excess in their blood. [2][3]

Anandamide acts upon the CB1 receptors which influence pain, appetite regulation, pleasure and reward. Guess what else acts upon CB1 receptors? That's right, Δ9-tetrahydrocannabinol.

It's no wonder self-medicating individuals find comfort in a substance that fills a space their natural biology isn't giving them.

[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6460372/
[2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8489316/
[3] https://scivisionpub.com/pdfs/targeting-the-endocannabinoid-system-in-the-treatment-of-adhd-1604.pdf

---

Not to bring down the mood too much... but I do want to address the fact that cannabis, like any other substance can be abused.

People with ADHD are high risk for multiple addictive, impulsive, and compulsive behaviors. Their brains are seeking dopamine. [4]

25% of people currently in treatment for alcohol have ADHD [5].

[4] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2626918/
[5] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6683828/

---

Cannabis isn't a holy grail, but I imagine many of us have found ourselves here because we have tried alternatives, and responsible cannabis use has led us to live a healthier life. Pharmacuticals work for some, our body chemistry and genetics differ, and we all need to find what works for us. I personally hated the side effects.

CBT and coping skills are also great tools to have in your kit, and I'm going to reiterate my suggestion of organizational tools. ADHD is a super power if you learn to harness it.

Please remember to keep yourself in check, question your usage, take breaks, cycle in CBD and non-drug activities that release dopamine. Read up about your condition, learn to leverage it, it's not something you'll outgrow.

Be well.

 

[Sass Jeeves]

That's a really interesting idea. I'm not sure where to start, but I'm interested.

Probably apparent that I, too, am just some dude who joyfully hyperfocuses or fixates on things, for better or worse! If I can manage to turn it on this at some point, I already know all the fancy data and computer things we'd need to do (of course, in this thread of all threads I probably don't need to say, "we'll see.....")
---

But really wanted to wholeheartedly agree with and echo your advice regarding caution and self-awareness of taking a good thing too far. Even if it's just recognizing when it's happening and trying to think about why.

And the value of behavioral therapy and coping strategies cannot be overstated in my opinion. Personally, my reliance on medication to "be the best I can be" makes me frustrated and uncomfortable, and my only goal is to reduce or eliminate it altogether.

 

[Dustin McKief]

You say 'fixate', I say 'find the flow'. ;^)

But it's interesting when the correct dose delivers my brain into that zone where I can be effective while still able to multitask with good short term memory.

 

[AJS]

(of course, in this thread of all threads I probably don't need to say, "we'll see.....")

This is the kind of comment I find the most comfort in; a mutual understanding with no expectation or pressure of follow through.

A breath of fresh air.

From my original post:

(We'll see if I get around to it).

There’s a lot more for me to mention from above. You’re all just fantastic

 

[Curious Gorilla]

I feel like its what gives me the edge over most people but also what sets me apart and makes me feel isolated and alone

We Are Not Alone.

I have seen it written that if You put a group of Autistic, ADHD and other neuro-diverse people together and they could find the Solutions to World Problems.
Wether or not the rest of the world would accept them is a different matter.

 

[RogueGuy]

Great thread. I was a Ritalin kid in the 70s and was formally diagnosed. I was always in trouble.

I had never thought a lot about self medicating with cannabis for ADHD, but have been chatting with my neighbor about it lately and see a lot of parallels between he and I.

I have been a daily user since 16. I definitely self medicate for depression. My friend once described cannabis as "The cure for lonliness". What he meant was that when you are alone and maybe bored, as many neurodivergent people may find themselves, Cannabis makes doing stuff alone much more interesting. For me, it also helps lessen the existential lonliness that comes with always feeling different and feeling "on the outside looking in" at all these normal people.

I, like many, find Cannabis very energizing. My 80 year old mom will take a puff and then go crazy cleaning the house. Many people with ADHD that I have talked to have a similar experience.

I think the biggest logistical problem that my ADHD creates for me is disorganization. I'm messy and unorganized, I don't write anything down, i cant remember peoples names or important dates.

But, in a way, I see my ADHD as a gift. I have used my ability to hyperfocus to accomplish some amazing things in cycling, skiing and ski mountaineering (the runners high didn't hurt). And I owe my business success and my place in this community to hyperfocus. The key for me has been trying to focus on something positive.

I honestly don't know how this would have been if I wasn't using Cannabis. Would I have been as motivated? More?

 

[WisePenny]

Just catching up on this thread, not much to add at the moment other than to say that I've enjoyed all the comments and insights.
There is definitely comfort in shared experience.

Regarding addiction - yes we have addictive personalities and this is always a risk. Historical studies show a higher incidence of cannabis use in those with ADHD, but view it from an abuse/addiction perspective, rather than from an effective self-medicating perspective.

However, I've been told for years now that stimulants are highly addictive and can cause lots of mental issues when used/abused by neurotypical brains. But we've been told they are safe for our ADHD brains, and will not cause the same issues because our brains are build differently.
If so, then it would also seem possible that the same may be true for cannabis. At least, it seems that our brains react differently than the neurotypical population. It's something that I've often wondered about.

 

[AJS]

If so, then it would also seem possible that the same may be true for cannabis. At least, it seems that our brains react differently than the neurotypical population. It's something that I've often wondered about.

For the most part, it's because stimulants release dopamine, and excess dopamine isn't too great in neurotypicals, but it brings us to a level our brain is constantly craving. Most of our behaviors we try to prevent, we do to get our dopamine levels up.

So THC is just the same thing, trying to bring us to a level of dopamine that our brain finds comfort in.

Doesn't necessarily mean it'll be a benefit, just that our brain likes it.

I typically try to feed my brain whatever I can though so it's nice to me

Edit:

I typically try to feed my brain whatever I can though so it's nice to me

(*Possible Trigger Warning for dissociation*)

That reminds me ... does anyone else feel a massive disconnect between "themselves" and their "brain"?

I think we feel that separation significantly more than neurotypicals, which I think is why we're so good at self evaluating, and having such a strong understanding of others and an extra level of consideration, as we know it's not always an "us", but sometimes just a reaction happening.

It's hard for me to not look for a "why" in people's behaviors.

 

[JCat]

Oooooooooooooooo that be nice rule is the only thing holding me back.

Great job yanking at someone in a mental health thread.

Thanks @AJS , I appreciate the support. Haven't had much time to be on any social media for the last couple months.

And just to make sure things are clear, I was only a few days late sending that SV3 out, because go figure, life can get in the way sometimes and Canada Post is only open 9-5 weekdays! And to be clear, I didn't ghost or ignore anyone, but I don't live on social media and don't get active notifications from Discord, so just wasn't aware I had been messaged.

 

[Sour Dream]

Forgot to join this thread awhile back but I was formally diagnosed back in may at the age of 30 and Vyvanse has been a game changer. Since ADHDers tend to fall victim to addiction I’ve notice this medication has helped me be able to chill out and resist getting high as much. I find that getting high actually makes my symptoms worse and kinda neutralizes the meds affects to a degree