18650 Battery Safety

[cybrguy]

Literally more than twice as expensive as the 28As on sale on the same site. They really would have to be awfully good to be worth that price difference. Or last a lot longer before they start to lose power. May have to buy a pair to check them out, but I can't imagine they are worth the difference to me.

 

[RustyOldNail]

Just ordered 10 of the P30B's from 18650batteryStore.com!

Peese!

Nice, these should be the new KINGS of 18650 batteries.

 

[axilla101]

Nice, these should be the new KINGS of 18650 batteries.

Is there any info (anecdotal or otherwise) on how much better these are than the P28A?

 

[RustyOldNail]

Is there any info (anecdotal or otherwise) on how much better these are than the P28A?

I believe they decreased internal resistance, and increased the mAh’s.
SEARCH for “Mooch” battery reviews, he tested these I believe already.
Every NEW battery release comes at a HIGHER price when first released!
Certainly not worth 2x as much as previous version, but if you want and can afford the best……

 

[cybrguy]

Actually, that sale price for the 28As is tempting me...

 

[cybrguy]

I actually did end up getting a couple 28As. I'll get a few P30s when the price comes down when they become more available.

 

[letter never sent]

I have some Molicel 26As I bought 3 years ago, used a little bit with my Tetra P80, and then just been sitting in a case for the past couple years. I’m holding onto them because I’m expecting a Nomad II to arrive at some point. Are these still good to use or do the batteries “go bad” just sitting around for an extended period?

 

[RustyOldNail]

I have some Molicel 26As I bought 3 years ago, used a little bit with my Tetra P80, and then just been sitting in a case for the past couple years. I’m holding onto them because I’m expecting a Nomad II to arrive at some point. Are these still good to use or do the batteries “go bad” just sitting around for an extended period?

Lithium batteries have a supposed shelf life of approximately 10 years.
Best long term storage is to charge them to about 3.8 volts, and store in refrigerator.
The only real test is using test devices that can measure AC and or DC resistance, something most don’t have.
With that said, I’d just fully charge them, and you should get plenty of use from them, as you wisely bought top shelf batteries….

 

[kiddvudu2]

Lithium batteries have a supposed shelf life of approximately 10 years.
Best long term storage is to charge them to about 3.8 volts, and store in refrigerator.
The only real test is using test devices that can measure AC and or DC resistance, something most don’t have.
With that said, I’d just fully charge them, and you should get plenty of use from them, as you wisely bought top shelf batteries….

No expert here, but won't a $30 smart charger with capacity testing give some insight here?

Wondering this myself now.

 

[RustyOldNail]

No expert here, but won't a $30 smart charger with capacity testing give some insight here?

Wondering this myself now.

Some advanced chargers can give you a DC IR number, but even my expensive charger is not very accurate in regards to consistent IR results, mostly because of the battery slots connections, sliding rails etc.
I’ve played with this far too many times, reseating the batteries in the slots, etc.
You then must mark the batteries and keep notes on dates, DC IR readings, so you can compare.
I have a decent AC IR Meter, the benefits of that, are most battery companies use AC IR numbers in their battery specification data sheets, and your DC IR readings are NOT convertible to AC readings.
I had fun learning and exploring, but in the end, it can become a time wasting hobby.
As even the best Molicel batteries are very affordable, I just FULLY charge them, and replace when they don’t heat up as many loads or get really old, some end up in flashlights etc.

 

[cybrguy]

Best long term storage is to charge them to about 3.8 volts, and store in refrigerator.

Nearly every article about battery storage I've read has said that the idea of refrigerating your batteries to extend their life is a myth. YMMV

 

[RustyOldNail]

Nearly every article about battery storage I've read has said that the idea of refrigerating your batteries to extend their life is a myth. YMMV

Post the links….

 

[cybrguy]

Google "should batteries be stored in the refrigerator" and follow the links yourself. Any of them.

Part of what they suggest is that the risk of moisture getting into the battery is greater than any benefit you might get from the lower temperatures.

 

[RustyOldNail]

Google "should batteries be stored in the refrigerator" and follow the links yourself. Any of them.

Part of what they suggest is that the risk of moisture getting into the battery is greater than any benefit you might get from the lower temperatures.

That’s why you store them in a sealed container.

Here is some reading you can do, and I’ll supply the LINKS!

BU-702: How to Store Batteries

BU meta description needed...

batteryuniversity.com

BU-808: How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries

BU meta description needed...

batteryuniversity.com

 

[cybrguy]

Thanks for the links. Neither of them say to store your batteries in the fridge. They do recommend a cool dry place, but I don't think that's the refrigerator.

But like I say, YMMV.

 

[RustyOldNail]

Thanks for the links. Neither of them say to store your batteries in the fridge. They do recommend a cool dry place, but I don't think that's the refrigerator.

But like I say, YMMV.

Guess you missed the “chart”: Table 2 illustrates the remaining capacities of lithium- and nickel-based batteries after one year of storage at various temperatures.

The “crisper” section in the bottom of my refrigerator is the definition of a “cool and dry” place, along with the temperature being consistent.

As far as “my mileage”, I’ve stored extra new lithium batteries as per the science for over 5 years, and after reaching room temperature, I tested both AC and DC resistance, and they were like new.

Do as you please, I’ll stick with the known science…..

 

[Maschine]

I ordered six new Molicel P28A from nkon.nl. Parcel cam yesterday and on the batteries is written "Not For E-CIG OR VAPE".
The old ones don't have that and I thought Molicel is the only company that produces batteries that are official safe for vaping?

 

[Pukka]

and on the batteries is written "Not For E-CIG OR VAPE".

Have you ever noticed that every single bank cash machines, even the one's in the drive-thru, have braile dots on the keys. Have you ever met a blind person who drives? Me either.

It's a "Cover Your Ass" move by Molicel's legal team to limit exposure if you do something stupid like short the cell and it explodes, damaging you in some way. It's also slightly cheaper to only make 1 style of battery wrap instead of part with and part without logo.

 

[RustyOldNail]

I ordered six new Molicel P28A from nkon.nl. Parcel cam yesterday and on the batteries is written "Not For E-CIG OR VAPE".
The old ones don't have that and I thought Molicel is the only company that produces batteries that are official safe for vaping?

Post a photo. It’s either a rewrap, or they changed their policy. I’ve only purchased them from the known, reliable sites based in the U.S., not aware of “Nikon.nl”.

 

[Maschine]

It's a "Cover Your Ass" move by Molicel's legal team to limit exposure if you do something stupid like short the cell and it explodes, damaging you in some way. It's also slightly cheaper to only make 1 style of battery wrap instead of part with and part without logo

Thank you but sorry to say your answer makes no sense to me. Why should they warp all molicel batteries with the same warp? There are plenty of models like P26, P28 and so on and they show different warps on the homepage? Further if you are right, do you know this for sure and can provide a proof or is this just your assumption?

Post a photo. It’s either a rewrap, or they changed their policy. I’ve only purchased them from the known, reliable sites based in the U.S., not aware of “Nikon.nl”.

Thank you Rusty here's the photo. Ordering in the U.S would be a hassle for me but if they turn out to be fakes I'd be happy if someone can shoot me a link to a reliable EU reseller.

 

[KeroZen]

Nkon.nl in Netherlands is genuine. So is https://www.akkuteile.de/ in Germany.

All other brands went the same way (but obviously earlier since Molicel is late to the game) to cover their asses indeed. End users are never supposed to ever touch unprotected cells. They are meant to be assembled in packs and protected by a BMS. At the very least they should be button top with a small protection circuit under the button.

This cell format has always been a disaster in the waiting as the two terminals are only insulated by a thin ring on the top and spaced apart by only a mm or two. Plus the wraps are fragile. Refer to the Firewood incident (forgot which actual version) where all devices had to be recalled for a practical example: the battery sled construction made the contact grind the cell and it eroded the wrap, creating a potential short condition on insertion.

Since then Firewood has been encasing their cells in a proper package and integrated a BMS inside.

 

[kiddvudu2]

The P30B's I bought from 18650batterystore.com in February also have "NOT FOR E-CIG OR VAPE" written above the model number and manufacturer info. However, my P28A's (also from 18650bs.com) do not have the disclaimer, but those were purchased a couple years ago.

Peese

 

[cybrguy]

How are you liking those P30Bs? Are they a noticeable bump on the P28As or even the P26As? Do they last any longer in your Vape?

 

[Octavia]

Refer to the Firewood incident (forgot which actual version) where all devices had to be recalled for a practical example: the battery sled construction made the contact grind the cell and it eroded the wrap, creating a potential short condition on insertion.

Since then Firewood has been encasing their cells in a proper package and integrated a BMS inside.

Do you know roughly when that happened? I remember seeing some issues with the 7 where the spring on the new devices was stiff enough to tear the wrapper if you weren’t careful for the first dozen or so battery swaps but I don’t remember seeing a recall. I got mine in early 2021 though so the issue could’ve been an earlier model/resolved before I got mine.

The firewood 8 (the one with the battery packs) was discontinued pretty quickly, but he also built a charger into the 9’s much looser battery chamber so folks won’t need to swap much if they don’t want to.

 

[kiddvudu2]

How are you liking those P30Bs? Are they a noticeable bump on the P28As or even the P26As? Do they last any longer in your Vape?

I cannot notice a difference in life or performance.