What makes cannabis medical?

howie105

Well-Known Member
The known and proven body of knowledge out stripped the individuals ability to absorb or process it all a long long time ago. So much to most of our day to day life is controlled by our shared default beliefs not by our actual personal knowledge. The trick is to remain sanely open to the possibilities and respect those that see things differently.
 

little maggie

Well-Known Member
The in hospital study provides a direct response to the thread topic. I posted it before but I find the results so interesting that I'm repeating them. Even though it's likely that the patients were combusting and not vaping they showed lower odds of mortality and lower odds of cardiac disease and heart failure than non-smokers.
 

Flower of empathy

Sometimes to stupid to become a fool
Accessory Maker
The trick is to remain sanely open to the possibilities and respect those that see things differently.
i get what u are saying, but imo the sanely openness line is crossed by bringing up false facts without any proof or source.
A fact is a fact until proven wrong. An apple will fall to the ground, no matter how different others see it or whatever conspiracy theory is fabricated. Conspiracy has no space in natural science, there is enough room for that at politics...

The in hospital study provides a direct response to the thread topic. I posted it before but I find the results so interesting that I'm repeating them. Even though it's likely that the patients were combusting and not vaping they showed lower odds of mortality and lower odds of cardiac disease and heart failure than non-smokers.
no doubt, an interesting study with positive and negative hints for future research, but the statistical approach has its benefits (many discoverys base on that) and weaknesses like the depth of the data eg dosage - maybe the increased stroke rate had something to do with high doses...
Does anyone know what the usual usage method in a hospital is? guessing it's edibles or how common is weed smoking at US hospitals :D ? - the study has a time frame of 2007 till 2011 so it probably changed a bit since, oil pens and so on...
 
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little maggie

Well-Known Member
I agree that it's an older study. But almost all the other studies I've seen that use this method and are done by medical researchers only provide negative data about cannabis use. Hopefully this study will lead to newer and more reliable research.
 
little maggie,

howie105

Well-Known Member
i get what u are saying, but imo the sanely openness line is crossed by bringing up false facts without any proof or source.

Its a funny perception thing, you are right we all usually agree that apples fall to earth but what if they are on the moon or in zero gravity. People have a funny way of seeing, believing and defending whatever it is they want. My approach is let folks go their own way because enlightening folks often turns into useless circular debate.

Conspiracy has no space in natural science, there is enough room for that at politics...

I didn't mean to introduce the concept of conspiracy into the discussion, my apologies?
 

Flower of empathy

Sometimes to stupid to become a fool
Accessory Maker
apples fall to earth but what if they are on the moon or in zero gravity
would be no trouble even with good old newton, same for the planet falling on the apple - but there is still the probabillity of a snake giving the apple to adam and eve before it falls :D yes, senseless circular debate...

I didn't mean to introduce the concept of conspiracy into the discussion, my apologies?
no sorry that wasn't directed towards you - it's more a common stereotype that is used far too often to make false claims look credible, some people claim to have witnessed such things even at presidential debates ;)
 
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grokit

well-worn member
What a great thread, been meaning to catch up on this finally doing it. But for now I will say that I am for sure in the camp that all cannabis use is medical, even if you don't know it at the time you're using it.

I don't know why people seem to think that Cannabis is more special than any other plant, in terms of it's connection to the human species.
I disagree, even the bible is full of canna-inspiration (jump to MARIJUANA AS THE CHRISTIAN SACRAMENT).

cf75692dd5391263d549caab7912cc06.jpg

I'll just leave this here for now :spliff:
 

little maggie

Well-Known Member
What a great thread, been meaning to catch up on this finally doing it. But for now I will say that I am for sure in the camp that all cannabis use is medical, even if you don't know it at the time you're using it.


I disagree, even the bible is full of canna-inspiration (jump to MARIJUANA AS THE CHRISTIAN SACRAMENT).

cf75692dd5391263d549caab7912cc06.jpg

I'll just leave this here for now :spliff:
I thought this was kind of a joke. But it's not. Apparently there's a lot of data to indicate that in ancient Egypt and Israel cannabis was used medicinally and recreationally. And there's references in the bible and talmud. But it's banned in both countries now. Interesting info grokit.
 

EverythingsHazy

Well-Known Member
What a great thread, been meaning to catch up on this finally doing it. But for now I will say that I am for sure in the camp that all cannabis use is medical, even if you don't know it at the time you're using it.


I disagree, even the bible is full of canna-inspiration (jump to MARIJUANA AS THE CHRISTIAN SACRAMENT).

cf75692dd5391263d549caab7912cc06.jpg

I'll just leave this here for now :spliff:
So is all opioid use medical? Just because something as medical effects, doesn't mean it's use can't be for recreational purposes ("recreational use"). Adding the word "use" to the terms "recreational"/"medical" indicated that you're referring to the purpose of its use.

Something being in the Bible doesn't mean it is more connected to humans. Sheep are mentioned in the Bible. They are not more connected to humans than rats or ferrets or moles.

Also I doubt most of those quotes are about Cannabis. One is about alcohol, one is about grapes, one mentions a plant that fruits every month (Cannabis doesn't), etc.. they're a lot of reaching there.
 
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little maggie

Well-Known Member
So is all opioid use and medical? Just because something as medical effects, doesn't mean it's use can't be for recreational purposes ("recreational use"). Adding the word "use" to the terms "recreational"/"medical" indicated that you're referring to the purpose of its use.

Something being in the Bible doesn't mean it is more connected to humans. Sheep are mentioned in the Bible. They are not more connected to humans than rats or ferrets or moles.

Also I doubt most of those quotes are about Cannabis. One is about alcohol, one is about grapes, one mentions a plant that fruits every month (Cannabis doesn't), etc.. they're a lot of reaching there.
I usually agree with your posts and I do agree about opoids. But apparently there is quite a bit of info out there- especially by biblical scholars- that indicate that cannabis was used within the culture and is in the old testament. I don't know if the specific posts grokit mentioned are the ones that talk about cannabis but they have been studied. And just because something was used by people thousands of years ago doesn't mean it is healthy. But it is in the old testament. I guess how one views that depends on how literally someone takes the bible. Which I don't.
 

EverythingsHazy

Well-Known Member
I usually agree with your posts and I do agree about opoids. But apparently there is quite a bit of info out there- especially by biblical scholars- that indicate that cannabis was used within the culture and is in the old testament. I don't know if the specific posts grokit mentioned are the ones that talk about cannabis but they have been studied. And just because something was used by people thousands of years ago doesn't mean it is healthy. But it is in the old testament. I guess how one views that depends on how literally someone takes the bible. Which I don't.
I don't doubt that Cannabis was used in those times, or even that it might be in the Bible under different names, but I don't believe that those specific quotes were mostly about Cannabis.

I also don't believe that just because the Bible says that something is good, that it is. There is a lot of brutal stuff in the Bible that anyone with common sense would condemn these days, and then you'll also find stuff like the teaching that eating shellfish is an abomination.

According to the Bible, evolution didn't happen. Are we going to use that book to scientifically validate the opinion that Cannabis is more closely connected to the human species than other plants?
 
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grokit

well-worn member
So is all opioid use and medical?
It's very useful if used properly. In fact, it may be the oldest & most powerful medicine we know of :tup:

"Opium is mentioned in the most important medical texts of the ancient world, including the Ebers Papyrus and the writings of Dioscorides, Galen, and Avicenna. Widespread medical use of unprocessed opium continued through the American Civil War before giving way to morphine and its successors..."

Opiates are the only substance that will disconnect the mind from the central nervous system, and besides pain can they can be very helpful for anxiety, insomnia, and emotional support & balance. Precisely because it's so difficult to get an opiate prescription for any condition besides acute pain, some suffering people end up self-medicating with heroin. Their usage would be completely safe if their dosage was supervised by a doctor, with less side-effects than ssri's or 'atypical anti-pstchotics', two common anxiety drug classes.

:sherlock:
 
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EverythingsHazy

Well-Known Member
It's very useful if used properly. In fact, it may be the oldest & most powerful medicine we know of :tup:

"Opium is mentioned in the most important medical texts of the ancient world, including the Ebers Papyrus and the writings of Dioscorides, Galen, and Avicenna. Widespread medical use of unprocessed opium continued through the American Civil War before giving way to morphine and its successors..."

Opiates are the only substance that will disconnect the mind from the central nervous system, and besides pain can they can be very helpful for anxiety, insomnia, and emotional support & balance. Precisely because it's really hard to get a prescription for opiates for any condition besides acute pain, some suffering people end up self-medicating with heroin. Their usage would be completely safe with medically supervised dosage, with less side-effects that ssri's or 'atypical anti-pstchotics', the two classes of drugs used for anxiety.

:sherlock:
I think you misunderstood what I was getting at. I am not against opioid use, nor am I saying it doesn't have very useful medical potential. What I am saying, is that using it to get stoned isn't what I'd classify as "medical use". I'd consider that "recreational use" of a drug that has medical potential.
 

grokit

well-worn member
I understand your perspective @EverythingsHazy, but still wonder why medical use, and enjoyment of any substance has to be mutually exclusive. Why can't we enjoy our medicine? It makes me think of a certain flying nanny with her spoonful of sugar, cannabis is way better for you than sugar is, so, um ... what was I talking about again? It's been too long since I've last medicated, so I'll have to get back to you on that.
;)

giphy.gif


Cannabis isn't "nothing like alcohol". Just because it works differently, and is safer, doesn't mean it's not a drug used to get buzzed.
Right but alcohol is a neurotoxin, while cannabis has neuroprotective properties :tup:

Sorry for the late replies, still catching up!

:sherlock:
 
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MinnBobber

Well-Known Member
Opioids are one tool in the medical toolbox, and they have a place for serious serious pain etc.
The trouble is that many docs use it as a primary tool, where many conditions don't need this level of power and this level of fatal side effects.

On an average day in the U.S.: More than 650,000 opioid prescriptions dispensed.
Source: IMS Health National Prescription Audit1 / SAMHSA National Survey on Drug Use and Health2 / CDC National Vital Statistics System3

That is 237,000,000 opioid prescriptions in a year. What happened to the "do no harm" mantra? Way overkill and this does kill thousands :(

What is the strength of current med practice? Acute care;
Acute care is a branch of secondary health care where a patient receives active but short-term treatment for a severe injury or episode of illness, an urgent medical condition, or during recovery from surgery.

Our acute care is generally excellent. Installing heart stents is almost an outpatient task :)

Our preventative medicine is bad though. We seem to have the very little emphasis on prevention and cannabis is showing itself to be a superb preventative /wellness agent. This is where all med cannabis programs fall short and why we need full legal.
Try applying for a med cannabis program where you want to micro-dose for wellness, to tune your own ECS, so your body systems work toward homeostasis . Reject that app...
 

little maggie

Well-Known Member
I understand your perspective @EverythingsHazy, but still wonder why medical use, and enjoyment of any substance has to be mutually exclusive. Why can't we enjoy our medicine? It makes me think of a certain flying nanny with her spoonful of sugar, cannabis is way better for you than sugar is, so, um ... what was I talking about again? It's been too long since I've last medicated, so I'll have to get back to you on that.
;)

giphy.gif



Right but alcohol is a neurotoxin, while cannabis has neuroprotective properties :tup:

Sorry for the late replies, still catching up!

:sherlock:
I don't think there's any objection to people enjoying their meds. But I think it's a stretch to say that it has medicinal effects for every recreational user whether they know it or not.
 
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grokit

well-worn member
237,000,000 opioid prescriptions in a year. What happened to the "do no harm" mantra? Way overkill and this does kill thousands :(
Europe gives addicts a safe space to medicate, with medically supervised and controlled dosages that do reduce harm, much better than anything we've tried. Of course our methods are much more exploitative, and therefore profitable. What we do is over-correct every couple of decades so we can 'help' the patients caught up in the crossfire. If you're an opiate manufacturer you can't make a profit because the patents are all played out, but you have the most physically addictive drug known to humanity. So how about spinning off franchised pain management and addiction rehab facilities, there's much more profit in that. And of course all of the drug warriors need something else to hone in on now, with cannabis being legalized.

:tinfoil:
 
grokit,

C No Ego

Well-Known Member
Since we have gone in so many directions on this thread I fell it is safe to say we know of the medical qualities in cannabis yet remain to not know ( learning) how much and what types are for You... Yes= Respect the Herb lest it Not serve You and Be Grateful that plants are here to help Humanity - Peace

I think you misunderstood what I was getting at. I am not against opioid use, nor am I saying it doesn't have very useful medical potential. What I am saying, is that using it to get stoned isn't what I'd classify as "medical use". I'd consider that "recreational use" of a drug that has medical potential.

For myself, this is personal... if i do not reach a place of moderate stone I do not benefit from the pain reducing qualities I seek from the bush... that is not to say that i take that approach every time I use cannabis, sometimes it's just a slight bump and others a direct Slam! When I'm sitting there in a full body stone it is what i was after when the pain was to much...

Opioids are one tool in the medical toolbox, and they have a place for serious serious pain etc.
The trouble is that many docs use it as a primary tool, where many conditions don't need this level of power and this level of fatal side effects.

On an average day in the U.S.: More than 650,000 opioid prescriptions dispensed.
Source: IMS Health National Prescription Audit1 / SAMHSA National Survey on Drug Use and Health2 / CDC National Vital Statistics System3

That is 237,000,000 opioid prescriptions in a year. What happened to the "do no harm" mantra? Way overkill and this does kill thousands :(

What is the strength of current med practice? Acute care;
Acute care is a branch of secondary health care where a patient receives active but short-term treatment for a severe injury or episode of illness, an urgent medical condition, or during recovery from surgery.

Our acute care is generally excellent. Installing heart stents is almost an outpatient task :)

Our preventative medicine is bad though. We seem to have the very little emphasis on prevention and cannabis is showing itself to be a superb preventative /wellness agent. This is where all med cannabis programs fall short and why we need full legal.
Try applying for a med cannabis program where you want to micro-dose for wellness, to tune your own ECS, so your body systems work toward homeostasis . Reject that app...

Medical insurance companies have Raped the idea of preventive medicine! Even though insurance is based on preventive harms they got the preventive medicine part wrong
 

Tranquility

Well-Known Member
Medical insurance companies have Raped the idea of preventive medicine! Even though insurance is based on preventive harms they got the preventive medicine part wrong
I received an email from our medical insurance company (Anthem) touting how awesome they are at fighting the opioid crisis.

Their plan was:
Our company was among the first to limit benefits for short-acting opioids and set up programs to monitor longer periods of use. The aim was to reduce prescriptions for these drugs and prevent accidental addiction.​

Mission accomplished!
We've just reached our collective goal of reducing prescribed opioids filled at pharmacies by 30 percent - nearly two years earlier than originally projected.

Insurance companies saving money by not providing benefits! They don't do it for profits, they do it because they care.
 

C No Ego

Well-Known Member
I've come up with terminology to explain the plant cannabinoids ( therapeutically active molecular compounds IE crystals!) as non harmful and safely as possible... That would be -... Free Form Cannabinoids...( FFC)
Think very very small little tiny particles that enter in and out of cells, there are unknown amounts of surface receptor channels ( CB) on each and every cell in you. We have identified CB1 and CB2 receptor potential and the mechanistic action but have not characterized the mass potential of all the receptors... our own cellular receptor channels ( endocannabinoid receptors) identify with endogenous cannabinoids (endocannabinoids) that are bio-synthesized @ the exact moment they are needed.. We make these endogenous cb signalling agents from arachidonic acid that is supplemental applied through Food we eat- most importantly correct Omega 3 to 6 ratios in the amounts required to supply the cascade of lipid hydrolyzed proteins ( http://www.bionity.com/en/encyclopedia/G_protein-coupled_receptor.html ) ( http://www.bionity.com/en/encyclopedia/Lipid.html ) leading to calcium influx IE cannabinoid signaling......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arachidonic_acid
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essential_fatty_acid_interactions

https://www.nap.edu/read/24625/chapter/1
https://www.nap.edu/read/24625/chapter/4

below quote used from nap links so as to explain secondary metabolites IE cannabinoids ^ - for reference AEA is Anandamide = THC which activates cb1 receptor and 2-AG = CBD which modulates CB2 receptor

"Multiple human and animal studies support that endocannabinoids play a key role in memory, mood, brain reward systems, drug addiction, and metabolic processes, such as lipolysis, glucose metabolism, and energy balance. [5]


Several competing pathways for AEA biosynthesis have been described. The best-described pathway is shown in the figure below. AEA biosynthesis is initiated following a postsynaptic neuronal depolarization and an influx of calcium. The calcium then activates N- acylphosphatidylethanolamine-hydrolyzing phospholipase D (NAPE-PLD) and diacylglycerol (DAG) lipase, each of which forms AEA and 2-AG, respectively. [4, 6] The anterograde neurotransmitter transmission and retrograde EC modulation form the closed signaling loop depicted in the figure below."


Cannabis plant species creates plant cannabinoids for it's own biological purposes. Because of this fundamental plant biological structure we can benefit from those supplemental cannabinoids upon ingestion as Free Form Cannabinoids( FFC) ... the plant cannabinoids represent a bio-mimicry shape specific structure that signals the Human endogenous receptor pathways .. upon ingestion plant cannabinoids stay bound to fat until they become metabolized at the receptor ion channel unlike endocannabinoids that get synthesized for use on demand...
utilizing the already created structures refers to the free form ( FFC) I am emphasizing here... IMO If our diets were not so out of balance with incorrect ratio omega 3 to 6 balance etc... we would not even notice a buzz from cannabis because our receptors would be firing naturally @ all times...




https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5006560/
" For example, terpenes such as α-pinene and limonene provide characteristic organoleptic (taste and aroma) profiles in cannabis strains, but may also contribute to pharmacological profiles through their actions at transient receptor potential channels or other biochemical enzymes or substrates, including cannabinoid receptors (β-caryophyllene is an example); hence the current interest in terpenes."


http://www.cmcr.ucsd.edu/index.php
https://grants.nih.gov/grants/guide/notice-files/not99-091.html

Cannabis Constituents- this study shows over 750 secondary metabolites
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=To+date,+...tituents+encompasses+numerous+p&t=ffcm&ia=web


to explain diet and cannabis as secondary metabolites
https://wikivisually.com/wiki/Secondary_metabolite#cite_note-1

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/bph.13676/full#references

http://themodern.farm/studies/Omega-3 Deficiancy Abolish Endocannabinoid Function.pdf

Thanks goes Out To Raphael Mechoulam for this article on how cannabis molecules started neuro sciences-dedicated = to the person who slammed this thread!
http://www.beyondthc.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/eCBSystemLee.pdf

to show what it is exactly that cannabis molecules signal....
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/Structure/mmdb/mmdbsrv.cgi?Dopt=s&uid=144618


A great person to explain it to You- He's a Biochemist and cure himself with cannabis

https://patients4medicalmarijuana.wordpress.com/how-cannabinoids-kill-cancer-dennis-hill/

And what he wrote...
http://incrediblehealingjournals.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Cytokine-Cascade-by-Dennis-Hill.pdf

explained too..
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24858620

More on mitochondria activity
http://www.jneurosci.org/content/29/7/2053.long
http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/307/1/E1

cool study on pain and vaping away pain
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3566631/

some lite reading on CBD
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5441138/

petition back in 2013 for cannabis medical studies

http://media.wix.com/ugd/b72a4e_e88348b93436e74dea366be39a6b47e2.pdf

I could go on for days linking these but I digress for a while LOL Enjoy!
 

chris 71

Well-Known Member
C No Ego those are some awesome links thanks
has me really inspired to get the cannabinoids back into my system . especially after reading some of the stuff about cbd and even 1to1 ratios thc to cbd . i was doing so much better before i stopped using cannabis . and some of this reading has me convinced more then ever that it really was so helpful to me . both mentally and physically when dealing with my graves and mental health issues .
 

CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
Cannabis & Digestion
It's no secret – experiencing “the munchies” is one of the most obvious cannabis clichés. Despite the silly connotation, studies suggest that the endocannabinoid system actually helps modulate appetite. This is especially interesting for the treatment of eating disorders. In fact, a study published in the International Journal of Eating Disorders suggests that cannabinoids may prove effective in treating anorexia.

Cannabis is also famously used to reduce the feelings of nausea but studies suggest it could have a number of digestive benefits as well. Medical marijuana could play a role in a number of digestion-related health conditions including:

Medical Marijuana For Pain Management
backpain.jpg
Chronic Pain is one of the most common ailments for which doctors prescribe medical marijuana and a recent survey published in The Spine Journal found that 1 out of 5 patients at a Colorado spine center were using cannabis to manage their pain. Of those, nearly 90% said it greatly or moderately relieved their pain.

The spine clinic study was merely a survey, which means more research will be necessary on the potential role of cannabis in treating back pain. With that said, plenty of people will tell you it helps manage pain and science is beginning to back their claims. Studies suggest medical marijuana could offer relief for various types of pain, including the following:

 

Ohmie

Govrnmnt fund adult circumcision & frenuloplasty!
Cannabis plant species creates plant cannabinoids for it's own biological purposes. Because of this fundamental plant biological structure we can benefit from those supplemental cannabinoids upon ingestion as Free Form Cannabinoids( FFC) ... the plant cannabinoids represent a bio-mimicry shape specific structure that signals the Human endogenous receptor pathways .. upon ingestion plant cannabinoids stay bound to fat until they become metabolized at the receptor ion channel unlike endocannabinoids that get synthesized for use on demand...
utilizing the already created structures refers to the free form ( FFC) I am emphasizing here... IMO If our diets were not so out of balance with incorrect ratio omega 3 to 6 balance etc... we would not even notice a buzz from cannabis because our receptors would be firing naturally @ all times...
I remember posting about this in another thread. I mentioned Marijuanas self defense mechanisms which I'd heard included attracting carnivores to it's vicinity w it's aroma/munchies to scare away herbivores. LOL, Another feminine trait, right?
Marijuana apparently coexisted with dinosaurs. I think the article was from IFLS(IFuckingLoveScience). I never did find it so I ould post the link, but it would makes sense to me and would be pretty crucial to the plants effects overall.
This molecule eerily resembles my Vapor Koozie.Lol
mmdbimage.png
zjdnr5.jpg
 
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