The Nomad From Morwood

Copacetic

Somewhere North of The Wall
How about a sliding cover/exchanger?
Or one that scythes like scissors?
Can pipes be tubular? with a sliding tubular cover/exchanger?:
blomus-teastick-modern-tea-infuser-2.jpg


Slide vape open
Load herb into bowl
Heat exchanger/cover
Close vape
Draw

When finished:
Slide open vape
Dump AVB
Refill

Wood, metal, glass.

Maybe a wooden tube for transport?

EDIT:
The heat exchanger could be 2 thin tubes with a narrow gap occupied by a helical air guide/path.
Maybe George would licence the Dynavap clicking mechanism?
 

Dan Morrison

Well-Known Member
Manufacturer
@Copacetic , Slinding things are hard to get right, especially when one half of that mechanism has to be heated. And for this..I'd like something more rectangular..less like the Okin, more like a pipe.

Also, trying to be careful not to get too close to the look of the vapcap. Not interested in any licensing either.

But keep the ideas comin! :)

Another advantage of the concept No. 3, could be the ability to stick a dab onto a porous plate in the bowl, then directly contact it with the hot exchanger when you close the lid down.. so you get the conductive heat of direct contact for concentrates..but then when you set the bowl up with loose leaf, your material sits a millimeter or two lower, not coming into contact with the exchanger, so you have more of a convection heat.
 

Shit Snacks

Milaana. Lana. LANA. LANAAAA! (TM2/TP80/BAK/FW9)
Lotus meets Firefly, I definitely dig that design (I can see why you kept that pipe around!) only concern is heating with a torch randomly? Like why I went with VapCap to try surface heating with its clicks and never tried a Lotus or VapMan with the larger learning curve (or even better imo, direct torch heat ala Daisy/Lily since feedback is instant). Maybe we can think of a sensory system here for greater ease of use off the bat?
 

Dan Morrison

Well-Known Member
Manufacturer
@Shit Snacks , Good point, I've been thinking on that as well.. It definitely seems like the click of the vapcap helps people get started very easily.. but I have also seen people say that it's not necessary once you have the technique down.

I was thinking that the finger actuated hinge, when closed, would be attracted to a magnet placed in the butt end of the vape body..jesus thats hard to articulte, haha.

When the lid is closed, the finger button, made of steel, would be stuck to the magnet.. The fulcrum position could plced just right..so that the hinge remains open on its own..but snaps shut when the pressure of a bimetallic strip, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bimetallic_strip , bends from the heat and activates the binge mechanism.

So you'd basically heat the hinge until the lid snaps shut on its own, like a mouse trap.

You could have one end of the bimetallic strip be on an adjustable anchor..so you can adjust the amount of bend, and therefor the temperature required, to actuate the lid. Now you'd have a reliable adjustable heating point for consistent sessions.

Dang, I like that idea, haha.
 
I can pull it out, load it, spark it, dump it, toss it, all under 20 seconds.

There is something about that convenience.
Have you had the chance to use any of the Triihouse vapes? The heating method is very crude, given the idea behind its "heat exchanger" (if you can truly call it one, heat retarder maybe?) is to dumb down the torches heat by sheer distance or making a curve in the airway. At any rate its very akin to pipe smoking, given the near entirely instant vapor with nothing to warm up. Funny your favorite pipes more or less a block of wood, the lily is too! I've always dreamt of a more stylized offering in the triihouse vein. The heating method is unpatented, extremely simple, ridiculously fast and provides intense vapor. I believe you could likely utilize a somewhat similar method and make it your own. The powers already there, fires a hell of a heat source.
I've been thinking of a design with an open bowl, just like a pipe. And a bowl cover on a hinge. The bowl cover "disc" would be made of steel (or other metal) to hold a good amount of heat. With tiny holes through the disc in which to inhale the hot air through. It may be possible to make this disc in two parts, like a sandwich, and engrave a spiral airpath through the disc to increase the heat exchange efficiency.

What you are describing here sounds like a Lotus+Supreme .. and that's exciting. I would love a compromise between the two, the supremes #1 draw is also its major hindrance. All that glorious heat retention takes a lot of heating, this design looks like it would reap some of the benefits without taking so long.

Beautiful pipe BTW, if you went with a cap type system you could make small runs of pipe/bodies for those of us interested in your other wares but do not combust. I do like your swinging design in #3, but love modularity as well (maybe threaded to the hinge assembly? Why not both? Easy WPA options this route.).

Something else I want to throw out there is a wooden bowl, woods an excellent insulator. Ive noticed with the lily you can string bowls one after another and the actual chamber never gets warm, dare I say this leads to the most pure convection on the market? Just an observation.

You could have one end of the bimetallic strip be on an adjustable anchor..so you can adjust the amount of bend, and therefor the temperature required, to actuate the lid. Now you'd have a reliable adjustable heating point for consistent sessions.

Like with the vapcap this would only serve its function in indirect conduction heating. Temp control is ridiculously hard to account for in convection units due to everyone's different draw styles, the only convection units I'm aware of having even mildly accurately temp controls are forced air units. I'm also sure George has his use of (what I'm sure is ) bi-metallic strips patented for this specific use considering that's the entirety of his "secret sauce" per se.

Like why I went with VapCap to try surface heating with its clicks and never tried a Lotus or VapMan with the larger learning curve (or even better imo, direct torch heat ala Daisy/Lily since feedback is instant). Maybe we can think o a sensory system here for greater ease of use off the bat?

If you can tame lily you can use the rest. The feedback is the same, albeit slightly delayed to warm up the heat exchangers.

I think an indication system in this instance is more unnecessary nonsense and more stuff to break. How many of you kept your training wheels on after you gained the ability to ride a 2 wheeler?
Is it too soon to say it cause I am really feeling the IT HAS TO BE THAT ONE on concept number 3!
latest
 

Dan Morrison

Well-Known Member
Manufacturer
@stickstones , I have definitely looked into them! Thanks. :)

@nondarb, It would definitely be a wooden bowl. African blackwood. The bowl and body would be the same solid piece.

And, much like Triihouse vapes, I used to make a lot of pipes with bowl lids. The bowl lids would always have a little hole in the top. They were pipes, but if you wanted to you could use the heat from a flame and draw that hot air through the bowl lid for vaporization. It was basic and crude, and I always considered them smoking pipes first and foremost... but it just dawns on me now that I should revive that idea.

Here is one such pipe.

Actually, one of the first pipes I ever made had this design, that was more than 11 years ago.

Good point about the inhalation rate and difficulty in nailing down an exact temperature in a convection unit. But if the lid were to snap closed via the movement of a bimetallic strip, it would at least give you a rough estimate that you've reached a predetermined temperature. Also, I'm not sure what tech makes that click-noise, but you're probably right about it being a bimetallic material of some sort. Either way, I can't find any of his patents (where as the VG patent is easy to find), and I feel like the design would be different enough as to not infringe. But it needs further investigation.

But like you concluded, you're probably right about this design not needing any sort of indication system. I get the sense that it's more of a "feel" thing. And perhaps the steeper learning curve is rewarded with more freedom and control in the long run. I like your training wheels analogy, really puts it into perspective, ahha.
 

Shit Snacks

Milaana. Lana. LANA. LANAAAA! (TM2/TP80/BAK/FW9)
If you can tame lily you can use the rest. The feedback is the same, albeit slightly delayed to warm up the heat exchangers.

I think an indication system in this instance is more unnecessary nonsense and more stuff to break. How many of you kept your training wheels on after you gained the ability to ride a 2 wheeler?

That's my point though, there is no feedback for torching, and I am just shitty with a torch like that. I find Daisy and Lily easier than a pipe even because you just need to aim the flame and pull it in with your breath. Without a click or latching, there is no way to sense how long to heat until you draw after its too late. Another thing that I personally have trouble with is heating the plate itself, even on a VapCap there is a lot more room for error in how one holds the flame where, here a flat plate makes it easier maybe and I guess that's like a Lotus, either way I haven't tried it can't say... Though personally I do think I could use some actual bike training wheels again... I almost bought a VapMan when the heating station was a thing for this reason (but that was very pricey and made it a desktop) and then backed out

Ah yeah that pipe is great, the ability to use more direct heat like Triihouse would be great and easier to master imo, something you could even pass around, or that snap shut thing could work too, retain heat well also for a pass session like a pipe would be ideal... The VapCap can't retain it that long, but you could reach out to George maybe to check things out? This is definitely way different
 

The Stranger

Account Closed
I've definitely come to the conclusion that I'm not smart enough to participate in the actual engineering of this device. :shrug:

But the more y'all talk about butane vapes - and I've spent all morning researching the different butane vapes instead of working- the more I'm excited to try one and especially own one that's built as beautifully as the Okin. (Can't wait for the next batch of emails for one goes out :brow:)
 

phattpiggie

Well-Known Member
Accessory Maker
I am all for the cartridge loading I feel that a revolver style wastes valuable space.
I like my new butane device, a lot, but can see that battery power is much easier to please every one with. Electricity is more readily available than gas.
Series batteries gives a much better spread of power and probably a slightly better run time than one.
If it is to be battery then Box Mod chips and PWM's are readily available and take up a relatively small space. A reg'd device means less learning curve and makes a device usable by all. MMJ users may shy away from something involving a heating technique. I have a friend who has little use of his fingers and thumbs he would struggle for sure.
Tiny chip in here
3NvYwdgm.jpg

Thought you may enjoy the battery sleeves Dan.
Mi2N5Lym.jpg

And some box mod coil porn
LSEoMPvm.jpg
LmjWmPOm.jpg

You could smog out a whole city with this one
EJIqbfum.jpg

And I saw, but forgot to save, another one. Cannot find it again and it's now doing my head in as to where I saw it. The coil wasn't a coil. It still had cotton in the middle like a dripper set up but reminded me of a shaver foil/screen. Same kind of thin metal cut in a similar way.
UdD9xmDm.jpg
kBlJ3Gmm.jpg
 

Farid

Well-Known Member
I came up with a design for a butane vaporizer that I'd love to share with you. I don't know if this is too similar to the vapman, as I've never handled one... The heat exchanger is more or less a metal cone nested inside another metal cone, nested inside a metal funnel shape, with the bud in the bottom part of the funnel. The first cone has a hole in the bottom , and the middle cone has holes around the edge of the rim. The heat exchanger would fit inside a bulldog style pipe, and where the dashed lines are in my picture, there would be magnets, allowing you to remove the heat exchanger and load a bowl. Here's a basic drawing I did in paint. I'm no artist. The green stars represent the load.

https://i.imgur.com/hjb88Kj.png
 
That's my point though, there is no feedback for torching, and I am just shitty with a torch like that. I find Daisy and Lily easier than a pipe even because you just need to aim the flame and pull it in with your breath. Without a click or latching, there is no way to sense how long to heat until you draw after its too late. Another thing that I personally have trouble with is heating the plate itself, even on a VapCap there is a lot more room for error in how one holds the flame where, here a flat plate makes it easier maybe and I guess that's like a Lotus, either way I haven't tried it can't say... Though personally I do think I could use some actual bike training wheels again... I almost bought a VapMan when the heating station was a thing for this reason (but that was very pricey and made it a desktop) and then backed out

If you can taste or perceive heat in your mouth you have feedback, if its through glass its pretty easy to gauge by vapor. You know that magic depth you aim your torch in on the lily? There's a very similar depth to the lotus, VG and other comparable vapes. Its literally 2-3 seconds hesitance and you're in the same boat. As someone who's used all the above vapes (daisy aside), I can say without speculation... Its the same method and feel. The Vapman stations out again if you still have any interest in the unit, I highly reccomend the vapman as a standalone anyways. I'm certain it may be magic.
Good point about the inhalation rate and difficulty in nailing down an exact temperature in a convection unit. But if the lid were to snap closed via the movement of a bimetallic strip, it would at least give you a rough estimate that you've reached a predetermined temperature. Also, I'm not sure what tech makes that click-noise, but you're probably right about it being a bimetallic material of some sort. Either way, I can't find any of his patents (where as the VG patent is easy to find), and I feel like the design would be different enough as to not infringe. But it needs further investigation.

Id like to see a similar design (and some of your other wild ideas) come to fruition in a Rube Goldberg kind of way, but don't see myself using them personally. If you guys want a regulated vape with temp controls I suggest taking a step back and reconsidering batteries! I consider a butane vape like a hopped up race car, manual transmission, no power steering, stripped down lean and mean. I had a racecar bed as a kid.
618e3f43637a64464f3b7a3996897ea9130783cf934889bdf69cb17530f8592b.jpg


These traits don't necessarily mean not user friendly. With the proper air inlets and a suggested manner of use it wouldnt be difficult, in fact with the triihouse tech you are hard pressed to combust unless you start blocking air holes, overfill it, get greedy or just bury the torch up. If you follow the instructions you simply don't combust. With power comes responsibility.
Series batteries gives a much better spread of power and probably a slightly better run time than one.
3NvYwdgm.jpg

Thought you may enjoy the battery sleeves Dan.
Mi2N5Lym.jpg

And some box mod coil porn
LSEoMPvm.jpg
LmjWmPOm.jpg

You could smog out a whole city with this one
EJIqbfum.jpg

And I saw, but forgot to save, another one. Cannot find it again and it's now doing my head in as to where I saw it. The coil wasn't a coil. It still had cotton in the middle like a dripper set up but reminded me of a shaver foil/screen. Same kind of thin metal cut in a similar way.
UdD9xmDm.jpg
kBlJ3Gmm.jpg

If you haven't been in the DIY section in a while I suggest going. Check out the Bulli and The Project threads in particular.

MMJ users may shy away from something involving a heating technique. I have a friend who has little use of his fingers and thumbs he would struggle for sure.

Maybe disabled mmj users, certainly not the 90%+/- of us who came up using pipes. I'd tell your friend to stick to regulated electric portables honestly.

But the more y'all talk about butane vapes - and I've spent all morning researching the different butane vapes instead of working- the more I'm excited to bed one and especially own one that's built as beautifully as the Okin.
I fell into a rabbithole of my own checking out Dan's website after he linked one of his earlier pipes. The prospect is certainly exciting. The okin's neat but his pipes make.... smoking seem cool! I started to get some wild ideas just browsing.. Check out Dead-Eye in the archives.
 
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Stu

Maconheiro
Staff member
I came up with a design for a butane vaporizer that I'd love to share with you. I don't know if this is too similar to the vapman, as I've never handled one... The heat exchanger is more or less a metal cone nested inside another metal cone, nested inside a metal funnel shape, with the bud in the bottom part of the funnel. The first cone has a hole in the bottom , and the middle cone has holes around the edge of the rim. The heat exchanger would fit inside a bulldog style pipe, and where the dashed lines are in my picture, there would be magnets, allowing you to remove the heat exchanger and load a bowl. Here's a basic drawing I did in paint. I'm no artist. The green stars represent the load.

https://i.imgur.com/hjb88Kj.png
hjb88Kj.png


I really like the design, @Farid. Seems brilliant in it's simplicity. You should pursue it further.:nod:

Regarding batteries, I think butane is a better choice. Way more energy, fewer points of failure, and more campfire-friendly. ;)

:peace:
 

Dan Morrison

Well-Known Member
Manufacturer
@nondarb and @Shit Snacks , I think you're both on the same page, no?

To sum it up. "direct draw" vapes like Triihouse designs give you instant feedback, making heat control easier. Heating up a heat sink doesn't give you any feedback until you take a draw. But, in time, I would suspect that you would get the hang of it.. for example.. you'd just know that 6 seconds of heat time would give you the right temp.

Also, with the hinged design in concept No. 3, you could ease the heat sink disc down onto the bowl, to sort of feel it out for the right temp, perhaps. It would be better if there was a heat proof "bellows" that connected the chamber and heat sink disc... like an oldschool camera:

C685.JPG


And I love the analogy between a butane vape and a muscle car!

@Farid , Very neat. I agree with Stu, make it a reality! Just be careful with those magnets, magnets don't like heat.

@phattpiggie , I've seen those battery wraps before, totally love them! Always love to see your input, I am amazed at the coil designs those e-cig folk get into.. so mesmerizing!!
 

shark sandwich

"shit sandwich"
Accessory Maker
I've used butane vapes for close to a decade, and while they have been great, I have been disappointed by their ability to indicate temperature since the start.

I think the ideal indicator would be small, passive, and analog- meaning it would have a dynamic response/indication range.

I've worked out a possible solution, which might work for your needs:

A small thermal well would be installed, which would extend from the exterior of the device, to the interior of the heat exchanger. A glass capsule containing Iodine would be set into the thermal well, and perhaps covered with a protector which would allow for viewing. Iodine has a phase change just around the temperatures needed, and response could be fine tuned by changing the shape or position of the thermal well.

Here's a video of Iodine changing phases:

 

Copacetic

Somewhere North of The Wall
That's kinda cool, and presumanly could be made to work with any heat source too.
I like the avoidance of electronics.
Seems like it could work well with various different aesthetic approaches too.

A battery or flame vape could produce enough light to illuminate the process in the dark too.
A visual indicator would be very convenient for many too.
 

The Stranger

Account Closed
If you can taste or perceive heat in your mouth you have feedback, if its through glass its pretty easy to gauge by vapor. You know that magic depth you aim your torch in on the lily? There's a very similar depth to the lotus, VG and other comparable vapes. Its literally 2-3 seconds hesitance and you're in the same boat. As someone who's used all the above vapes (daisy aside), I can say without speculation... Its the same method and feel. The Vapman stations out again if you still have any interest in the unit, I highly reccomend the vapman as a standalone anyways. I'm certain it may be magic.


Id like to see a similar design (and some of your other wild ideas) come to fruition in a Rube Goldberg kind of way, but don't see myself using them personally. If you guys want a regulated vape with temp controls I suggest taking a step back and reconsidering batteries! I consider a butane vape like a hopped up race car, manual transmission, no power steering, stripped down lean and mean. I had a racecar bed as a kid.
618e3f43637a64464f3b7a3996897ea9130783cf934889bdf69cb17530f8592b.jpg


These traits don't necessarily mean not user friendly. With the proper air inlets and a suggested manner of use it wouldnt be difficult, in fact with the triihouse tech you are hard pressed to combust unless you start blocking air holes, overfill it, get greedy or just bury the torch up. If you follow the instructions you simply don't combust. With power comes responsibility.


If you haven't been in the DIY section in a while I suggest going. Check out the Bulli and The Project threads in particular.



Maybe disabled mmj users, certainly not the 90%+/- of us who came up using pipes. I'd tell your friend to stick to regulated electric portables honestly.


I fell into a rabbithole of my own checking out Dan's website after he linked one of his earlier pipes. The prospect is certainly exciting. The okin's neat but his pipes make.... smoking seem cool! I started to get some wild ideas just browsing.. Check out Dead-Eye in the archives.
I know what you mean, his work is reidiculously good. I would gladly combust out of one of those pipes, if only I could afford one ha.
I wouldn't even be able to choose. Pipe of Archimedes, Pipe of the Delirious Fly, Pipe for the E.L.M..the list goes on. :love: Good thing they aren't even available or else I'd be in trouble.

Such amazing work @Dan Morrison
I wonder though, what's the glass part for on Pipe of the Clouded Nautilus, just looks or a function?

@shark sandwich What a slick ass idea!!

The Vapman stations out again if you still have any interest in the unit, I highly reccomend the vapman as a standalone anyways. I'm certain it may be magic.
What do you mean the Vapman stations out? So you would no doubt recommend the Vapman to Vapcap or Lotus. Most people say Lotus for flavor and Vapman for stealth. I don't need stealth, I have the mflb for that. But for someone who just wants to try a butane vape..?
 
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Haakkon

Well-Known Member
It's been a while since I've been on the boards but it's great to catch up on this thread! I love your work as always Dan.

I had a similar idea I was working on a bit ago. I posted about it in this thread: http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/did-someone-say-diy.17086/ There's some other pictures in the thread like the testing of a heater design, 3d printed prototypes and CAD prototypes.

Here's a shot of one of the first mock ups:
6XLKB3k.png


Here's the start of one of the later cad models:
7OAnXaQ.png


These are just images from the CAD work, I also have a bunch of 3D printed prototypes lying around but I'm too lazy to take a picture right now. :lol:

The body was going to be cnc'd out of a solid piece of aluminium while the light blue battery door was going to be a bent piece of 1/16" steel which would attach via magnets.

I was planning on running on one 18650. http://www.orbtronic.com/protected-3400mah-18650-li-ion-battery-panasonic-ncr18650B-orbtronic These bad boys can output 10A from the regulated circuit, giving you protection which is definitely needed on these batteries. The amount of power is enough to do serious damage. The disadvantage when running only 3.7v is the electronics are a lot harder to design. However I did plan a different heater design which could let me run two 18650s in series if necessary. Though these days there are a lot of small quadcopters and other R/C toys that revolve around 3.7v lithium batteries for power so there's probably some good power mosfets that can run on 3.7v out there.

I tried designing the heater around using a cartridge heater initially. You can see a video of me testing one at 12V ~30 watts in that thread I linked above. It worked pretty well but finding cartridge heaters with low enough resistance run on 3.7v with 30+ watts was basically impossible without getting them custom made. I've spent a lot of time prototyping heaters but I still haven't been in love with anything yet. I briefly toyed with an induction heater design for a desktop when I got sidetracked. Picture a log vape but the glass tube would have the heating element in it which was powered by induction. You put the glass tube in the center of vape for ~30 seconds then pull it out and draw on it. It would work for portable too, but the circuit design was going to prove too challenging with the lack of equipment I have access to right now. It could look like that 3 battery holder Dan linked above except one of the 3 batteries would be where the glass goes to charge.

Lately I've been working on a heater design a lot more similar to the firefly with open an open air coil similar to a hair dryer or heat gun. The thoughts for my next iteration involve a coil or nitinol wire cast inside ceramic to create something similar to the cartridge heater but in the shape I want for my air path. I'm excited to keep trying new ideas as I get them!

Not sure if any of the ramblings of my experiences will be of use to you but I love talking about this stuff.
 
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