The "Project" DIY Herbal Vaporizer

[natural farmer]

and maybe a thread releated to those fashion Mods these MAS infected guys are spreading around..?

Too much spreading of info though? And it's still a small thread so... Over at Divine Tribe atty's thread which is a lot bigger there is a ton of mod info as well.
Do you guys think we need separate threads for logos, mods, settings? What would the main thread be about then?

I also took a look at that Witcher mod in a YouTube video and there is no TCR so MAS can cool down for now...

EDIT: Just watched a review of the Movkin big fella as well and no TCR... Just an extra CC mode for ceramics.

 

[ander]

Do you guys think we need separate threads for logos, mods, settings?What would the main thread be about then?

Logos? So cosmetic... so yes. Done! Mods? Well... the ones that are confirmed to work with the project surely suit better the main thread... Settings? No... but Firmware... yes. My opinion obviously, and a maniacal one..!
But hey, it's just the project evolution... no?

 

[natural farmer]

Logos? So cosmetic... so yes. Done! Mods? Well... the ones that are confirmed to work with the project surely suit better the main thread... Settings? No... but Firmware... yes. My opinion obviously, and a maniacal one..!
But hey, it's just the project evolution... no?

 

[fluffhead]

Yeah, same, I learned a fuck of a lot taking it apart and putting it back together. Empowerment! I've slowly and carefully fiddled with my very imperfect coil, finding which bit was causing the heat concentration and just spreading that bit of the coil out with a pair of tweezers to get things a bit more even. I still stir or turn for completions sake tho. One day I'll get round to making a better coil but until this one breaks, it works just fine The trickiest bit for me was definitely that little white washer bit!

Are you getting that incredible taste the Eraser provides?

I totally agree, it is very empowering to understand how to take the vape apart and put it together. I have been turning the stem but I haven't been stirring much. I don't find stirring gets me much beyond the visually appealing even abv. And yes, I am surprised how good the flavour is right until the end of the bowl. What has been also surprising is how smooth and cool the vapour has been. It is a convection vape with a potentially short vapour path (I use air stems), which is potential for a harsh hot vapour. However, I find it quite cool, tasty, and smooth!

Mod Acquisition Syndrome is real I am afraid... I was so happy VAS was weakening but....

I was actually lucky to be shown this one at my local shop, the new all-black version which I think is more beautiful than the one with the silver details but tastes are tastes, right?

The all black version is the one that I am interested in. But it isn't just mods, but also I look on fast tech for coil making tools, ways to improve stems, extra coil to make, shit, I need to stop.

Agreed about FF visits. Always end up throwing something in the cart. Keep an eye on stock levels as if one is waiting restocking, it holds up the whole order. Just split your order, no charge. Also, keep batteries on a separate order as they ship them via a different route usually. Another tip is to always check the shipping options. Discovered for me an option for Canada packet for an addition 90 cents. Cuts shipping down to 2 weeks with a valid Canada post tracking number from the start. Huge improvement from the 1 1/2 month wait....

Yeah, my cart has been building for days. Thanks for the tip about stock, I'll make sure to keep an eye on that. Thankfully I am set with batteries for a little while because I still wouldn't be able to order them from ft. Using that extra $1 got me the cuboid in 11 days thankfully. And the tracking is definitely helpful too.

 

[JackBrus]

@natural farmer - are you sure?

https://www.ecigone.co.uk/Movkin-Disguiser-150W-Box-Mod

 

[natural farmer]

@natural farmer - are you sure?

https://www.ecigone.co.uk/Movkin-Disguiser-150W-Box-Mod

No mention about TCR...

 

[JackBrus]

Features:

• Color: Black & Whie
  
• Dimension: 61mm*45mm*81mm
  
• Display: 0.91 inch big OLED screen
  
• Output: 5-150W with Kanthal, Ni, Ti and SS Modes 100-300℃, 200-600℉ 0.1-3Ω for Wattage Mode and 0.05-2Ω for Temp Control Modes
• Elastic derlin driptip enable both short and long size tank fitted
  
• 25mm diameter space for the tank, even the TFV4 can work in it
• 510 Spring Loaded connector
• Any stardard driptip can sit on the top of the derlin driptip
• Windows on the back door enable the air flows in and watch the e liquid level clearly

Or do they mean something else? You know way more of mod boxes than I do.... Thanks !

Apart from the question if this thing has or hasn't Temperature Control, there is the question: will we be able to fit an RDA "deep" in it? This picture suggests that Movkin does not want that: if you want to use an RDA, they suggest some sort of pipe, so that the RDA still mounts on top of the box - which is what we do not want !

Could this be related to heat? The oven gets hot, better to have that on top of the battery (and maybe use some insulation and cooling fins in between) than right next to the battery ?

By the way, has no one here gone a step further? Either use fat cable and move the 510-connection of an existing mod box to the place where we want it; or even start from scratch and build your own mod box ? http://www.modmaker.co.uk/VV-VW-Boards/Evolv-DNA75

Edit: with building your own mod box, you are even free to ditch the RDA form factor. You could for instance make a heated glass oven (coils on the outside of the glass, set to as medium temperature) PLUS coils in the airpath that leads to this oven. That way your herb is already "pre-heated" when the hot air hits it.

Also, the airpath could be much longer, maybe spiralling, so that you can put more or bigger coils in it. Resulting in much more surface for heat transfer from coils to air. Which in turn means your coil temps can go down = longer coil life and (even) less risk of off-gassing of metal particles......

Perhaps the 'perfect' (does it exist? ) DIY atomizer would have to be powered by a custom controller, so that you can control the various coils separately. For instance:

Startup:
- Oven coil gets 150 Watts for 10 seconds, after that 25 Watts till a max of 190°C is reached.
- coils in airpath get 100 Watts for 2 seconds, after that 35 Watts. T max = 240°C

etc. etc.

Sorry for derailing the thread

 

[natural farmer]

Features:

• Color: Black & Whie
  
• Dimension: 61mm*45mm*81mm
  
• Display: 0.91 inch big OLED screen
  
• Output: 5-150W with Kanthal, Ni, Ti and SS Modes 100-300℃, 200-600℉ 0.1-3Ω for Wattage Mode and 0.05-2Ω for Temp Control Modes
• Elastic derlin driptip enable both short and long size tank fitted
  
• 25mm diameter space for the tank, even the TFV4 can work in it
• 510 Spring Loaded connector
• Any stardard driptip can sit on the top of the derlin driptip
• Windows on the back door enable the air flows in and watch the e liquid level clearly

Or do they mean something else? You know way more of mod boxes than I do.... Thanks !

I am still new to this mod passion as well but from the YouTube review I saw I get the impression that the fourth setting is not TCR but an extra setting for ceramic atomisers, it could be just a different naming though and can be used like TCR... I don't know and I wouldn't buy one to check it out as I prefer stealthier, smaller mods at the moment. I prefer to carry an extra battery in my little vape case and holding a tiny tool while vaping than an all-inclusive solution...

Apart from the question if this thing has or hasn't Temperature Control, there is the question: will we be able to fit an RDA "deep" in it? This picture suggests that Movkin does not want that: if you want to use an RDA, they suggest some sort of pipe, so that the RDA still mounts on top of the box - which is what we do not want !

Could this be related to heat? The oven gets hot, better to have that on top of the battery (and maybe use some insulation and cooling fins in between) than right next to the battery ?

By the way, has no one here gone a step further? Either use fat cable and move the 510-connection of an existing mod box to the place where we want it; or even start from scratch and build your own mod box ? http://www.modmaker.co.uk/VV-VW-Boards/Evolv-DNA75

Edit: with building your own mod box, you are even free to ditch the RDA form factor. You could for instance make a heated glass oven (coils on the outside of the glass, set to as medium temperature) PLUS coils in the airpath that leads to this oven. That way your herb is already "pre-heated" when the hot air hits it.

Also, the airpath could be much longer, maybe spiralling, so that you can put more or bigger coils in it. Resulting in much more surface for heat transfer from coils to air. Which in turn means your coil temps can go down = longer coil life and (even) less risk of off-gassing of metal particles......

Perhaps the 'perfect' (does it exist? ) DIY atomizer would have to be powered by a custom controller, so that you can control the various coils separately. For instance:

Startup:
- Oven coil gets 150 Watts for 10 seconds, after that 25 Watts till a max of 190°C is reached.
- coils in airpath get 100 Watts for 2 seconds, after that 35 Watts. T max = 240°C

etc. etc.

Sorry for derailing the thread

I don't think you are derailing... I think that you are thinking ahead and you would certainly be very welcome to get in out little company and share more of your forward thinking ideas with us! I am sure the future will be very interesting mod-wise!

It's just that this is so new... I am sure more designs will come forward in the future. Why don't you try building something like that? @Pipes has already tried some crazy ideas over the Bulli thread if you have been through it. I remember a glasses case turned into a vape at some point!

 

[EmDeemo]

and maybe a thread releated to those fashion Mods these MAS infected guys are spreading around..?

I'm not infected, I'm just trying to infect other people!

 

[JackBrus]

... you would certainly be very welcome to get in out little company and share more of your forward thinking ideas with us! I am sure the future will be very interesting mod-wise!

It's just that this is so new... I am sure more designs will come forward in the future. Why don't you try building something like that?

Thank you, @natural farmer. Indeed... time to start building ! See if my wife won't kill me, we are rebuilding our house, which still is not finished. But first things first! First a good vape and then the rest of the work is easy...or at least pleasant

 

[Copacetic]

It's the mesh. I never had luck using mesh myself neither. Even those notch coils out there don't seem to be TC friendly.
Problem is the resistance doesn't change enough to ever hit the set temp. Maybe try setting the TCR extremely low might help.

Thanks Pipes, I just tried the TCR right down at 2, which is as low as the mod allows, and the mesh still goes to red hot in a few seconds.

It's s shame as the mesh makes a really good heater, just not with TC
If I put the mod into NC mode, there is a slight delay getting up to red hot, and a momentary dip below red hot, but then it goes right up to red again, and stays there.

I wonder if using a heavier gauge mesh with a lower resistance would result in a greater change in resistance under load? ( I confess that I know nothing about how metals behave under these conditions, and whether what I hope for has been observed )

That would be ideal though as the heavier gauge mesh might be less 'floppy' and easier to wrangle into the required zig-zag shape.

Ordering mesh would violate the 'no new parts' rule of my self assigned vape-heap challenge, but might be worth it if I could get TC to work.

Something that I've observed with all the mesh heaters I have connected up is that they start at a very high resistance (1.8ish I think) until they have been red hot a couple of times when they stabilise at a much lower resistance.
I wonder why this occurs?

My mod doesn't seem to register changes in resistance while firing, as it stays at 0.87 Ohms throughout.
Or maybe the mesh resistance simply doesn't change (measurably), but that seems unlikely to me if SS wire changes under load.

This is the folded ribbon from the side (deck is on the 'extender' that came with the mod):

This is the heater from above:

This is how it looks while firing ( doesn't look much like it in the pic', but it glows very evenly apart from the corners at the top):

This is the whole thing, with the bamboo tube that I'm currently using as a stem (Stem has two screens inserted, herb goes between them, white stuff on stem is just micropore tape to prevent over insertion/contact with top of heater):

Does anyone have any idea how I could get the mod to recognize a resistance drop which would allow proper use of TC mode?

 

[Pipes]

This is very interesting stuff. In my experiments, the trouble with mess is having the two contacts at each being uniformly connected across the entire length of the side. Connecting to the center, like you have done, causes the electrons to converge at that point. This makes the whole resistance change totally non-linear and thus, unpredictable. Maybe confusing the mods algorithm..?
This was one of my earliest attempts which clearly shows the non-linear heat distribution. Most of the heat goes to the center post where the connection is.


Love discussing further, but could we move it the the Bulli thread? Thanks.

 

[Copacetic]

This is very interesting stuff. In my experiments, the trouble with mess is having the two contacts at each being uniformly connected across the entire length of the side. Connecting to the center, like you have done, causes the electrons to converge at that point. This makes the whole resistance change totally non-linear and thus, unpredictable. Maybe confusing the mods algorithm..?
This was one of my earliest attempts which clearly shows the non-linear heat distribution. Most of the heat goes to the center post where the connection is.


Love discussing further, but could we move it the the Bulli thread? Thanks.

Sure thing!
I too tried a circular screen, but it was too little distance between contact points, and resistance was way too low.
Perhaps a much wider solid contact would help?
Anyway I'll get to the Bulli thread and start reading!

 

[KeroZen]

I was on 60w for a while but now using 80.

lowered the TCR to 145, power at 75W

I only start to get a weak battery signal with my LG HG2's when they are down to 3.80Vs but they still do the job until 3.60V or something.

No, no, no!

I hate to be the self-appointed battery safety pain in your ass, but you guys really leave me no choice! And I have to repeat myself over and over...

It's not because your mod allows you to select a given setting that your cells can handle it! At the moment there are only a handful of cells on the market able to safely deliver 80W in single-cell configuration. Namely Sony VTC3, VTC4 and LG HB2, HB4, HB6, and that's all. Those are mostly 1500mAh 30A cells.

You should not get the "weak battery" signal ever. It's not the same thing as "low voltage". It means you are drawing too much for the cell and it's sagging too much under load.

Please use this tool to simulate your battery drain: http://www.steam-engine.org/batt.asp?b=LG_18650HG2&mah=3000&c=6.666666666666667

For the LG HG2 in single-cell configuration, and assuming a mod efficiency of 90%, when setting the power to 80W you are already drawing 21.16A at 4.2V and then it gets higher and higher. At 3.6V you're drawing close to 25A, for a cell that is rated at 20A maximum.

This simulation is valid for most of the cells we use btw (Samsung 25R for instance, which is not 25A as the name could lead you to believe but only 20A, LG HE4, Sony VTC5 etc)

In reality it's even worse as the HG2, like the 30Q and VTC6 are only 18A and not even 20A.

Now if you are using a dual-cell mod you may disregard the above of course!

Do you guys think we need separate threads for logos, mods, settings? What would the main thread be about then?

If think like @Pipes that we should at least create a thread for the myevic firmware. And I also add that we should create a custom fork specially for our dry herb needs and centralize the development over there.

PS: @Copacetic yeah your custom RDA should be better discussed in the BULLI thread as to not derail the Project one too much. See you over there!

 

[funkyjunky]

No, no, no!

I hate to be the self-appointed battery safety pain in your ass, but you guys really leave me no choice! And I have to repeat myself over and over...

It's not because your mod allows you to select a given setting that your cells can handle it! At the moment there are only a handful of cells on the market able to safely deliver 80W in single-cell configuration. Namely Sony VTC3, VTC4 and LG HB2, HB4, HB6, and that's all. Those are mostly 1500mAh 30A cells.

You should not get the "weak battery" signal ever. It's not the same thing as "low voltage". It means you are drawing too much for the cell and it's sagging too much under load.

Please use this tool to simulate your battery drain: http://www.steam-engine.org/batt.asp?b=LG_18650HG2&mah=3000&c=6.666666666666667

For the LG HG2 in single-cell configuration, and assuming a mod efficiency of 90%, when setting the power to 80W you are already drawing 21.16A at 4.2V and then it gets higher and higher. At 3.6V you're drawing close to 25A, for a cell that is rated at 20A maximum.

This simulation is valid for most of the cells we use btw (Samsung 25R for instance, which is not 25A as the name could lead you to believe but only 20A, LG HE4, Sony VTC5 etc)

In reality it's even worse as the HG2, like the 30Q and VTC6 are only 18A and not even 20A.

Now if you are using a dual-cell mod you may disregard the above of course!




If think like @Pipes that we should at least create a thread for the myevic firmware. And I also add that we should create a custom fork specially for our dry herb needs and centralize the development over there.

PS: @Copacetic yeah your custom RDA should be better discussed in the BULLI thread as to not derail the Project one too much. See you over there!

i dont know in detail how its done, but the weak battery signal is actually a protection mechanism and not just a warning message.
the software measures the internal resistance of the battery and can somehow predict its power capabilities. the weak battery protection lowers maximum output watts then accordingly to not drain the battery with a dangerously high current.
you can check the source of the myevic to see what is done in detail.

 

[Pipes]

I think your both right.
@KeroZen in stating we can't get the power levels we ask, when the battery is not capable to provide.
And @funkyjunky in that the mod will stop taking power when battery is low. Although, no predicting involved. Simply measuring the voltage and assigning functions to a couple values. These points are even alterable. Let's say it see 3.1 volts. Time to flash low battery. Then if it gets to 3 volts it starts to cut in and out. Finally, if below, let's say 2.8 v, not turn on at all. Not real magic, just a programmer deciding what the device should do at different measurements.

 

[KeroZen]

Right, thankfully our mods are protected, so this shouldn't be too dangerous in practice. Yet the cell has to sag first in order for the protection to kick in, so it's putting too much strain for a short while (and it's also putting too much strain all the times before it kicks in, when it's sagging but not "enough")

 

[funkyjunky]

its different from the low battery mechanism which is indeed just values. its a formula which depends on cutoff,batteryvoltage and internal resistance of the battery. search for SetBatMaxPower() in the myevic source to see how its done.

im not sure if those few milliseconds (these things are evaluated at a high rate) our mods need to realize whats up are really outside off battery specifications. the rating we are looking at is the continous one a small spike could be well tolerated by the batteries since pulse current is much higher.

im not saying our batteries are not dangerous! not at all! but i doubt we are doing dangerous things to/with them. also i like to think that i can replace a battery after a while if it was really to drop in its stats over time.

what you say is of most importance to unregulated devices in the subohms as they really start to draw a lot of amps when voltage is low.

still,we dont want accidents and im no battery vendor/engineer!

 

[marduk]

Hi guys,

here is an updated version of the firmware. The changes made are

* fix bug of loosing shift value when the mod is switched off/batteries removed
* fix bug on rx23/wismec not displaying the shifted value
* set shift value up to 100 for celsius and 200 for farenheit. increase by 1 or 5 depending of selection celsius or farenheit
* when you change from one to another, the shift value is zeroed. this avoids taking over a value >100 from farenheit to celsius, and also a value which is not %5 from celsius to farenheit
* when firing, display shifted value (temp-shift) only if the result is >0, if not show only temp. this avoids values <0 at the beginning of firing

http://ge.tt/4nkKJPi2

Kind regards

Thanks so much for this! I noticed that the timeout is only 15 seconds now... is there any way you could bump it back up to 25 seconds?

 

[EmDeemo]

No, no, no!

Now if you are using a dual-cell mod you may disregard the above of course!

Yep, dual cell here, leave me out of this!

In all seriousness tho, I wouldnt judge you for reminding us all, better safe than sorry!

 

[Pipes]

Thanks so much for this! I noticed that the timeout is only 15 seconds now... is there any way you could bump it back up to 25 seconds?

Yes, Much Thanks indeed!!! I've been testing and like it. The benefit being that it automatically brings down the top heat limit too.
Setting up is easy too. Just set up the way we were before manual changing of ohms was possible. Where the working numbers would be around 500-520F area. Now you just establish what number you want to call 370F. Or whatever temp you feel you taste the temp best at. Note the display number, say 510F and subtract 370, which gives a difference of 140. Go the expert and find the newly added line by @m0qu4 called "offset" and change to -140. When you exit, the display should now say 370F. Providing it was at 520F before entering the menus. Same idea for you C lovers.
Now, the part which makes it safer from manually changing ohms, and the part I like, if you keep clicking the up it will roll over at 460F. This is the new 600F. Of course the low end now makes no sense as starts under room temperature...lol
Personally, the 15 sec is fine. And safer...?

 

[marduk]

Personally, the 15 sec is fine. And safer...?

I'd never put the Eraser in a pocket or bag without doing a 5-click... I'm super cautious when it comes to Li ion batteries and heat. Is there any reason other than protection against accidental button presses to consider 15 seconds safer than 25?

I tweaked the coil a bit (.550 ohms now) and changed to the PID settings (1600, 80, 0) posted by @m0qu4... Now I get a very stable temp without any overshoot, but it takes a few seconds to get up to temp so vapor comes later in the draw. Pulsing the button works, but it seems to drain the battery faster. And it's just nicer to be able to hit the button, hold it, and forget about it until done.

 

[natural farmer]

No, no, no!

I hate to be the self-appointed battery safety pain in your ass, but you guys really leave me no choice! And I have to repeat myself over and over...

It's not because your mod allows you to select a given setting that your cells can handle it! At the moment there are only a handful of cells on the market able to safely deliver 80W in single-cell configuration. Namely Sony VTC3, VTC4 and LG HB2, HB4, HB6, and that's all. Those are mostly 1500mAh 30A cells.

You should not get the "weak battery" signal ever. It's not the same thing as "low voltage". It means you are drawing too much for the cell and it's sagging too much under load.

Please use this tool to simulate your battery drain: http://www.steam-engine.org/batt.asp?b=LG_18650HG2&mah=3000&c=6.666666666666667

For the LG HG2 in single-cell configuration, and assuming a mod efficiency of 90%, when setting the power to 80W you are already drawing 21.16A at 4.2V and then it gets higher and higher. At 3.6V you're drawing close to 25A, for a cell that is rated at 20A maximum.

This simulation is valid for most of the cells we use btw (Samsung 25R for instance, which is not 25A as the name could lead you to believe but only 20A, LG HE4, Sony VTC5 etc)

In reality it's even worse as the HG2, like the 30Q and VTC6 are only 18A and not even 20A.

Now if you are using a dual-cell mod you may disregard the above of course!




If think like @Pipes that we should at least create a thread for the myevic firmware. And I also add that we should create a custom fork specially for our dry herb needs and centralize the development over there.

PS: @Copacetic yeah your custom RDA should be better discussed in the BULLI thread as to not derail the Project one too much. See you over there!

@KeroZen, I really appreciate your warning but I am not sure I understand what you are saying we should do then...
Lower the wattage? How low?
I tried steam-engine but I am not sure what I am doing there. Am I supposed to use the Battery Drain Calculator or the Ohm's law one? BDC doesn't have temp control mode, just VV and VW and I don't know which one to choose and Ohm's Law Calc changes the resistance (while locked together with Watts) when I try to enter the values for Voltage so I can get the Amperage.



EDIT: I experimented a bit with lowering the voltage but the weak battery signal came again around 3.7V, even at 50W.
Milaana was also too cold under 3.7V, so I see some similarities here... Battery gets a little warm if you take a series of long hits in a short time but nothing that says danger.

 

[ander]

The Project landed here too... so afraid and excited that I don't know what to do..!

I'm not even able to screw it on the Reuleaux... It will be a hard, long way to heaven..!

Well... it simply doesn't screw on. Makes me feel so dumb.

That... metal "dice" in the center seems not exactly placed horizontally... could it be the problem?

 

[rabblerouser]

I think I had to just push a little harder than expected, if i recall.