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Tincture Advice Wanted: Heated (quick) vs. Room Temp. (a month)

Discussion in 'Cooking with Cannabis' started by Nesta, Mar 29, 2016.

  1. Nesta

    Nesta Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    217
    Location:
    NY
    In the past I’ve made tincture using decarbed fresh bud in Everclear- heated for a few hours in a Pyrex cup, in a boiling water bath. And I was very happy with the results, it was potent stuff!

    Now it’s time for another batch & this time I’m thinking about making it without the heat- just decarbing the fresh bud (for 40 min. @ 240F), putting the ground flowers in a jar & covering with 190 proof Everclear & letting it sit for a month (shaking daily & straining before use).

    Has anyone used the no heat, slow method of making cannabis tincture?

    Are there any drawbacks? Any opinions on which method is better? Any tips?

    Is a month a reasonable period of time to let it absorb?

    [One reason I want to try it this way is that I have a gas stove & tho I’ve heated alcohol successfully in the past, it make me nervous & I’d hate to see it blow. Also, I’d like to know that the room temp method works].

    Any thoughts & insights are welcome. TIA


    Mod note: text color fixed
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 29, 2016
    mixchu69, Snappo, looney2nz and 2 others like this.
  2. The Stranger

    The Stranger Account Closed

    Messages:
    264
    Location:
    Black Hills
    Just a heads up, the black text is a little hard to read, but I'm also browsing on my phone.

    I did quite a bit of research in the summer when I picked up 4 ounces at once. I was going to make a tincture but never got around to it. I was living in an apartment and decarbing and smelling up everything is why deterred me mostly, I think.

    Anyways, this post is the one that I found most informative and helpful.

    https://forum.grasscity.com/threads/dragon-lite-another-tincture-thread.1217451/
     
    woolspinner and sickmanfraud like this.
  3. cptchronic

    cptchronic Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    54
    If you decarb your material prior to soaking in the Everclear you can do this without any heat. My understanding is that most of the THC is absorbed in about 3 minutes. I would recommend just letting your material soak for approximately 30 minutes. I've found this to extract about all that you can. Once you strain the material you should be good to go.

    However I would recommend evaporating the alcohol to give yourself the oil and then infuse that into coconut oil with soy lecithin. This will increase the bio availability of the cannabinoids and allow for better absorption. In the tincture the molecules have no fats to bind to making them only to be partially absorbed by your body.
     
    woolspinner likes this.
  4. Redrod

    Redrod New Member

    Messages:
    17
    If you lived in WA you could just go to the store and buy it.
     
    Paperback Writer likes this.
  5. Nesta

    Nesta Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    217
    Location:
    NY
    Reading thru the notes that I've gathered- I see a lot of people freeze both the herb & the Everclear before combining the two (when they don't heat the tincture). And the freezing seems to cut down on the time needed for the alcohol to absorb the goodies.

    I think that freezing is supposed to make the process more efficient. But I've also seen some comments that freezing is unproven science.

    Anybody have experience with the freezing method? Do you recommend it?
     
    woolspinner likes this.
  6. cptchronic

    cptchronic Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    54
    I believe freezing just keeps the Everclear from absorbing chlorophyll and other contaminants from the herb.

    But since your not dabbing this you do not have to freeze or atleast I normally don't whenever making oil for edibles. For dabbing always freeze.
     
    iVapeTooMuch, woolspinner and Nesta like this.
  7. sickmanfraud

    sickmanfraud Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    769
    I feel that I can answer your questions with confidence. I have been making 1-3 batches of Green Dragon (GD) every month for the last 3 years.

    I tried the sit out method, the heat method and the freezer method.

    The Freezer method https://forum.grasscity.com/threads/another-tincture-thread-try-it-youll-like-it.1102315/ works so much better and the tincture does not taste bad.

    You do not need to read the entire thread. The first couple of pages explain the theory and initial recipe. Once you are familiar with the process ask any questions you may have and we will all help you.

    I also only have a gas stove. What I do is to Heat the water in a pot to boiling then turn the stove off before you put your bowl containing the GD on the pot. This is creating a double boiler which is a safe way to reduce the GD.

    If someone else in the family needs the stove while I am in the process of reducing I have taken the pot to the dining room table before putting the bowl on the hot water. When to water in the pot cools I take the bowl off of the pot (and stove) and heat up the pot to boiling again. Once the stove is off I can safely reduce to the desired concentration.
     
  8. Nesta

    Nesta Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    217
    Location:
    NY
    Just the man I needed, good info- thanks!

    I'll get to the grasscity thread soon (actually I think I've read/bookmarked that). PsychSam tries my patience @ times, beats around the bush, get to it already! But has some excellent info.

    Let me ask you now tho: You do decarb 1st? Right?

    And from start to finish the freezing method takes what, just a day or two - vs. a month @ room temp?
     
  9. sickmanfraud

    sickmanfraud Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    769
    I decarb first, 240F for 40 minutes. Testing on PSaM's thread has shown 2 additional ways to decarb.

    One is to let the completed tincture age for 3-4 months to get the THCA to THC.

    Another option is to make a non-decarbed tincture, make a solvent transfer to coconut oil and heat the coconut oil in the oven until the bubbles stop (I never tried so ck the details on the thread.

    On Sunday I expect to get my monthly allotment. I will grind and decarb Sunday afternoon. Then into the freezer. Ethanol into the freezer too.

    On monday I will combine the freezing ethanol with the decarbed, frozen cannabis for about 2 hours agitating the mixture twice for 5 minutes.

    Strain and return unused ethanol and cannabis to freezer.

    Tuesday I repeat monday regarding mixing and shaking of ethanol and cannabis.

    After you have done the 2nd set of shakings you filter VERY WELL.

    You can then combine Monday's and Tuesday's ethanol and reduce. The tincture is ready once reduced.

    However there is a way to make the tincture taste better. You can doe the step of winterizing the tincture. This is accomplished by putting the completed tincture back into the freezer for 24-48 hours.

    Then take the tincture from the freezer. Wet a coffee filter with fresh ethanol so the tincture is not absorbed. Filter out the plant waxes.

    So, start on Sunday have a completed usable tincture on Tuesday. Pop back in freezer if desired to winterize then you have a completed usable and not bad tasting Tincture.

    Think of this. You are only totally busy for less than an hour over the couple of days. You can do other things while the tincture is in the freezer or filtering or reducing. Even when shaking the mixture I usually am watching something on youtube or my ipad.
     
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  10. CarolKing

    CarolKing Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur

    I made a tincture with trim and some bud. I used roughly 3/4 oz., ground it up in a coffee grinder. Did the decarb at 240 for 40 min. All the recipes call for a shortened decarb process? I wonderful why? Like 5 min.

    I let it sit with Everclear in a dark place for 10 days and made sure I shook it everyday. Then I put it in a water bath at 165 degrees for 30 min. I lowered the heat and cooked the alcohol down.

    It doesn't taste very good and I'm in the process of dosing. I bought some stevia to put in it and lemon extract so it's more tolerable to use by mouth. That wouldn't do anything to the potency long term? I was thinking about the stevia? I read somewhere that someone used stevia to sweeten their tincture.

    Thinking about making some home made lemon aid and put a whole dropper full in a glass. Last night I tried a half of a dropper and I didn't feel anything. It really burns under the tongue. I couldn't keep it there and I ended up drinking water. Even after 4 hours I felt nothing.
    It didn't help with sleep and it's made from a strong strain called Kryptonite.

    I wanted a really strong tincture where I only needed to use a tiny bit. I made some a few weeks ago and it wasn't very potent. I don't know if I felt anything. Maybe it's the cannabis?

    Edit
    I put part of the tincture back on the stove using a water bath and added 3 tablespoons of the Stevia and several drops of the lemon extract (pure extract). I wanted to make like a syrup making sure I didn't get the heat too high.

    I stirred it and kept eye on it. Every time I stirred, I licked the spoon not wanting anything to go to waist. My mouth and lips are coated with a bit of oil.

    I will put the tincture in a dark bottle with a dropper after its cooled. It taste better than it did.

    I'm hoping this batch has some kick. I hope I didn't use too much because I also took a dropper full.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2016
    mixchu69 likes this.
  11. sickmanfraud

    sickmanfraud Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    769
    @CarolKing the decarb was fine.

    Several issues: If you know exactly how much bud and how much trim you would have the starting point to establishing a dose.

    I have found that heat makes the taste totally disgusting (to me).

    Next time, try the freezer method it helps the strength and the taste.

    I always filter out the cannabis before I reduce. Whenever a person strains there is always some loss due to spillage, etc. I would rather loose from the non-concentrated so I loose less potency.

    As far a adding stevia and lemon extract I would be careful the tincture does not spoil. I would store any tincture with additives in the fridge.

    Believe me, there are very few folks who enjoy the taste of a tincture. My favorite way is to add the tincture to a cup of coffee. In the summer I have been known to use tincture in Iced coffee.

    for the future, I would recommend that you try to keep the tincture pure and cover the taste as you use it.

    Using the freezer method will help the taste a LOT. Not much you can do to stop the burn unless you want to make a solvent transfer to coconut oil or there are instructions to infuse sugar or splenda.

    https://forum.grasscity.com/threads/another-tincture-thread-try-it-youll-like-it.1102315/


    I suggest you read the first few pages to understand the rationale of the technique, then ask any questions you may have. There is an index.
     
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  12. CarolKing

    CarolKing Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur

    @sickmanfraud i have been busy this week mixing up the above Golden Dragon freezer recipe. I did each step then at the end I left both containers in the freezer with the alcohol and the cannabis an extra day and shook every few hours or so. It was very easy to strain with cheesecloth. Then I reduced it to a 1/3.

    I used 10 grams of cannabis and 12 oz of 190 proof Ever clear. I divided it in half and used two containers.

    When completed I was curious how it turned out, so I took approx 1/8 of the dropper. I also ate a spoon of peanut butter. The tincture doesnt taste very well. I think I will add some honey.

    I didn't notice anything then I had a teaspoon of what was left of the tincture that had sediment at the bottom of the jar. I didn't want that in my tincture but yet I didn't want anything to go to waste - then I had some dinner. That was enough for me to feel the tincture kick in about an hour later.

    Even though I was feeling the effects I still hadn't taken my walk. I was somewhat tired body wise but went walking anyway. I walked around the neighborhood for 45 min. My face feeling that numb feeling and listening to my iTunes. Body feeling very little pain.

    I'm still feeling the effects. It's been 4 1/2 hours. I think a 1/2 dropper might be the dosage. I will try again tomorrow with another dose later in the day. I will make sure I get all my chores done first. I don't want to have to drive.
    Tomorrow is the last Cannabis Medical Farmer's Market I will want to stock up. Prices are reasonable. Laws change July 1 here in WA. Originally the tincture filled the whole jar almost to the very top. I reduced it today using my crock pot for 7 hours.

    Here's a pic of the finished product. The dropper shows the golden color. This seems more potent than my other tincture that I made using just the cooking method. It wasn't potent enough. Thanks for your help. Wow it's taken me a while to type this out.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2016
    Vapenvy, mixchu69, ShovelHead and 3 others like this.
  13. looney2nz

    looney2nz Research Geek, Mad Scientist

    Messages:
    273
    Location:
    So Cal
    I've found 1 thing true in particular for using a cold process (no decarb at all)...
    maintaining all the compounds achieves a pretty astounding 'entourage effect',
    it's very distinct.
     
    wildything likes this.
  14. CarolKing

    CarolKing Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur

    I did the decarb in the oven at 240 degrees for 40 min. I notice many tincture recipes only call for a 5 min decarb. That doesn't seem long enough. I wanted it to turn out and not waste 10 grams of product.
     
  15. wildything

    wildything Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    193
    If you'r looking for a way to consume your tincture try mixing in a blender with some homemade smoothie
     
    CarolKing likes this.
  16. toked23

    toked23 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    114
    How do you guys think this will turn out?

    Happen to read this thread AFTER but read somewhere 220 for 20mins was good so I started there and then saw this and figured I better do a little more. But, very small amount (1g)and 1/2oz of ever clear , going to use the freezer method. Waiting one more hour for a total of 3 and I'm going to rind and throw in freezer for the next 2 days? Think it will actually work? And what about dosage? Drops etc? How many?
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2016
  17. macbill

    macbill Gregarious Misanthrope

    Messages:
    2,303
    Location:
    The Evergreen State
    I got a hankering to experiment, too. One of the things I hate about tincture, is the alcohol under the tongue. It burns.

    I'm going to decarb a gram of certified 80% concentrate (800 mg THC) in 3 grams of olive oil. Then I'll add some liquid sunflower lecithin, and combine with enough Food Grade Veg. Glycerin to fill a small dropper bottle. I'm going to guitar camp, and I'll administer dropper loads when needed. Hmm. It just might work........


    EDIT
    ====
    They don't combine well. Oil and water-like
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2016
    friedrich likes this.
  18. CarolKing

    CarolKing Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur

    The alcohol under the tongue will actually burn the skin under your tongue. Do it at your own risk. I made a sore under my tongue. It took a day or two to go away. There's no way to hold it there under your tongue for very long.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2016
  19. toked23

    toked23 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    114
    Hmmmmm, well then. What does on top of the tongue do etc?
     
  20. macbill

    macbill Gregarious Misanthrope

    Messages:
    2,303
    Location:
    The Evergreen State
    It takes an hour or so for THC to kick in if you swallow it. But if you place THC under the tongue, some of it absorbs quickly, much like heart patients who put nitro pills under their tongue for heart relief.
     
  21. toked23

    toked23 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    114
    Well, gave it a try last night with 2-3 drops and it actually worked, haha. Tingles a little under the tongue but that was about it. Was a very distinct med taste which I liked but hangs around for a minute, or 200, lol
     
  22. MyCollife

    MyCollife Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    113
    I put some lightly ABV into a jar with Everclear and I'm going to let it sit for one month and shake it every so often. Would it be helpful to evaporate some of the alcohol? I could do this via warm water bath or just let it sit in a large Pyrex dish with a fan next to it. Will it be easier to take when reduced through evaporation? I'm thinking it will be but maybe I'd be better off using it with coconut oil. I used about 7 grams of ABV to 6oz everclear. I wonder how strong it will be.

    I plan on using the freezer method next. I'll decarb the material (master kush, high grade) by Sous Vide - let it sit in the water bath at 203 for about an hour. I saw a lab report and it seems this method works for decarb.

    I just realized I probably could take the reduced alcohol tincture and infuse (heated) it into food grade glycerine to make it easier to take under the tongue? Thoughts? Would it just be better to infuse the herb into the glycerine.? Im thinking the reduced tincture/oil method might work. At the end of the month I'll report back.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2017
    E0x likes this.
  23. sickmanfraud

    sickmanfraud Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    769
    There are several problems with your "project" First, there is not enough time/temp of AVB for proper decarb.

    second, the ratios are all wrong. I use my Green Dragon tincture at a concentration level of 6 grams per ounce. Many use 3 grams per ounce or more.
     
  24. MyCollife

    MyCollife Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    113
    Thanks. Apparently I used way too much everclear for what I had on hand.

    There's another thread about the Sous Vide decarb. It's possible it didn't work when I tried it last year. I could have started with potent stuff to begin with. However, my canna coconut oil infusion was quite strong.


     
  25. sickmanfraud

    sickmanfraud Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    769
    Your canna Coconut oil will be much stronger if you decarb in the oven 240 F for 40 minutes.

    This has been verified by extensive testing.
     

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