Camouflet Ceramo XL

[Durbandream]

I’m kinda new to this space… do any of these cottage brands / manufactures disclose any safety information? Where the materials were made, what kinda testing they performed, etc? Part of the reason I’ve been a fan of Storz and Bickle is the medical certs and the fact that units are made in the healthcare manufacturing area of Germany. I know a lot of it is marketing BS, but still…

Not really but the community is pretty good at finding problems and holding companies accountable like Flower Mill with their metal dusting issue and YLLVape who was recently found putting loose fiberglass in their vapes. Production problems and decisions that can impact health happen all the time so you just have to stay vigilant and keep an eye on the forums for any news.

 

[n0tu2]

Did one last test.. inserted just the cap teeth first from the wand bottom.. noise came as soon as it engaged. So it's the outer stainless. Still not 100% sure if the sound is coming from the wand coil or the cap itself. I tried to listen closely but just can't tell. Either way it's a first Let's see what they do about it.

Does it whine with the inductor (I don't have one)? Does it fit in any other induction heater to test?

edit: reminds me of capacitor whine on a motherboard.. just wanted to rule out the wand board just not being happy with the material - maybe it's thinner then the og? the super capacitor is fine, no whine.

 

[someTooL]

Mine came today. The pre ordered Super Capacitor was missing.

 

[budski]

would love to see a study on the toxicity of butane fumes as compared to metal off-gassing!

 

[budski]

just tested new caps to old with the arrival of the bundle, everything squeals on the ceramo, new caps are worse, cxl bowl not so bad . will report after further testing
ceramo runs hot even w/trww stinger, and need to have the cap fins bent in, and back out to fit cxl

 

[TigoleBitties]

So I just tried another Ceramo bowl with the Wand and everything went really well. This time there was no screeching and the roast came out really nicely . I don't have a CXL so I have no prior same size caps to compare the new Camo Cap to but when I inspect it closely, I don't see signs of corrosion but I do see perhaps minor imperfections on the surface. I don't know enough about metalworking to say if this is poor quality or not.

My Wand timings (everything at 800F) are 14 flashes from cold for the first heat cycle and then 10 flashes for each re-heat. All timings should be +/- 1 flash and I insert from the back at a position where the Wand just barely engages the tip as directed.

 

[XoGnosis]

Does it whine with the inductor (I don't have one)? Does it fit in any other induction heater to test?

I have not been able to trigger the whine with the inductor at my usual voltage on any of my xl caps, but I can not consistently reproduce it with my wand either. I have 2 titanium cxl caps, the new stainless cap that came with the ceramo and the pre-order super capacitor.
I have heard the whine from the stainless cap on the ceramo twice in the wand and I have seen the cap rotating while heating a few other times.

Can you describe exactly how you're able to consistently generate the whine? (not that I want to hear that unholy screeching ever again - but I'd like to be able to do A vs B comparison and try various placements/tension levels for the caps as ways to eliminate it)

 

[budski]

touching the glass in the wand to spread out vibrations seems to help and no timer for me, draw after 10 sec and let go of the button when I sense vapor, before removing from the wand so the magnetic field doesn't pull the cap off.

 

[hotmeals]

no doctor would approve even the highest quality metal as safe

I don't think most doctors would "approve" any vape as being "safe", and if they did, I think most would have no problem with high quality metal. I haven't seen any corrosion on my Ceramo caps, the whine doesn't bother me, and I'm not convinced that the whine necessarily indicates anything about quality. I am very annoyed that I can't get my caps to grip the polished ceramic stem properly though.

 

[n0tu2]

would love to see a study on the toxicity of butane fumes as compared to metal off-gassing!

believe it or not when high quality butane is burned it emits only carbon dioxide and water vapor. Stress on highly refined butane (colibri, newport, xicar brands) the higher the quality the better the burn and release of those harmless by-products .. when you read all the bad shit about butane it's about people huffing it to get high from the can .. that is highly toxic and pretty dumb to do.. stick to the whippets, lol!

the worry comes more from using vapes with direct butane torching in the airpath while your inhaling and stoners using cheap dollar store butane that may not fully combust when torching (spits) and you wind up inhaling that shit.

 

[n0tu2]

I have not been able to trigger the whine with the inductor at my usual voltage on any of my xl caps, but I can not consistently reproduce it with my wand either. I have 2 titanium cxl caps, the new stainless cap that came with the ceramo and the pre-order super capacitor.
I have heard the whine from the stainless cap on the ceramo twice in the wand and I have seen the cap rotating while heating a few other times.

Can you describe exactly how you're able to consistently generate the whine? (not that I want to hear that unholy screeching ever again - but I'd like to be able to do A vs B comparison and try various placements/tension levels for the caps as ways to eliminate it)

just holding the cap with a pair of tweezers and insert from the bottom for a second.. as soon as the wand engages/1st yellow blink I hear it.. it's not very loud (be in a quiet room) but a high pitched squeal/buzz is heard.. og cxl cap and supercapacitor cap are dead silent when doing the same

 

[XoGnosis]

just holding the cap with a pair of tweezers and insert from the bottom for a second.. as soon as the wand engages/1st yellow blink I hear it.. it's not very loud (be in a quiet room) but a high pitched squeal/buzz is heard.. og cxl cap and supercapacitor cap are dead silent when doing the same

as I mentioned I've heard it a couple times, I would not call it quiet in those cases, it was above conversation level and quite noticeable, I just can't consistently make it happen with ceramic tweezers at any depth with any cap nor with any cap on the ceramo. I was hoping you had some specific method that worked every time so that I could try to replicate it with the inductor. my suspicion is that since the inductor is physically in contact with the cap it would prevent those harmonics (the way touching the glass liner of the wand would).

overall I'm still on the fence about the ceramo xl. I haven't been able to get any of my caps except the super cap to stay tight enough on the polished ceramic to be comfortable using it native, and it's too tall for my tastes as a wpa so I don't enjoy using it upright (in which orientation the cap obviously stays put).
I'll probably keep it but I doubt it will be in regular rotation, and I'm having a hard time thinking of any use case for which it is my first choice. I agree with what others have said, that it should have included the mouthpiece and better cooling (I think they're using us to bankroll production). it feels unfinished and rushed, but in all honesty I feel similarly about all camouflet products I've tried - like they are concepts of products but haven't quite been completed. for the ceramo I would like to have seen a matching mouthpiece and machined surfaces for the outside of the bowl and the 14mm taper of the mouth, similar to the phase 3 zx and zbowl since they are mating surfaces. I won't get into my thoughts about the other camouflet creations in this thread except to say that I believe they all need tweaks. Between the unfinished feel of this release and the karmic baggage that comes with their association with Hopper Labs, I probably won't be giving them any more of my business.

 

[RedZep]

Mine just arrived. The mp end is scuffed and scratched all over. Looks like a heavily used second hand unit.

It's also clear by eye that they got the tolerences wrong on the bowl. The bowl is smaller as the walls incorrectly point slightly inwards towards the end unlike the CXL. This is why there are fit issues. Which is why the adjustment tool is an afterthought.

I won't be testing the cap as I don't think it's up to standard health wise, never mind the poor fit or screeching

This release is a big miss imo. Shame considering the excellent CXL. If Camouflet decide to stick with this new cap for all their units, then I would bet money on this company not existing soon.

Maybe I'm a chump for risking the none refund status of the pre order, but I thought that was just for people changing their minds, so they could get accurate production numbers. I didn't think it meant that units would be shipped with zero quality control discernment. I'll be looking up my consumer rights and take it from there.

 

[Ariwe]

I've dialed mine in pretty well after the reply from Camouflet and @TigoleBitties heating tips.
I put the wand just as far down as it needs to engage, 15 flashes, and one RTL hit.
Then another one 10 flashes for clean up (probably will not do this going forward as it's not tasty nor producing much vapor.)
I only use it through glass (no water) and cooling hasn't been an issue at all. The screeching is also much less than it was before after 4-5 sessions but it's still audible.

 

[budski]

I found the screech minimal if I touch it to the glass and let go of the button for a second if it gets louder. acts like a pre-combustion alarm. but it needs something for cooling and that's with quick hit half bowls.

I would get just a bowl and cap but even at the sale price it's only 15$ more w/the stem condenser box & lighter

 

[stonedBBer]

Just got mine, anyone else's stem look like it was rushed through QC? Also the welds on my cap are horrific.

Yeah mine is chipped

 

[budski]

sorry to see the chipped units, I got the 420 bundle and it seems to be 1st quality. still a fight to keep the cap on.

 

[T9R]

I found the screech minimal if I touch it to the glass and let go of the button for a second if it gets louder. acts like a pre-combustion alarm. but it needs something for cooling and that's with quick hit half bowls.

I would get just a bowl and cap but even at the sale price it's only 15$ more w/the stem condenser box & lighter

That one in the middle looks crazy - sick stem!

 

[SlickHenry]

Sounds like following the previous delay and all the kickback they just wanted to get the units out ASAP and some weren't up to standard. I would suggest you reach out to them and I am sure they will sort you out. They've always been really quick to respond to me and provide decent customer service compared to others, who I will not name.

My stem is nice and I am happy with it. I really think the cap screeching is caused by the SS rather than anything else. It seems to be getting better and doing it less especially if just target only the plates, maybe just needs time to bed in.

Like others have said a lot of other devices use metals that are not necessarily top quality. Breathing hot air passing through any material is far from healthy. I can also understand concerns and people wanting to minimise risks. The marks on my cap have not got any worst so I am wondering if it was caused by me putting the hot device onto something like the bamboo box.

I get that we got a great price on the initial unit but agree maybe it needed to be refined a bit more, which is what they are trying to do now. It still works really well but just needs cooling to use natively. Camouflet are far from a bad company in my book.

 

[NorthernHigh420]

I would imagine the noise is from expansion when heated chat gpt supports this theory lol

 

[budski]

That one in the middle looks crazy - sick stem!

It's a rosewood pipe stem I got from Fanghorn, steel lined and heavy but bastard sized fittings, didn't know what to do w/it, had to makeshift a custom silicone grommet to hold the bowl in, not real secure but works, and super thin oring for the mp/condenser.

 

[Camouflet]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for sharing your feedback on the Ceramo XL. We see there are some questions and concerns, let's get everyone up to speed.

Ceramo XL
Conceptually, Ceramo XL is designed to be a pure ceramic device with no additional parts or materials in the air path. We always strive to make unique and innovative products, the one-piece solid ceramic zirconia design of Ceramo XL meets these goals.

Ceramo XL essentially has a built-in single bore ceramic tube, similar to the regular Convector, but without the need for o-rings. From customer feedback and internal data we felt that this design was the best option. Data and feedback shows preference towards the single bore vs the quad bore in the regular Convector and Convector XL customers have been requesting an XL single bore ceramic tube option. Keeping versatility in mind, we made the inner diameter of the Ceramo XL 8mm to be compatible with the regular quad bore tube we offer and other 3rd party parts. Many of our customers have existing accessories and want to mix and match parts. With this design customers get the option of a pure ceramic air path with a built-in single bore ceramic tube without any need for assembly of extra parts, the option to use the quad bore insert with o-rings and/or the ability to use 3rd party 8mm mouthpieces or inserts from their collection.

It should be noted that any additional cooling in any device will remove some constituents. Our theory is it is best to start with the highest delivery option and adjust from there.


XL Cap
The XL Cap has been revised to all Stainless Steel. There were some concerns voiced by customers regarding the potential for build up on the Titanium XL Cap. We listened to feedback and updated the XL Cap housing to Stainless Steel(the exact same alloy used for the heater plates in all Convector Caps to date). This Stainless Steel alloy (430 series) has greater Iron content and is optimal for induction heating. An all Stainless Steel cap also has other benefits; greater heat retention, more robust welds between the heater plate and the cap housing, magnetic for contact with cooling/removal tools. This was a decision made from an efficiency, performance, overall quality/longevity of the device and customer feedback, not to lower our production costs as some have insinuated in recent posts.

With Stainless Steel, the laser welds can be slightly more visible but this is a worthwhile trade-off for a more robust weld bond. The fitment of the XL Cap can be adjusted with the new Cap Adjustment Tool. The screeching some people have reported when heating with the wand is most likely related to the metal vibrating while in the induction field and/or the metal contracting/expanding when heated. We have not encountered any screeching when testing and from reports it doesn't seem to be consistent across the board. The wand is a 3rd party product that we don't have control over. We have not heard any reports of screeching when using the Inductor. If the XL Cap design needs to be addressed we will do so.


Cap Adjusment Tool
The included Cap Adjustment Tool was designed due to slight tolerance/variances on the fins of the caps and outer diameter of the chambers. The Tool can be used on all Convector caps, including the regular Convector. This was also implemented from customer feedback to avoid having Caps that are too tight and get stuck or sitting too loose on the chamber.


New Camouflet Moutpiece and Cooling Media
We are stoked on the new Camouflet Mouthpiece! The prototypes are excellent and production is underway. We've been wanting to create a Mouthpiece compatible with all the Convectors for some time now. We received many requests from customers to create a matching black ceramic mouthpiece for the Ceramo XL and we started forwarding designs to the factory to confirm feasibility for production. The requirements for the ceramic Mouthpiece design proved challenging but after some tweaks and revisions we solidified the design and placed the order for the mould and prototypes. This is a timely and costly process, product development and production does not happen over night. This was not an afterthought but rather an ongoing work in progress. We did not want to delay the shipping of the Ceramo XL at the expense of releasing the Mouthpiece on the same timeline. It would've been nice to do so but the Mouthpiece completion is scheduled for May.

We have also been testing different cooling media options for some time and our results have shown that the 3 different options of Glass, Nano Carbon and Stainless Steel beads offer the best performance and versatile configurations:

-Glass for general cooling.

-Nano Carbon for cooling and new/unique added filter properties.

-Stainless Steel for cooling and induction heating properties.

The Stainless Steel beads can be placed in the Ceramo XL air path, first, so they are directly behind the chamber screen. The remainder of the stem can be filled with glass and/or nano carbon beads creating a thermal break between the metal beads and other material = low heat conduction throughout cooling media. We've had request from customers to offer a "post" chamber heating option and this was a feasible solution. We also wanted to provide a Stainless Steel bead option that is induction heater compatible to allow 3rd party devices powered by "ballvape" heaters to be compatible with the Inductor.

Hopefully that covers everything. We always have our customers best interest in mind when making decisions related to Camouflet and our products. We understand that our customers and supporters have questions and concerns from time to time and we are always here to address them. We are always working on improving our products and company operations, protocols and procedures. Camouflet is a small company still in start up phase, pouring all funds back into the company to ensure sustainability and success. This is no easy feat, especially in today's current economic climate. Thanks to all our supporters, all of this is possible thanks to you. Thanks to everyone who's sent us countless emails about your positive experience with Camouflet and our creations. We look forward to sharing more awesome and innovative products in the future!

 

[Durbandream]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for sharing your feedback on the Ceramo XL. We see there are some questions and concerns, let's get everyone up to speed.

Ceramo XL
Conceptually, Ceramo XL is designed to be a pure ceramic device with no additional parts or materials in the air path. We always strive to make unique and innovative products, the one-piece solid ceramic zirconia design of Ceramo XL meets these goals.

Ceramo XL essentially has a built-in single bore ceramic tube, similar to the regular Convector, but without the need for o-rings. From customer feedback and internal data we felt that this design was the best option. Data and feedback shows preference towards the single bore vs the quad bore in the regular Convector and Convector XL customers have been requesting an XL single bore ceramic tube option. Keeping versatility in mind, we made the inner diameter of the Ceramo XL 8mm to be compatible with the regular quad bore tube we offer and other 3rd party parts. Many of our customers have existing accessories and want to mix and match parts. With this design customers get the option of a pure ceramic air path with a built-in single bore ceramic tube without any need for assembly of extra parts, the option to use the quad bore insert with o-rings and/or the ability to use 3rd party 8mm mouthpieces or inserts from their collection.

It should be noted that any additional cooling in any device will remove some constituents. Our theory is it is best to start with the highest delivery option and adjust from there.


XL Cap
The XL Cap has been revised to all Stainless Steel. There were some concerns voiced by customers regarding the potential for build up on the Titanium XL Cap. We listened to feedback and updated the XL Cap housing to Stainless Steel(the exact same alloy used for the heater plates in all Convector Caps to date). This Stainless Steel alloy (430 series) has greater Iron content and is optimal for induction heating. An all Stainless Steel cap also has other benefits; greater heat retention, more robust welds between the heater plate and the cap housing, magnetic for contact with cooling/removal tools. This was a decision made from an efficiency, performance, overall quality/longevity of the device and customer feedback, not to lower our production costs as some have insinuated in recent posts.

With Stainless Steel, the laser welds can be slightly more visible but this is a worthwhile trade-off for a more robust weld bond. The fitment of the XL Cap can be adjusted with the new Cap Adjustment Tool. The screeching some people have reported when heating with the wand is most likely related to the metal vibrating while in the induction field and/or the metal contracting/expanding when heated. We have not encountered any screeching when testing and from reports it doesn't seem to be consistent across the board. The wand is a 3rd party product that we don't have control over. We have not heard any reports of screeching when using the Inductor. If the XL Cap design needs to be addressed we will do so.


Cap Adjusment Tool
The included Cap Adjustment Tool was designed due to slight tolerance/variances on the fins of the caps and outer diameter of the chambers. The Tool can be used on all Convector caps, including the regular Convector. This was also implemented from customer feedback to avoid having Caps that are too tight and get stuck or sitting too loose on the chamber.


New Camouflet Moutpiece and Cooling Media
We are stoked on the new Camouflet Mouthpiece! The prototypes are excellent and production is underway. We've been wanting to create a Mouthpiece compatible with all the Convectors for some time now. We received many requests from customers to create a matching black ceramic mouthpiece for the Ceramo XL and we started forwarding designs to the factory to confirm feasibility for production. The requirements for the ceramic Mouthpiece design proved challenging but after some tweaks and revisions we solidified the design and placed the order for the mould and prototypes. This is a timely and costly process, product development and production does not happen over night. This was not an afterthought but rather an ongoing work in progress. We did not want to delay the shipping of the Ceramo XL at the expense of releasing the Mouthpiece on the same timeline. It would've been nice to do so but the Mouthpiece completion is scheduled for May.

We have also been testing different cooling media options for some time and our results have shown that the 3 different options of Glass, Nano Carbon and Stainless Steel beads offer the best performance and versatile configurations:

-Glass for general cooling.

-Nano Carbon for cooling and new/unique added filter properties.

-Stainless Steel for cooling and induction heating properties.

The Stainless Steel beads can be placed in the Ceramo XL air path, first, so they are directly behind the chamber screen. The remainder of the stem can be filled with glass and/or nano carbon beads creating a thermal break between the metal beads and other material = low heat conduction throughout cooling media. We've had request from customers to offer a "post" chamber heating option and this was a feasible solution. We also wanted to provide a Stainless Steel bead option that is induction heater compatible to allow 3rd party devices powered by "ballvape" heaters to be compatible with the Inductor.

Hopefully that covers everything. We always have our customers best interest in mind when making decisions related to Camouflet and our products. We understand that our customers and supporters have questions and concerns from time to time and we are always here to address them. We are always working on improving our products and company operations, protocols and procedures. Camouflet is a small company still in start up phase, pouring all funds back into the company to ensure sustainability and success. This is no easy feat, especially in today's current economic climate. Thanks to all our supporters, all of this is possible thanks to you. Thanks to everyone who's sent us countless emails about your positive experience with Camouflet and our creations. We look forward to sharing more awesome and innovative products in the future!

Thanks for the reply, but one problem I'm having is that I don't see how you could not have encountered the screeching problem when using the wand given how common it is here. Did you mean you didn't test it with the wand or that none of the caps you tested with the wand made the noise?