Vaporizer Heath Forum (My Visit With Dr. Welby)

[Pappy]

This could be an extension of numerous threads, including some of my own, but since vaporists often find the health impact of vaporizing detrimental -- a recent sampling --
http://www.fuckcombustion.com/viewtopic.php?pid=53175#p53175
http://www.fuckcombustion.com/viewtopic.php?pid=53319#p53319
http://www.fuckcombustion.com/viewtopic.php?pid=53349#p53349
http://www.fuckcombustion.com/viewtopic.php?pid=81593#p81593
http://www.fuckcombustion.com/viewtopic.php?pid=82140#p82140
http://www.fuckcombustion.com/viewtopic.php?pid=111732#p111732
http://www.fuckcombustion.com/viewtopic.php?pid=111879#p111879

I thought I'd start a dedicated thread... We're all different organically! What I mean to say is Stone Monkey and Vtac have different lungs so they may or may not have similar or dissimilar experiences under the same set of circumstances (vape, meds, etc).

Names are interchangeable... We all have different organs! So to make patent equations about this vape or that technique is ridiculous IMO, as patently ridiculous as trying to quantify the proper sweet-spot of this vape or that!

Being an old codger concerned about my health (although I understand lwein is at least 35 years older ) I just dropped a grand on a couple of consultations with a Pulmonary specialist. Besides chronic Bronchitis, which I gather most members on FC have, my primary symptoms were spitting up phlegm that was suspiciously the color of the solidified amber vapor in my EQV whip. BTW the medical def of "Chronic Bronchitis" is excessive sputum or spitting two or more months in any given year. Personally, I spit much less when I don't vape so there's a cause and effect equation.

At any rate I'm gonna live! But sometimes I feel people on FC wear rose colored glasses in regard to the health impacts of vaping. If I was in my 20s or 30s I wouldn't give two shits either! But that's part of the vaping delusion. No vape is perfect and if you vape funky homemade shit through filthy inferior equipment, as many on FC do, it can have consequences. IMO vaping is no panacea! It must done correctly with clean equipment and good meds!

So what did I glean from Dr. Welby for $1000? Musta spent $750 educating him. At first he thought Pappy was fucking nuts! I whipped out my iPhone and showed him my Flicker bong collection. Then I explained I have a bong injury. The breakthrough came on my second visit when I showed him a 2 inch cut of my EQV whip -- the same color of the spit I spit after I vape. He/we had a Perry Mason moment. My cilia are expelling vapor particulates normally for a dude my age. But particulates do penetrate all my phancy glass! Another way of looking at this if you don't spit up particulates after vaping you may have a problem!

The most surprising takeaway with the Doc was a discussion about the benefits of warm/hot versus room temp/cold vapor bonging. He feels warm/hot vapor bonging is no no. The heat turns into mist and congests the upper bronchial tract. I'll be damned! My proclivity for hot vapor bonging is what might've led me to Dr. Welby in the first place.

 

[lwien]

Besides chronic Bronchitis, which I gather most members on FC have....

Really? Why would you think that most members have chronic Bronchitis? I never thought that but I could be wrong.

The most surprising takeaway with the Doc was a discussion about the benefits of warm/hot versus room temp/cold vapor bonging. He feels warm/hot vapor bonging is no no. The heat turns into mist and congests the upper bronchial tract. I'll be damned! My proclivity for hot vapor bonging is what might've led me to Dr. Welby in the first place.

Wow. Really? I use hot water ALL the time.

I don't have bronchitis or any congestion, probably because I vape very little as compared to most here and I run 16 to 20 miles a week. What's also kind of surprising about that is that when I use hot water in my bong, it feels better in my lungs, that is, it seems to open them up allowing for a bigger hit, which sounds contrary to what your doc says.

Now ya got me thinking about going back to cold water, which doesn't feel near as good in my lungs.

So did your doc say that it's better not to use a bong at all? Is the added moisture, be it hot or cold, not a good thing?

Keeping your whips and bongs clean, I would think is very important, especially considering that bacteria can grow in there (bongs and whips) and deep inhaling bacteria is not a good thing. Keeping bongs clean is pretty easy, but keeping whips pristine could be a real pain in the ass, eh?

Glad to hear that you're basically ok, Pappy.

 

[Pappy]

Pappy wrote:
Besides chronic Bronchitis, which I gather most members on FC have....
Really? Why would you think that most members have chronic Bronchitis? I never thought that but I could be wrong.

Per medical definition... "Chronic Bronchitis" is excessive sputum or spitting two or more months in any given year.

What's also kind of surprising about that is that when I use hot water in my bong, it feels better in my lungs, that is, it seems to open them up allowing for a bigger hit, which sounds contrary to what your doc says.
Now ya got me thinking about going back to cold water, which doesn't feel near as good in my lungs.
So did your doc say that it's better not to use a bong at all? Is the added moisture, be it hot or cold, not a good thing?

Surprised me too but I understood his explanation. Hot air rises! Gets caught in upper respiratory tract, leads to congestion and infection. Like the OP states people are different organism. You may be able to get away with hot water bonging due to your particular organs.

 

[lwien]

Pappy wrote:
Besides chronic Bronchitis, which I gather most members on FC have....
Really? Why would you think that most members have chronic Bronchitis? I never thought that but I could be wrong.

Per medical definition... "Chronic Bronchitis" is excessive sputum or spitting two or more months in any given year.

Another definition from WebMD: Chronic bronchitis means you have a cough with mucus most days of the month for 3 months of the year for at least 2 years in a row.

Do most member here have this? And for those that do, do they also smoke cigs? Chronic Bronchitis is a form of COPD and I would hope to God that most members here don't have this.

 

[Pappy]

^ I'm happy you're healthy! But if you read the links I posted, just today's, about different health maladies in a thread about exercise you'll see many members on FC have vape related health issues. In fact I believe a majority of people that vape began due to in one regard or another to their health.

That's why I posted this, a vapor community health poll, rather than random posts spread through a hundred other threads.

 

[lwien]

Yeah, Pappy. I too think this thread is a good idea. I just hope you're wrong about most of the members here suffering from COPD.

While I believe that some members here have turned to vaping due to an ongoing health issue, I would hope that most here have turned to vaping as a preventative measure. I know I did, and I really hope I'm not in the minority here.

Good thread though. And I agree that vaping does not come without it's risks and that it would be wise to minimize those risks by vaping high quality bud to cut the total amount that one vapes, to try and cut their consumption down regardless of the quality of their bud, to make sure that their bud is free from microscopic molds and pesticides and that their bud has been well flushed before curing, and that their vaping gear is as clean as they can possibly be. And fucking get out in the fresh air and exercise those lungs.

Going from combustion to vaping is a big step in the right direction, but it sure as hell doesn't mean that we're home free.

 

[Pappy]

Yeah, Pappy. I too think this thread is a good idea. I just hope you're wrong about most of the members here suffering from COPD.

The doc used the term "chronic bronchitis" so let's not redefine it as COPD. And having watched a million Cheech and Chong movies in addition to Pineapple Express, twice, pot without coughing is akin eating without shitting.

BTW I cough very little when vapor bonging. That's why I vapor bong! I cough when I spit up solidified vapor particulates that my lungs trap and expel. When I don't vape I don't cough because there are no particulates. I spit because I grew up in Brooklyn.

 

[lwien]

Yeah, Pappy. I too think this thread is a good idea. I just hope you're wrong about most of the members here suffering from COPD.

The doc used the term "chronic bronchitis" so let's not redefine it as COPD.

Nothing is being redifined here. Chronic Bronchitis, by definition, IS a form of COPD. So is emphysema. No getting around that.

 

[Pappy]

^ Go to YouTube, search bong hits, and see how many people don't cough.
You are the exception to the rule!

 

[lwien]

^ Go to YouTube, search bong hits, and see how many people don't cough.
You are the exception to the rule!

But do they cough with mucus most all of the time? I never said I never coughed. Sometimes, if I take too big of a hit and I get a lot of expansion, I'll cough, but it doesn't happen often 'cause I'm pretty good at being able to detect how much I'm taking in before the cough reflex hits, and mucous has never been an issue unless I'm down with a lung infection, which hasn't happened (knock on wood) for a very long time.

Am I the exception to the rule? I hope not.

 

[Snafu]

sometimes i cough and spit sometimes i dont just depends on the method and temp and if i am running the bag through a water filter or not

 

[Beezleb]

Pappy are you saying that doing something that causes an irritant to your lungs and when the lungs react you are prescribing it to bronchitis or some issue like that?

Not sure I believe that hot bonging is anymore dangerous than using in a steam room. Do you realize how many Europeans have steam rooms, well in Scandinavia anyways?

With that said, I do not hot bong. I do not feel any difference personally but it works for others. For medical use. Their are more dedicated medical marijuana forums with more medical users that can better assist a medical user in my opinion than here. Those that I deal with only use FC.com for general vaporizer information and the medical sites in obtaining more help for perspective issues. The medical issues I tend to help people with is far more complicated than what recreational user does.

In fact at times I feel some of the advice given for recreational users can be detrimental to medical users but in my experience that is largely dependent upon the person. I will give an example. Early an older person decided to try using marijuana. Terminal cancer and hated smoke. I recommended one thing but his son came here, via my recommendation and was promptly convinced to buy an "economy" style vaporizer and of course it was no use to the terminally ill patient for a few reasons. First, it was too difficult for him to inhale it due to his age/illness and he needed far more than would fit into a tube. Long story short, the son got the "economy vape" and "I" bought a vaporizer the better suited his needs. He has since passed away.

I recommend people come here to understand vaporizers but to go to dedicated medical marijuana sites to find out what others are doing who share their type of issues. This is more of a recreational user/light medical use forum in my view.

 

[lwien]

Not sure I believe that hot bonging is anymore dangerous than using in a steam room. Do you realize how many Europeans have steam rooms, well in Scandinavia anyways?

Good point Beez. I distinctly remember when I was a kid and if I had a congested chest due to the flu or something, my mom would fill a large pot with boiling hot water and told me to put my face over it with a towel over my head so that I could breath in the steam and I also distinctly remember how effective that was and the relief that I got.

I believe that doctors suggest that those seeking relief from chest congestion should go into a hot shower and breath in the steam as well.

Check out the following blurb from a site I just picked up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

How Long for Steam Shower for Relief of Chest Congestion?

Though it may be known as a home remedy, it is hardly a wives tale. A hot steamy shower will indeed relieve symptoms of chest congestion. Whether it's a steamy shower at home, a sit in the steam room at the gym or putting your head under a towel over a vaporizer, many mothers, doctors and even alternative medicine practitioners agree that steam will help relax your breathing and promote expectoration (coughing).

How Steam Works
Chest congestion is caused by both inflammation of the air passages in your lungs and the build up of phlegm in your chest. Relief from both of these situations comes from dilating (relaxing and opening up) those air passages so air flows more freely through them.

Steam is generated by hot water either in a shower or a steam room (steam bath) or in a vaporizer. Breathing in steam helps relax the muscles in your diaphragm, loosens the air passageways in your lungs and helps calm and regulate breathing. Standing in a hot shower or sitting in a steam bath also helps relax the rest of your body.

As your body and airways relax, the air passages in your chest and lungs open up, allowing for easier, more restful breathing. It also allows space to expectorate, that is cough up, the phlegm that has built up there.

There are medications that can accomplish this same result, but steam offers a chemical-free option to relieving this discomfort.

How Much Steam?

Most professional recommendations agree that steam treatments should last about 10 or 15 minutes. Recommendations say you shouldn't spend more than 10 or 15 minutes in a steam room at a time for safety reasons. A hot shower doesn't generate the same intensity of steam, so duration can be a bit longer. Two or three such treatments per day are recommended for best results.

Children and Toddlers
For children and toddlers suffering chest congestion, some doctors recommend starting a hot shower in the bathroom with the door closed. The water should be hot enough to steam up the mirror. Sit with the child in the steamy room, not actually getting into the shower, for 10 to 15 minutes in the morning and again before bed to relieve the symptoms. Parents also can pat the child's back--like when burping after meals--to help move the phlegm out.
----------------------------------------------------

I think the danger though is breathing in steam generated from dirty bongs, dirty bong water and dirty whips for those could be breeding grounds for all sorts of bacteria.

 

[Pappy]

Pappy are you saying that doing something that causes an irritant to your lungs and when the lungs react you are prescribing it to bronchitis or some issue like that?
Not sure I believe that hot bonging is anymore dangerous than using in a steam room. Do you realize how many Europeans have steam rooms, well in Scandinavia anyways?

We should learn to to take everything with a grain of salt. I was trying to make the point that we have different organs and may have different reaction to the same stimuli. I gathered from the Doc that the stimulus for coughing and spitting -- be it organic, environmental, or chronic MJ consumption -- is irrelevant. The definition of Bronchitis remains the same. So if you cough and spit regularly for x amount of time for any reason -- yes -- you have Bronchitis.

There's clearly a difference between a steam room with pure H2O aqua and a lungful of vaporized marijuana mist. One is water and the other is matter. That said, I bonged at room temp last night and it doesn't compare to using hotter water IMO. I was vaping with water hot enough to steam up my bong. I think I'm going to try luke warm aqua to find a happy medium.

 

[lwien]

There's clearly a difference between a steam room with pure H2O aqua and a lungful of vaporized marijuana mist. One is water and the other is matter.

Yeah, but I don't think that it's the "matter' that is really the issue, but rather the bacteria that it can generate. It seems to me that whatever matter may be in the vapor mist is soooo small, that healthy lungs should be able to process it without much difficulty.

Pappy, I thank you for posting this up for it has caused to be a bit more diligent in cleaning my mini-beaker and PD stems. I always rinse out the beaker with hot water after every use, but I think I'm gonna run some ISO thru it about once a week. The PD stems have gotten an ISO soak about once every 2 months, but I'm gonna jack that up to doing it weekly.

If a little extra care in cleaning can keep me a bit more healthy, I'm all for it.

 

[djonkoman]

well luckily I can say I don't have chronic bronchitis, altough I'm probably younger as a lot here who have problems like that
I'm also not yet in the phase of my life when you really begin to worry about your health, it's fun that vaping is healthier then smoking but the nicer effect is more impirtant to me
I never cough during vaping(or smoking, only a joint with tobacco or a big hit while I have a cold makes me cough), I only sometimes notice that after vaping my voice is a bit raw and sometimes I have to cough once(this is a light cough and afyer vaping I mean at least 15 minutes after vaping), and I feel some phlegm stuck wich comes loose with that cough, usually swallow it but at the ocassions I didn't it wasn't vape or smoke colored, just white or seetrough(don't remember actually...)

 

[charliedontsurf]

Two things: I use the steamroom every other day pretty much, I find it much better than a dry sauna for multiple reasons, mostly how it opens up the lungs as we've discussed.

I've never had serious agitation to any part of my body from vaporizing anything. Only when I was on a big, long solid extract kick did I start to cough shit up - green/yellow phlem maybe 3 times a day. Like Iwien I also keep my tubes very clean, and 90% of the time I vape through a bong, so maybe that helps.

 

[Stu]

I too have chronic bronchitis that I'm sure is a direct result of smoking cigarettes for 25+ years. When I started vaping with my Extreme Q, I noticed that I coughed less than when I smoked. But I still found myself coughing most of the time. When I use my LB, I cough much worse than with my Q. However since I've recently switched to vaping through a bong (thanks, Pappy!) I can get much bigger hits from my Q while hardly ever coughing at all.

My

 

[luchiano]

I truly think a lot of the lung irritation people feel when puffing herb is from them puffing dry herbs which causes the oils that hold moisture to suck up the moisture from the lungs and this is what gives that lung "burn" and coughing is the bodies way to bring more blood to the lungs and make more moisture. Some people don't have enough blood flowing to the lungs consistently due to a number of things from exercise to diet and this will leave more of these oils into the lungs longer and they will condense and become to big to be absorbed and when this happens your cilia will cause these oils to be spit out. This is why concentrates give this affect more than regular bud. The particulate plant matter is what tickles the throat and that causes coughing also.

I remember the first time I had moistened bud, I thought I got ripped off because it felt like flowers when they are fresh and I was so used to bud being dry and somewhat brittle and snaps. Then when I puffed on it, back when i just smoked, I felt no burn just a tickle to my throat which caused a little cough and I really thought I got ripped off because all the cues that told me I had good herb, besides taste, wasn't there and because my lungs weren't irritated I didn't get that initial rush so I told myself "damn all this money I paid for this small ass bag and nothing, shit I just have to deal with it", only to find myself being high as a kite a few minutes later and the blunt only 1/4 burned because it didn't burn so fast. Every since then I loved moistened herb.

This story was to show that moistened herb is good for people who want good feeling lungs and no association we have with smoking while not being active daily or eating foods such as garlic which helps keep your lungs clean by causes the lungs to spit out excess phlegm. If you want to prevent these problems get you some boveda packs or the very least some humidor beads and moisten your herb with whatever amount of moisture you want(60% is better for powders) and not worry about mold. If you think vaporizing is healthy, smooth and tasty now, wait until you moisten your herb right.

 

[Pappy]

^thank you luchiano. I never heard of moisturized herb but will look into it. I also sip water when I vape which I think was also one of your suggestions.

 

[lwien]

Yeah, it's one of the main reasons that I stopped drying out my herb awhile ago. The taste of herb that hasn't dried out is just sooooo much better. Yummmmm..........

 

[hemp;)goofy8cheerio]

if moist herb needed or want to keep that way, try piece of carrot in with the stash bag/jarit helps

 

[Alpha]

Not sure if this was discussed before but.........What size mesh screen do you use? I had terrible irritation and reduced lung function when I used a larger mesh size (the gong joint below the screen was a mix of particles and oil). I now use the Herborizer with the screens that came with my Supreme and 90% of my irritation is gone( the gong joint below the screen is now mostly oil). I also noticed other benifits like the oil seems to melt on the screen and consume itself with less waste. Another advantage was a stronger vortex effect and more even color at lower temps.

 

[Zot]

Before I started vaping, I always kept my herb in cigar humidors. It kept it 'fresh'.

 

[Bluntcrush]

Great thread everyone! Very informative! I have experienced a little lung burn, and this was after I switched to vaping. When I used to combust I would usually get 1 good cough per session and that was about it. I mostly only consume elbow packs these days, but I think that using a fan assisted hit helps not to overwork my lungs by inhalations that cause my lungs to do all of the work. A few good sips of vapor with the fan on 1 or 2 helps me to not have the lung burn (I think) but I also consume LOTS of H20... I never cough stuff up unless I am sick.