18650 Battery Safety

[Shit Snacks]

Since then Firewood has been encasing their cells in a proper package and integrated a BMS inside.

Yeah FW9 does not do that anymore, replaceable 18650 came back after FW8

Do you know roughly when that happened? I remember seeing some issues with the 7 where the spring on the new devices was stiff enough to tear the wrapper if you weren’t careful for the first dozen or so battery swaps but I don’t remember seeing a recall. I got mine in early 2021 though so the issue could’ve been an earlier model/resolved before I got mine.

Yes there was not a recall on FW7 at least I don't think so, but the actual recall I believe was with the FW4 I think it was? Some kind of connection thing with the batteries was causing actual damage problem, not just scraping wrappers (that was just a rolling upgrade improvement for later batches of FW7 and anyone who had the issue was able to send theirs back or fix it themselves)

 

[RustyOldNail]

Thank you Rusty here's the photo. Ordering in the U.S would be a hassle for me but if they turn out to be fakes I'd be happy if someone can shoot me a link to a reliable EU reseller.

Well, the print on the battery looks familiar. Only real way to tell, is to strip the wrapper, and hopefully the casing has the information inscribed on it like most. I’m NOT suggesting you bother, as another member said, you bought it from a legit source. Many 18650’s I’ve bought in the past, had those warning added to the battery via a sticker. Now it’s laser printed.

 

[badbee]

I ordered six new Molicel P28A from nkon.nl. Parcel cam yesterday and on the batteries is written "Not For E-CIG OR VAPE".
The old ones don't have that and I thought Molicel is the only company that produces batteries that are official safe for vaping?

This style of battery cell was never intended for direct to consumer sales, they were designed for commercial\industrial use where they would be packaged into battery packs. Almost all hand tool, scooter and cycle batteries are made with 18650s. Mid level wholesalers started selling them direct to consumer for eCigs, RC and hobby purposes because they are a great multipurpose cell. When all the bad press about eCig batteries hit the market they added this on the wraps to help distance themselves from the problem.

I frequent electronics hobby forums and new people are constantly trying to put these cells in their projects without a BMS or charging circuit, it's dangerous. These cells have no built in protections of any kind. If you short them they will dump their entire energy store very very quickly and can generate thousands of degrees of heat. It's an ongoing problem that makes the manufacturers nervous about liability.

Edit: To give context you can short circuit a regular NiCad battery and their internal resistance is high enough that they won't produce a dangerous current. It's basically impossible to hurt yourself with them. Li Ion is a whole different story. An 18650 is like having a chunk of Thermite in your pocket, it needs to be respected.

 

[Gorf]

I have a cheap, effective way of storing and transporting 18650s. I have an assortment of heat shrink tubing for electrical connections. Some of it is just a bit bigger in diameter than a battery. If you cut a length of it twice that of the battery, you can place the battery in the middle and fold the ends over to close. Nice and safe, very low profile.

 

[RustyOldNail]

I have a cheap, effective way of storing and transporting 18650s. I have an assortment of heat shrink tubing for electrical connections. Some of it is just a bit bigger in diameter than a battery. If you cut a length of it twice that of the battery, you can place the battery in the middle and fold the ends over to close. Nice and safe, very low profile.

That will work, personally I prefer this inexpensive option:

Silicone Battery Sleeve - 18650

Safely store your batteries by covering the positive and negative terminals.

www.myvaporstore.com

 

[kiddvudu2]

That will work, personally I prefer this inexpensive option:

Silicone Battery Sleeve - 18650

Safely store your batteries by covering the positive and negative terminals.

www.myvaporstore.com

I use very similar ones @RustyOldNail, I love them. That is for on the go action tho. I store most of my batteries in a nice 25-spot plastic hard case with a hinged lid and latch. It lives near (but, not too close) to my external charger.

 

[RustyOldNail]

I use very similar ones @RustyOldNail, I love them. That is for on the go action tho. I store most of my batteries in a nice 25-spot plastic hard case with a hinged lid and latch. It lives near (but, not too close) to my external charger.

Same here, I use the multiple battery plastic containers, most have come FREE with my battery orders.
I keep my many lithium batteries in a case (see below), in my fireplace with the flu open, an a tiny smoke detector on top.

Amazon.com

 

[kiddvudu2]

Same here, I use the multiple battery plastic containers, most have come FREE with my battery orders.
I keep my many lithium batteries in a case (see below), in my fireplace with the flu open, an a tiny smoke detector on top.

Amazon.com

BRILLIANT!!!

 

[Timps27]

Thank you but sorry to say your answer makes no sense to me. Why should they warp all molicel batteries with the same warp? There are plenty of models like P26, P28 and so on and they show different warps on the homepage? Further if you are right, do you know this for sure and can provide a proof or is this just your assumption?



Thank you Rusty here's the photo. Ordering in the U.S would be a hassle for me but if they turn out to be fakes I'd be happy if someone can shoot me a link to a reliable EU reseller.

The 26A that came with my TM2 did not have the *not for vape* marking; but the 28A’s I just got do have the marking. In the near term it’s actually a nice way to know the cells you got are fresh units!

 

[SwanTonSoup]

This style of battery cell was never intended for direct to consumer sales, they were designed for commercial\industrial use where they would be packaged into battery packs. Almost all hand tool, scooter and cycle batteries are made with 18650s. Mid level wholesalers started selling them direct to consumer for eCigs, RC and hobby purposes because they are a great multipurpose cell. When all the bad press about eCig batteries hit the market they added this on the wraps to help distance themselves from the problem.

I frequent electronics hobby forums and new people are constantly trying to put these cells in their projects without a BMS or charging circuit, it's dangerous. These cells have no built in protections of any kind. If you short them they will dump their entire energy store very very quickly and can generate thousands of degrees of heat. It's an ongoing problem that makes the manufacturers nervous about liability.

Edit: To give context you can short circuit a regular NiCad battery and their internal resistance is high enough that they won't produce a dangerous current. It's basically impossible to hurt yourself with them. Li Ion is a whole different story. An 18650 is like having a chunk of Thermite in your pocket, it needs to be respected.

Is there a good reference you would suggest to review the best safety/handling instructions? I have a TM2 on the way and would like to know I am handling the battery with care, and being as safe as possible during normal use and storage.

 

[RustyOldNail]

Is there a good reference you would suggest to review the best safety/handling instructions? I have a TM2 on the way and would like to know I am handling the battery with care, and being as safe as possible during normal use and storage.

One can learn anything about batteries at:

Battery University Homepage

Battery University™ is a free educational website offering hands-on battery information.

batteryuniversity.com

Look at lithium battery section.
In short, high quality batteries like Molicel, but only from trusted online sources, both of these topics are well covered in their respective threads. As well as a quality external charger.
Keeping batteries safe, means using a case, individual silicone battery holders, etc. I keep my battery stash in a “BatSafe” box in my unused fireplace, just in case.

 

[badbee]

Is there a good reference you would suggest to review the best safety/handling instructions? I have a TM2 on the way and would like to know I am handling the battery with care, and being as safe as possible during normal use and storage.

I don't but RustyOldNail pointed you to one of the more reliable sources on the internet for battery information. The main thing is never carry them or store them loose, they should always be in a proper case. Handle them like a small bomb, keep them away from heat sources, chemicals and all forms of mechanical damage. If the wrapper gets damaged it should be replaced, but that's not something I've ever had to do.

 

[Pukka]

I don't but RustyOldNail pointed you to one of the more reliable sources on the internet for battery information. The main thing is never carry them or store them loose, they should always be in a proper case. Handle them like a small bomb, keep them away from heat sources, chemicals and all forms of mechanical damage. If the wrapper gets damaged it should be replaced, but that's not something I've ever had to do.

And please dispose of your old, retired ones properly.

 

[SwanTonSoup]

I don't but RustyOldNail pointed you to one of the more reliable sources on the internet for battery information. The main thing is never carry them or store them loose, they should always be in a proper case. Handle them like a small bomb, keep them away from heat sources, chemicals and all forms of mechanical damage. If the wrapper gets damaged it should be replaced, but that's not something I've ever had to do.

Thank you all for the info, and please excuse all the mundane questions, I have kids and want to make sure I am being safe.

As of now I will just have the one battery that comes with the TM2. Regarding storage: should I just keep the battery in the device? I will have it in controlled conditions in my home, and probably use the device a couple times a week. Or would it be recommended to keep the battery stored separately outside the device, in a safe case when not in use? Also, what is the safest way to charge these batteries? Is the charger that comes with the device sufficient?

 

[RustyOldNail]

Thank you all for the info, and please excuse all the mundane questions, I have kids and want to make sure I am being safe.

As of now I will just have the one battery that comes with the TM2. Regarding storage: should I just keep the battery in the device? I will have it in controlled conditions in my home, and probably use the device a couple times a week. Or would it be recommended to keep the battery stored separately outside the device, in a safe case when not in use? Also, what is the safest way to charge these batteries? Is the charger that comes with the device sufficient?

There is a thread asking about “chargers”, I posted my recommendation at link:

Any recommendations for a good 4 slot 18650 battery charger?

I have a TM2 incoming and as it's my first battery powered vape I need to pick up a decent charger as well - are there any FC favorites? I tried searching but couldn't really find anything - thanks in advance!

fuckcombustion.com

There are probably new models out now I’m unaware of?
But the thread I linked to, might be worth scrolling through to gain knowledge.

You can leave the battery in the TM, just remember, unlike many devices, there is NO auto shutdown on any TM model, unfortunately! But there is very little current draw, if you forget to manually turn it off. Not taking the battery out more then you need to, can also put less stress on the TM’s internal battery contacts, etc.
It’s obviously best to have more then one battery, especially if you are using an external charger.

While you can charge the TM’s directly via USB-C, I’ve found that with a 2.0 amp USB wall charger, the TM uses a pretty FAST charge. Measured with a USB current meter, the charge rate is over 2 amps. That’s not an issue for a quality 18650 battery, like a Molicel, the body of the TM gets a little to warm/hot for me. I’ve charged it that way a few times for testing, and if out of the home, it’s an option. But batteries don’t like HEAT, the battery in the TM body has little ventilation, this is one of the reasons an external charger is safer. The batteries in a charger are exposed to airflow, and stay cooler. Also external chargers are built specifically for the task, meaning the internal electronics. Good chargers also offer more user control and settings.

While I’m sure many are totally happy charging their batteries inside their devices, you seem interested in doing things as SAFE as possible….. like me…..

 

[SwanTonSoup]

@RustyOldNail I just wanted to circle back and say thank you for the XTAR VC4SL recommendation. I got the charger in the other day, and it does not disappoint!

 

[Bazinga]

I have about 20 batteries (have a shit ton of vaporizers). They reside standing up side by side on my kitchen counter. I suppose this is considered unsafe? Best way to store them safely?

 

[RustyOldNail]

Best way to store them safely?

Different sizes available…..

https://www.amazon.com/BAT-SAFE-Mini-LiPo-Battery-Charging/dp/B083KPLYMW/ref=sr_1_4?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.iv4s4myL59UOdgxKLfZC7BYs1kLrS6WV9iIXYS1WLKI5MB_5IiM2mND517Rpa5k2P5QBaMBhfqmNdVjACdkNpr0banm_EIh3UEENuuPok9NXrGvf0643Y_CcwVaMkdCkNntjYLL3CN7patFw1byJhw1XnS-XoMbE0ZorBFV9sndIj6wZhF2GeZefTmQfrMDR9pnAHKlgQBD4siajtVSmvjT4xJsa0UpyXT4dJGeFU-bMYrNuR9iXWclRnJ3i0s1gsmS6JgbV4K-NgC8NdCPWht-nCQ-R6Ti7YHshSiQ-dUkhTQL7l9lW0fasEBqchZO9LqkSFrD-fAtRGwaaoDfBPSSzJgLHOAUUS2Ky14HKUbLYtMYZ4D_eeD66o6a1SRjtu0alu3uXiw3QbMdw-9bER-eTXkV_jpTsvvgYDtC1WaDWxgdH9iiLGVI-AiqCPK_9.5a321PQ4HDiJQJ_S7LPZJQsOzrXbv4QqS9VaIjKYCKI&dib_tag=se&keywords=Bat-safe&qid=1733950674&sr=8-4

 

[Bazinga]

Interesting. Does anyone here beside RustyOldNail use this box?

 

[kiddvudu2]

I use a similar one, but not the same. If I can find the link I'll edit this post.

Peese!

Edit: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BDRKB331/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_image?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[666Honeybadger]

Interesting. Does anyone here beside RustyOldNail use this box?

https://www.18650batterystore.com/products/18650-battery-case-4x-18650

I use these for storage at home...
Compared to the other boxes shared this is a cheap ass solution i have to admit but it's enough for me (at least that's what i think? ).
Have a couple of those silicone wraps for single batteries on the go.

 

[cybrguy]

These guys are talking about a different level of battery storage where, if something goes awry, there is still no chance of fire. The plastic boxes that you use, and frankly most people use (myself included) are not that level of safety. If a battery event should occur, these boxes would just melt and possibly catch fire. The only way in which they provide safety is by keeping the positive and negative surfaces from meeting and shorting, which is a common way to create a battery event...

 

[666Honeybadger]

These guys are talking about a different level of battery storage where, if something goes awry, there is still no chance of fire. The plastic boxes that you use, and frankly most people use (myself included) are not that level of safety. If a battery event should occur, these boxes would just melt and possibly catch fire. The only way in which they provide safety is by keeping the positive and negative surfaces from meeting and shorting.

Yes, i realise it's a different level of safety but like you say: they keep 'em separated and i have red and green boxes to indicate full and empty...
I store them in a box (or a vape) at all time and for me that feels like it's "enough".
But yeah, i'm pretty sure these will melt in like a split second in case of an "event"...

Not the safest way but i do know it's better than standing them side by side on a kitchen counter..

 

[cybrguy]

I store them in a box (or a vape) at all time and for me that feels like it's "enough".

And I do the same. I could be more careful than I am, but I feel reasonably safe as long as I show them respect. That being said, more than once I've seen somebody pull in 18650 out of their pocket with no plastic protection. I would bet that a lot of people who handle 18650s do not know their potential, and I feel obliged to lay it out to anyone I talk into a battery vape who is new to them.

Added: I used to have a short clip in my spoiler of Fire Marshal Mike (RBT) shorting an 18650 with a screwdriver just to show their potential. The clip got moved, so my link died and I removed it. It had the caption. " Don't blow off your face."

 

[666Honeybadger]

somebody pull in 18650 out of their pocket with no plastic protection.

Add two cents and you got a real pocket rocket! LoL