The Magic-Flight Box

[2Supra4U]

What's so bad about the charger you get with the mflb anyways ? I don't know anything about this, as you can tell.

nothing really.....its just that it takes liek 8 or 9 hours to charge

so unless you have a bunch of batteries charged and ready, you might get caught with dead ones charging when you wanna use your mflb

How long do these other ones, like the MAHA 204FA take to charge ?
I just ordered the mflb & 4 of these ( Powerex 2700 mAh )

you'd have to check the specs on the charger i couldnt tell you sorry

 

[pakalolo]

nothing really.....its just that it takes liek 8 or 9 hours to charge

This is not correct. The current charger shipped with the LB takes about 2-4 hours depending on the state of the batteries.

You don't need a bunch of charged batteries unless you're doing a bunch of trenches. I get about two trenches out of a battery and one trench is usually enough to last an evening. I often stretch a trench out over two days but my wife and I switch to the Extreme most evenings.

Anyone with a phobia about getting caught without a charged battery can always get a fast charger and take the shorter battery life penalty--but you will have a charged battery in 15 minutes.

How long do these other ones, like the MAHA 204FA take to charge ?

I think you mean the 204W, which can charge 2 AAs in about an hour, or 4 in two hours. It's a good charger because it is intelligent and has a conditioning cycle. That charging time is about as fast as you can go without starting to shorten battery life significantly. If, as I mentioned before, you need a really fast charge then get an Energizer 15-minute charger--but you will be killing your batteries.

The batteries shipped with your LB are Imedions, which are LSD batteries that do not like fast charging. The Powerex batteries are HSD (which means they don't suffer as much from fast charging) but in my opinion, are the best for the LB. I never fast-charge mine, by the way.

There's a lot of great information about batteries and chargers in the link in my sig.

 

[slurpeejerky711]

the amount of herb in your trench will determine how long your batteries will last you, when i first got my mflb, i was only putting a small, thin layer of bud barely covering the botom completely and you could get probably 2 or 3 trenches out of one freshly charged battery, but when i started using it more, and loading 1/3 or closer to 1/2 of the trench full, then i would prefer to use 2 fresh batteries and only use each battery for 2 or 3 hits each

 

[chucku]

The 204W and the 204FA are nearly the same charger except for the international capabilities of the 204W. The 204W is also faster. The 204FA is meant strictly for American style AC. The 204FFA does cost about 20% less.

 

[max]

The 204W and the 204FA are nearly the same charger except for the international capabilities of the 204W. The 204W is also faster. The 204FA is meant strictly for American style AC. The 204FFA does cost about 20% less.

There are other differences between these two as well, including the type of charging system used, charging time, current, battery type supported, battery rescue function, etc.
http://www.thomasdistributing.com/mh-compare-maha-nimh-aa-aaa-battery-chargers.htm

 

[bussinrounds]

I just ordered the MAHA 204FA. It was 30$ with the shipping included. Thanks for the link chucku. Good choice ?

 

[pakalolo]

the amount of herb in your trench will determine how long your batteries will last you, when i first got my mflb, i was only putting a small, thin layer of bud barely covering the botom completely and you could get probably 2 or 3 trenches out of one freshly charged battery, but when i started using it more, and loading 1/3 or closer to 1/2 of the trench full, then i would prefer to use 2 fresh batteries and only use each battery for 2 or 3 hits each

True that the size of the load matters. Each hit uses the same energy to heat up the screen regardless of how much is loaded, which is why magicflight recommends filling the trench. I tend to load it almost to the shoulder.

Taking only 2 or 3 of hits per battery is a bit wasteful in my opinion. NiMH battery life is measured in charge cycles and doing that means you won't get the full capability from the battery. The discharge curve for NiMH batteries shows that after an initial dip, the output remains at the same level until the battery is nearly depleted, then there is a sharp dropoff. In other words, you might as well keep hitting that battery until you see the light start to dim.

chucku and max: When I searched the Maha site for a 204FA I found nothing, but clearly I should have done a Google search because that turns up a variety of 204-type chargers. I wonder why Maha doesn't list them all on their site, especially if they have differences such as you mention.

Edited because I can't type.

 

[Stu]

Taking only 2 or 3 of hits per battery is a bit wasteful in my opinion. NiMH battery life is measured in charge cycles and doing that means you won't get the full capability from the battery. The discharge curve for NiMH batteries shows that after an initial dip, the output remains at the same level until the battery is nearly depleted, then there is a sharp dropoff. In other words, you might as well keep hitting that battery until you see the light start to dim.

I had often wondered about the discharge curve for NiMH batteries. I was under the (false) assumption that after a trench or so, the battery would not be discharging at a high enough rate, and therefore I would swipe a new battery for each new trench. I am going to try using the same battery until the light dims (I've never gotten to the point where I've seen the light dim noticably) and see how many trenches I can get from a single battery.

 

[Vicki]

Taking only 2 or 3 of hits per battery is a bit wasteful in my opinion. NiMH battery life is measured in charge cycles and doing that means you won't get the full capability from the battery. The discharge curve for NiMH batteries shows that after an initial dip, the output remains at the same level until the battery is nearly depleted, then there is a sharp dropoff. In other words, you might as well keep hitting that battery until you see the light start to dim.

I had often wondered about the discharge curve for NiMH batteries.

What about batteries that don't have a memory affect? I happen to have some of those, and I've never let the battery drain dead.

 

[Rash]

I think he meant the discharge curve when you are using the battery.

 

[Stu]

Thanks for the chart, Rash. Although I'm clueless to how many AmpHrs are typically used, and I have no clue as to how many volts (minimum) are required to operate the box, I can see by the shape of the graph that I'm probably changing batteries too soon as I've never seen that steep dropoff that happens at 1.80 AmpHrs.

 

[max]

When I searched the Maha site for a 204FA I found nothing, but clearly I should have done a Google search because that turns up a variety of 204-type chargers. I wonder why Maha doesn't list them all on their site, especially if they have differences such as you mention.

The Thomas Dist. site is kind of a mess when it comes to links, with incomplete/out of date pages showing up sometimes. That comparison page I linked only shows up as a link when you look at the low priced 204GT model. The best I can tell the 204F and FA are more alike than they are different, but we may be dealing with info/specs that are out of date, incorrect, etc. from Thomas and/or MAHA. It may also be the case that Thomas has a particular model charger made just for them by MAHA. The specs are slightly different (F vs. FA) but the features aren't, and with only an 'A' difference in the model #, I'd say these two are pretty much the same. I've been using a 204F for years and have been very happy with it.

I had often wondered about the discharge curve for NiMH batteries. I was under the (false) assumption that after a trench or so, the battery would not be discharging at a high enough rate, and therefore I would swipe a new battery for each new trench. I am going to try using the same battery until the light dims (I've never gotten to the point where I've seen the light dim noticably) and see how many trenches I can get from a single battery.

If you switch batteries before one is drained, you can always hit the discharge button on the charger (assuming it has one) when you charge it. That way it gets discharged completely before recharging.

 

[pakalolo]

What about batteries that don't have a memory affect? I happen to have some of those, and I've never let the battery drain dead.

NiMH batteries don't really have a memory effect. There is a far less noticeable effect called voltage depletion, but it can be offset by completely discharging the battery once in a while. That's why high-end chargers have a re-conditioning cycle. So Vicki, let those suckers go dead. What I suggest is that you put aside a battery once the light starts to dim, then drain the battery on an empty trench, which helps keep it clean. You don't need to do this every time, of course.

I should clarify that this shortening of battery life with fast and/or frequent charging isn't easily quantified. In the long run, the difference it makes might not be that noticeable unless you stick to 15 minute charges.

 

[Vicki]

What about batteries that don't have a memory affect? I happen to have some of those, and I've never let the battery drain dead.

NiMH batteries don't really have a memory effect. There is a far less noticeable effect called voltage depletion, but it can be offset by completely discharging the battery once in a while. That's why high-end chargers have a re-conditioning cycle. So Vicki, let those suckers go dead.

I have a C9000 charger, and I use the conditioning cycle once every month or so. I don't think I can always get every battery totally drained, so I hope the C9000 is making up for that.

 

[Stu]

If you switch batteries before one is drained, you can always hit the discharge button on the charger (assuming it has one) when you charge it. That way it gets discharged completely before recharging.

I just use the charger that came with the unit, so no it doesn't have a discharge feature. How important is it to occasionally fully discharge and/or condition a battery? Will this have a substantial impact on the life of the battery? I mean I'd rather not have to buy one of these special chargers if I don't have to, but if it will save me money in the long run, I guess I would make the purchase.

 

[OC513]

If you switch batteries before one is drained, you can always hit the discharge button on the charger (assuming it has one) when you charge it. That way it gets discharged completely before recharging.

I just use the charger that came with the unit, so no it doesn't have a discharge feature. How important is it to occasionally fully discharge and/or condition a battery? Will this have a substantial impact on the life of the battery? I mean I'd rather not have to buy one of these special chargers if I don't have to, but if it will save me money in the long run, I guess I would make the purchase.

You dont have to.....the regular charger will do an adequate job. High end chargers are not necessary but they will save you money in the long run.....how long depends on how often you use the box and charge your batteries. The higher end chargers will also make sure your batts are running optimally at all times. If you use AA or AAA batteries in other things around the house i.e. remotes, wireless mouse/keyboard, flashlights etc. the high end chargers are worth the investment imo.

 

[Stu]

You dont have to.....the regular charger will do an adequate job. High end chargers are not necessary but they will save you money in the long run.....how long depends on how often you use the box and charge your batteries. The higher end chargers will also make sure your batts are running optimally at all times. If you use AA or AAA batteries in other things around the house i.e. remotes, wireless mouse/keyboard, flashlights etc. the high end chargers are worth the investment imo.

I have been using my LB daily since I got it about 2 months ago. My EQ has been collecting dust as I continue to play around with my LB . I would say I've been using and charging 2 batteries per day (I have 4 stock batteries in my current rotation). I have yet to notice any discernible degradation of any of my bats to this point. How long should I expect them to perform if I only use the stock charger with no conditioning ability? I apologize if this has already been addressed, but I don't recall reading the typical lifespan of the stock bats.

Cheers!

 

[OC513]

You dont have to.....the regular charger will do an adequate job. High end chargers are not necessary but they will save you money in the long run.....how long depends on how often you use the box and charge your batteries. The higher end chargers will also make sure your batts are running optimally at all times. If you use AA or AAA batteries in other things around the house i.e. remotes, wireless mouse/keyboard, flashlights etc. the high end chargers are worth the investment imo.

I have been using my LB daily since I got it about 2 months ago. My EQ has been collecting dust as I continue to play around with my LB . I would say I've been using and charging 2 batteries per day (I have 4 stock batteries in my current rotation). I have yet to notice any discernible degradation of any of my bats to this point. How long should I expect them to perform if I only use the stock charger with no conditioning ability? I apologize if this has already been addressed, but I don't recall reading the typical lifespan of the stock bats.

Cheers!

Most LSD batteries are capable of up to 1000 charges......the newer ones are claiming 1500 charges. Of course this means under optimal conditions. How much depletion from that number you get with lesser chargers or quick chargers I have no idea. At about $3 a battery it may not be a big deal to some. In some peoples case it might just come down to convenience. One of the main reasons I got a 'smart' charger was so I could actually see (on a digital readout) when my batteries are starting to drop off, when they are charged optimally, when they need a refresh cycle and when they need to be discarded......cutting out the guesswork was worth it to me. I have LSD batteries that are 2100 mAh & 2400 mAh and some HSD batteries that are 2700mAh so I run them all at different levels in my C9000. This may not be absolutely necessary but I am one of those people that must know things are being done optimally and I dont like guesswork......unless I am playing poker

 

[Vicki]

One of the main reasons I got a 'smart' charger was so I could actually see (on a digital readout) when my batteries are starting to drop off, when they are charged optimally, when they need a refresh cycle and when they need to be discarded......cutting out the guesswork was worth it to me.

That was the main reason I bought the C9000. I know exactly where my battery life stands after a break-in cycle. I just finished conditioning 4-2400MAH batteries this afternoon. They all had close to 2300 at the end.

 

[2Supra4U]

nothing really.....its just that it takes liek 8 or 9 hours to charge

This is not correct. The current charger shipped with the LB takes about 2-4 hours depending on the state of the batteries.

You don't need a bunch of charged batteries unless you're doing a bunch of trenches. I get about two trenches out of a battery and one trench is usually enough to last an evening. I often stretch a trench out over two days but my wife and I switch to the Extreme most evenings.

Anyone with a phobia about getting caught without a charged battery can always get a fast charger and take the shorter battery life penalty--but you will have a charged battery in 15 minutes.

my bad i was just basing my statement on that it was 8 or 9 hours originally. I forgot that they have swiched chargers that come with it.

were both right

 

[OC513]

One of the main reasons I got a 'smart' charger was so I could actually see (on a digital readout) when my batteries are starting to drop off, when they are charged optimally, when they need a refresh cycle and when they need to be discarded......cutting out the guesswork was worth it to me.

That was the main reason I bought the C9000. I know exactly where my battery life stands after a break-in cycle. I just finished conditioning 4-2400MAH batteries this afternoon. They all had close to 2300 at the end.

Exactly....without this information I would drive myself crazy wondering.

 

[Skinny_j]

Well took the first flight with the magic flight box and......... this thing is awesome!!! I've been using and fixing my iolite for the last 6 months and came to the conclusion that it is a neat idea but i found it to be unreliable and noisy/smelly. the flight box is absolutely silent and smells much less. and from what I've read they are much more reliable, and if they arent they have a kick ass warranty!!

 

[pakalolo]

I have been using my LB daily since I got it about 2 months ago. My EQ has been collecting dust as I continue to play around with my LB . I would say I've been using and charging 2 batteries per day (I have 4 stock batteries in my current rotation). I have yet to notice any discernible degradation of any of my bats to this point. How long should I expect them to perform if I only use the stock charger with no conditioning ability? I apologize if this has already been addressed, but I don't recall reading the typical lifespan of the stock bats.

Cheers!

This is just my opinion, not based on anything but reading on the web, but I'd say that unless you are doing frequent 15-minute charges then the difference isn't worth getting excited about. If you use the stock charger, just discharge them completely once in a while. The Maha C-9000 instructions recommend re-conditioning after every ten charges, but I don't bother keeping track. I have four Powerex batteries and I try to do a conditioning cycle on Sundays, alternating two pairs so each gets a cycle every two weeks. At my usage level I think that's frequent enough. I also have four Imedions that I keep charged for backup, but seldom use any more. I can't remember the last time I re-conditioned those.

BTW although the Powerex batteries are rated at 2700 mAh, mine have never finished higher then 2500 mAh on the C-9000. The Imedions are rated at 2400 mAh and also wind up at a lower capacity, although at the moment I don't recall specifically what the number is (around 2200 I think). Not that I care, since both types perform well, with Powerex being best of all the different batteries I have tried (Powerex, Imedion, Energizer, and Eneloop).

 

[Stu]

Thanks for the input, Pakalolo. I've been manually discharging my stock batteries about once a week. I just dump the ABV after a trench and then hold the battery in for a few minutes until it is almost too hot to touch. I'm not sure if this is more harmful or helpful, but it hasn't seemed to cause any problems to this point. I think I'll just stick with my stock setup for now and when I notice some battery degredation I will cross that bridge when I come to it.

Again, thanks for your thoughts.

 

[fuckyourcouch]

My magic flight box has been really fuckin pissing me off lately. it seems like this one battery is deffective and always runs out early and my batteries seem to die really quick. also i have to twist the battery difference directions for the light to light up. i also sometimes have to press really hard for it to turn on. i almost feel like my box is defecting on me.