Discontinued The Persei Vaporizer for herbs and concentrates.

[THC SCIENTIFIC]

Pleas do not try this, it's not gonna work, and you run the risk of ruining the top, and possible venting of the battery.

My universal adapter from PV arrived today, so without further ado, on to the comparison!

Thermovape on the left <--- ---> PV (delta9) on the right
(Notice the PV has more threads)

How they sit:
(The PV one actually has more of a "floating pin" than the TV adapter and can sit flush without damage)

How I keep my double top, ready for anything!

Notice the gap has moved to the top of the adapter:

But this adapter feels much more secure, no wobble at all like I had with the TV adapter, highly recommended!




Can you run the gauntlet??

 

[JoeKickass]

Pleas do not try this, it's not gonna work, and you run the risk of ruining the top, and possible venting of the battery.

Oh ya that's true, the evo already maxes out the top...

Good thing it was a 5 ohm just for the pic *whew* lord knows I've already broken enough tops...

 

[OF]

Pleas do not try this, it's not gonna work, and you run the risk of ruining the top, and possible venting of the battery.

OK, I can see how it might break the connector in the top if it's not protected from this (doesn't the 'ice pick' version of the top address this?), but why won't it work? It seems electrically right and mechanically OK (as long as it doesn't break something in the top).

And how can it possibly cause the battery to vent? Surely the short circuit protection in the top prevents any problems?

OF

 

[THC SCIENTIFIC]

OK, I can see how it might break the connector in the top if it's not protected from this (doesn't the 'ice pick' version of the top address this?), but why won't it work? It seems electrically right and mechanically OK (as long as it doesn't break something in the top).

And how can it possibly cause the battery to vent? Surely the short circuit protection in the top prevents any problems?

OF

not break the top, fry the electronics in their because of the amps needed to run that if it is a LV. Remember the Persei top is 5 amp limit, and the the LV runs at 6 amps if i am not mistaken.

 

[OF]

not break the top, fry the electronics in their because of the amps needed to run that if it is a LV. Remember the Persei top is 5 amp limit, and the the LV runs at 6 amps if i am not mistaken.

Thanks for the additional information, I was off on the wrong track for sure.

Actually is just under 5.5 Amp worst case, at least on paper. I've done it and the highest I ever measured was a bit under 4.5 what with normal drops and all. If they burn up driving LV Evolutions that's a little spooky. I'm sure it's under five amps for practical purposes, and the Persei should be well protected against over current due to short circuit concerns you'd think.

Does the new version of the top correct this? Is it an issue with the new V2?

TIA

OF

 

[THC SCIENTIFIC]

Thanks for the additional information, I was off on the wrong track for sure.

Actually is just under 5.5 Amp worst case, at least on paper. I've done it and the highest I ever measured was a bit under 4.5 what with normal drops and all. If they burn up driving LV Evolutions that's a little spooky. I'm sure it's under five amps for practical purposes, and the Persei should be well protected against over current due to short circuit concerns you'd think.

Does the new version of the top correct this? Is it an issue with the new V2?

TIA

OF

the new versions of the tops corrects some of the issues, because we did not anticipate a 6 amp cart. It has a short circuit protection but its not good enough anymore, so we are upgrading it and making it beefier. The amp limit is being installed on the hammer tops and any future production run including the durable screw connector.

I just dont think even the Persei can run a 6 amp cart along with a 5 ohm. Just to much strain on the 7.4v if it is a trustfire battery if it is one of the older Persei's.

 

[havealight101]

Are 2 1.5 ohm carts ok on the double top?
Edit: with aw imr 18650

 

[OF]

the new versions of the tops corrects some of the issues, because we did not anticipate a 6 amp cart. It has a short circuit protection but its not good enough anymore, so we are upgrading it and making it beefier. The amp limit is being installed on the hammer tops and any future production run including the durable screw connector.

I just dont think even the Persei can run a 6 amp cart along with a 5 ohm. Just to much strain on the 7.4v if it is a trustfire battery if it is one of the older Persei's.

Thanks for the additional information. For some reason I can't make the numbers make sense yet. I'd better come back and try later. As I see it, 7.4 Volt configurations pull a bit more current with two 3 Ohm carts and should be even tougher on the Persei. And I can't for the life of me understand the schedule for upgrades WRT this issue.

Tomorrow it may well make more sense to me. The safety issue around venting batteries caught my attention, we seem to have moved away from that....

Thanks again.

OF

 

[THC SCIENTIFIC]

Are 2 1.5 ohm carts ok on the double top?
Edit: with aw imr 18650

at 3.7v with imr batteries yes, with trustfire it should be at the limit.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

Last test...
Hockey gear and sludge hammer for a little hammer on hammer(top) action.

lemme try to scrounge a sledge hammer up and we can go Peter Gabriel on it

 

[havealight101]

lemme try to scrounge a sledge hammer up and we can go Peter Gabriel on it

Sounds like fun to me, but careful man, that thing will probably go flying, maybe a block of wood with a hole drilled for a base might help. Then again, maybe that's going to far, maybe not?...but I'd swing that hammer the minute the boss gives the go ahead.

G, just got my first scratch on my Persei!(early non serial coded), this paint is pretty resilient to have flawless this long. One exception to this is the switch paint wich is far from flawless. Doesn't bother me though, because it has performed up to every task I've asked of it, with out problems.

 

[THC SCIENTIFIC]

Sounds like fun to me, but careful man, that thing will probably go flying, maybe a block of wood with a hole drilled for a base might help. Then again, maybe that's going to far, maybe not?...but I'd swing that hammer the minute the boss gives the go ahead.

G, just got my first scratch on my Persei!(early non serial coded), this paint is pretty resilient to have flawless this long. One exception to this is the switch paint wich is far from flawless. Doesn't bother me though, because it has performed up to every task I've asked of it, with out problems.

You got one year free warranty,run it to the ground then send it in.

 

[JoeKickass]

I just dont think even the Persei can run a 6 amp cart along with a 5 ohm.

As I see it, 7.4 Volt configurations pull a bit more current with two 3 Ohm carts and should be even tougher on the Persei.

Actually you guys had it right the first time, I only have an LV evo so if I was thinking the guantlet could be hitting a 2.4 ohm cart while the evo warmed up, then hitting them both until the evo was cashed...

My evo lv reads 1.0 ohm cold but I think I remember 0.8 ohms working resistance so we'll call it 0.8 to be safe. 2.4 ohm cart is obviously 2.4 ohms... This gives us a combined resistance of 0.6 ohms.

5 amp max = ?? volts / 0.6 ohms
?? volts = 3 volts

Which is basically a dead battery, so I am going to have to agree, this setup simply can't work with a 5 amp limit...

the new versions of the tops corrects some of the issues, because we did not anticipate a 6 amp cart. It has a short circuit protection but its not good enough anymore, so we are upgrading it and making it beefier. The amp limit is being installed on the hammer tops and any future production run including the durable screw connector.

Any possibility of a 6a limit? Because using my equation the gauntlet could become reality at 3.6v or less with a 6 amp limit...

 

[OF]

Actually you guys had it right the first time, I only have an LV evo so if I was thinking the guantlet could be hitting a 2.4 ohm cart until the evo warmed up, then hitting them both until the evo was cashed...

My evo lv reads 1.0 ohm cold but I think I remember 0.8 ohms working resistance so we'll call it 0.8 to be safe. 2.4 ohm cart is obviously 2.4 ohms... This gives us a combined resistance of 0.6 ohms.

5 amp max = ?? volts / 0.6 ohms
?? volts = 3 volts

Which is basically a dead battery, so I am going to have to agree, this setup simply can't work with a 5 amp limit...

Swell. I went to bed last night frustrated because I couldn't make sense of the numbers, and now this which is making even less sense to my fuzzy head.....

At one point I did some under load readings of V1, V2 and the TV Ultra supplies with 2.4 and 1.5 loads. I can see it's time to expand that with Evolution level loads and Persei....but the new Persei will no doubt change that???

As to making these numbers work, I sure can't. Probably not understanding. I can't make that .8 number work no matter what I do. Two 2.4 Ohm carts are 1.2 Ohms in parallel. One with an Evolution make .6 but that configuration makes no sense to me right now. The rest is making even less sense right now, fresh reading later seems in order.

And overall we have the bit at the end, "so I am going to have to agree, this setup simply can't work with a 5 amp limit...". That's not what I'd intended to say, in fact quite the opposite. It does work. I've done it. Until G said not to do it (for what I incorrectly assumed were mechanical reasons since I saw no electrical reason at the time....). I don't think he said it can't work (again, it seems to?) but rather you shouldn't??

You've got to remember, I think, that unless there's a carefully calibrated electronic cut off looking to shut down the show at 5.01 Amps or something, it's a soft limit at best and there's going to be some differences unit to unit. On both sides. As it stands, charged batteries could I think make an approved configuration of Persei (using two carts?) with freshly charged batteries drawing more current than an average Evolution with normally charged batteries? I think some real numbers, not calculations, might help here. Unfortunately due to the shortage of adapters my test rig has been stripped for parts some time ago. Now I have a few more, maybe time to build another....

OF

OF

 

[JoeKickass]

I pulled the 0.8 ohms out of my ass, isn't that close to the lowest measured resistance of the lv evo?


Yeah I remember a long time ago I (rather foolhardily) did a double 2.4 ohm test at 8.4v and measured 6-7+ amps so I know the top can take it in bursts, but if G says 5 amps I'll do my darnedest to keep it under. He is the guy who replaces them after all...

 

[OF]

if G says 5 amps I'll do my darnedest to keep it under. He is the guy who replaces them after all...

That I think is the core of the issue, follow the maker's instructions. I think we're allowed to question that, I'm not sure he's required to respond, but the final word is his. If he says 'don't use this on Sunday' you've agreed to do that when you buy it; IMO you don't get a new one if it breaks on Sunday? Silly as that example is.

OF

 

[THC SCIENTIFIC]

That I think is the core of the issue, follow the maker's instructions. I think we're allowed to question that, I'm not sure he's required to respond, but the final word is his. If he says 'don't use this on Sunday' you've agreed to do that when you buy it; IMO you don't get a new one if it breaks on Sunday? Silly as that example is.

OF

The Persei currently has not amp limit we building it into the next phase and replacement parts.

The button is the issue guys, it is rated at 5amps. That's where my 5 amp limit comes from.
I'm sure it can handle very short bursts but it's not going to stay working for ever either.

 

[OF]

The Persei currently has not amp limit we building it into the next phase and replacement parts.

The button is the issue guys, it is rated at 5amps. That's where my 5 amp limit comes from.
I'm sure it can handle very short bursts but it's not going to stay working for ever either.

Excellent information, brings it all together then. Thanks.

So what's in play here is an issue shared by some of the simpler battery box and switch supplies then. Contact ratings on the switch.....

In general, there are two failure modes. Internal resistance causing heating by Ohm's Law (voltage drop across the on switch times Amps gives Watts heating it). Time is a factor here as is ambient temperature when you start the run. In general, heating improves the contact, lowering the resistance and therefore voltage and power 'lost' in the switch. This is 'negative feedback' and tends to correct the problem for us.

OTOH, there's also the 'current on break' issue. As you open the contacts there's likely to be an arc. This is why switches have higher AC ratings than DC generally, the 'stop, then go the other way 120 times a second part automatically stops that arc for us. Otherwise it's a positive feedback deal and needs rapid contact opening (aided by rapid heat drop in fact) to break the arc. Given high enough levels (like in the circuit breakers in power plants and switch yards) this necessary action comes from dumping compressed air or even explosives. In our case, repeated breaking contact (stopping the heat) causes tiny bits of damage to the contact surface that accumulates and either causes a sudden rise in contact resistance and immediate failure or welds the contacts for a different sort of problem.

If the man who made the switch says five amps, and the guy that sells it to you says five amps, the ice is thin for anyone going past that IMO. For now, the best official advice for those guys that want to run Evolutions on their Persei might be 'get the TV supply intended for it'?

Thanks again, knowledge is good...provided it's correct enough to be useful...and clear enough to understand?

OF

 

[havealight101]

You got one year free warranty,run it to the ground then send it in.

That's sweet, but I don't think ill use a warranty for paint, it definitely makes it have a little more character. I was talking more in amazement that the finish has lasted this long, as opposed to disappointment of a petty scratch.
Still anxiously awaiting the future releases, but I understand perfection takes time(and lots of fun testing), ill wait for that. Keep it up man.

Ohh BTW, I've thought of another addition to the mouth piece(easy one, don't hate me), it would kind of self clean it... Expect a PM after this old man takes a short nap. If you already thought of this one, ill give ya $10 or just throw a few extensive reviews out on that there intro-web.

 

[THC SCIENTIFIC]

That's sweet, but I don't think ill use a warranty for paint, it definitely makes it have a little more character. I was talking more in amazement that the finish has lasted this long, as opposed to disappointment of a petty scratch.
Still anxiously awaiting the future releases, but I understand perfection takes time(and lots of fun testing), ill wait for that. Keep it up man.

Ohh BTW, I've thought of another addition to the mouth piece(easy one, don't hate me), it would kind of self clean it... Expect a PM after this old man takes a short nap. If you already thought of this one, ill give ya $10 or just throw a few extensive reviews out on that there intro-web.

Thats a long nap.

 

[havealight101]

Thats a long nap.

I'm up, im up, I'm typing...
Edit: post nap thought= I probably owe ya $10...

 

[Robaba89]

So... odd thing..
One of my first five ohm carts(no label print) must have lost something. I can see all the way through the cart.
It's still working.. and not leaking yet... It's airflow is actually fantastic haha. Dunno if I'll fill it a fifth time..

But the main reason for this post is to make sure I'm not in danger of exposing something that shouldn't be exposed to heat... to heat... lol.

 

[JoeKickass]

So... odd thing..
One of my first five ohm carts(no label print) must have lost something. I can see all the way through the cart.
It's still working.. and not leaking yet... It's airflow is actually fantastic haha. Dunno if I'll fill it a fifth time..

But the main reason for this post is to make sure I'm not in danger of exposing something that shouldn't be exposed to heat... to heat... lol.

Wow that's an odd one for sure...

Are you sure it's 5 ohm? (The unprinted ones are all 2.4...)

But if you primed it on 7.4 it probably isn't 2.4ohm...

 

[Robaba89]

Trust me, it's a 5ohm. I've ran it through 3+G of oil on 7.4, and had it on double top with another printed 5ohm and they were equal

The 2 un-marked 5ohms came with my unit from PV back at release.. along with the blue, fucked up, long 3.7v. Probably a limited production cart lol.

 

[JoeKickass]

Ok well that's one question answered...

But you can see all the way through? I assume working normally means thick clouds?

So the main heater must be there somewhere, maybe it got bent to the side somehow?