The Magic-Flight Box

[eaudevie]

Whew!! I just read allllll the pages, damn. Great stuff. I am on the edge of my seat, waiting for my little bundle of joy. Tomorrow? Hopefully. I will update soon.

 

[ceitus]

I've had my launch box for about a week now and I must say I was sceptical about it first, let's say it doesn't look like the most modern piece of vaping equipment . But I have come to conclude that this machine is very reliable, useable, vaporizerable and extremely likeable .

I recommended this device to all my friends..

thanks for making such a product.

 

[sundaddy]

Yes, it's easy to fall in love with this beauty. It's kinda like a DVR. At first you're like, OK, what is this "thing" but after a week of use, you would not want to live without it. I had an Iolite and I sold it. I also had a Vapor Genie, but please.....really? That thing hasn't seen the light of day since I got my LB.

 

[eaudevie]

Christmas came today in a gorgeous little box today. I ordered my box on Wed. morning and just got it at 2:00pm on Friday. (Priority mail from Vapeworld . Represent.) All pieces accounted for. My own 2500mAh's charged, peeled, and ready for duty ( While I fully charged the ones that came with my box).
From Monday, this week once I found this jewel as an option, I could not wait ,watching videos, combing Fuck Combustion, various other web sites, reviews,pictures, and the like. I felt I was also ready for Battle. OK, lets do this. My first 3/4 trench and "To the moon Alice" is all I can say. Vaping IS different, I get it, or so I thought I did. I am in love. What a great deliverer of Rx. Definitely the best I have found yet. I would like to Thank all involved in this week long journey. I thought it seemed longer, but in reality, No.. Vapeworld for the discount and grinder, Fuck Combustion for the plethora of information, to all of the wonderful people on here for your banter, candor and encouragement, and to the star of he show, my new best friend, my little box of love, The Launch Box (32xxxx) For I am a 100% a new fanboy and advocate. I wish Magic Flight a "Magic flight"of their own. What a great little start up spreading cheer to us all.
(Raise your glasses) I wish Magic flight a long and prosperous journey. I tip my hat and clink my glass.
<3 ? ? ?

 

[No Smoking!]

how sad...

Modnote:

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Don't make short posts that offer no significant content, or post for the sake of increasing your post count.

 

[GreenLeaf]

I vaped a tiny bit of plant material, just got two hits, out of my box and I was amazed at how high I got and I prefer vaping to smoking since there's not as much body load, cottonmouth, or a huge void for the munchies like you get from smoking. I also found there to be way less anxiety than what I'd get from smoking and smoking again after 5 years.

IME vaping it is way more cerebral and can be sort of psychedelic if you let it become that way.

I did not use the plastic tube that came with the box as inhaling through the wooden drilled hole was fine.

I also turned on a friend to this model of vaporizer since he had a vape, but he let a friend borrow it and they never gave it back.

Is it easy to tell if you have duff or vaped plant material or not? I know the directions say to gently tap and shake the box after vaping but I did that and the material did not move so I used the brush to move it, is this duff or stuff I can get one more vape hit out of?

 

[momofthegoons]

Is it easy to tell if you have duff or vaped plant material or not? I know the directions say to gently tap and shake the box after vaping but I did that and the material did not move so I used the brush to move it, is this duff or stuff I can get one more vape hit out of?

It appears that you may not be shaking the box after each hit. That might be why the material is "fused" into place.

When your material has turned to duff, it will no longer be green; rather a dark brown color, but not black. It shouldn't taste as good anymore and your vapor will taste more like smoke or burnt popcorn.

 

[steven22]

Alright, been using my LB for a few days...

its great, does the job.... but the high using the same herb is definitely different from what my extreme vape gives me.. and Im a strict vaporizer only guy...so there isnt any combustion in my routine to sway my opinions.

which brings me to my next inquiries..... on my extreme , I vape from 170-225 C , depending on herb, and what kind of bags i want, how efficient im feeling..etc

What range does the LB offer in temps?...

---

I was the one that complained about my AVB NOT being uniform in color with my LB, I said that half of it gets black while the other half is still green

I fixed this by further grinding my herb with my fingers after its gone through 2 hits. and making a nice poweder out of it. and then shaking herbs real well after each hit.... now everything is uniform

but seriously, how many seconds with the battery in brings it to combustion temps?... its the one of two things im worried about... I feel that I may be combustion because of the different kind of highs im getting, with the LB. I get a more couch lock high, that I used to get with pipes... and accompanies with a slight headache or lethargy, that I also get from pipes. same herb, in my extreme at 180C has none of the effects.

could that be due to combustion?..

Or is it due to me inhaling some byproduct of heated metals?...leading me to react differently.
-----

if my weed turns black, it means im combusting right?

 

[momofthegoons]

Yes, if your weed turns black, it's definitely combusting. Your vapor will taste more burnt when vaping at the higher temp. I don't believe it's a byproduct of the metal. I usually do a slow 8 count before I hit the first time, while watching the stem for vapor. Then I sort of draw, pause, draw, pause until my hit is done to assure air flow and reduce the risk of combusting. If I leave the battery in for longer than an 8 - 10 count, the LB starts heating too much and that's when there's a risk of combusting. And I have noticed that the hotter I let it get, the more of a couch lock high I get, which makes sense.

 

[magicflight]

... I also turned on a friend to this model of vaporizer since he had a vape, but he let a friend borrow it and they never gave it back.

Hi,

Your "friend" basically gave away your vape? That does not sound right at all. A friend is someone who respects your interests and supports your well being. Did you request some sort of restitution? Did he ever make amends for the breech of your trust?

-- Magic-Flight

 

[vap999]

What range does the LB offer in temps?...

---

Since it is a conduction vaporizer, the material in contact with the heated metal screen will get the hottest, with everything else, including the majority of hebal material heated to lower temperatures, if at all. The herbal material not directly in contact with the heated screen would only secondarily or indirectly be heated by: conduction of heat through the herbal material (poor, not much), a little bit of convection (screen-heated air passing through the herbal material), and radiation/heat reflection. Thus, you are actually vaping at a variety of temperatures, ranging from the temperature in contact with the heated screen (which should be below combustion) and lower.

In fact, maybe Magic Flight could tell us, but a significant portion of what's inhaled may actually be driven off at lower than heated-screen temperatures. Anyways, on average, what you inhale from a conduction vaporizer is probably driven off at a lower temperature than using a convection vaporizer. Thus, the mix of essential oils, aromatics, active agents, etc. inhaled will be different.

So, while your Extreme and other convection vaporizers deliver rather consistent heat (heated air) to the herbal material, the Launch Box and other conduction vaporizers inherently delivery a range of temperatures throughout the herbal material.

 

[GreenLeaf]

Is it easy to tell if you have duff or vaped plant material or not? I know the directions say to gently tap and shake the box after vaping but I did that and the material did not move so I used the brush to move it, is this duff or stuff I can get one more vape hit out of?

It appears that you may not be shaking the box after each hit. That might be why the material is "fused" into place.

When your material has turned to duff, it will no longer be green; rather a dark brown color, but not black. It shouldn't taste as good anymore and your vapor will taste more like smoke or burnt popcorn.

OK thanks.

I did not put a lot of plant material in, just enough to barely cover the bottom of the trench and it turned brownish after 2 hits but not dark brown.

 

[GreenLeaf]

... I also turned on a friend to this model of vaporizer since he had a vape, but he let a friend borrow it and they never gave it back.

Hi,

Your "friend" basically gave away your vape? That does not sound right at all. A friend is someone who respects your interests and supports your well being. Did you request some sort of restitution? Did he ever make amends for the breech of your trust?

-- Magic-Flight

I never owned a vape before getting the magic flight box.

I was telling a friend about the magic flight box last night and this person (who is not me) decided to buy one since they once had a vape but then let someone that they know borrow and that person never gave it back.

 

[steven22]

I see, Ok... so pretty much keep my total "battery IN" time under 10 seconds and I should be golden?.... not worry about combusting?

 

[momofthegoons]

I'm sorry, maybe I wasn't clear. I put the battery in and wait 8 counts before I start hitting. When I am finished hitting, I take the battery out. Way longer than 10 sec. As long as you are drawing air through the LB, it should cool the herb enough to not combust. It's when you draw too slow or leave the battery in when not drawing that it heats up enough to combust.

Not shaking between hits will also blacken the edges of your herb.

Hope that makes it more clear.

 

[MagicMists]

I feel that I may be combustion because of the different kind of highs im getting, with the LB. I get a more couch lock high, that I used to get with pipes... and accompanies with a slight headache or lethargy, that I also get from pipes. same herb, in my extreme at 180C has none of the effects.

Steven, I also use the Extreme as well as the LB. 180C is on the lower end of the temp ranges you're using with the Extreme. I would suggest that to match that with the LB you make your inhales/pulls stronger. Remember that more air passing through the LB trench will result in cooler/lower temp hits. Higher temp hits tend towards more couch lock. It seems counter intuitive since most other inhalation methods work in the reverse, stronger inhale = more intense results. You may have noticed that the lower temp/more air hits will not show you much in the way of visible vape clouds with the LB but if you exhale towards a bright light you should be able to see some. Even if you don't you can still probably taste it and if you wait 5 or 10 minutes you'll know for sure if you've achieved the results you're after.

 

[magicflight]

... on my extreme, I vape from 170-225 C ...

Hi,

As a general note: for most, if not all digital vaporizers, the temperature listed on the display is very unlikely to be the actual temperature at, on, or within the loaded herbs. In regards to vaporization, the critical metric is the temperature at the surface of the herb. Since the specific heat of air is extremely low, measuring the temperature even a few cm away can easily result in differences as much as 50 deg C. To really know how hot the herb is getting in the microscopic spaces on and in between the ground particles generally requires either a very small thermocouple or infrared optical techniques and very careful procedure.

In regards to the Extreme, we actually purchased one of these units recently and explicitly tested to see how accurate the readout was in our Lab. The working parts of an Extreme consists of a heating unit base which has a ground glass coupling to a glass herb chamber. We know from physical inspection that whatever is used as a temperature measurement device *must* be in the base itself -- not in the herb chamber -- because there is no wire or optical path from the herb chamber back to the base. We therefore tested in two stages: 1) measuring the actual temperature immediately where the hot air stream exits the heating unit base and comparing that with value on the digital display, and 2) measuring the temperature immediately at the loaded herbs.

In regards to our methodology, we would assemble and place a K type thermocouples into the various measurement positions, turn the unit on, set it to the desired temperature and air flow rate, and then wait 15 minutes for the unit to fully and completely equalize thermally. Each time we experimented with a different temperature or fan setting, we would again wait an additional 15 minutes for equalization. It is therefore very certain that the results obtained are accurate and reflecting the real "best possible case" operating conditions in the Extreme system.

It is our observation, as a direct result of these experiments, that real temperature emitted by the Extreme heating unit is generally about 30 deg C cooler than the indicated Extreme readout, and that the temperature at the herb itself (another few cm farther away along the air path) is another 30 deg C or so cooler than that. Further, given that the ground glass parts have a relatively high thermal mass and that
most users are only likely to wait 2 to 5 minutes before using, the actual temperature at the loaded herbs is very likely to be even lower than would be expected from looking at the Extreme digital readout -- at least 50 deg C and likely as much as 100 deg C cooler. Furthermore, while the digital display and the internal heat within the unit itself are fairly responsive to requested changes in the temp setting, coming into stability within 15 or seconds, the actual rate of temperature change at the loaded herb takes MUCH longer -- at least 2 minutes later.

However, it is important to note that these systematic differences in temperature are not due to any particular failing of the Extreme system -- it is an inherently difficult problem, having to do with the bare physics of devices of this type. For example, even if the hot air path to the herb were completely insulated, the temperature loss would still be very significant -- at least 60 deg C. (We tried this also). Altering the system further so as to measure the real temperature at the herb definitely helps, yet even that is not a real solution since now the real thermal mass effects are fully evident and the overall system performance is glacially slow -- taking dozens of minutes to respond to adjustments. This pattern is evident, for example, with the Purple Days device where it is expected that it will take a *long* time for operating temperature to be reached, and once there, for the device to be left operating more or less indefinitely so as to be ready whenever it is needed.

As such, if you are expecting a realistic answer of how the operating temperature of LB compares to that of the Extreme, you need to be aware that the "indicated temp" display is of very little relevance in regards to the actual operating vaporization conditions of the device. In terms of real temperatures, the Extreme *does* implement real vaporization -- it just does so at a generally overall lower temperature than is indicated on the display -- usually at least 50 deg C cooler, and perhaps sometimes as much as 100 deg C cooler, depending on timing, ambient conditions and settings.

Really, the discriminating vaporizer purchaser needs to understand that the presence of a "digital display" is much more significant from a marketing and sales point of view than it is from a user/functional one. It is the connotation of "digital displays are more accurate/precise" that makes units sell, not the actual real functional performance or correctness -- something much harder to measure and understand. For vaporizers, as with most home appliances, "good enough" really is enough for most people -- everything else is a sales tactic.

What range does the LB offer in temps?...

The full range of temperatures, inclusive of all possible operating conditions, intended or accidental, available to the LB is anywhere from ambient to full combustion at 233 deg C. Note that hereafter in this post, we will be referring to real temperatures actually measurable at the real/true surface of the herb. The typical operating temperature of the LB while in use tends to center at about 200 deg C -- this is the ideal. Accessible/common usage technique can easily allow for anything in the range of 165 to 210 C.

Basically, under nearly all conditions, the LB operates significantly hotter than the Extreme. This accounts in large part for your observed differences in the experience. Different medicinally active aspects will volatilize at different temperatures. At higher temperatures, relatively more of the heavier aspects will be evident in the overall experience.

To get an experience with the LB that is more similar to that of the Extreme, you would need to increase your typical draw rate about 15 to 20%, and be very sure that the battery is not left in the LB for more than 2 seconds before or after the draw.

The one thing that is most important to understand is that the LB is designed to be about 100 times more responsive to user demand changes than the Extreme. Its not about accuracy so much as it is about immediate user feedback -- responsiveness. In other words, the actual herb vaporization conditions within LB can be changed very much more quickly than in the Extreme, making any true "apples to apples" comparison between these units very unlikely.

... how many seconds with the battery in brings it to combustion temps?

Depending on the specific load (how dry it is, how finely ground, etc), the specific calibration of the particular LB unit and assuming zero draw rate conditions, actual ignition conditions *might* be achieved in as little as 30 seconds. For most units shipped under most conditions, the time will be noticeably longer.

... one of two things im worried about: could the differences in experience be due to combustion? ... or is it due to me inhaling some byproduct of heated metals?

Neither -- the differences are due to differences in the vaporization temperature. The LB generally operates hotter, somewhat nearer to combustion than the Extreme under most conditions, and this leads to more/different psychoactive volatiles being released, leading to a different experience. For many people, this is a good thing, as those other ingredients tend to have more of the pain-relieving effects sought after by many medical users.

If my weed turns black, it means im combusting right?

Not necessarily -- "combustion" generally implies a self-sustained oxidization reaction, whereas "blackening" merely indicates that a number of the more complex molecules have been broken down -- "reduced" to carbon. For example, it is possible to blacken nearly any organic materials in the complete absence of oxygen -- a clear distinction/demonstration that combustion is definitely not required for blacking -- ie, the terms/events are identifiably distinct. You will know for sure when combustion occurs because it always results in ash -- generally a gray powdery residue.

However, blackening is not really that desirable either, for it indicates that at least potentially some of the medicinal ingredients have been overheated, reducing them to less useful compounds -- ie that less than optimal efficiency has been obtained. Usually, it is recommended that frequent stirring between hits be used to prevent blackening, particularly as it improves the overall taste.

-- Magic-Flight

 

[steven22]

I'm sorry, maybe I wasn't clear. I put the battery in and wait 8 counts before I start hitting. When I am finished hitting, I take the battery out. Way longer than 10 sec. As long as you are drawing air through the LB, it should cool the herb enough to not combust. It's when you draw too slow or leave the battery in when not drawing that it heats up enough to combust.

Not shaking between hits will also blacken the edges of your herb.

Hope that makes it more clear.

oh wow... I never let it sit more than 3 seconds without drawing on it... it immediately starts to send vapor out the stem in 1-3 seconds. I never tried it but, id imagine 8-10 seconds without drawing would definitely burn it right?

does your unit also send out vapors in few seconds like mine?


---

I can draw as long as I want with the battery in and it shouldnt combust right?... as long as there is air going through.

 

[MagicMists]

Magic-Flight,

Thank you for such a thorough, intelligent and educational response! Your understanding of, interest in and ability to communicate the actual science behind this beloved vape (and other vapes) without an agenda of making other people wrong is greatly appreciated. You seem to live the message that is inscribed on each LB. I always look forward to your posts!!!

 

[momofthegoons]

steven22, how long I wait depends on how fresh my batteries are. If they've just been charged, it's faster. I just got out my LB to double check how long it took and a 6 count had vapor coming out of the stem. And yes, as long as you are drawing, the herb should not combust. According to Magic Flights's post above, I was incorrect in saying that if your herb is blackened that you have combusted. But, you have been vaping at a higher temp and for me, is not as desirable.

I've got to add that how high I am sometimes depends a lot on how much vapor I perceive I have inhaled. I find using a light and blowing into it, not directly into it, but sort of under it so that you can see the vapor exhaled really helps. I know it's in my mind and when I can't see the vapor, I'm getting as much, but there's something about actually seeing it that makes me feel I'm really getting all I can. Especially with the LB. Silly, I know. I find a desk lamp or reading lamp works the best.

 

[steven22]

hell of a post magic flight!!!

--

that bit about the blackening not being combustion, thats good to hear... but is there any tar or carcinogen in the vapor released by herb that went through temperatures high enough to blacken the herb as opposed to herb that was vaporized at lower temps.

 

[Progress]

MagicFlight,

Did you place the cyclone bowl on the E during the 15 min conditioning period or place it on at the beginning of the test (50 to 100 degrees C below what my screen shows would put my vaping in a unrealistically low range)?

I agree that the MFLB has the ability to go from ambient to combustion and can be controlled exactly with care and understanding of its performance, some coordination, and breath control.

Interesting post.

 

[TokinViet]

I can't say enough about this little thing. I've I've let all of my friends take a few hits off it, and they LOVE it. It's so portable, discreet, and gosh darn effective

But recently I've been having trouble with it. I don't think the screen is heating properly. I have tried to charge multiple fresh batteries and it doesn't want to heat up. It is barely warm to the touch. I have made sure that the contacts are connecting properly, what should i do? Is the warranty effective in this case?

 

[momofthegoons]

Magic Flight's warranty is an unsurpassed lifetime warranty. You should email them directly.

 

[magicflight]

hell of a post magic flight!!!

Thank you. It means more to us when we know it means more to you. Enthusiasm is even more when it is truly shared. It makes spending time writing about such matters even more enjoyable.

--

... about blackening ... is there any tar or carcinogen in the vapor released by herb that went through temperatures high enough to blacken the herb as opposed to herb that was vaporized at lower temps.

This is a good question, and hard to answer without more specific research. It is my understanding, based as much on intuition and indirect reading as on anything I have myself seen measured directly, that the chances of such are significant -- that there are more likely to be more tars, if not also some level of increased chance of more harmful compounds released if any herbal material is heated to the point of significant blackening. However, the real question is "does it matter" -- ie, is this increased chance significant enough to be concerned about?

To make this more explicit, it would be necessary to much more specific about what constitutes a "tar" and would be considered potentially harmful to health. For example, the presence of vaporized THC itself could by most professional (chemical) definitions be classified as a 'tar', and some people (more politically motivated) would also list it as "harmful to health", although most people (hopefully) know better. Thus, it becomes a matter of which polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons and associated isomers are likely to occur and in what proportions as a result of any given level of overheating. As such, the overall question gets very complex very fast and admits of no simple interpretation other than the fairly obvious "significant overheating of herbal materials is generally bad".

As such, the best I can realistically offer at this point is my unjustified opinion: As long as you do not heat herbs beyond the point at which more than about 15% of the load becomes more dark than dark chocolate brown, there is no cause or justification for worry. Beyond this, it is *probably* the case that even heating about 1/4 of a load nearly full black will have no detectable long term health effects as long as you are not doing so multiple times every single day for weeks at a time. It is also certain that even if you were to vaporize to these far limits, it is overall significantly less harmful than any type of smoking, including and especially that involving any amount of water filtration.

Furthermore and finally, as many people on this forum are likely to already know, hundreds of politically minded groups have pressured many more scientists to find and publish ant possible research supporting any connection whatsoever between smoking various popular herbs and any measurable/functional health defect or decline. Given such consistent efforts over the last several decades, the failure of any one of these very motivated and well funded groups to widely and dramatically publish any significant or well justified evidence, I think that it is safe to assume/believe that no such connection exists. Therefore, for anyone here to spend any amount of time worrying about the possibility of harmful effects associated with occasionally somewhat overheating some 120 milligrams (max) of herb, given all of this, is probably unnecessary -- with a LB vaporizer you are probably as safe as it is possible to be.

Again, I hope that this is helpful.
-- Magic-Flight